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Cool! I had a feeling this would pop up in 102... :)
Now I gotta find (or make) a nice background!
Posted 29 months ago.
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Silly question, wouldn't these be better called "direct reflection" rather than "specular reflection"??
Posted 29 months ago.
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It really is a specular reflection -- plus a little transfer area, since the background (usually dark wood in the examples I've seen) is not perfectly reflective.
This strobist post is a big help in wrapping your head around specular transfer areas....
It can also be really helpful to play with a 3D program. Even with a free application like Blender, you can play with different sized light sources, different surfaces, specularity, diffusion, etc....
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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ben syverson edited this topic 29 months ago.
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i did this a couple of weeks back it may prove helpful to someone. ( i think its a bit neater than DH's sketch ( no offence mr hobby) HEHE)
DH EDIT: This umbrella is going to hit your subject at way too hard of an angle. You'll need it much closer to the photog...
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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strobist edited this topic 29 months ago.
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Dude that is like CSI for photographers, LOL. Quick give me a laser pointer and some wooden dowls.
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John Leonard edited this topic 29 months ago.
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hmm... and if I don't have an umbrella?
Posted 29 months ago.
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@jwhairybob you'l get wet when it rains. sorry.
seriously David said "You'll be doing a photo of a person, using one soft light source (shoot-through or reflective umbrella, soft box, scrim, whatever)"
So you don't have to go buy one, I'm in the same boat, I might try my big sheet of grease proof paper taped across a ladder technique/cheap ass light source.
Posted 29 months ago.
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haha... i'm from Southeast Alaska... we get 100+ inches of rain and have never heard of umbrellas.. those are for weaklings :)
yeah, i guess i'll just try to make a soft *box* out of wax paper or something...
Posted 29 months ago.
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tracing paper is also good... just cut a whole in a box for the flash head and cover the inside with foil... then stick tracing paper over the front of the box and voila... you have a softbox lol...
i'm trying to find a dark backdrop to use... everyone i know seems to have painted everything in their houses white recently
Posted 29 months ago.
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Cool, I really wanted to try my hands on this.
Posted 29 months ago.
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Hi, I'm new here, quite long time reader though !
This assignment is really interesting, I think !
jwhairybob> Why not just bounce your flash on a relatively big surface(paper sheet, reflector, whatever you want) ? After all it's just how umbrellas work !
(excuse my poor english, I'm French, and not used to write)
Posted 29 months ago.
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My new Umbrella setup has finally arrived!!
Now I have to find a dark background for the new assignment!!
Posted 29 months ago.
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I know I shold wait and try to catch up bu completing 101 the first part of 102, but I really really want to try this!!
So, a question to those who know DH better than me (which is everybody):
When DH says: - a single light. Does that mean literally only one single light - peroid - end of story
OR
If I use a single light which both creates the direct reflection from the background and "lights" (actually, creates the reflection from) the model's face at the same time -
is it OK to use a couple of other lights for other elements? What I have in mind can't be shot with a single light. I need the others to create the "moment" cuz the model won't can't move.
Tom
Posted 29 months ago.
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I wanted to try out this technique, now I have an even better excuse....
hmm, headboards huh? Might be able to get the wife to agree to that....
Posted 29 months ago.
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"hmm... and if I don't have an umbrella?"
Then shoot your flash through a piece of paper. Or bounce it off a piece of paper. Or buy an umbrella. Or borrow one. Any portrait photog in your area has probably got some spare, I've got half a dozen of them lying around somewhere. Only just started using the shoot-through the other day because I forgot I had it!
Posted 29 months ago.
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@ cham128, I use a black sheet.
Posted 29 months ago.
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poppaJ, I thought the point was to be using a shiny surface, or at least a somewhat shiny surface. I realize you can still generate a highlight without one, but doesn't a matte surface like a blanket sorta kill the point?
Alternatively - I have a very light-toned background readily available to me, with a glossy surface (the light-green walls in my living room). Think this technique will work there? Maybe if I pull the subject a bit farther away from the wall?
Posted 29 months ago.
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I'm going to look at the department store, I think the plastic shower curtains are pretty shiny. I'll see what they have! It will just have to be held flat I think.....
Posted 29 months ago.
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or how about a small clear piece of perplex? They are cheap and come in different size from your local hardware store. I'm picking two pieces up tomorrow, one for photography, the other to stop my dog with his constant scratching/damaging my garage door.
When I suggested clear piece of perplex I meant it as a shinny surface for the specular reflection on a matt finish wall...
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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I Love Holga ('SLIM') edited this topic 29 months ago.
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I've used my DIY Macro Studio box as a soft box. It's just got a few extra sides that you need to cover. Same concept just backwards (flash inside box, subject outside)
Posted 29 months ago.
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@thonord - as tempting as pulling out more lights may be, this is a single soft light to get both the subject lit and the background effect. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. Read the post on the blog and really read (and re-read if you're me) the blog entry about the technique. There, BTW, is NOTHING stopping you from taking the picture as envisioned and posting it to the group - it just won't be the assignment/lesson.
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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Dave Schlier edited this topic 29 months ago.
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Hi - I must be psychic or something (probably the something actually ;-) ) but I started setting up and trying this (like a lot of you over the weekend). What I did notice was the following:
Light background = way too much light to have a nice defined highlight area
Reflection from brolly (ie flash facing away from person into brolly and bouncing back) = same thing. The highlight is way bigger than the smaller area shown in the posts by David and others.
And finding that darn angle is no simple thing if you've got kids who want to chimp along with you after every trial shoot! I reckon the teddy's going stand in as model while I get the technique sorted!! ;-)
Posted 29 months ago.
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I'm having the same issues as you...this is not as easy DH makes it seem, I'll keep working on it and hopefully get it right.
what am I doing wrong?!?! (^8
Posted 29 months ago.
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This piano is giving me fits. Check out the specular reflection.
Posted 29 months ago.
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Slightly off-topic question. As I am exploring this one in preparation of shooting with a real person, I've been using a cardboard cutout of Worf (this way I don't bore a human - he is a very patient model). Any idea whether there are copyright issues if I post one of these test shots to the Flickr group?
Posted 29 months ago.
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I highly doubt it.
Posted 29 months ago.
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Unless you are from Southeast Alaska, everyone should have an umbrella......what?.....oh, sorry. I actully tried this last night but got too much bouce back from the wall behind the camera. I also don't have a shiny wooden wall in my condo. Stupid condo.
Posted 29 months ago.
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This is a trial run using the Worf cutout (moderators, please let me know if you think I should take it down for copyright issues).
I used a Vivitar 285HV at 1/16th power into a 33" white shoot-through umbrella. I was curious what the light would look like with the umbrella at various heights and distances to the subject, so rather than subjecting a human to 25 minutes of me exploring, I used Worf (he is quite patient). I know this won't give me much idea about the glare off the subject and the shadows on the face of the subject, but it did help me start to get an idea about the specular light. With no flash, this was just about pitch-black, so almost all of the light is being provided by the flash.
The setup shot for this can be seen at www.flickr.com/photos/42849098@N00/1118148821/
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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PhotoInspirations edited this topic 29 months ago.
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Hi group,
Here is what I have so far. I'll keep at it to get the halo centered... Any comments or suggestions welcomed!
-Diego
and a shot of the setup
Posted 29 months ago.
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Um move further away from the wall or try powering down the flash and moving the subject closer to the flash?
Posted 29 months ago.
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Hi there.
I'm also giving my own diagram and view about this technique. But all in pictures and also using a mirror in first steps for better understanding:
Click on the image:
 
 
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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Quoc-Huy edited this topic 29 months ago.
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well heres my first attempt i think i may have to use a model for this one its just too hard trying to shoot yourself and line thecamera up etc
Posted 29 months ago.
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Hmm... I will need some time to come up with the right ingredients...
yes, rise the umbrella (have to get some stand) and lower the camera.
Posted 29 months ago.
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I still have problems to create a halo on it's own !!!?
Even at 85 mm (flash) it seems that I get too much spill.
Using the right kinda background is part of the secret I guess !?
At first I tought this is a piece of cake but his assignment isn't as simple/obvious ! Hah :-)
Posted 29 months ago.
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@veluart
i found the same thing i ended up snooting my flash aswell.
Posted 29 months ago.
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I used a very thin material - like what they make wedding veils out of - stacked about 4 layers thick. I like the size of the highlight.
Posted 29 months ago.
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I don't think using Worf is a copyright problem for this usage. I do think that it's better for working on the quality of lighting to use a more three-dimensional subject who doesn't already show lighting effects.
Posted 29 months ago.
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I think I understand what we are trying to do but I am not sure that I am doing it correctly.
I suspect that my big problem is the lack of gloss in my wall, but maybe I am totally missing something else.
Are these specular reflections or just a well lit wall with a less well lit boy?
There is a setup shot as well.
Posted 29 months ago.
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Well, here is my version. I was looking for shiny dark wood, then finally realized our dresser was exactly that. As I say in the tag, the light on camera right is a reflection off the mirror on the wall. Any suggestions would be appreciated, as this is my first time attempting this shot. Oh, I actually don't know how to post an image here. Damn.
Posted 29 months ago.
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@snorkie128
Go to your image in flickr and click all image sizes above the pic, then click on the one thats 500 pix wide. below the image should be the html code which you copy and just paste into the bit where you wrote the above, and the pic should appear.
Posted 29 months ago.
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ok well without having a background availble that was big enough when i got in late last night, i used my friend's desk just to try it out.
I was shooting a tiny bookend globe thingy and basically with a shoot through umbrella the light was too big for the small subject.
I actually snooted this pic and used the feathered light to hit the globe (and hide the book end bit) and create the highlight on the dark wooden desk it was sitting on.
As i said this was just a test/exercise of the assignment so I'll be doing a proper portrait when I can bribe/drug someone to model for me and i find the large enough background.
and setup
Posted 29 months ago.
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Is the specular reflection due to the background ?
This is one of my best and still not the way it should be, or is it?
I'm kinda of lost here
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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macmatos edited this topic 29 months ago.
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Attempt No. 1
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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I Love Holga ('SLIM') edited this topic 29 months ago.
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Looks good John! Maybe just a bit more light on the right side, reflector or something, otherwise splendid!
Posted 29 months ago.
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The only thing I found that would work for this assignment is my chest of drawers. I struggled with finding the right angle. It took a long time. I still don't have it quite right and I just didn't have the room in there to work out the right angle - Another limitation is my lightstand's minimum height of 48". Then, I just got sick of seeing my ugly mug. . . so I ended up with this:
Posted 29 months ago.
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Attempt No.2
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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I Love Holga ('SLIM') edited this topic 29 months ago.
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Looks like John has got it...
Posted 29 months ago.
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Here's a small helpful tip. Place your flash into position before your subject (test shoot without subject and find the center of specular).
Posted 29 months ago.
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I think I need to upgrade my model, but this is where I got to last night
Found it relatively easy to play around with the specular highlight, triggering the flash while looking through the lens - move the umbrella further away to get a smaller highlight, closer for a bigger one (with corresponding changes in the falloff and general wrap-roundy-ness of the light.
My big head appears to be casting a shadow on the highlight though, I suppose I need to move further to the camera left to fill in that space with my body or change some of the other angles. Either that or I need to be further from the background ?
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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Gordon McGregor edited this topic 29 months ago.
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Gordon: move further away, raise the umbrella and lower the camera and the shadow will fall out of frame ( i think.)
Posted 29 months ago.
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Gordon you just need to move away from the background. The shadow will drop out of frame...
Posted 29 months ago.
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My first try at a Lighting102 assignment. The only dark, semi-reflective surfaces I could find were a) a black filing cabinet and b) my daughter's chalkboard.
a)
I'm waiting on my umbrellas and PWs, so I had to fire an SB26 as slave into a piece of foam board, using an on-camera SB28 directed away from the subject. The filing cabinet required a shallow depth of field and some distance between subject and background to hide all the dents and scratches, and I wasn't left with enough surface to get my specular highlight all the way over to the shadow side. Still I'm happy with the picture, even if it's not my final for this assignment.
b)
I had fun with the chalkboard shot. I used my homemade lightbox, at camera left about three feet from subject and at eye level, to put a specular highlight on the A+ while lighting the subject. I played with the levels in Nikon Capture to strengthen the contrast, so I won't submit this one to 102.
I'll pick up some paint tonight and give it a proper try over the weekend. This is fun!
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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jwielf edited this topic 29 months ago.
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Having a patient model certainly took a LOT of pressure off me in learning. Having said that, I think that with not a great deal more practice, this technique would quite easily become second nature, and a setup could take a few minutes - without the need for the model until you want to press the shutter. Now to find a really nice background (some of you guys have amazing dark, rich-looking wood backgrounds and they really set off the highlights a treat.)
And I really like jwielfs use of the specular highlight to, well yeah, highlight something more than just the background. Great story-telling there!
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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josef_moffett edited this topic 29 months ago.
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So many problems to choose from, I'll pick one at a time to seek help on :) It sounds like several others had this problem (which makes me feel better)...
How do I achieve a "tighter" highlight area with more contrast between the highlight and the rest of the background? (ignoring for the moment that I should have used a solid background) the shoot thru umbrella seems to cast light all over. Is it the angle? background-light distance? ambient light? aperture/shutter?
Posted 29 months ago.
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Tuffer, I think if you move your light source closer, the highlight will get smaller, thus making it transition faster (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Posted 29 months ago.
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Something else I noticed - should have mentioned it when I posted earlier.
(This may sound obvious to some/many/all of you, so forgive me if I bore you with it) I noticed that you can use the flash off center to the axis of the brolly. So you can still get a lot of diffused light with the brolly while the center point or hot spot of a slightly focused flash is pointing further out to one side or other.
I mention this as one of my problems was not impinging the brolly onto the photo, and still getting the angles right (not being too harsh for the subject).
Posted 29 months ago.
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Does this count ? The background is a blackboard. I must admit I did this without knowing anything about the technique. I guess now I've to go back and do it the right way.
There is a single light source (SB-800) behind the model fired at the blackboard. I used ambient light from the window for exposing the rest of the image.
Posted 29 months ago.
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Thanks danny_kino.
farm2.static.flickr.com/1227/1124283218_d349bbeffb_b.jpg
Posted 29 months ago.
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Here's attempt 2 @ at the Lighting102 Specular Assignment .
I tried shooting from opposite angles for this one , umbrella on the left and cam on right, also shot portrait orientation and a bit higher than previous shot. and finally clipped white paper cardboard sheet to the wall cam right for fill.
Strobist: see setup image here - <a flickr.com/photos/emergenic/1128527443/
Am I getting closer??...Thanks for looking
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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F.A.R. FoTo edited this topic 29 months ago.
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@emergenic- thats certainly closer than I got! your equipment set up looks just like mine. makes me wonder whats off about mine. How far from the wall were you standing? Do you remember the camera settings?
Posted 29 months ago.
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@emergenic - very nice
Posted 29 months ago.
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Ok, so I don't have a dark surface. so what to do. Doh!! I remembered the second assignment in 102 about relative distance!!! I don't need a dark wall, I can make the wall look any way I please!!!
Using a white wall:
Two lessons with one shot!! hehe. Hows that for using what I have learned!!!
Posted 29 months ago.
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@Steve_Black...Thanks!
@Tuffer
I was standing about 2 feet away from the door, and almost directly infront of the umbrella stand.
Here is the EXIF Data:
Exposure Mode: Manual
Focal Length: 30mm f/2.5
ISO: 100
Shutter Speed: 1/200
Metering Mode: Pattern
Hope this helps...
Posted 29 months ago.
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I think the problem with the Worf cutout is that you're not really lighting both he and the backdrop (at least not in the same way as a 3d subject) since he came with his only lighting when that shot was taken.
To answer another poster's question.... I don't think using a second light to create your specular hilight is giving you the benefit of learning how to create this with one light.
Posted 29 months ago.
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Jojn-
You had it here:
www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157601430120525/...
But shift your angle a little and you put the BG specular on her shadow side. Much better that way.
-DH
Posted 29 months ago.
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I had tried this stuff a few weeks unsuccessfully ago in my office, but by jove I think I've got it. David's comment about billiards helped me grok it.
I draw an imaginary line between the centre of the umbrella and the place I want the reflection to be. Then I draw another imaginary line bouncing off the wall at an equal angle and I need to place the camera long that line.
I could't resist bringing in a couple of extra flashes to create some wraparound light though.
www.flickr.com/photos/paulophoto/sets/72157601460736200/
Posted 29 months ago.
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My first attempt at the Umbrella Specular Portrait assignment. let me know what you think.
Posted 29 months ago.
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Nice, Andrew. I think that's what we're supposed to be working towards. The highlight really helps separate the shadow side.
Posted 29 months ago.
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Well I think I'm getting there. The trick realy is in the angle. I'm gona try with a more appealing subject tomorow.
Anyway this technique is great to give volume to small objects too, like this vase.
Posted 29 months ago.
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Thanks DH I'll give that ago today.
Posted 29 months ago.
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After many attempts against several shiny backgrounds, I am starting to think this a project for shoot-through umbrellas only.
I can get the effect somewhat with my small flash mounted softbox but the tag requirements include the word umbrella.
I could order a shoot-through but think I will keep trying with the reflective one, recomended in strobist 101 and sold as part of the starving student kit.
Posted 29 months ago.
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it should be about as difuse as a shoot thru, you just can't get it as close.
Posted 29 months ago.
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Okay, so I can't follow directions, but she is a "person" to us and it really was a "moment" when I got her to cooperate.
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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lax9dan edited this topic 29 months ago.
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Ok. Attempt #2 I got the highlights over to the shadow side, but I'm not as happy with the background. :{
Posted 29 months ago.
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OK this is my first go around... Not enough specular highlight off the background. I am wondering if I need to put a snoot on the strobe to limit the light more. I think my spread is too large.
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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allan_campbell edited this topic 29 months ago.
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My first as well.
flickr.com/photos/7302939@N06/1133238532/
Tom
Posted 29 months ago.
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Obviously, I don't know how to include a photo to a posting, but at least the link works
Tom
Posted 29 months ago.
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@thonord: check below the box where you write and you will see (Some HTML is OK) :) click the link to have the code that you can use in a pop up window :D
Posted 29 months ago.
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Ok... i tried to take the specular off the wall and let my subject (my malcontent bass player son) carry it around with him... it took some play with angles and stance... but this is what we came up with.
comments please!!! need the feedback... thanks.
Posted 29 months ago.
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Thanks Eduardo
I'll try again
But obviously that didn't work.
My only excuse is that I'm old. Is there a book like "Flickr for Dummies"?
Tom
Posted 29 months ago.
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Try this link for information on linking photos in a discussion
www.flickr.com/groups/spectacular_animals/discuss/7215759...
for why you pictures do not show in a search look here
www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157601468199689/
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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allan_campbell edited this topic 29 months ago.
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Well Alan, Here goes.
And it works
Thank you very much
Posted 29 months ago.
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I had a go at it and got a decent result but realized I had my model too close to the wall after i got back inside. About how far back should the subject be from the wall ? I will try again tomorrow night.
Posted 29 months ago.
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Let me try this again.
Posted 29 months ago.
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for the life of me I cannot find the original assignment. It is not in the strobist archives, is it here somewhere??? ARGH!!
Posted 29 months ago.
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jeffegg2 wrote for the life of me I cannot find the original assignment. It is not in the strobist archives, is it here somewhere??? ARGH!!
It's here
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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UnkArl edited this topic 29 months ago.
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It's in the 102 index now, thanks.
Posted 29 months ago.
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I'm new to strobist. Here is my first try. I'm not really pleased with it, but I'll try again later. Hopefully I can find a darker surface.
Also, it looks like I need to move my subject farther away from the wall so he doesn't leave a shadow.
Posted 29 months ago.
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@snorkie128: This may just be my personal preference, but I'm not sure you're being light by enough of the indirect light The specular looks good (at least better than anything I've done yet), but it seems to come at the expense of properly exposing you.
Posted 29 months ago.
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so, here is my first attempt
i don't seem to have much dark shiny furniture :-(
the piano was the only thing, but I only had about 2m to work in (from piano to the wall) and I am guessing this is why I couldn't get the specular bit on the other side of my head (need to increase the distance to the background?)
anyway, interesting to play around and see how it works
Posted 29 months ago.
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I entered the third dimension with Picachu this time (as patient as Worf was, but a smile to boot).
I moved to a different wall - I didn't like the way the red wall was coming out (too bright a red perhaps).
Setup shot at www.flickr.com/photos/42849098@N00/1140992702/
I am feeling the temptation to do a "Pringles" snoot or use my grid spot to tighten the light, but since we haven't hit those in the Lighting 102 lessons (yet) I thought I'd hold back on that.
Posted 29 months ago.
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fairly OT:
A funny thing happen on my way to the forum...
ok, not really... So here I am looking at all the great shots so far and trying to think of a way to get my wife, children...or anyone else, for that matter, to sit still while I attempt this assignment (I really need to graduate from the Kermit toy).
...so I just realize that I've got something similar in my file already (albeit sans any strobism).
I thought I'd share until I can get off my duf to do this right...
The photo is of my daughter. Lighting was all available light. Key was a big window - and I mean 2 story church window, and the specular was from a soffit light in the ceiling.
comments, criticism, flames - all welcome
Steve
Posted 29 months ago.
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Ok folks, I'm so tired I can hardly write anymore - but here's my first take on this. I really tried hard making it look relatively natural while also incorporating the idea of having a dark-light-dark-light transition in the picture. It looks much better in black and white and the effect is just as visible in bw as it is in color.
Great assignment David, thanks!!
Posted 29 months ago.
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Here's my practice shot -- for the final shot I want to try and find a different background surface and a person, but I at least wanted to make sure I was okay on setting up the angles so that I could put the highlight where I wanted it. Feedback of any kind welcome.
Posted 29 months ago.
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Here's mine:
Strobist info on the photo page by clicking on the image.
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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kc kong edited this topic 29 months ago.
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Heres my attempt
Posted 29 months ago.
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Had to model myself hence the ugly guy in the picture...
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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StrikingShots Photography edited this topic 29 months ago.
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I really need to find another "model". First, I don't particularly like pictures of myself (yeah, almost all of my pictures of myself), but more importantly, it really is hard to "frame" the shot. I suppose I could just crop in PP, but I probably took 30 shots before this one just trying to get myself "properly" placed in the shot. I had to cut the top of my head off a little so that crack between the doors of the armoire didn't show. This is definitely a technique that I'd like to work with more. I found that figuring out the angles was pretty time consuming. Oh well, at least the model was patient ;-)
Posted 29 months ago.
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1st attempt at one of the lighting assignments. Info is in the desctiption
Posted 29 months ago.
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Attempt No.3
I love black and white...
Originally posted 29 months ago.
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I Love Holga ('SLIM') edited this topic 29 months ago.
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