Technique / Discuss

greywulf [deleted] says:

Hmmmmmmm. Put my vote in the Canon EOS camp. I love my 300D and have no plans to "upgrade" any time soon.

I've tried for Nikon and Canon DSLRs and both provide excellent shots. For my money, the Canons tend to shoot more accurate colours and a little less sharpness than the equivalent Nikon kit. Nikons tend to saturate and sharpen in-camera a little more. You can configure both systems to get the shot you want in the style you want though.

Sharpness and technical image quality has more to do with the the lens than the light tight box behind it though. A lot depends on your budget, of course.

For the Canon, the 50mm f/1.8 lens is a must. It's very high quality, cheap and probably the best lens you'll ever own.

The kit 18-55 lens is surprisingly good, despite much criticism online. Around f/8, it's a terrific performer, and the wide end is great.

My "cheap" all purpose lens is the Tamron 28-300. That's the one that lives on my camera if I don't want to carry my bag of lenses around.

For macro work, the Canon's 100mm f/2.8 Macro is perfect - take a look at this page for more details.


This is a pretty cheap set-up, and would be a good all round kit that you can extend as you explore the different styles of photography. If you do settle into one genre, then you can extend your kit around your needs.

Hope that helps!
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

SteveFE    says:

Don't know what other cameras you had lined up before your shortlist, but there are others with features that are useful.

The Konica Minolta 7D for instance has lots of knobs and dials for instant, film SLR-like access to control (rather than twiddling with menus). It also has in-camera image stabilisation so you can get IS without buying super-expensive lenses.

The Pentax *ist DS can easily use hundreds of older Pentax lenses.

The Olympus SLRs have 4:3 sensors, ultrasonic sensor cleaning and expensive lenses ;-)

Having said that I'm a Canon boy. I don't like the colours straight out of the camera on Nikons (too red and green for me). I'll second the 50mm f1.8 vote, ridiculously cheap for such a good portrait lens, although it feels so light you'd wonder if there's any glass in it at all. It won't take any beatings for sure.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

f8125 says:

Get a Canon eos 300 or 350D without kit lens and get the 17-40 L lens. Or save some money and get the Nikon D70 with kit lens (not the D70s which is more expensive but little different).
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

maz hewitt    says:

I think you should go to a shop and feel them - it might sound silly, but if you have largish hands, you might find the 350D a little small.

Otherwise take f8125's advice.

I'm sure you will take great photos with either.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

Ted Forbes    says:

As its been said here - the Canon's do have superior color. Nikon is a great camera, but I think Canon is the winner.

"I'd like whatever I get to be reasonably 'future proof' as this is going to have to last me a goody while."

Heh - good luck. Nothing holds its value with digital. This is the FASTEST changing camera market the world has ever seen.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

quadrapop    says:

thanks for the speedy replies. You have all given me much to think about.

@stevefe: I had also considered the konika-minolta 7D, especially as I have access to old manual minolta leses through my Dad's collection...

@gravityroom: I know what you mean, but even so some models will be useful for longer than others (usually the least gimmicky ones IMHO), it's been that way with other IT tech.

@mazhewitt: I agree, it will end up coming don to feel and price when I look at the cameras in person. I'm still at the web searching stage atm. We dont have the $$s atm for me to do much else;-)

thanks again.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

Ryan Brenizer    says:

If you have the Minolta lenses, give their cameras a look, but, well, here goes the old advice:

These days, even entry-level dSLRs are amazing cameras. Although each has slightly different characteristics, you can get amazing images out of any of them. So my advice is to try them out at the store and see what YOU like.

Right now, if I were entering the market, I'd say the d50 looks like a winner -- less noise than the other entry cameras and excellent Nikon ergonomics. But that's me. If you often print above 11x18 for some reason, maybe you want the slightly higher resolution of the Canon or Olympus offerings.

All systems, particularly Nikon and Canon, have all the lenses you will ever need. A good thing about Nikon is that it's easy to use old manual lenses, which you can get for dirt cheap on eBay. They have to be focused manually and don't meter with the entry-level cams, but if you're mostly taking architecture and landscape that doesn't matter.

If you're doing ultra-professional architecture shots, I'd give Canon a slight edge for having more tilt-shift lenses, but I don't think that's the case, and Nikon has some good ones, too. I'd recommend trying the d50, 350D and 7D in the store and seeing what feels right in your hands. And whatever you get, pick up a cheap 50mm to go along with it. You'll thank me later.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

Studio E says:

If it were me, I'd go with a Canon 350D or 20D with the following lenses:

Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8
Tamron 90mm macro f/2.8
Canon 50mm f/1.8
Tokina 12-24mm f/4

These are all pretty good lenses, judging from the reviews, and they should meet your needs initially. I own the Canon 1.8 and the Tamron 28-75 and am completely satisfied with them.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

geoffbennett    says:

i definately recommend the cannon 50mm f/1.8 - nice cheap prime that gives great results! i got mine on friday and haven't put it down since!
Originally posted 81 months ago. (permalink)
geoffbennett edited this topic 81 months ago.

furthe r says:

quadrapop, you'll need an mf/af adapter to attach those manual focus lens to the 7d. but i bought a 135mm f2.8 for 40 u.s dollars and that becomes a 200/2.8 Image Stabilized (from Anti-Shake) on the 7d.

aside from the user interface, i think the appeal of the 7d is that you can shoot with a 50/1.4, 28/2, 17-35/2.8-4, 28-75/2.8, any prime or fast zoom, and they are image stabilized, for free. available light shooting is where the 7d excels.

your interest in "macros, landscape/architectural, using ambient or natural lighting" may fit with the 7d. your macro and wide zooms will be image stabilized, increasing your handhold ability, especially in low light.

but nikon has a good range of wide angle lenses. i would check there line up and see if you like the focal lengths.

for macros i'd suggest the tamron 90 2.8. this is available in canon, nikon, minolta and pentax mounts. on the 7d it is image stablilized.

www.photographyreview.com/mfr/tamron/35mm-primes/PRD_8360...

and for wide the tamron 17-35/2.8-4, which some say is as sharp as canon's 17-40 4L at a lower price. available in canon, nikon, minolta and pentax mounts. on the 7d is image stablized. i have the minolta 17-35 which is based on the tamron one, but reportedly has better coating on it.

www.photographyreview.com/35mm,Zoom/Tamron/PRD_289438_312...

tamron 17-35 and the canon 17-40L head to head comparisons of 100 percent crops. nododo.home.comcast.net/ultrawide/index.html

of course if you need wider than 28mm equiv, there are other options. but these lenses also get you to about normal (50mm), so that may be useful.

sony and minolta have agreed to make dslrs with the minolta af mount so they may have plans to be in the market for a while. i would check the minolta lens line up and see if it has focal lenghts you need, though i think they have all but the most exotic, like tilt shift lenses and really long, fast telephotos in their line up. minolta has much less USM lenses than canon and nikon, this may change with the sony alliance. the coming 9d body is speculated to be at least 12 mp, full frame, and have upgradable sensor (modular?).

if your shooting involved flash, i would have suggested nikon as their system is good. if you need fast auto focus and clean hi-iso, canon is great at that. but for shooting in available light, i think minolta's Anti-Shake is very helpful.

if you are considering chosing a minolta, the 5d is lighter, cheaper, but still with Anti-Shake and same (?) sensor, image quality as 7d.

you may have more options (nikon d200?, olyumpus e-3?) if you can wait until next year for the new model announcements. www.dpreview.com/articles/pma2005/

this discussion may have been more appropriate for the equipment group.
Originally posted 81 months ago. (permalink)
furthe r edited this topic 81 months ago.

Kelly Cheng    says:

Btw, in what way does Olympus' 4/3 technology superior to Canon or Nikon, it it does?
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

fensterbme    says:

Before you Start:
The first question to ask is, how much do I have in my piggie bank? The second question is what do I want to acomplish and what kind of results do I expect?

Canon vs. Nikon (for dSLR's):
I was a long time Nikon film snob, but when investgating the digital realm I realized that my beloved Nikon was at least a year behind Canon (I think they figured that film would be around longer). I bought a canon PowerShot and loved it, now I have a 20D and am smitten... Canon has won me over 100%.

I think the D70s is a good camera but for the money I think the Rebel XT is a better bang for the buck for image quality. With DSLR technology changing so fast, invest most of your cash in the glass not the body. Bodies come and go, but glass keeps it's value.

If Canon:
If your apt to go Canon I would recommend you look at the Rebel XT (w/out lens, go buy your own) and buy better glass if price is an issue. The RebelXT has almost the same image quality as my 20D. The glass is where your getting your image quality. Pick the lenses that you need. I would highly reccomend at least one prime lens, great for shallow DoF and available light photography.

Used:
I looked at slighly used DSLR bodies, but realized I *really* wanted the lower ISO noise the new bodies offered. I also wanted a better AF system than the old systems had... I have friends with Canon 10D's, Nikon D100's and D70's and all have lots of noise issues at high ISO settings.

Picking a System (your decision will likely lead you into one brand for a LONG time, think a long time before buying:
I don't have issues with Pentax, Minolta, etc. but wanted to buy into a system that I could grow with... Canon and Nikon have the best selection of glass/flashes, etc. so it was down to the two of them, then it went to Canon because I felt the image quality was higher.

Good luck, have fun...
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

tychay    says:

Why isn't this discussion on Equipment?
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

Ryan Brenizer    says:

Because it is the undying question, and pops up everywhere.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

occecid    says:

Rebel XT or 20D
first lens: 17-85 IS
Then the following as budget allows.
NEW - 70-300 IS. This new lens is very close to L series quality with the UD glass.
EF-s 60mm f2.8 Macro for both close up shots and portraits.

This would cover most of your interests.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

bitpuddle    says:

Most of the advice above is good. It really helps to start with a budget, mix in any constraints, and see what comes up.

All of the current crop of digital SLRs are really quire good; some excellent, even.

Start with a budget, and hold firm. Between the camera body and lenses, you can spend quite a bit. Don't forget to budget for a large enough compact flash card -- if you decide to shoot RAW, you'll want at least 2gig.

Canon's 20D is excellent in most respects. My only significant problem with it is shutter noise; it is loud. Otherwise, image quality is excellent and the body is comfortable to use.

Nikon's D70 is also excellent, with a body that I find somewhat more comfortable than the 20D. The image quality is quite good, but to my eye, slightly less so than the 20D. At $650, Nikon's D50 is a great deal.

If you really want to be future proof, don't by any "digital" lenses: Canon's EF-S, Sigma's DC, Nikon's DX lenses. These will only work on cameras with smaller sensors. Certainly not future proof.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

tychay    says:

My issue is that in the group description says:

Equipment -- For all your specific equipment discussion that isn't technique-related. (e.g. Which camera should I buy?)

DigitalArtwerks [deleted] says:

I highly recommend the Canon EOS 20D with the following lenses to start:

Canon 50mm f/1.8
Or
Canon 50mm f/1.4

Tamron 28-300mm
or
Canon 28-300mm IS

Canon Speedlite 550EX Flash

and a good tripod.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

fensterbme    says:

DigitalArtwerks,

Wouldn't it make more sense to get a Canon Speedlite 580EX as opposed to the Speedlite 550EX? The 580EX can make use of the E-TTL II communication between the flash unit and the 20D. Not to mention it's smaller and more powerful than the 550EX.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

Ryan Brenizer    says:

For the record, I recommend tychay's camera.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

Boback says:

I have a Canon 350D (Rebel XT) and if you are like me, and have big hands, I would recommend that bit more the 20D. I bought my 350D 'cuz of a great deal.

The Nikons are quite comfortable for someone with big hands, even the D50. So go out and feel them up, before you make a decision.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

DigitalArtwerks [deleted] says:

Fensterbme...

You are absolutely correct. I got my nomenclature screwed up. I meant to type 580ex. Can't keep up sometimes.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

pangalactic gargleblaster and the heart of gold says:

i recommend all of the cameras above, so that you can send me the one you think is the worst and i'll get a free SLR to replace my dying p&S :)
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

quadrapop    says:

The reason this thread is on this list is that I am not a member of the equipment list and I am familiar with the quality of images taken by the photographers on this list and from that decided that I'd respect their opinions on this matter.

Though I have some training in photography (both at hiugh school and uni) it was 20+ yrs ago with film tech. So I want to know what people's opinions are who take photos I respect.

Sure almost every one has touted their own choice but in all that I've gleaned some useful tips and info.

For the record, being female, I have quite small hands (7.5" long) ;-)

Thanks to all those of you who have contributed information and advice on this matter.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

bluheron    says:

Wait about a week and go for the Olympus E-500 (just releasing now) You'll get 8 megapixels, really awesome picture quality, and you'll never ever have to clean the CCD sensor of dust.

Plus you'll spend less on the initial package (a 2 lens + body kit will be going for about $899)and get a 10x optical zoom if you get the 2 lens kit. (18-180mm lens).

I'v got smaller hands too, and the E-300 fits them really well. The E-500 is more compact than the E-300.

Sweet!
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

RS_Photography [deleted] says:

Personally I like the Canon 300D. The 350D (Digital Rebel XT) may be faster and have the 8 megapixels, but I have been used to have the full size Canon EOS bodies in my big ole hands. The XT was just a little too small for me. But someone with smaller hands may very well opt for the XT just because of that. Of course my choice was pre determined by me owning several Canon lenses and accessories already from my 35mm cameras. If I had been able to afford it, I might have chosen the 20D, right now I didn't because of the great deal I had on the 300D package.
Originally posted 81 months ago. (permalink)
RS_Photography edited this topic 81 months ago.

mclgreenville / memorymotel    says:

350 xt here. I totally agree with Urban. My hands are large and they tend to cramp after a while with the smaller body. I'm looking forward to a larger body / full frame down the road.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

mclgreenville / memorymotel    says:

Ohh..
2 nice lenses in my opinion.
- 50mm 1.8 ( $80 ) at B&H
- 28-105mm 3.5/4.5 ( $239 ) at B&H
Originally posted 81 months ago. (permalink)
mclgreenville / memorymotel edited this topic 81 months ago.

tychay    says:

I'd go try all the cameras you might be interested in that are in your price range. The most important criteria should be, "Am I going to use this?"

My weakness as a photographer show long before the differences in dSLR body choice do.

My glove size is men's small and I've used small bridge cameras since they first came out (early 90's). If I had listened to the conventional wisdom than my Nikon D70 with a arca-swiss mount L-bracket always on it would have been "way too big" for me.

I'm happy with my camera, because I was the one who purchased it because it fit me. I don't begrudge other people purchasing the Canon instead.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

fensterbme    says:

Following 'MemoryMotels' comment...

Another nice lens is the Canon 35mm f/2.0 $229 @B&H if you use a Canon digital camera with a crop factor.

It is a rather inexpensive fast prime lens that gives you basically the perspective of the traditional 50mm lens on a full frame camera.

I use my 50mm 1.8 more for portraits, and the 35mm 2.0 more for street photography, etc. I find the 35mm more useful for a 'walk around' prime lens.


The above is a photo I shot with the 35mm lens.
Posted 81 months ago. (permalink)

quadrapop    says:

Santa ended up bringing me a Canon EOS 350D Digital with the 18-55mm and 75-300mm lenses. I'm saving up for a macro lens, but these two lenses are giving me lots to play with in the mean time.



Thank you heaps to all those who answered my query - your opinions and experiences helped me a lot in choosing what to buy.
Posted 78 months ago. (permalink)

sessyargc says:

quadrapop i think that's money well spent.

for those with big hands and have extra cash, the BG-E3 battery grip is a good buy.

i have small hands and i still feel that the 350D *just* fits my hand, i still opted to get the battery grip. aside from the extra power, i get a larger area to grip thus better control over the camera.
Posted 78 months ago. (permalink)

geowulf says:

A large format camera with a LEAF digital back!
Posted 78 months ago. (permalink)

john.indy says:

lol. you mean medium format? to my knowledge leaf doesnt produce digital backs for 4x5 or 8x10 systems.

but, yes. ideally this is what we all want. =]
Originally posted 78 months ago. (permalink)
john.indy edited this topic 78 months ago.