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If you want a sharp image projected by your flash, you need to stick a lens in front of it, basically creating a flash-based slide projector.
Using a transparency with no lenses gets you interesting fuzzy shapes, but that's about the limit of it.
Posted 54 months ago.
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You need a projector. I used to use an old slide projector--photograph the image I wanted to project with slide film, then project on subject. I'm pretty sure there's an equivalent projector to use with strobe, imagine it's pricey though. Maybe others will chime in.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Ah I did try a fresnel (I have a Better Beamer). I think it got me a bit farther away but still not defined enough.
Time to do some more research on it.
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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Airchinapilot edited this topic 54 months ago.
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I guess I can just borrow my company's unused projector and hook up the laptop to it. Kind of takes the fun away from using the strobe though.
Posted 54 months ago.
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If you really want to do it with a strobe, what you basically need to do is:
1. produce a slide
2. stick the slide on the back end of a lens
3. shoot a flash through the slide and lens
screeminee has actually done this, but didn't pay up for a "pro" level account, so the photos showing the setup aren't available to us anymore.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Maybe find an old overhead projector and replace the internal light with a powerful strobe. Sounds like fun. Might try it myself.
Are you talking about kookies?
Posted 54 months ago.
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 There is another way.
Strobe snooted though 50mm lens...
flickr.com/photos/uncertainworld/455957985/
some results from which can be seen here
flickr.com/search/groups/?q=flash projector&w=71917374@N00&m=pool
shame he's made his pictures private he had some great examples up in his stream.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Would this work with a hard light? Maybe using a cardboard flash cap to knock the size of the flash down significantly would work, kind of like the window blinds in the film-noir assignment....
Edited to add:
My thinking is that part of what you're accomplishing moving the transparency closer to the wall, is moving it away from the flash, which makes the light smaller. If we just make the light smaller, without moving closer to the wall.... Maybe?
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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michael_kleymann edited this topic 54 months ago.
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@gary, yes, cookies.
@jonbradbury, et al: yeah I think that is the way to go. Actually that is really fabulous what he has done. Pick up an old lens and make it a slide projector. Very doable. I just have to figure out a way to keep it on a lightstand without it all toppling over. And now we have a term for it. Slide Gun.
Yep, that's the solution.
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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Airchinapilot edited this topic 54 months ago.
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I've made this now:
Giving me this:
Using this transparency.
What I did should be evident by looking at the diagram. Basically, I put an unused zoom lens onto a drainpipe connector and bungeed this onto my flash. The Sunpak flash itself had a gel holder which I instead used to hold the transparency I made.
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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Airchinapilot edited this topic 54 months ago.
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Good work - I like the process and result here.
Kind regards
DWBell
Posted 54 months ago.
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Yes, the flash gun is the way to do this. I've tired with a regular slide projector and most hot shoe flashes can easily overpower the slide projector bulb. I've tried the flash gun as well, but had trouble getting a sharp image from it.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Lesstimeonlinein09 [deleted] says:
The flash will melt a regular slide if it gets too close.
Believe me.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Seemed to me that it only worked if the transparency I had was in the flash's gel holder. How would you get it farther away?
Posted 54 months ago.
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ok that worked very well with the lens cool,
there are an easy Technique That would help the the heat problem.
Use Tempered glass between the flash the the Transparency.
tempered glass doesn't allow the IR heat to pass through.
Real Projectors(film movie style) use tempered glass.
since you live in Vancouver I used to goto Broco autoglass.
they are cheap. I used to build projectors for 3d scanners and this is what we did. using a fresnal is still a posiblity. but you seem to get result great using a real lens.
or you could do a the Hard light source with the flash but use a small dot or pin hole around the flash. that would help with the uncrispness.
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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rodbotic edited this topic 54 months ago.
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Lesstimeonlinein09 [deleted] says:
Interesting solution, using tempered glass to block the IR heat.
I like learning stuff in digestible chunks, thanks.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Thanks for the tip on using tempered glass. I love that we can all bring our other experiences into building DIY stuff.
One other nagging thing is that the pattern on the flash head can clearly be seen in the magnified cookie image. (you can see it in the medium sized image) I suppose I can hack it out but that would spoil my flash.
Posted 54 months ago.
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use tracing paper against the transparency, the lens is doing the focusing(projecting) not the flash.
or shoot the flash onto a printed paper and use the lens to focus the image.
you don't need to shine through.
I discovered this when I was started to play with projectors.
I grabbed my 50mm lens and held it and a LED pen light to my mouth and projected my Teeth to the ceiling.
it was cool, I was thinking about Halloween at the time. hehe,
note it is quite hard to focus a lens with just your hands....
maintaining the Correct distance and adjusting the focus too.
I should do a few images with this.
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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rodbotic edited this topic 54 months ago.
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also lexan plastic works too. for IR blocking.
it's like plexiglass, but scratches easily. (not an issue with projectors)
you can find it at "industrial paints and plastics"
they tend to have small or short pieces of many many types of plastic for a good price.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Ooo very interesting.. sometime after Christmas I shall be looking for more experimental materials.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Thats really rockin' lightin', so easy to execute but nearly impossible in photoshop
Posted 54 months ago.
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This is not a flash solution, but I just got back from Ikea where there is a spotlight projector, "Isbrytare" ... was $49.99, now selling for $25. It uses a halogen bulb, but you could probaby adapt the cookie holder and lens apparatus for a flash using something similar to Airchinapilot's setup.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Interesting again!
www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10050674
Posted 54 months ago.
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Neat idea!
I wasn't have much luck securing a lens to the 2" section of the rubber pipe adapter I bought. Then I had an idea to stick a spare extension tube into the end. I used a 36mm Kenko extension tube which allowed enough depth for the 2" hose clamp to secure around the tube. Now the lens can be changed easily and securely.
Photo 1
Photo 2
Posted 54 months ago.
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The only new thing on the market other then a sketch projector for art transfer or a specific designed lighting projector is a EPSON (or other brand computer projector used in a business type meetings.
The good news it is a strong light source and even better news ...you don't use film anything... just design in Adobe if needed.
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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Wink of an Eye Digital Media edited this topic 54 months ago.
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Someone should make a video on how to make one of these things and how they set it up. Any takers?
Posted 54 months ago.
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@BrandonKhaler, that's more sturdy than mine. I have my lens attached with electrical tape.
@Wink, yeah, if you look upthread you'll see that I mentioned just using my company's unused projector. However, it's not as portable as a flash., though of course as you said you can just hook it up to a laptop.
Posted 54 months ago.
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ok I made a quick fast projector with the method I was talking about.
note it isn't as bright as I thought it would be, maybe I should have had the flash closer. or used a lens that was brighter than F4.5.
but anyways I am projecting my daughters toy through the lens onto a backdrop / pillow.
what I did for focusing, was I used a LED flashlight through the lens and saw where the distance from the lens that I needed for it to be in focus.
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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rodbotic edited this topic 54 months ago.
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Lesstimeonlinein09 [deleted] says:
interesting.
Posted 54 months ago.
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This is an interesting concept. What is the correlation between the lens' focal length and the projected image, i.e. what's the image size at 24mm vs. the same image projected at 105mm? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.
Posted 54 months ago.
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You are all insane!! And I´m very thankfull for that! haha
Posted 54 months ago.
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Here is my version with a mouse pad.
www.flickr.com/photos/captainxo/2164626737/
Posted 54 months ago.
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Love the hearts captainxo
Posted 54 months ago.
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This is one of the more successful cookies I've made using my inkjet to print out transparencies. I think in the future they should be laser printed as my cookies tend to smear with handling. I am using 3M transparency for inkjet sheets. Maybe there are better brands? Dunno.
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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Airchinapilot edited this topic 54 months ago.
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Sorry, just come across this thread.
This might help....
www.flickr.com/photos/uncertainworld/2183447974/
Posted 53 months ago.
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whats the lens for?
Posted 52 months ago.
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Focuses and throws the light farther. It becomes an adjustable snoot + fresnel basically.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Another one ..
I still haven't found a good way to print these in a reusable way. All of my transparencies that my inkjet makes get smeared and crappy. I'm thinking of getting them made at a printing house on their lasers.
Also, I'm still planning on getting an old 200mm lens to use as a longer throw projector.
Originally posted 41 months ago.
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Airchinapilot edited this topic 41 months ago.
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I wonder if you could stop the smearing by spraying the transparency with fixative (art store) or Aqua Net hairspray. Those things work ok to keep pencil from smearing on vellum, not sure about this application though.
I love this thread! I have an old film cam that I want to do this with. I can see now that I only need the lens, although using (abusing) the body might be the easy way.
Posted 41 months ago.
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freewheel510, the smearing is one thing, but the inkjet just doesn't make solid blacks. I will report back when I do a laserprinted version.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Some more shots I made. Same cookie gun but I tried a couple new things. On one I doubled the cookie by first putting an old slide that I had shot previously in as colour and then I put a new transparency over it. In the purple shot I gelled the flash first and then stuck a cookie symbol over it.
Posted 30 months ago.
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Chuck Loncki [deleted] says:
y'know what...?
i like this. :)
Posted 30 months ago.
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Nice pics. I made one by basically cutting out the optical part of an old slide projector I had lying around, but after I made it, I haven't got the chance to use it. Will report back once I manage.
-greetz, Gerard.
Posted 30 months ago.
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@air
After all the months what did you use to
Not melt
and
bring the display out at the proper light to be seen?
also you seem to have a larger projection
great!
Wink
Originally posted 30 months ago.
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Wink of an Eye Digital Media edited this topic 30 months ago.
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Umm, here is a break down for a very stealthy cookie projector:
www.juliusvonbismarck.com/fulgurator/doku.html
Video of it in action (last half of vid):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAX_3Bgel7M
Posted 30 months ago.
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@Wink:
-- just overhead acetate. I got a print shop to print it for me. It wasn't as black as I liked but I think it was still all right.
-- also I think it helped that I had that slide film between the fresnel and the acetate.
-- and I shot at 1/2 power. I did a pop at full power and it smelled funky so I dialed it back down and raised my ISO.
@tim-johnson:
I've seen that first demonstrated in that video but had no idea he was trying to patent it.
It is basically the same idea but the 'stealthy' part of shooting through an open camera. The cool thing is that he is also shooting through negatives or slide.
The negative or slide is a great idea because you can photograph a nice cookie shape in whatever colors and it is ready made. It would be a bit more expensive since you have to shoot the film and get it developed. In this test I preferred to use one I had already shot.
Originally posted 30 months ago.
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Airchinapilot edited this topic 30 months ago.
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If you're willing to spend a couple bucks rent (or buy) a Source 4, and get a custom gobo made from Rosco or Lee Filters (I think they do custom) or Apollo Designs. That's assuming you can't find one that fits your needs amongst the hundreds of designs in their catalog.
Note, in my post "gobo" refers to the theatrical/film meaning of the word not the photographer meaning of the word which the film guys call a "flag"
Posted 30 months ago.
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I think cucoloris is a good term to use to avoid any confusion.
Posted 30 months ago.
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dulgee v.2.0 [deleted] says:
try reversing the lens in the mount, and use cheap ebay uv filters for your different designs, you can even stack colored filters (found very cheap) to change the color.
Posted 29 months ago.
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I'm planning to build something like this soon having seen the original design, did a bit of playing around last night with various lenses and came to the following (fairly obvious) conclusions:
1) the type of lens used matters a lot - bigger apature is obviously helpful for more light but also a full frame lens projects more of the "cookie" than an APS-C format lens. Certainly the output via my 50mm 1.8 (full frame capable) is a massively better than via the f3.5-5.6 18-50mm at the long end, both in terms of light and the size of the cookie used.
Oddly even with a full frame lens I'm only getting a 21mmx12mm cookie section showing (just been shooting through a sheet of dots so far to count the size)
I had been considering a 14-45mm 4/3rds lens for this project but have now dropped that idea both from a light and cookie size perspective - old 35mm lens will be much better. Might even see if I can find a medium format at a reasonable price if it goes well.
2) you can get rid of the line effects from the flash by seperating the cookie from the flash head, in my tests setting the flash back a few inches solved this (basically allows the light to spread a bit before hitting the cookie). This does make the setup a bit longer and require a seperate holder but for me I think its worth it.
3) the focus is (again obviously) sensitive to the distance of the cookie from the rear element, I've loosely matched the distance that would exist in a proper body and that seems ok although I don't get sharp focus throughout the focal range on my zooms.
so far I've just been using cardboard and tape to hold the components in place. Next up is something a bit stronger - I'm planning on using a spare rear lens cap with a cut out glued onto a frame to act as a dummy mount so that I can swap the lenses.
Will let you know how it goes.
Originally posted 20 months ago.
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tkw100 edited this topic 20 months ago.
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ok did some more playing and have got pretty close to what I want, similar sort of design as Airchinapilot with a funnel and lens attached. Some slight differences:
1) for the lens attachment I've drilled out and glued on a rear lens cap, this allows clean swapping of lenses (although to be honest I'm most happy with my 50mm 1.8 wide open)
2) inside the funnel I've cut the center out of an old "credit card" (actually store loyalty card I think) and then trimmed the edges to get it the right distance back from the sensor.
3) I've found that you get much better projection if you put a diffuser layer between the flash and the slide to project. I'm intending to make a mini softbox (about 2x2 inches). This does mean that you also need to enclose the back of the funnel as otherwise you get a lot of light spill out the back.
Upshot - a cookie projector that you can swap lenses on and tape in slides at the right focal distance reliably. Hopefully I'll get to do a shoot with it soon and show you some results.
The one thing I still need to figure out is how to mount this so that I can put it on a stand. I'm currently thinking of putting a bolt through the underside so that I can use one of my double ended umbrella brakets - just need to figure out how to deal with the flash/softbox element (probably velcro or bungie)
Posted 20 months ago.
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Would an old polaroid camera (roll film type) work for this? I would think it would solve a lot of mounting issues.
If heat is an issue (I don't think you mentioned it, but I saw heat problems earlier in the thread) you could try this www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/90445-REG/Rosco_1010199120....
Originally posted 20 months ago.
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harry pocius edited this topic 20 months ago.
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I imagine the bigger the film format, the bigger you could make the pattern. Lens quality probably doesn't need to be that great.
A used 120 camera would probably be a decent choice.... just remove the back, place your 120-sized cookie or slide at the film plane, back it with diffusion material, and blast away with whatever strobe is handy, using a snoot to prevent spill.
Hmmm... might have to try that.
Posted 20 months ago.
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@tkw100: I want to see pictures of your setup and your results. Post them here in the thread please. Sounds like you are making some strides in cookie-ology. :)
Posted 20 months ago.
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ok - some very quick snaps:
1) from behind showing the "credit card" mount - locating the right distance was a bit hit and miss (to be honest I'm not sure its right even now)
2) side on - you can see the lens mount (drilled rear cap) glued on top and a sample slide to the side.
3) sample shot with a grid pattern - no rear diffusion pannel
4) sample shot with grid pattern - with rear diffussion pannel (a sheet of kitchen tissue paper in this case)
(on this last image I should point out that its litterally a tissue sheet over the back of the slide with no "softbox" arrangement, therefore I think that there is scope for a lot more light transmission with a softbox design including a reflective interior to that box.
Originally posted 20 months ago.
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tkw100 edited this topic 20 months ago.
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PS: in my design heat isnt an issue - might be because my flashes arent as hot, or it might be because of the gaps between components
Posted 20 months ago.
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OK - pretty much finished I think::
1) flash with mini softbox
2) main projector body showing foam pads and strap (both required to hold in place against flash unit.
3) full assembly
4) grid test slide shot
still a bit scrappy in terms of build so might have another go at some point, but its pretty functional and works fine for swapping a slide quickly with the 50mm lens focused to infinity (although I think my slide holder needs to move a fraction more towards the rear element of the lens to get centre focus spot on).
Posted 20 months ago.
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Did you find a reliable range for a sharp image?
Posted 20 months ago.
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not sure which way around you are asking this:
I'm trying to work with the lens at hyperfocal so the level of sharpness is pretty much consistent regardless of distance between lens and object.
What I do need to do is make another two credit card mounts slightly bigger/smaller than the one I have (being a funnel that will move it fractionally). I know from manual testing that this will probably sharpen up my projection a little but I don't want to mess with the card I already have as its in the "good enough" range.
Once I get a final setup I'll do measurements - but certainly when manually playing with the mount / lens distance with a torch it was fractions of a milimeter that mattered so even with measurements there will be a degree of fiddling to rebuild a sharp setup (but at least you'd be starting pretty close to where you want to be)
Originally posted 20 months ago.
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tkw100 edited this topic 20 months ago.
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as an update I did shave about 1mm off the edges of the slide holder last night which moved it fractionally closer to the rear lens element. I am now getting reliably sharp images accross the slide.
Having made this change its working fine with my 28-200mm as well as my 50mm, do need to play with the focus a little on the lens to get it properly sharp but its fairly easy to achieve with a few test pops on the flash.
so while my actual build is still a little scrappy I think the general design is good.
My one outstanding issue is that with the 28-200 fully extended its very front heavy and currently its all supported from the flash hotshoe which I think is probably a little pushed to deal with the torque. As I don't feel like snapping the base off the flash I'm going to add a mounting bracket of some kind around the lens cap/mount so that its balanced at the mid point of the assembly.
Posted 20 months ago.
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still need to go back and build a more robust unit but it certainly works (I suspect I'll keep saying this until the current one falls apart)
anyway just to round this off here is a shot I took with mine this week - personally I'm pretty happy with the result
Posted 19 months ago.
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Great discussion!
Just wanted to add from my own experience, that for solid black-and-transparent custom cookies you need to research the methods of making films for transfer to printing plates. In particular I used to use some in an inkjet printer which then made really great films for exposing "silk" screens.
Look in your yellow pages (they still print those, don't they?) under sign shops and ask for a referral. Many areas have a service provider who makes films for print shops so they don't have to do their own. I would expect you could get a 2"x2" cookie slipped into a larger job for next to nothing (six pack of Coke?). You could provide JPGs of what you want and ask them to slip them in as space allows. Over time you could have a full set and it wouldn't cost them anything if they're running it on what would have otherwise been scrap.
You won't get much more perfectly sharp and opaque than films used for making printing plates or screens. You might even have fun just getting scraps from a shop any time they have a film that came out the wrong size or is otherwise unusable. A box of donuts or other bribe can get you a lot. :)
- Jon
Originally posted 19 months ago.
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INTJonMiller edited this topic 19 months ago.
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Here's my take on this idea
Find out more...
Posted 11 months ago.
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What about idea to broke someones picture by a cookie? ;)
www.juliusvonbismarck.com/bank/index.php?/projects/fulgur...
And WTF is this? "The Image Fulgurator is patented. The patent is pending since 2007" from www.juliusvonbismarck.com/bank/index.php?/projects/fulgur... - must be a huge joke ;)
Posted 3 months ago.
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It could well be patented, or patent pending. You could not build and sell them, but you can DIY them non-commercially.
Posted 3 months ago.
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You can patent almost anything. The questions are, a) will it hold up in court, and b) do you have the resources to survive the dispute.
Posted 3 months ago.
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I see a reference to using printing film. It is called litho film and it is an intense d-max black with a very clear for white. You can have a file from photoshop output at a service bureau for about 10 to $15.00 for a letter size neg. Just cut it into the size you need. You could do about 20 designs on 1 piece of film.
Talk to print shops who still use film or try your local small newspaper printer.
Posted 3 months ago.
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My experience in the following link :
off-camera-flash.com/english/tag/fulgurator/
Originally posted 3 months ago.
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theoffcameraflash edited this topic 3 months ago.
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Inspired by this thread, I challenged myself to build my own DIY cookie projectors. I used 's method and materials.
Setup:
Result:
![Noelle and the Binary Code [16x9]](http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7053/6950890237_2f7e02b456.jpg)
Posted 3 months ago.
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