|
Search this group's discussions
|
Successor to the 350D speculation
|
This thread got me thinking about the 350D and what Canon will replace it with. As mentioned in the thread, the 350D is getting on a bit and while I love the camera and still think it has plenty of life left, I wonder what its replacement will be like?
There are a couple of features that would be great but I can't see happening, resolution increase and full size sensor. Full sensor would make it ridiculously expensive even if the engineers could sneak it past marketing. On the resolution side I think they could feasibly manage a consumer camera now with 10mp for same price as the current 8mp but I don't think they would want to eat into the rest of their lineup. Having said that the 300 to 350 did bring with it an increase of 2mp ...
One thing I would love them to do is match the Nikons and have digital overlays for the focus screen, I find them so nice to line up horizons and for rule of thirds shots (so shoot me, I am an amateur, why do you think I own a 350d in the first place!).
All the features I can think of them adding would eat into the 20D/30D market in some way. My wishlist makes it basically a smaller, lighter 20D.
So what do you think the 350D replacement will be like and what will they call it? The 400D?
Posted at 2:40AM, 15 June 2006 PDT
(permalink)
|
|
I don't know the answer to your question but I too have a wish list.
1. Put focus points in "rule of thirds" locations. After all, that's where you're supposed to put your subjects right?
2. Flash exposure compensation. We shouldn't have to hack our firmware to get this feature.
3. Faster startup.
4. Stop making the grey ones...They tarnish the image of the 300D/350D. I just feel they look like cheap point and shoots and they look funny with black or white lenses.
5. Larger viewfinder for better manual focus.
I know, I know. I need a 5D. Tell that to my wife...
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
I think they'll have to do some headscratching about what features to include, as Sony have just brought out the Alpha 100 at a very aggressive price with some very sexy marketing hooks (in-camera IS, dust removal, 10Mpx D200 sensor, in-camera dynamic range optimization).
I think Canon could feasibly ignore the IS as they have so many IS lenses already, but they could trump Sony by beating them on ergonomics and performance (5 fps, fast raw buffering, more complex metering and focussing, a jog dial maybe).
I'd like to see a 350D replacement with most of the cool 30D features and speed and a corresponding speccing-up of the 30D to leave the Nikon D200 gasping to catch up. Course they'd then have to make the 5D more 1D-like, and the 1D a MF-killer!
Full-frame's a non-starter. They're not going to release a consumer cam that needs to be fed an almost exclusive L-glass diet!
Originally posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
SteveFE edited this topic 73 months ago.
|
|
|
Isn't that the truth!
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
I would guess you will see a very small upgrade. A few things that are nice for sure, but more like the 20d to 30d upgrade. They are not going to give you too much or there is no way you are going to buy the 40d. They have 5 price points, and that is where they are going to stay. Truth is they could give you a 1 series body for that money. We are all paying for R/D and we always will.
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
It's not going to be full frame... They are still coming out with new EF-S lenses so obviously it's not going away anytime soon.
I think you will see an 'evoluationary' change (like jamric stated) in the new version of the Rebel, much like the changes you see between the 20D and the 30D, etc. So I do think you will get faster start up, better AF system, better sensor performance (i.e. lower ISO noise).
The sucessor to the RebelXT is already finished (or very close) so anything that Sony/Samsung, etc. do now isn't going to be addressed in the RebelXT/350D's replacement. I would assume we would see it replaced this fall...
...I'm really interested to see what they bring out for the 1Ds MkII's replacement.
Originally posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
fensterbme (a group admin) edited this topic 73 months ago.
|
|
Why am I such a sucker for this sort of discussion?
350D features match pretty close to the 20D, so I would imagine the successor might benefit from a few of the 30D's new features...
Bigger screen, spot metering, flash exposure compensation (as stated previously) and hopefully an extra button or two to make access to certain parameters easier. Oh and the scene modes, too!
I wouldn't expect a new sensor as they still have the D50 beat badly on this one and there's no sense in one-upping the 30D.
One thing that would really, really be nice is if they jump on the automatic sensor clean bandwagon like Olympus and others. That would really be appreciated. If it works.
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
@m.a.x.: I don't know why I'm a sucker either... I don't think however that the RebelXT has got the D50's sensor be badly. In fact I've heard that in some ways it's better... (RebelXT sill does better in low light, etc.) I'm a Canon shooter and think the RebelXT/350D overall is a better camera, but there are lots of reasons to choose the D50. I'd almost buy it on feel alone, I really dislike the RebelXT's feel in my hand, to small and feels a bit cheap (and I dislike that they offer silver as well, although I expect them to continue it).
Perhaps someone who is a Nikon guy like tychay, etc. can step in here and bring some clarity. Let's not make this a D50 vs. RebelXT debate though... both are good camera's.
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I won't turn this into a nikon v. canon debate, but just to clarify, I meant the sensor alone, not any of the rest of the camera. I like the d50 as well.
I personally don't like the way the D70/D50's sensors perform in certain situations (moire and noise), but I guess that's a personal opinion.
8mp v. 6mp with similar noise characteristics, however, does mean Canon has Nikon beat for a low-end camera, though.
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Just to give another perspective, some of the speculation out there has been that the "400D" will actually be a dumbed down, inexpensive dRebel. This would be a way for Canon to hook more users into its lens and accessories, which is probably where they make most of their profits.
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I saw a silver finish D50 today so Canon isn't alone in the "let's make our DSLR look like a point and shoot" camp ;O)
My hope would be that they won't do a dumb-down or cheapy model. A few online friends gasped when they heard the D50 was going to be a cheaper dumbed-down version of the D70s but they were relieved when they finally saw it that they hadn't gone too far down that road.
One thing they could definitely do is bundle a better kit lens. I know they need to stick to a price point and the 18-55 has lots of fans but there has got to be some tweakage they could perform there.
Sensor cleaning would be very welcome as would larger viewfinder and LCD.
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
@RickKramer: I could see this as possible, more so because of the low price on the D50 and other competiting products coming out from Sony and Samsung. Keeping Canon in the game at the low price level...
How About 2 Rebel's:
Possibly it would be interesting to see them have a Rebel basic and a Rebel Advanced (they have that now in the 35mm film Rebel's)... Have one at a lower price point and one at a higher price point. Would be interesting to see a basic rebel at the $499 price with the more advanced one at $799 as those price ranges are very different. It also still leaves lots of space between the $799-$899 world and the $1349 world of the 30D.
Canon needs more DSLR's in the line up... Look how many film SLR's they've sold for years. Right now it's either $700, $1400, $2700, or Crazy Money...
Most People Never Buy Accessories or Lenses:... yeah they make tons on the accessories and the lense, etc. but the vast majority of Rebel and even 20D users just use the kit lens. and will never buy another accessory (which is sad).
Originally posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
fensterbme (a group admin) edited this topic 73 months ago.
|
|
One thing I think would be nice is to "bring back" the larger hand-grip on the Digital Rebel Series. I have an XT and after using it for about 8 months, I found that the grip felt a tad too small for my hands.
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Direct print button. ;-)
The d50 actually has a stellar ISO 1600, so I wouldn't say the XT is better in low-light. It's probably the only market segment where Nikon is at least as good in high-ISO noise, and probably better.
Otherwise, the incrementalists are likely right. Scene modes, 2.5-inch LCD, spot metering. Canon also likely knows they need a cheaper-but-still decent model. Maybe the rumored 3000D, but the inability to shoot RAW on those (made-up) specs seemed totally silly, since even my $100 Canon s45 can shoot RAW.
Originally posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
Ryan Brenizer edited this topic 73 months ago.
|
|
|
Yeah, well any of the cheap point and shoots could do spot metering, but not until the 30D could any of the prosumer cameras do it! And there's *still* no inexpensive wireless remote for the 10D/20D/30D line!!!
In sum, Canon is not above being silly :)
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
I agree that the new model is unlikely to feature-jump the 30D - it's still probably going to have another year of life in the market, and that would really throw the product line into confusion.
If I had to guess, I'd say that hitting a cheaper price point would be the aim, as the D50 has a price advantage at the moment. Maybe a cut down model would compete better at the beginner level, with removal of RAW support and a simpler (?) layout - more like an SLR-cum-compact? Sounds horrible to me, but it might get them even more market share.
A replacement for the kit lens would be welcome by us, but I don't think that the market for the bottom-end dSLR really needs it - there are already some better alternatives for the more savvy customers and the kit lens is ok-ish as an introduction lens for many users. It's certainly a negative feature of the kit, though.
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I quite like the feel of the 350D but then I bought it because I loved my EOS film camera which is pretty much the same.
Back when people were speculating about the 30D there was talk of a bottom-end 6mp "3000D", perhaps that is the dumbed-down product? I agree it would be interesting to have an additional lower entry point. The people I know with SLRs or DSLRs tend to be split 50/50 between "kit addicted" (I fall into that camp) and "happy with what they have", my friend Mark is in that category. Actually despite the famed Nikon Acquisition Syndrome it seems to be D70s owners who stick with what they have, perhaps they have a superior kit lens so are less likely to seek out the others in the range ...?
My guess is while we might know by autumn in time for Christmas, probably some big photo show like Photokina, it might well be Feb 2007 (PMA?) like the 30D ..
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
My brother has a D50, and I was surprised by the noise performance. It wasn't that good in the D70/D70s in comparison, but the D50 is definitely a step up (not a big one, but still a step) beyond the 350D. I can't remember if the lowest ISO noise level is as low as the 350D's lowest ISO noise level, though - the D50 goes to ISO200, doesn't it?
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I'm not sure sensor performance needs to be improved. The 350D goes from 100-1600. Not sure if 350D is included but from what I have read on reviews sites Canons have a slight edge in noise reduction. Main plus point for Nikon over Canon tends to be ergonomics, with Canon scoring on ISO, USB2.0 and additional 2mp. Perhaps with better controls and screen that would be enough to edge it further?
Just had an idea for a couple of nice features that are probably unlikely but would be fun:
- GPS
- Wifi
Originally posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
chrisgarrett edited this topic 73 months ago.
|
|
|
@Chrisgarret: The question is how well does the RebelXT/350D do at the higher ISO's, not just what ISO does it do.. There is also more to noise, there's ISO noise and color noise, and stuff... Someone like tychay could sound in and explain it in more depth. Canon has great sensors and in the past Nikon has lagged behind, but in the last year with the D200, and the D50 Nikon has shown that they've come along way. If I didn't own anything right now I'd be taking a hard look at the D200.
I agree Wifi would be a welcome addtion especially in the consumer market, those kids want wireless everything. Me, give me gigabit copper please.
Sony and Samsung are Out to Eat Nikon and Canon's Lunch:
The big thing is that in the consumer market Samsung and Sony are going to go full guns into the DSLR territory that Nikon and Canon have dominated. The result is going to be great for us... price will drop and technology will be more rapidly put into devices.
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Yeah I think Sony will be a real threat. Perhaps the solution is a dirt-cheap entry model then, in a "give the razor away and sell the blades" kind of idea? Tie people into the Canon range...
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Sony have publicly stated that their aim is to edge out Nikon from the No2 spot in the DSLR market. Soon. Sounds like fightin' talk to me.
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
fenster—I've seen Nikon colour noise in prints and files, and I'd say they produce more chroma speckles than Canon sensors. Either that or the JPG processing is doing less smoothing in-camera to keep that sharpness edge that Niks tend to have. I actually quite like Canon ISO1600 noise.
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Competition is a good thing. It will be interesting to see if more dSLR buyers go for in-body anti-shake now that Sony and Samtax(Pentung?) are doing it than they did when Minolta had it.
Originally posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
Ryan Brenizer edited this topic 73 months ago.
|
|
|
Yes in-body IS is an interesting one. I wonder if an IS lens on an IS body would cancel out, make worse or improve the affect? ...
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I thought it sounded like the in-body IS worked okay, but that at longer focal lengths things didn't hold up as well, that's just rumor...
I think Canon and Nikon will cry if in-camera IS becomes popular, as they both make tons of money putting IS in a lens and tacking 50% increase in price on it.
Posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Nikons (as a rule of thumb) have higher chroma noise and less luminance noise than Canon.
I realize that the 30D was recently updated, but wouldn't it make more sense to introduce a new model in that range ($1200-$1800 body) instead of introducing a 350D sequel? It seems that they've done everything they could do with that sensor short of making it a 30D without the alloy body. (I realize that they could add a jog wheel, but wouldn't that mess with the size of the Rebel? I felt its compact size was a good selling point of it.)
Of course, I remember that the Nikon D70 matched the D100 at one time. But the D100 was very long-in-tooth, and the 30D isn't.
If I were Canon I'd focus on more competitive pricing. The weakness of the new Pentax, Olympus, and Sony offerings is they are around $1k while the Nikon D50, Pentax *st DL2, and the Canon 350D are sub that. Of them, the 350D has the best spec on paper (8MP sensor is going to be a selling point to the target market), if they can get the price competitive or lower than they have (currently, the street price of DL is about $150 lower, the D50 is about $80 lower), then they'll sell like gangbusters.
Especially now that they've come up with another professional quality EF-S lens (17-55mm f/2.8 IS).
As for in-body anti-shake (a feature that has been on my wishlist forever), it's now obvious that Nikon and Canon will be the last to change. The big surprise here is that Olympus (currently #3 btw, so if Sony wants #2 they're going to have to get here first) adopted optical image stabilization (via Panasonic) instead of anti-shake. Anecdotally, I feel that this won't affect the market much. Most people I know who are seriously in the market for the dSLR end up purchasing a Canon and Nikon in that order because that is what people they know use (and in spite of my admonitions otherwise). A number of people I found are receptive to the idea of in-camera anti-shake but these people tend to be on-the-fence about everything, I don't think they'll be purchasing a digital camera anytime soon.
My point is, in general, that Sony, Pentax and Olympus are just trying to find equitability here with the strength of the Canon and Nikon brand name (the two combined account for like 85% of digital SLR sales and dSLR is the most profitable part of the camera business and has a huge coattail effect--it makes even the compact cameras profitable). But if we're going to think that in-camera anti-shake is going to be a selling point "on par" with the Canon or Nikon brand name we're deluding ourselves, plain and simple. As a whole the three companies might regain their pre-digital share of the market (a really good thing for the market as a whole).
Of the three Sony is probably the best positioned because they can draw on sales of nearly every small-camera sensor chip and the majority of the dSLR sensor chip sales (the 6MP 1.5x CCD, 10MP 1.5x CMOS and CCD are Sony chips). They might be able to flip positions with Olympus at #3 if they keep it up--perhaps fitting as Minolta used to be the #3 35mm brand.
Originally posted 73 months ago.
(permalink)
tychay edited this topic 73 months ago.
|
Would you like to comment?
Sign up for a free account, or sign in (if you're already a member).
|
|
Photographer's Tech Resources /
Discuss
Feed – Subscribe to Photographer's Tech Resources discussion threads