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If you've ever loved an urban chicken in St. Paul or know a damn thing about ag or ecology

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sillydog says:

The time to act is now! This was brought to my attention from the Sustainable Ag folks at the University of Minneosta (over by the Midway), and this has got feathers raised in coops 1,800 miles away.

Soucheray has been the voice of cranky old jerks for years, now it's time to give him a piece of your mind (contact info at end of article)

"Joe Soucheray: Dumb clucks coming to Midway"
JOE SOUCHERAY
Article Last Updated: 02/23/2008 08:21:05 PM CST

Jinny Kolar lives in the 1200 block of Seminary Avenue in the Midway, next
door to a woman named Faith Krogstad, who intends to raise chickens in her
back yard and hopes that her neighbors will raise chickens, too.

In fact, her group is called Midway Chickens, which sounds like the name of
a band that should be playing at the Turf Club.

Phyllis Kahn raises chickens on what she believes to be her private
Nicollet
Island, but even there, despite the presence of a significant high school,
Phyllis, who is daffy anyway, has a bit of room to raise chickens, and the
prospect of Phyllis chasing them is almost charming.

And in other neighborhoods in Minneapolis, I guess people raise chickens in
their back yards. It is probably happening all over the country, as the
closer you get to the country's tallest buildings, the more likely you are
to find the kinds of people who want to play farm, among their other
delusions.

I tried to reach Faith, but she is out of town. Faith is a coordinator at
something called Eco Education, a nonprofit environmental education
organization in St. Paul. Kathy Kinzig, who answered the phone at Eco
Education, said raising chickens is something Faith is doing on her own and
urban chicken farming is not necessarily under the purview of Eco
Education.


I have that sinking feeling that we are somehow paying for Eco Education,
just as we pay for the Hamline Midway Coalition District 11 Council, one of
17 district councils in St. Paul, which is neither here nor there except
that the Midway, the once mighty Midway, is virtually a petri dish of New
Urbanism, trains, co-ops, councils, community gardening and now chickens.

Chickens. Chickens on 40-foot lots.

Faith Krogstad believes, according to an e-mail that she sent to
prospective
chicken farmers, that raising chickens is somehow environmentally
responsible and good for the soil and that it teaches children where their
food comes from, even though from many back yards in the Midway you can see
a big Cub store or the new SuperTarget.

Because raising chickens to benefit the environment is not even plausible,
there really is only one reason to raise chickens in your back yard: to
assign to yourself a kind of progressiveness, or enlightenment. Nevermind
that raising chickens in your urban yard is going backward, not forward; it
is the illusion of self-sufficiency that confers the virtue.

No, I haven't forgotten Jinny Kolar, 65, who has lived in her Midway
neighborhood for 40 years. She does not intend to raise chickens. Kolar
understands that Krogstad acquired enough names on a petition to get
excused
from zoning regulations and that the Health Department, which you would
think might have a position here, apparently will intervene only if a
problem is reported. Those who oppose the idea, like Kolar, appear to be
out
of luck.

Also, Kolar understands that the chicken farmers will share the chickens
and
that the chickens will wander around on their own chicken bleep, that part
being good for the soil, I guess.

But Kolar, who is apparently sane, is worried that most of her neighbors,
who do not meet at coffeeshops to seek the pretend burdens of Third World
status, are not going to be prepared for what is coming: the smell, the
noise, the filth.

"One of the so-called chicken farms is next door to the playground at
Central Lutheran Elementary School,'' Kolar said. "Will that affect the
kids
on the playground? I don't know. In the absence of a chicken coop I guess
people have been advised to just cut holes in their garages. This could
affect our property values. I've been here a long time and I like the
prettiness and stability. But that will all change once the chicken farming
idea takes hold. And I feel that we, as a community, should think long and
hard before we let that happen.''

It sounds to me like Kolar and her like-minded neighbors better hurry up
and
find their own coffeeshop. Kolar is the true progressive here, not the
Midway Chickens.

Joe Soucheray can be reached at jsoucheray@pioneerpress.com or
651-228-5474.
Soucheray is heard from 2 to 5:30 p.m. weekdays on KSTP-AM 1500.
Posted at 8:10PM, 24 February 2008 PDT (permalink)

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MNkiteman  Pro User  says:

If they can raise chickens then I can raise pigs, right?
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

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Marcus Metropolis  Pro User  says:

I wanna raise polar bears, but I can see how that might complicate things. Though it must be better than people feeding tons of seeds to pigeons and squirrels (and do remember that they do poop as well).
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

RB2K at work [deleted] says:

"Urban Chicken" there is no such thing. People shouldn't be keeping and raising animals for food - it's just plain wrong.

If you were meant to eat animals, cutting open a chicken or a cow would make you hungry - most people find it disgusting. It's your own natural instinct telling you that you shouldn't eat that.
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

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djymm says:

The St. Paul animal guidelines

There's no mention of permits for hoofed animals, in spite of the pot-bellied pig craze, and wild animals are similarly excluded. It looks like keeping a pig or polar bear is out.
Originally posted 52 months ago. (permalink)
djymm edited this topic 52 months ago.

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nordicteem  Pro User  says:

Do these people realize how much fecal matter chickens generate? If you don't clean the coop regularly then you can easily get over a foot of fecal matter on the floor.
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

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PDUB's says:

Out of morbid curiosity -- does this mean someone is going to organize a FlickrWalk to "shoot" chickens?
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

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Ren (WL)  Pro User  says:

I, too, was looking for the photography connection. I assume it wasn't posted with regards to any connection. What the heck, if it's discussion of urban homesteading, I'll put in my $.02.

First off, robertbrothers2000, your logic is specious. Many people find housework and changing diapers disgusting but they have to be done. If you want to defend vegetarianism, defend it as a conscientious choice or by health merits, not using off putting sophistry.

Second, it is possible to do urban homesteading well. Path to Freedom is an excellent example. Responsible urban homesteaders make sustainability a priority, living by example, and make good neighbors.

Third, this all brings to mind Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan singing "Surry with the fringe on top" in When Harry Met Sally. Chicks and ducks and geese better scurry when I take you out in my surry... (I hope it's stuck in your head now, too. ;P )
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

RB2K at work [deleted] says:

Waiting Line... How is my logic specious? If I cut up a chicken in front of you and handed you the gizzards to cook.... you'd be excited about eating them? It's not the same as sweeping the kitchen floor... unless you eat what is in the dust pan.
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

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Ren (WL)  Pro User  says:

Your argument is specious because you say it's natural instinct telling you not to do something. By that specious logic, a child should be left in nasty smelling diaper because it's caretaker's instinct is to gag rather than take care of the mess at hand.

If you want an eating analogy, with your specious logic, it's perfectly good for your body to eat ho-ho's and snake cakes and oreos because they are so darn appetizing to the senses.

Your argument is specious because it is flawed logic. There are people, too, who would be turned off to see compost in a garden. If I handed someone a potato speckled with manure or a few bugs and worms crawling on it, they'd probably be disgusted too. A cleaned up potato baked smells pretty good though. Just as a the smell of cooking bacon or steaks on a grill makes some people salivate.

Eating, like so many other choices in life, isn't just about natural instincts which are as often about wants versus needs. Therein lies the specious aspect. It's about making conscious choices. If you want to effectively persuade people, avoid specious or tautologous arguments. Vegetarianism is easy to promote without resorting to said tactics.

P.S. Many urban homesteaders are vegetarians, though not vegans, and they are not repulsed by cracking open an egg or having a glass of goat's milk.
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

RB2K at work [deleted] says:

Waiting Line... SPECIOUS, give me a break. Would you drink monkey milk, dog's milk or milk from a pig or a horse?

Doesn't it strike you even the slightest bit of unnatural for one animal to drink the milk of another animal? Would you attach your baby to a nursing pig?

Your logic is SPECIOUS. So you are saying it's perfectly fine to nurse a baby on dog?
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

- Lanny [deleted] says:

So what camera do you guys recommend?
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

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Bree R  Pro User  says:

Hmm ... what a can of worms! Let's see here ... hippies and urban farming (wtf yuck) ... veganism ... babies suckling from dog teats. This thread rules!
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

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kaizophoto says:

I think I'll go buy a chicken, slaughter it and photograph the process. It should be arty.

robertbrothers2000 - why don't you add some pictures you took to your profile? Remember to keep the horizon straight of your lettuce farm as I think your views are a little slanted right now. That's why you're on Flickr, right? Oh........it's not.

-someone who isn't grossed out by being an omnivore.

Can we talk about religion next?
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

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Ren (WL)  Pro User  says:

I have no problem with animal milk. I have no problem with humane farming. I do have a problem with eating unclean food in any form.

I don't personally see radical sophistry persuading anyone to your cause. Whatever floats your boat, though.

In bringing this 'round to photography, here's a provactive recreation of an infamous Tori Amos shot on Flickr. Tori had the provocative religion angle covered too. "God sometimes you just don't come through. Do you need a woman to look after you?"



got milk?

Apologies to everyone. I know it's improper to feed the trolls. Unless it's gizzards. I understand if an admin wants to nix this thread entirely.
Originally posted 52 months ago. (permalink)
Ren (WL) edited this topic 52 months ago.

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Paco Lyptic  Pro User  says:

Gawd, can someone please organize a flickrwalk in the Midway already? I WANNA GO ON AN URBAN CHICKEN SAFARI.

And it'll just sound too stupid for my wife to let me go on an urban chicken safari unless I say it's a group event - that somehow makes it more acceptable.
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

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Marcus Metropolis  Pro User  says:

URBAN CHICKEN SAFARI ! That says it all, i have my pith hat, trusty brush knife, and a wonderful excuse to sneak thru someone's back yard. Let's hope there not anything like Chicken Zombies. I'd hate to have them eat mah brains.
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

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minntc says:

I've got a friend who keeps a few chickens in south Mpls, and my uncle keeps a few in upper Michigan. Both are in small, confined spaces (as in, urban yard-sized, not tiny cages...just to be clear). Both are cleanly kept and produce more than enough eggs to feed families of three and four, respectively. (Their primary reason for raising the chickens is for eggs, not for the meat.) It can absolutely be done responsibly and sanitarily. Beyond that, they're not all that loud unless you keep a rooster.

And perhaps keep the vegetarian/vegan rhetoric out of the discussion, as it is a personal lifestyle choice and not relevant.
Posted 52 months ago. (permalink)

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