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Barack Obama
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Gets my vote. For SO many reasons.
For those that want to share, who do you want?
Posted at 9:02PM, 31 January 2008 PDT
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(1201 to 1300 of 1,790 replies in Barack Obama)
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A lovely little story: www.zenmoments.org/the-kindness-of-a-stranger/
Posted 9 months ago.
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Oh, Gayle. That just made my morning. Thank you! :)
Posted 9 months ago.
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Who You Calin' a Maverick? - The Maverick family's reaction to John McCain.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Behind the scenes with Barack. (spoof)
Posted 9 months ago.
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Ha! That guy is fantastic! Who is he? Why doesn't SNL hire him?
Posted 9 months ago.
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William F. Buckley's son is voting for Obama - and here's why: www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-10-10/the-co...
Edited for the correct link instead of someone's e-mail. Trying to do too much at work before next week off.
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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samatwitch edited this topic 9 months ago.
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Really enjoyed that article ESG!
Posted 9 months ago.
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Have liked all the links here.
Interesting day. McCain having to back off his character attacks and even gaining boos from his supporters, because of the viciousness of his supporters' shouts.
And Palin is guilty in troopergate.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Wow, I don't watch tv for a few hours and turn on Countdown and see all this stuff about McCain actually defending Obama and being booed and also see that Palin is found guilty in the troopergate scandal.
My thoughts on this whole thing with McCain is that at one time he was a very honorable, moral person and he has let his desire to be president overtake his desire to be a decent, good person. When all these reports and footage of his supporters yelling things like "kill him", "Terrorist!" and "Arab" started becoming the norm I think it has scared him that he knows this isn't right and he is the cause of it. I saw his face when one of his supporters, fighting back his emotions was talking about his wife getting ready to give birth and how fearful he is of Obama becoming president. McCain knows that Obama is not the monster they've made him out to be and I think he genuinely was surprised how fired up and gullible some of these people are. He looked kind of ashamed to me and like he wanted to attempt to make it right. I hope I'm not reading him wrong because at one time I really admired this man and would have voted for him way back when he ran against Bush. The truth will be in the next few days if they suddenly stop pushing this angle.
I would like to believe that there still is the decent, honorable man still inside John McCain. I'd like to be able to respect him again. And I hope this isn't in response to his poll numbers continuing to drop.
I'm also so disgusted at some of the footage they showed when they were interviewing his supporters outside a rally and some of the things they were saying. Racism sadly is still very strong in some parts of this country and the Republicans trying to fire up those supporters is just so disturbingly disgusting to me. I am fearful for Obama because of some of the things people were shouting.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Just wanted to add that I just had a chance to read the other links you guys posted and really enjoyed them, especially that story of Obama at the airport. I could so picture him doing something like that.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Enjoying the links, too. That guy playing Obama really should be on SNL, and I loved the airport story.
I had the same feeling FF, looking at McCain at that rally I felt like he was really horrified at what he had wrought. A lot of commentators are saying that it's just cynicism -- him wanting to come off as taking the high ground while his surrogates do the dirty work, but his reaction read pretty sincere to me. As you say, the next few days will tell.
Posted 9 months ago.
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I read an article in the NY times a month or so ago... I can't remember exactly when, and it was in the paper version so I don't know if it would be on-line... basically talking about John McCain's capacity for shame. Did anybody else see that? It was discussing the fact that perhaps more than any other politician, he's kind of trashed himself, been really, deeply self-critical. (Worth noting that the main source of the recent Rolling Stone article doing a harsh number on his character was... John McCain, in his own words and writings). After the 2000 primaries, he did the unusual thing of admitting he'd gone against his principles (by not being truthful about how abhorrent he found the confederate flag) and said he was ashamed of himself.
It does seem to me that once again, he's kind of thrown his principles overboard in order to win (yet another "the end justifies the means" kind of politician, and most of them are, no?) but he's losing anyway and is having to face the very ugly result of the kind of pandering they've been doing. He's not an ignorant man and he's not a racist, and I'm glad to see him trying to shut down ignorance and racism in his supporters. I'm sure there is a self-serving element there too... the election is probably lost, but at least he can try to save his reputation at this point. But I do basically agree with FireflyFlanatic, I don't think John McCain is a bad guy, and all politicians and their crappy ads are disingenuous (Obama included), but he crossed a line somewhere back there and I think he's ashamed of where it's taken him.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Has anyone heard from Willowy lately? It's been awhile, worried about her.
Posted 9 months ago.
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So why does McCain keep doing things for which he is so remorseful later? And what would that mean to us if he were elected president? I mean, Bush is remains unremorseful about the damage he has done to the country, but would his saying he's sorry really help anything? I agree that there was some sincerity to McCain's comments, but, after all, he helped foment the supporter anger that got out of control. And he had to have known what would happen if he played on people's fears as he has done, particularly when everybody is terrified about basic needs. That worry brings out primal behavior in anybody. If this turn is to salvage his reputation, then that is just more self-serving behavior -- even if the end result is beneficial. I guess I'm less charitable than you guys, but I to become the guy in the white hat after the sleazy and cynical things he has done during the last few months is too little, too late.
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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palehorse edited this topic 9 months ago.
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palehouse, no party will ever forefill your needs, you must look upon that on your own. I'm sorry, but that's the truth.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Oh, I agree with you, palehorse. I guess the question was just "Is he sincere?" and I think he is, and I'm glad he said what absolutely needed to be said. But sure, there is a "so what?" element to that, too. We can all be sorry later. And you're right, of course, that somebody who acts rashly or irresponsibly and then feels bad is not, ahem, what we want in a president.
I don't know if anyone other than me likes these two, but here's another debate analysis. Usually I agree with Glenn Loury in spite of my ever-growing crush on John McWhorter, but here I've got to say... well, he's very well-informed and smart and I still agree with the "essence," maybe, of a lot of what he says, but he clearly has a bee in his bonnet over Obama that's informing everything he says and he kind of lost me this time round, especially when he accuses John McWhorter of "demonizing" McCain, which was a rather silly and entirely unfair misinterpretation of what he was saying. I also find the dynamic between them interesting. It might just be me, but I think John McWhorter is more deferential / respectful of Glenn Loury than the other way around... I wonder if that's an age thing. Should anyone be interested, voila:
bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/15048
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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catherine_31 edited this topic 9 months ago.
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Hey, Maddy, neither party is perfect, and I'll admit it's easy here to do some armchair quarterbacking, but I tend to vote for Democrats all the time, unless some crook or miscreant represents the party on the ballot on the local level. (I did vote for John Anderson in 1980 as a protest vote against Reagan and Carter, with the latter having become so weak as a president he was taking down the party.) There is very little on the Republican platform in the last 30-odd years that I can support. I am opposed to the way religion has been used as a litmus test for candidates for public office (not opposed to religion per se, just the way organized religion has insinuated itself into politics), I have a very long history of being outspoken in support of women's rights, including choice, I have an equally long history of being opposed to discrimination based upon sexual preference or race, and I have been a volunteer and financial supporter of grass-roots community organizations. None of those positions is popular within the Republican party. As I work in the arts and humanities (after having worked in radiation therapy and radiation dosimetry, based on an early interest in mathematics and physics) as an educator, I have also been opposed to Republican efforts to silence the arts and to pervert education (in the teaching of creationism, etc.). I love the racial and class diversity of the Democratic party. So, nothing is perfect, but the Democratic party has been my party for many years.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Palehorse, I can totally understand where you are coming from. For me, that moment when the supporter put his question to McCain it looked like he was genuinely torn in his response and felt remorseful. That said, it still angers me so much how he has behaved in this election. The anger I saw in some of these McCain supporters responses was downright scary and I genuinely fear for Obama's life if one of thes nutjobs takes their hate to a new level. McCain does keep doing these things, has even admitted in one of his books about lying about the confederate flag to gain votes and regretted it. To me, yes, there may be a decent man underneath but he lets his desires for what he wants overcome his decency and that is not someone we want as president.
I can have compassion for the person when he shows a glimpse of that decency but I can't forget or forgive the fact that he can bury his morals to try and win an election while trying to tear down a decent American and try to label him a terrorist and "not one of us".
I have heard these ads are still running and if McCain really wanted to put a stop to it he'd be dropping this line of attacks. You can't have it both ways. He now needs to prove he meant what he said and if these ads continue to run he truly is showing his true self.
McCain is trying to be above the attacks but how can he be if his "I approve this message" is tagged at the end of these attacks and his own wife and running mate continue to run this message.
I saw that footage last night and he seemed remorseful to me. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was sincere. I like to see the good in people but when the attack ads still continued to run today it makes me feel like he really wasn't being genuine.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Hun? Think you had the wrong understanding, palehorse. I agree with many of your beliefs, like you, just trying to make sense of it all.
However, like you, I must question. Is that still allowed?
Posted 9 months ago.
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Sorry if I misunderstood you, Maddy. I took you to mean that there wasn't a party that I would ever find to fulfill my needs politically, and I just tried to answer that, yes, indeed, the Democrats do so for me, as much as any political party could.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Ah, it's okay, my friend. Just speaking your heart. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, you should do it more!
Posted 9 months ago.
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I agree with palehorse on questioning the purpose and moral character of Mccain's recent statements telling people to tone it down at his rallies. The timing of his sudden turnaround is suspect. And considering his scary ads are still running it's not all that much of a turnaround. I'm glad he said what he said and hope he keeps it up. But what does all this really mean? That McCain is after all "a good guy?" How about a terribly, terribly mixed bag guy?
The nastiness went on for what - four, five, six? - days and McCain did and said nothing. To allow that kind of ugliness to fester and build for that period of time shows the measure of a person. There was zero nobility in that behavior. Zero. Nada. None. People excuse him for, what, suppressing his inner nobility until his wonderful conscience couldn't take it anymore and he burst out with his wondrous inner "real" nobility? Wow, what a moral giant he is. (Deadly sarcasm.)
But to get back to my chronology: McCain allows the hate to build for several days. Says nothing, I guess because he was all nobly suffering in silence. Poor, noble McCain. Or, hey, maybe it was because he and his campaign have seen the research that negative campaigning works? And look how enthused his and Palin's crowds were getting!
But then, lo and behold, a poll comes out (from Fox) on Friday that all the negativity about Ayers is hurting, not helping, McCain. Add to those poll numbers some heavy-hitting Republicans coming forward and castigating the McCain campaign for race-baiting and violence-baiting.
The hate rallying was turning into a PR and looming electoral disaster for McCain. Only when *that* becomes apparent does he attempt a (partial) corrective. Look, I'm not a crazily partisan person who thinks McCain is the devil incarnate. I believe he has his good sides. But I'm starting to seriously rebel against the "he's a noble man who's lost his way and been undermined by evil people in his camp; at heart he doesn't *really* mean it" statements I'm reading in the press. Either the hateful stuff at his and Palin's rallies bothered him or it didn't. To my eyes, like to FFlan, it looked like it bothered him. But in both scenarios there is no nobility. If it bothered him, then the noble thing would have been to speak up immediately. Is it noble to put up with something you're against because you think it might benefit you? Arguably to do that might be worse than not realizing you're complying with the nasty in the first place. Cluelessness might actually be less ignoble than complicity.
Also, how genuine can these statements be when the ads are still running accusing Obama of being "dangerous" and consorting with terrorists? I can't believe so many members of the press have fallen for this. McCain gets some good PR from his statements and still spreads the "he's dangerous; he consorts with terrorists and 'radical organizations' [the ANNENBERG foundation??!!! They're McCain supporters and Republicans!!] " message.
To quote from a recent article by Bob Shrum: "When I heard someone in a Palin crowd yell out "traitor" as the candidate lashed out at the Democratic nominee, I thought of the full-page ad that appeared in a Dallas newspaper on the morning of Nov. 22, 1963. The headline--"Wanted for Treason"-- was sprawled across a poster-sized photo of President John F. Kennedy. You don't put country first by running this kind of campaign."
Gah. The sooner the words "noble" and "maverick" in re: John McCain can be taken out behind the woodshed and dispensed with the better.
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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phlebotinin edited this topic 9 months ago.
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"Mixed bag guy" is a nice way of putting it, phlebotinin. I haven't read anything suggesting that his obvious discomfort recently with some of the stuff his supporters have come out with is "noble," or absolving him of responsibility for the very ugly ads he has been running and is still running, but I've been a little newsed-out recently. I certainly get why that would be annoying. I think it's good that he did say something in those few instances, though. As others have said here, I used to have quite a lot of respect for John McCain, and it's depressing to watch this shit.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Thanks for reading my crazy-long post, catherine_31. I was on a rant and roll! Couldn't stop myself.
I'm not seeing many explicit references to McCain's "nobility," but I am seeing a press corps still wedded to the notion of McCain as a heroic figure, if an increasingly troubled one. We do seem to love a "fallen hero but still a hero inside" storyline. Perhaps I should have hammered on the word "decent" instead of "noble." The word "decent" does keep being used explicitly to reference McCain. The attitude is that McCain is at heart a good, decent war hero who went off course (seemingly through no real fault of his own) but now has made up for it and boy, it's sure good to see the good old McCain back. That bothers the hell out of me. I believe in redemption as much as the next person, but it'll take more than a few statements at rallies to convince me that McCain has regained his "decency" if he ever really had such a wondrous decency to begin with. I'm starting to wonder if much of it hasn't been an act all along. "Maverick" (which suggests decency, because you're speaking truth to power as a "maverick") has been a great brand for McCain. I think it's been more marketing than anything. A true "maverick" wouldn't have gone back on all his "maverick" positions to win an election.
I am bothered by all the excuses people are making for him. Obviously really bothered! But I've beat this into a dead horse. I'll stop now.
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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phlebotinin edited this topic 9 months ago.
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When I saw the footage late Friday of McCain setting the Obama=Arab=terrorist woman straight that he (Obama) is a decent family man, it was so surprising that I said “I think McCain just got a little of his soul back”. But you know, if he were a man of consistent or decent character himself, he wouldn’t have sold it in the first place. Maybe there is an honorable man under there somewhere, but the politician seems to have has lost most if not all connection to anything besides really wanting to be president no matter how he gets there. I also don’t see him as some sort victim of the ruthless tactics of his campaign managers. It’s one thing when a surrogate goes out and says some crazy shit to the media (which happens on both sides), but he has some control of the tone of his speeches and he doesn’t have to “approve this message”.
And he knows the televangelist effect Palin has on crowds and to continue to allow her to spew that hate and fear speech even after some scary people in the audience started to shout out some *really* scary things is not something anyone should forgive and forget. Does his “maverick/rebel” status compel him to tear apart because Obama wants to bring together? I know the whole thing about letting the VP do the “dirty work” but I find it frightening how much delight she seems to take in lying and meanness.
Oh, and palehorse, your comment about “Republican efforts to silence the arts and to pervert education”, reminded me of how I was hoping for one of the debate questions to concern funding for the arts. Silly me.
And phlebotinin, the brother-in-law of a friend of mine was at Annapolis with McCain and, from what I understand, would question and beg to differ on any noble at heart -ness McCain may possess. He couldn't stand him or his behavior then or now.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Interesting about your friend's brother-in-law, bloodflowers. That accords with the recent Rolling Stone article about McCain that quotes a few of McCain's Annapolis colleagues.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Yeah, I guess "good at heart," doesn't mean much, anyway, does it? :-) We are what we do.
And I certainly agree with the point that when you're choosing a president, someone who is easily controlled by campaign managers or who is always doing things he regrets isn't a very good choice.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Hey, I read all the posts here, crazy-long or crazy-short, phlebotinin! I'm addicted to this thread :).
I did read something a few days ago, though I don't remember where, in which the author was responding to somebody else who had said that John McCain was an honorable man running a dishonorable campaign. The author suggested that this was an absurd statement, and it would make no sense at all to say "Abraham Lincoln behaved in a moral way, but was not in fact a moral person." And that's a neat piece of rhetoric but I think it's missing something. Maybe just the "something" where we try to cut each other a break sometimes, and allow that most of us are decent people who sometimes do bad things. I totally understand not wanting excuses made for McCain, or Palin for that matter, when they've been playing to the mob and making some pretty outrageous accusations. Of course they are responsible for what they do and say, or in McCain's case, for what he allows others involved in his campaign to say.
But I don't know that it makes them anything worse than flawed and, in my opinion, dead wrong on so many issues. McCain in particular has had a long and varied career in which there is a lot to criticize and a lot to admire, and of course there are people who dislike him as well as people who like him, for whatever that's worth. I think he is desperate to be president, I think he has convinced himself that it's OK to do whatever it takes to get there, I think he has doubts about that too, and I think a man with a stronger moral sense would not have made the same choices. But that's as far as I'd go with it. I've no doubt that these are people who love their families, are good to their friends, can behave selflessly as well as selfishly, have done some bad things and some good things, and truly believe that they would be better for the country than Obama.
Maybe I'm just being wishy-washy. I've done plenty of things I'm not proud of ... not along the lines of stoking the wrath of a scary racist mob, mind you, but still... perhaps I'm conveniently inclined to forgive people their moral failings for my own sake. One of the things that always unsettles me about politics is the moral righteousness that comes into play. But I do understand the anger here, of course. I guess I'm looking for a place between "making excuses" for him and condemning him As A Man rather than condemning tactics or behavior.
Then again, I realize there's a point at which certain statements or behaviors are well beyond what any "decent" person could possibly reconcile themselves to and we can no longer say "oh, he's an OK guy, he's just flawed." So maybe my standards should be higher. And speaking of crazy-long posts... I should probably continue this argument with myself in my head.
Funding for the arts came up in the recent Canadian debates, but I'm guessing it's not something that McCain and Obama are going to hash out ;).
Posted 9 months ago.
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Well obviously the ads continue so it does seem more and more this was in response to the news that the negativity wasn't helping his campaign and was hurting it then him being noble and coming to his senses. I want to see the good in people and will try and give them the benefit of the doubt but when you continue to say one thing and do another maybe that is your true face.
I hadn't seen much of the news that last week so I didn't know that there had been reports that these tactics weren't helping. Glad to know that - it was sad enough seeing how his rally going supporters were reacting and I was fearsome that some stupid people who were on the fence were falling for that crap too.
Posted 9 months ago.
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There's a very good Frank Rich opinion piece in the NYTimes here. Note the link to a letter on the McCain-Palin website from a man who says that “Barack Obama’s friend tried to kill my family.” Since the letter is still up on the website, I don't think one can argue that McCain repents of having tried to suggest by implication that Obama is a terrorist. Perhaps the best one can say of him right now in terms of his political strategy is that he is two-faced.
And the Civil Rights leader John Lewis, whom McCain has, in the past, praised, has condemned the tactics of McCain-Palin here. He goes too far in his hyperbolic statement that McCain-Palin comes close to the tactics of George Wallace, but one can hardly fault the man, who was beaten terribly and still bears the scars on his head, if he sees what McCain-Palin are doing as harking back to the era of the Civil Rights movement in the South. In a year in which he can celebrate how far the country has come in nominating a black man for president, how it must pain him to witness this political echo back to that era.
Posted 9 months ago.
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The Frank Rich piece was excellent, palehorse, thank you for linking to it. (By the way, are there directions on this site for how to make a link without just pasting the web address? I know how to do it on whedonesque, is it the same thing here?)
Reading through that article makes me feel my whole inner back-and-forth over whether it goes too far to say that McCain has no sense of decency rather than just condemning his actions in the latter half of this campaign is a bit beside the point. I do think he is in an unpleasant spot right now - having taken Palin on board to give himself a boost, the biggest boost and the most "energy" is coming from the kinds of people he would probably rather not be associated with. But whatever his thought processes, his long history of service, or his moral ambiguities, maybe the only point worth making in response to all this is the one Frank Rich makes at the end of his piece: "The McCain campaign has crossed the line between tough negative campaigning and inciting vigilantism, and each day the mob howls louder. The onus is on the man who says he puts his country first to call off the dogs, pit bulls and otherwise."
Posted 9 months ago.
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Linking is done with the same html tags as on the black.
Glad you liked the Rich opinion piece, catherine.
Posted 9 months ago.
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A stated objective view of numbers in the electoral races by a Republican. The first article in the list below really shows his bias.
Posted 9 months ago.
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*snort* www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1849399,00.html
It's like out of a Disney movies ;)
Posted 9 months ago.
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I love coming here and getting all the latest news! This thread is more informative then any of the cable news shows!!s Thanks for all the great links everyone!!
Posted 9 months ago.
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I had the same thought, bl. This room blows CNN in the weeds. Please, keep it coming, I'm all ears.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Wow, I second (third? or fourth?) that. Great links, lately. If you haven't had a chance to click on palehorse's Frank Rich link, I'd recommend that you skip the rest of what I'm going to say and go back to it, instead-- it's an important, frightening, read.
I've been listening to FOX news on Sirius a bunch lately (helps me understand where family/friends are coming from, when this is all they are listening to) and I've heard some people trying to float a ridiculous, appalling notion about the negative crowd reaction at McCain/Palin rallies. The suggestion was something along the lines of "we don't know who these alleged shouters were. How do we know they aren't Democratic operatives looking for sympathy from the liberal media for their candidate?" Jesus, they'll try anything. What a disgusting, ludicrous ball to try to lob back over the net.
And speaking of the rallies, a journalist traveling with McCain, who covers the rallies, explained to Rachel Maddow that though these kinds of political events always bring out a couple of crazies, in the last several weeks the McCain/Palin rallies have been nothing but frightening fringe. She speaks to as many people in these crowds as she can and insisted that of late, they're nearly all in this mindset. Her demeanor suggested that it has been deeply unsettling to be among them. /shudder
Posted 9 months ago.
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A couple of more links as I take a break from making Thanksgiving dinner! Video of a man at a McCain rally with a stuffed monkey with Obama on it: <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/11/politics/fromtheroad/entry4515246.shtml
and an interview with the woman at the McCain rally who called Obama an Arab: the-uptake.groups.theuptake.org/en/videogalleryView/id/933/
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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samatwitch edited this topic 9 months ago.
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Happy Thanksgiving, Gayle!!!!!!!!!! What I wouldn't give to be at your Thanksgiving table. I'd be raising my glass to say I'm thankful for you, and I'd be stuffing my face. Mmmmmmmmmm.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Happy Thanksgiving! Do you guys do turkey too?!
Anyway, I had seen another version of that man with the stuffed toy on teamxbox. This must be as they were heading into the rally and he's proudly waving it around there for the crowd. Even introducing it to whoever is filming as "This is little Hussein" The person filming the youtube one must have been someone with a camcorder that he thought was a republican or knew because he isn't trying to hide it in this video. But what a sleazy, frakkin excuse for a human that guy is. Here's the link for that:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKUovpF9LWU
Funny how when he notices the cameraman in your link Sama that he tries to hide it and then uses an innocent child to try and cover his actions. Hope he ends up on Countdown's "Worst Person in the World" segment!
And yeah, can't say I'm surprised at the Fox/Rep people trying to spin this and put it on the dems. Typical behavior from them.
Posted 9 months ago.
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"frightening fringe", barest? I swear, you guys truly crack me up!
Er, isn't it a bit early for Thanksgiving's plans?
Posted 9 months ago.
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Not in Canada! :). We do Christmas in November, too. OK, I might have made that up.
My husband just got his absentee ballot today (he's voting in Missouri, since it's a tighter race, even though we live in NJ) and he let me fill it in so I wouldn't have to feel so excluded! Yay, so fun! I just voted (... kind of) for Obama!
Posted 9 months ago.
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Yay Catherine!! I wish I could vote in a state that's a tight race. I live in MA so it's already in the bag for Obama here.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Yes, FF, we do turkey here. It's stuffed and in the oven, the pumpkin ice cream freeze is in the freezer for dessert, maple roasted beets, yams and onions are done, aspargus marinating; now I have to go make my Parmesan vegetable medley (cauliflower, broccoli, red onion, red, yellow & green pepper in a garlic sauce with Parmesan cheese on it), gingered Brussel sprouts & carrots, and tomato-artichoke casserole. Mashed potatoes and gravy are more last-minute.
Oh, also have to finish cleaning my house and have a shower!! Must go.
Another link that should make you smile: news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7665925.stm
Yes, Kara. I wish you & Damon were here to enjoy - Rachel & Justin, too, and all the rest of you.
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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samatwitch edited this topic 9 months ago.
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Oh god - now you just have me drooling!! That all sounds so goooood!! Enjoy your day!!
Posted 9 months ago.
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That's some thanksgiving meal! I know everybody else will be giving thanks! Have a wonderful celebration.
Posted 9 months ago.
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When I say "frightening fringe," Maddy -- I'm trying to be balanced and anti-inflammatory by not labeling all conservatives with this stain. I'm speaking specifically of a certain contingent of seemingly unhinged supporters that reports say have begun dominating some "heartland" appearances of late.
This journalist traveling with the GOP campaign describes interviewing attendee after attendee, hoping to find someone to talk issues/positions etc. at McCain/Palin rallies over the past week and a half. Instead, (and in contrast from weeks prior) she's observing and meeting countless people who only wish to rant about how Obama is "an Arab Muslim" and "a killer" and " a terrorist," not to mention the worst of racial slurs, and that they should "kill him!" People bringing stuffed monkeys labeled "Obama" and crowds of supporters shouting grotesque racial epithets at black cameramen covering the rallies, while hyphenated these disgusting attacks with "Hussein Obama."
"KILL HIM!", Maddy. What would you call that, if not "frightening fringe?" I'm frightened, and assuming these people don't speak for the whole -- thus, "fringe." I mean -- am I wrong? Is this behavior "mainstream conservative?" I sure hope not.
In positive news, we're watching football right now, and an Obama tax commercial came on. It was in letterbox, with the black bar across the bottom reserved for references and sources for every statement/fact/figure mentioned. Love that.
Posted 9 months ago.
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In a Time magazine online article here, reporter Karen Tumulty describes her experiences with GOP volunteers in Virginia. A key paragraph is the following:
"With so much at stake, and time running short, [Virginia state GOP Chairman Jeffrey M.] Frederick did not feel he had the luxury of subtlety. He climbed atop a folding chair to give 30 campaign volunteers who were about to go canvassing door to door their talking points — for instance, the connection between Barack Obama and Osama bin Laden: "Both have friends that bombed the Pentagon," he said. "That is scary." It is also not exactly true — though that distorted reference to Obama's controversial association with William Ayers, a former 60s radical, was enough to get the volunteers stoked. "And he won't salute the flag," one woman added, repeating another myth about Obama. She was quickly topped by a man who called out, "We don't even know where Senator Obama was really born." Actually, we do; it's Hawaii."
I should say, too, that Rick Davis was all over the place today saying that what John Lewis said was reprehensible, and that Obama should apologize for it. His argument: that what Lewis said attacks McCain's character and not his policies, and that McCain was in a prison cell in Vietnam during the Civil Rights era, thus wasn't responsible for the events then. Of course, Obama was 8 years old when Bill Ayers was in the Weather Underground. And calling Obama a terrorist is an attack on his character, not his policies. And John Lewis is not speaking for the Obama campaign, while Sarah Palin is. Who deserves the apology?
Posted 9 months ago.
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Yeah, how come McCain isn't issueing an apology to Obama about the racist tone of his raillies where his supporters are yelling stuff like "kill him" "Bomb Obama", "Terrorist" ect and for the guy carrying the monkey toy with an Obama sticker across it's forehead? The guy was clearly waving the thing while in line waiting to go in, he must have walked through a security pass point where people could be checked and nothing was said about it?
I so wanted to give McCain the benefit of the doubt for his addressing a couple of his supporters but obvious it was more of a ploy to distance himself from the attacks yet he does nothing to stop any of his insiders yet cries foul when someone points out the truths of his strategy. Give me an f*cking break!
Posted 9 months ago.
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To respond to Madhatter's query way back up-thread - I spoke with Willowy this evening and she is well and full of beans and just hasn't been able to get to a computer with Internet access the last few days. I'm sure she'll come roaring back on here as soon as she does.
Posted 9 months ago.
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To lurch back on this thread like fucking Frankenstein's monster - it probably doesn't matter what they do, now . Not at all, probably. It probably didn't matter when I was trying to be so smart and vocal about intervention, either. But if it did, too late. We're fucked now. It's still better Obama than that ruined man McCain. But we're in for a long, bad , time.
Posted 9 months ago.
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I'd like to think that McCain was sincere at the moment he made his remarks (kinda) defending Obama, but can anyone say, too little/too late?
He's reaping the consequences of choosing that evil twit Palin as his running mate. Now if he demanded that she apologize for not halting the shouts of "terrorist" and "kill him" at her rallies, I might be a little more convinced.
Posted 9 months ago.
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ProgGrrl linked this article about Obama's incredible organization on twitter, and I liked it so much I just had to post it here:
www.huffingtonpost.com/zack-exley/the-new-organizers-part...
The guys at www.fivethirtyeight.com have been going around the country checking out McCain's and Obama's campaign headquarters and organizing efforts, and those "On the Road" diaries have been interesting, too. But this article is a lot more in-depth.
Posted 9 months ago.
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tres_shey sums up in one line what I spent paragraphs reaching for. Yeah: I think McCain was being sincere, but it's still "too little, too late."
And while my pessimism doesn't quite reach lurching-Frankenstein's-monster-esque proportions ;), the "yay, Obama is going to be president" (don't worry, I'm knocking on wood) sentiment is definitely tempered by the fact that he's going to have such a mess on his hands, and if he can't magically "fix" the economy or cleanly disentangle the US from its messes in Iraq or make good on plans that were laid before the economy collapsed, his presidency may be viewed as disappointing or even disastrous, depending on how bad things get.
And yet and yet and yet, I have this totally unjustifiable optimism. Maybe because I've been too lucky all my life and my imagination fails me when it comes to real badness, or maybe because it's a gorgeous day and the leaves are turning and I don't believe in badness right now. You may be right about that long, bad time dreamlogic. I hope it won't be as long or as bad as all that, but time will tell.
Here is my favorite editor blogging about canvassing for Obama. She has some interesting stories about her encounters with McCain supporters. It's posted October 12th, so if she adds something in the next day or so, you might have to scroll down.
Posted 9 months ago.
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This video made me laugh out loud, especially the very end. :)
Posted 9 months ago.
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Haha! Sama that was so funny! Need to go e-mail to everyone I know!
Posted 9 months ago.
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After watching that vid and reading the comments someone mentioned this other video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AvL-9PzIVk
Very, very nicely done and this guy can really sing! I guess this one featured on CNN but I hadn't seen it before.
Posted 9 months ago.
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The hawkish but always-impossible-to-predict Christopher Hitchens has declared himself in favor of Obama - not because he likes the candidate but because he thinks McCain-Palin suck even more.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Did anybody see this? (I can't access the video right now, but the words are enough!) "My God is bigger than your God"??
Posted 9 months ago.
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Sheesh, I read about it but didn’t see it until now. I don’t know what to criticize first, the idea of saying something like that (does he not realize that he is addressing the multi-cultural/religious people of America?) or how grammatically incorrect the sentence was!
Posted 9 months ago.
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An interesting watch about Palin's "negative" connections: www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-iW17Hq_y8&feature=related
Posted 9 months ago.
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"It therefore seems to me that the Republican Party has invited not just defeat but discredit this year, and that both its nominees for the highest offices in the land should be decisively repudiated, along with any senators, congressmen, and governors who endorse them."
I don't agree with Hitchens very much at all, but I did like that statement, catherine. Interesting thing about the sentence I quoted above. Our governor, Crist, who was doing his very best to be McCain's VP, just gave McCain the brush-off over the weekend, and went to Disney World rather than attend a McCain rally. When asked whether he was going to continue to help McCain, his response was, ''When I have time to help, I'll try to do that.'' See a longer article about Florida Republicans as they jump like rats from the sinking ship
here.
And KO really gave that preacher a verbal beating last night, samatwitch.
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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palehorse edited this topic 9 months ago.
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A Canadian (actually, ex-pat) friend sent me this:
slatev.com/player.html?id=1842856410
For liberal elite types who are thinking about moving north. :-)
I'm happy to hear about Florida Republicans jumping ship. An early call of Florida for Obama on the 4th would make me very very happy.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Rachel Maddow was great last night too handling that former Bush speech writer guy and her coverage of Palin's repeated statements that she was found innocent of abusing her power.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Ha ha, that slate video reminded me of this during the last election.
I did my part. But somehow we ended up living in the US. Hmm...
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This may put a definitive end to the Ayers controversy.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Thanks for all the links, everyone. Loved the Obama impersonator that barest_smidgen linked. Did you see the other videos by him? This one's a spoof tv ad where he has a go at Palin and there's several more on his Obama playlist. Here's the videos of Rachel Maddow kicking ass as described by FireflyFlanatic. Also one for Campbell Brown saying what really did need said about the various Arab and Muslim comments.
I echo the disgust at the McCain/Palin campaign. Frankly, I don't even understand what they think they're doing. The tactics of fear and a bizarre rejection of reality (characterised by blatant lies, sometimes unbelievably hypocritical) were never likely to win over enough voters. Did the racist vote really need shoring up? Hardly. I guess they just had no other ideas. Thankfully, they seem to have stepped back a little from the edge (blatant lying still on the menu though), but the feelings they stirred up among their more moronic supporters can't easily be put back in the bottle, as demonstrated by another idiot screaming out "Kill him!" at a rally today. Of course, now they're trying to create trouble over ACORN, which is disingenuous and laughable. If Mickey Mouse turns up to vote, I'll take this back ;).
Anyway, how about a US election quiz? Can you beat my 8/10? Probably ;).
Posted 9 months ago.
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Got 9/10. Missed the plane question.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Thank you for that NovaViking! Campbell Brown finally said what intelligent people have been thinking as the witnessed such awful displays – I really hope this opens the doors for discussion on the matter and setting things straight.
Posted 9 months ago.
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This is a little off-topic, but it is related to politics & means of persuasion.
My neighbor, Tom, is in his 70s. Sunday he was driving down a somewhat crowded road and realized that one of his tires was flat. He pulled over to the side and was standing with his trunk open and his jack out, puzzling about what to do because he'd never changed a tire on this car before. A young man (a "kid" according to Tom, about 20) and a young woman came up & offered to help. The kid changed the tire for him, told Tom not to worry about it, and refused to accept the $20 Tom offered him when he finished. He said something about believing in helping people. As Tom was leaving he said, "But you could do me a favor. A favor for me & my friends."
"What's that?" said Tom.
"Please vote no on Proposition 8." (the anti gay marriage bill in CA.)
I thought that was pretty cool. (But Tom was voting no anyway, cos he's pretty cool, too.)
Posted 9 months ago.
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Oh, jcurries -- what a lovely story. Thank you so much for sharing that. Great way to start the day. :)
Here's a short piece about conservative Christopher Buckley endorsing Obama, and having to quit the National Review as a result. Here's the important bit:
"While I regret this development, I am not in mourning, for I no longer have any clear idea what, exactly, the modern conservative movement stands for," Buckley wrote.
"Eight years of 'conservative' government has brought us a doubled national debt, ruinous expansion of entitlement programs, bridges to nowhere, poster boy Jack Abramoff and an ill-premised, ill-waged war conducted by politicians of breathtaking arrogance. As a sideshow, it brought us a truly obscene attempt at federal intervention in the Terry Schiavo case," he also wrote.
The resignation comes four days after Buckley formally endorsed Obama on the Web site The Daily Beast, writing the presidential campaign had made John McCain "inauthentic," and Obama appeared to have a "first-class temperament and first-class intellect."
I'm less gleeful than you might guess. I do really feel for anyone who feels lost in the space between their beliefs and the group they once identified with.
Posted 9 months ago.
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I'm almost afraid to say this, but it's looking good, folks.
I haven't found time to check out any of the links to stuff that you actually have to read, but the videos are great, especially "Hey Sarah Palin" :)
And I can never resist a quiz., I got 8 of 10. I don't follow Ophra so I just took a wild stab at that one (although I almost ticked the correct answer just on instinct) and I got the Saturday Night Live one wrong. I couldn't imagine it being Lorne Michaels & certainly not the producer of The West Wing, so I choose Sex and the City.
I can't say I share your sympathy for Buckley, barest. I lean more toward hoping he'll find a new (liberal) group to identify with, where his intellect will actually be appreciated (and his words will be understood).
By "having to' quit The National Review, I assume you mean his choice was "resign or be fired"? Could prove to be the best thing that ever happened to him.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Apologies if this has already been posted. I know not everyone enjoys Hitchens, but I thought that this was a great piece.
www.slate.com/id/2202163/
Posted 9 months ago.
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10 for 10 on the quiz :) And I completely share sympathy for Buckley. As someone who has been constantly disillusioned by any party that he has ever felt any affiliation with and watching the bizarre and sometimes hostile reactions of people I used to agree with more often... I feel for the guy. Its not easy to stand up and say "What's happening to the party that I joined? Something is wrong here." Now he's out a job for not toeing the line.
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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zeitgeist_1975 (a group admin) edited this topic 9 months ago.
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Had to link to this article, not so much for the article itself, but for the pictures. The first should amuse any fellow Monty Python fans and the second could well be the most racist sign I've seen so far. Even thinking about the effort that's clearly gone into it does my head in.
Posted 9 months ago.
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I linked to that Hitchens piece as well, zeitgeist. I read his stuff even when he's pissing me off, actually, because he writes such beautiful sentences. And speaks in them, too! I do think he's a great mind. I just don't ... get him sometimes. But yeah, that was a good lil' article.
Off to follow NotaViking's link, bracing myself to be appalled.
Posted 9 months ago.
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4 out of 10 on the quiz. I guess I'm too ignorant to be voting this time around. Ah well . . . Or possibly I stopped paying close attention to the daily churn of the election a while back. :-) (Still, I too was surprised that the answer was Lorne Michaels).
I think Buckley's taken a morally courageous stand that should be applauded. I've drifted from being a "roots" left-winger (for family reasons) to being a misfit sort-of-centrist, with leftist instincts in some respects but libertarian ones in others so I think I understand his disillusionment with party politics.
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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LukeOfThatIlk (a group admin) edited this topic 9 months ago.
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Hear, hear, brother Luke. Oops, catherine! Appaling sign, NotaViking...
Posted 9 months ago.
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oh, not oops, I meant "hey, we linked to the same thing" not "I linked first!" ;). On a thread this long, multiple linkings seem like a good idea, really.
BTW did anybody else see the lovely bit on the daily show last night, making fun of how John McCain's response to "he's an Arab" was "he's a decent, family man," and questioning whether or not one could possibly be both of those things? I don't know where to link to it, because we're staying in a house with an ACTUAL TV right now, and watched it the old-fashioned way.
Posted 9 months ago.
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I was just about to watch last night's Daily Show online - I'm guessing it's this bit here, you're talking about catherine.
Also, in bizarre news, Colin Powell becomes an unlikely hip-hop star. When I came across this first, through the gallery, I thought it was a spoof. Apparently not. Next time, Colin, unbutton your jacket ;). Of all those featured, only Nelson Mandela can pull it off.
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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NotaViking edited this topic 9 months ago.
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Has this one been posted?
www.funnyordie.com/videos/df8d1f5b7d
Hayden Panettiere on John McCain (warning, she drops the F-bomb several times).
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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zeitgeist_1975 (a group admin) edited this topic 9 months ago.
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I feel sorry for any Republican who's more on the libertarian side of the party. They must have thought they were going to finally get a bit of representation from McCain, and then he turned around and chose Sarah Palin for VP.
Unrelatedly, check out this weirdness: www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Voting_for_Obama_any.... Seems people's desperation for change is having some weird effects.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Just a note to say that a student taped up a poster in one of our elevators at school. It was a parody of the Obama "Hope" poster -- this one with McCain's face and "Nope" under it. I had to smile.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Here's the Nope poster:
www.cafepress.com/hopenope
(and other "ope" stuff.)
Posted 9 months ago.
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Well, the student created a different version, but I figured it already existed somewhere. It still made me smile. Of course, I saw it during my 12th hour at work today, so I was just short of delirious, anyway.
ETA: OK, it's mid debate, and this is the most surreal experience I have seen in a long while. Everything McCain says is linked to its predecessor by stream-of-consciousness logic. He's been hanging around Palin too much.
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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palehorse edited this topic 9 months ago.
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Pretty similar to the other debates really, no game-changers and I saw it as a slight win for Obama again. Of course, the real question is what did "Joe the Plumber" make of it? LOL. I couldn't believe it when McCain went on about him at first and then he just kept bring him up again and again. So funny. I'll have more to say tomorrow, but I'm off to bed, it's late, or rather early.
Posted 9 months ago.
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I saw another www.flickr.com/photos/40877895@N00/ adaptation of the Hope poster on a roadsign. I'd think the creator is against Obama, but I'm not sure whether he realized the irony in using the word Obey here.
After seeing the debates I cannot believe so many people will still vote for McCain, the more I see of him the less I like him and the less I trust his policies. Then again, these are American elections, so I should not be surprised by the complete different political ideas a large part of the nation has. I could not believe anyone would vote Bush in the second time either.
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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Celebithil edited this topic 9 months ago.
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I was happy to see Nate at www.fivethirtyeight.com/ 's summation:
Congratulations, President Obama. (And this from a guy who thought McCain was winning the first half of the debate.)
Posted 9 months ago.
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Thanks for the Hayden Panettiere video, zeitgeist. She rates an eleven on my awesomeness scale of ten, for walking the walk of her political and ethical convictions.
Her participation in the protest of the horrifying annual dolphin round up and slaughter in Japan, joining a group that actually put their bodies in the water to try and protect the dolphins, won my undying admiration.
Re. last night's debate, I'm still smiling. It was Mr. Presidential vs. the inarticulate, bizarre Grumpy Guy. :-)
Posted 9 months ago.
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Play with Palin as President.
Posted 9 months ago.
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LOL...
Posted 9 months ago.
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This is rich . . . Joe the Plumber has an association to Keating!
Posted 9 months ago.
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MSNBC is reporting the Joe the Plumber has also been operating without a license and he owes back taxes. I'm sure he's delighted that McCain made him a national figure and brought scrutiny on him. With all the copyright infringement that the McCain camp has done in public performances of copyrighted music without permission, you'd think perhaps they might think twice about making someone a celebrity for a few minutes without checking with him to see if that's okay.
But, I guess not.
At least the guy isn't a serial killer or something.
Posted 9 months ago.
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barest, you beat me to it. That was so fun!
Tomorrow's headlines: Joe the Plumber is a serial...
joking! joking!
Poor guy. He probably wants to not leave home for a month. I felt less sympathy when he went all negative on social security, however.
Posted 9 months ago.
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I don't know if these links are to the best feeds, so you can just search for Al Smith Dinner if they aren't good. But in the midst of an ugly campaign, it felt like a huge relief to watch this. Lots of laughs, too.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goaj5V4tZoc
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrqoSyKsAPw
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXKaAQ-6BiU
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkBQf4FJi-o
Posted 9 months ago.
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Woah.
The Washington Post endorses Obama
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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lauraannesummers edited this topic 9 months ago.
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McCain's grand return to Letterman is something to see, too:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=v48l5s8qryk
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiI4z9h6cgA
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV93U115RnM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHHcvho3CT0
Posted 9 months ago.
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Catherine, I couldn't agree with you more about the Al Smith dinner..I was on the plane from New York to San Diego and thanks to Jetblue got to watch it live, as well as the Letterman interview. I was laughing hysterically with tears streaming down my face (much to the annoyance of my sleeping neighbor) when the dinner coverage started because I had no idea what it was about until McCain's first joke. I thought they were both wonderfully funny and it was such a refreshing break from all of the vile pettiness lately. I can't wait to watch it again.
Posted 9 months ago.
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I know, saltygoodness. I watched the Al Smith dinner live this morning and it felt wonderful watching the two poke fun at one another and their peers/rivals. I'm still smiling when Obama flicked that one towards Hillary. At first, she just smiled and nodded. Then, a second later, she caught the impact of the joke and then she really started laughing. And this is the one that had me rolling in tears.
Obama: "John McCain is onto something. There was a point in my life when I started palling around with a pretty ugly crowd. I've got to be honest. These guys were serious deadbeats; they were lowlifes; they were unrepentant no good punks! That's right. I've been a member of the United States Senate."
catherine, thank you for the links to the Letterman interview. I missed that one. David was really in the cats bird seat with that one. I bet that McCain really wished he didn't cancel that first interview. At least, he admitted it.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Madhatter, I loved the Hillary jokes from both Obama and McCain. It was really nice to see her laughing. She looked more real and approachable than I had ever seen her appear before. That whole event was just a spirit-lifter.
I also flipped to Jay Leno during the Letterman commercial breaks and he had some funny stuff too....but this pic of McCain that Leno showed, immediately reminded me of the Mutant Enemy logo "grr, argh!." I don't usually like to focus on these kind of mean freeze-frame images (God knows I've been caught in enough ugly expressions on film myself) but you must admit, the whedon connection makes this one irresistable not to share (It's the last pic in the slideshow): www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/16/the-many-faces-of-john-...
You know, I feel so bad for posting this that I may have to edit it out.
Posted 9 months ago.
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