|
Search this group's discussions
|
New development: Easy way to sync two Canons
|
I don't know how many of you guys read the photo-3d group on Yahoo, but there's a lot of recent excitement about a new easy -- and cheap! -- way to sync a pair of Canon point-and-shoot cameras through their USB ports. They're reporting sync times anywhere between 1/2000 th and 1/20,000 th second (depending on the model), which is pretty remarkable to say the least -- better than the expensive Lanc Shepherd controllers for Sonys -- and synced *flash* shots at up to 1/1000th sec shutter speed! Get this: All you need is a battery and a momentary contact switch hooked to two USB cables, and some software called StereoData Maker. And, you don't need to modify the cameras at all: You just put this software on the camera's SD card and plug in the USB cables. The software is not permanently loaded into the camera, so when you remove the card and the cables, the camera is exactly the same as it was before.
The way it works is that the camera loads software from the card that adds some new camera menus and controls. one of which is a "sync mode." When this mode is activated, it enters a loop that constantly checks for a voltage on the USB port. When you press and hold the momentary contact switch, it's wired to just deliver power from the battery to the USB's regular power and ground pins. When the software in each camera detects that voltage, it executes the camera's built-in programs to focus, set preflash, etc., and then it executes another loop that just keeps checking for the power to drop. When it detects the power drop, it triggers the final firing sequence. So, you just press the button, wait a second or so for both camera's LED lights to say they're ready to shoot, and release the button to fire both cameras. The sync is very good because that "tight" loop means both cameras detect the voltage drop at very close to the same time, and the firing process after that is fairly "deterministic" (not subject to a lot of randomness), so it happens in both cameras very nearly simultaneously.
Here's the web page with all the info and the software downloads:
stereo.jpn.org/eng/sdm/index.htm
(Check out some of the sample pictures of birds in flight at the top of the page -- the sync looks as good as any I've ever seen, in any type of camera. You'll see oh that page that SDM also gives some additional information that's useful for stereo, which was its original purpose before the sync mode was recently added.)
The photo-3d group on Yahoo is at: tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/photo-3d/
A second group has been spun off just for SDM at: tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/StereoDataMaker/
Posted at 8:55PM, 19 February 2008 PDT
(permalink)
|
|
Sounds almost too good to be true... unfortunately my old stereo G5s didn't make it to the list...
Posted 52 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Can it help synchronize the cha-cha method? I usually say "everybody hold real still now..."
Posted 52 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Roger, I'm new to stereophotography but I do read the photo-3d group and I must say this is the clearest, most concise explanation I've seen yet. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
Posted 52 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Looks awesome! How do you make up the usb cable?
Posted 52 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
There's a wiring diagram on this page: stereo.jpn.org/eng/sdm/synch.htm#usb
Basically, you just need to connect both red wires from the USB cables to one side of the switch, and connect the other side of the switch to the positive (+) side of the battery. Both black cable wires are connected to the negative (-) side of the battery.
Posted 52 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Roger, this is something special! Thanks for posting.
Posted 52 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Wow! Thanx. I see that Canon A710's are supported, and avaliable in quantity on eBay for only 189.95 each! BUNDLED with A 4 GB SD card! And they are Image Stabilized! AND they take AA cells!
I just purcased two to give them a try!
Posted 52 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Roger,
Cool, Thanks for sharing here.
Does anyone know if it will work with other newer Canon cameras now or in the near future. Like a G9 instead of a G7, I'd rather buy a new camera and G7s are now replaced in most stores by G9s. Same with most of the other cameras on the list.
Posted 52 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Neil, the CHDK firmware "hack" needs to be ported before SDM can be ported. There is a CHDK status page at chdk.wikia.com/wiki/For_Developers but unfortunately the status for the G9 is currently shown as:
"Firmware dump available, but uses a new OS that is fundamentally different from all previous cameras that were successfully ported. Porting to these cameras will require a lot of analysis and work."
I'm waiting for the A650is version myself, which should be available soon. The A650is has the same 12 MP 1/1.7 chip as the G9, 6x zoom, full manual controls, and a fold-out screen, and you can find them for less than $300.
Since those two cameras have a lot in common, if you google "a650is vs g9" it seems there's a lot of discussion about the similarities and differences between these two cameras. The G9 would be nicer, but I don't think I want to wait to see if SDM gets ported.
Originally posted 52 months ago.
(permalink)
roger_harris edited this topic 52 months ago.
|
|
This is GREAT news. Thanks for sharing. I'm really looking forward to seeing the results of all this!
Posted 52 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
I just took a look at the list of cameras; is the A560 as far back as it goes? And you MUST use the one for the correct cameras? My rig is 2 A530s, which don't appear to be on the list.
I would LOVE to get this working.
Posted 52 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
The new release was just announced, with some new features and support for A460, A550, A650, A720, ixus70/SD1000, ixus850/SDSD800 and ixus950/SD850. stereo.jpn.org/eng/sdm/index.htm
GtrGeorge: The CHDK site shows that there is a beta version of CHDK for the A530 available now. As I understand it, putting SDM on top of that requires additional tedious work, but if there's a CHDK then there will probably be an SDM version for it soon. If you join the SDM Yahoo group, you could ask the developer (David Sykes).
Originally posted 51 months ago.
(permalink)
roger_harris edited this topic 51 months ago.
|
|
|
Roger:
I just checked the site, and the list of the supported cameras, and my A530s are now on the list, with a tested CHDK. Thanks so much for putting this discussion up. There's light at the end of the tunnel!!!
Do you have any information on building the switch/cable assembly? The site also said it can be purchased; is there any info about where to buy it?
Thanks again! GS
Posted 51 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I'm on the market for two Ixus70/sd1000s, neat little cameras to start with they'd make an awesome rig with a CHDK. Some guy in a discussion group on stereo cameras suggested using red- and cyan- bodied A460s to make an anaglyph-coloured stereo rig. How neat would that be?
Posted 51 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
GtrGeorge, I see the A530 beta version of CHDK on the Wiki, but I haven't seen anything yet for when it might be supported in SDM. Have you tried that version on your cameras? (There's a lot of cool stuff to play with in CHDK itself, e.g. the motion detection, and in fact, it is possible to trigger a pair of cameras with just CHDK since it has the "remote" detection function -- they just won't be as well sync'ed as with the SDM version because you'll be doing in an interpreted script what SDM does in an embedded function. But even so, it seems to sync at least as well and probably better than my wired pair of Nikons. Send me a Flickr message if you'd like the script for that.)
I was showing off the motion detection at work today, and I think it convinced at least a couple of people to go buy a Canon just to play with that! ;-) I can't wait for the next lightning storm!
I ordered a pair of A650s when that version of SDM was announced, but unfortunately there's a problem with it: I can boot and run CHDK, but the SDM version won't boot. David Sykes has been trying to get that working, but no luck yet.
There was a guy in Europe who was offering remote controllers, but I can't seem to find any links for that now, so I don't know if he's still selling them. You might find his email address by digging through the older messages on the SDM Yahoo group. Shipping from Europe would be expensive. Anyway, they really aren't hard to make. I made mine from a battery case and a push-button momentary switch that I got from Radio Shack. (Look in the flat drawers in the "project" section.) I used a case for 4 AAA cells, but I only use three -- I cut a hole in the case and put the base of the switch into the space where the 4th battery would be, then connected one side of the switch to the spring that would hold that battery. The two red wires from the two USB cables should be connected to the other side of the switch, and the two black wires should be connected to the black lead of the battery case (which is coming off the negative end of the first battery.) I happened to have a lot of cables with the mini-B size plug, but they are pretty easy to find. (But shop around and watch out for some large differences in prices for any kind of cables.)
Originally posted 51 months ago.
(permalink)
roger_harris edited this topic 51 months ago.
|
|
|
Dayid Sykes got the A650 version of SDM working yesterday. I haven't had much chance to do any shooting yet, but I did run the sync tests. In 40 trials, the worst sync was about 1/2500th sec (0.41 ms), and in 4 of the 40 there was no detectable difference, meaning the sync was about 1/50,000th sec or better. (To test, you shoot a stereo pic of a CRT monitor while running the test program and then measure the difference in the scan positions in the two photos, so my four 0 results mean that in 10% of the tests, both cameras caught the scan on the same horizontal line!) The average of the 40 trials was 1/10,000th second.
This "hack" is amazing!
Posted 51 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Just got my half camera, a Canon ixus70 (a.k.a sd1000) on Ebay from Cairns, with bonus underwater case! Got it cheap because the owner lost the charger, not really an issue when I have to buy another camera anyway!
I'm excited!
Roger: great idea for the syncing test I can't believe I didn't think of it myself.
Then again: maybe I can
Posted 51 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Smallrice, the test program is from here, if you'd like to try it with your other camers: www.3dtv.at/Knowhow/Synctest_en.aspx
That's very cool that you got a good deal on a camera with an underwater case -- those are pretty pricey! I can't justify buying one, as little as I would get to use it here in Colorado, but I saw an interesting thing on eBay: It's basically just a heavy plastic bag with a clear plastic window in an extended part, which (supposedly) is good up to 20 m, for about $30. We're going to Playa del Carmen, Mexico, in June and there's a state park lagoon near there called Xel Ha where they feed the fish -- dozens of species. For the admission price, they lend you snorkeling gear and a life jacket, so you can float around all day watching the fish. I will just HAVE to get one of those bags and give it a try -- hope it works!
Posted 51 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
I have two SD800IS cameras synched together nicely with this software. They are still available on Amazon.com - and have the advantage of 28mm wide angle equivalent when set to maximum wide angle. Another good choice would be the A460. They are cheap, and the lens is way over to one side, which will give you a short stereo base if one camera is mounted upside down.
The software also allows most of the supported cameras to shoot in 10 bit Raw mode. - Separate free software is available to convertt the files to DNG format.
Posted 51 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Thanks for the link Roger, now I need to try and locate a computer that still has a crt monitor!
Posted 51 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
I'm not sure exactly how the test program works, I would imagine you could shoot a regular tv as a test. You couldn't get any numerical data, but you could at least see if it is working properly.
Posted 51 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Does this also sync the zoom control between the cameras or is zoom locked out?
Posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I don't think it does.
Posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
The remote button only operates the shutter. However, one nice bonus feature SDM provides (which the basic Canon doesn't) is a zoom setting read-out that's always on the screen, so you can accurately set both cameras to exactly the same zoom before shooting. (Another nice bonus is a continuous battery meter.)
The current version is a little inconvenient because you can't change any camera settings (like zoom and exposure) while the sync script is running: You have to press the Alt Function button to leave the script mode, change settings, and then press Alt Function again before shooting. However, there is a new version being tested in which that won't be necessary: You can shoot with the remote without going into the Alt Function script mode, so the only inconvenience is that you need to make all changes on both cameras instead of just one. (That version is only available for a few models now, but presumably it will be added to all the models when testing is completed.)
Another new feature will be that it will work with the Ricoh CA-1 remote controller (except that you have to splice in a second USB cable, or use a "Y" splitter). That controller has a half-press/full-press button, like a standard camera shutter button, so you half-press to prepare to shoot, then full-press and release to shoot. (With the homemade remotes being used now, you press fully to prepare, then release to shoot. Those will still work with the new version.)
The Ricoh CA-1 is about $25 from Adorama, with free shipping. I'm not sure where you can get a USB "Y" splitter so you can connect both cameras, but they are available. So, this is a good option for people who don't want to make their own controllers (although it really isn't hard to do with parts you can get at Radio Shack).
Posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Some links:
Here's the Ricoh CA-1 on Adorma, $24.95 with free shipping:
www.adorama.com/IRCCA1.html?searchinfo=ricoh ca-1&item_no=1
Here's the best price I found for the Y cables, $3.50 plus $2.98 shipping:
www.amazon.com/MOTOROLA-Bluetooth-Adapter-Cable-power/dp/...
If you're going to mount the cameras side-by-side, you'll probably want one of the right-angle USB adapters, which will let you get the cameras closer together. I got mine on eBay for $1.00 plus $3.95 for shipping, from this store:
stores.ebay.com/Global-DL
Then, for a camera, SDM will work on the A460, which is going for as little as $100 now, or the somewhat nicer A560 for around $130, or you can get one of several different image-stabilized models in the $150 to $180 price range (and up). However, don't buy a camera without first checking the SDM site (link in the original posting) to make sure it's supported -- not all Canons are.
BTW, side-by-side works fine for these point-and-shoot cameras, as long as you don't try to shoot close-ups. You should be able to get somewhere around 100mm stereo base with most models, which by the standard "1/30 rule" would let you shoot objects as close as 9 or 10 feet. To get a smaller base for shooting closer objects, you would need something like a Z-bar mount (i.e. if the lenses are not centered on the camera bodies, a Z-bar puts one camera upside-down to get the lenses closer), or a base-to-base mount. But I'd recommend that you start with the straight side-by-side -- you'll want one of those anyway (unless you get a Z-bar that also adjusts to a wide base), since the narrower bases don't provide very much apparent depth for landscapes and such.
Originally posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
roger_harris edited this topic 50 months ago.
|
|
|
Shooting close-ups side-by-side can be easily done if the mounting bar permits a convergence angle to be set on one camera. The practical recommended max angle is about 25 degrees.
Posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I've got my two Canon Ixus70s (sd1000) and a dual USB cable to a 3 volt battery with a switch. I followed the SDM instructions and downloaded the Zipped file, unzipped it and copied the contents into my SD card. That didn't seem to make any difference to the camera.
I then noticed Roger's comment "the CHDK firmware "hack" needs to be ported before SDM can be ported" and follwed the link to the Wiki. From there I clicked on the sd1000/ixus70 download and managed to download a file called "primary_sd1000_102a.bin"
Does anyone know what I need to do next?
Posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Did you write protect the card by moving the slider on it. That is what tells the camera to boot off that card.
Posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Did you go through the "upate firmware" menu while in the playback mode FIRST, then restart the camera?
I think that once the firmware is updated, that should load the SDM hack directly from the SDM files.
Then you go to the SDM ALT menu, scroll down to "debug parameters" , enter that menu list, go to "make card bootable" and select that. Nothing will seem to happen, but that's OK. Then...
Turn the camera off.
Remove the SD card.
Slide the "protect" switch on the card down (away from the contacts).
Re-insert the card (you can still take pictures with the card protected).
Start the camera. It should now boot up into the SDM mode at every start.
Kinda convoluted.....
Posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
BTW, I'm working with Canon A710IS's. The sd1000 could be more convoluted..
Originally posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
turbguy edited this topic 50 months ago.
|
|
|
Smallrice, you don't need the CHDK -- SDM is a modified version of CHDK. What I meant by my comment was that the SDM mod for a particular model can't be made until CHDK itself has been ported to that model. So, all you need is the SDM for the the SD1000/Ixus70. However it appears that there are two versions, so if one doesn't work, just try the other.
If you have a menu option to update firmware, you just need to follow the directions at the top of this page: stereo.jpn.org/eng/sdm/quick.htm
However, I think yout camera is a newer model, which doesn't have that option. If you don't see a "Firm Update" on your menu, then you need to follow the procedure at the bottom of that page (i.e. running the bootable.exe program on the card). And, as Neil said, you need to set the card to the "locked" position before putting it in the camera.
Posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Thanks everyone, now I have SDM on my cameras. I haven't found out how to get the cameras to boot from SDM on startup and have to do the firmware update every time. I tried locking the memory card but on startup it doesn't fire SDM, it just gives me a warning that the memory card is locked. The latest link posted by Roger says: If you want SDM/CHDK to automatically load on power-up, go to 'MainMenu/Debug Parameters/Make card bootable' and press 'Set Func'.
Although nothing appears to happen, your SD card will have been made bootable."
Any idea where the equivalent instruction is on an ixus70?
Marc
Posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
The way I read it, I think perhaps the card needs to be unlocked when you set the "bootable" option but locked to auto-boot, so try this: UNLOCK the card and load SDM through the firmware update menu option, then go to "MainMenu/Debug Parameters/Make card bootable" and press "Set Func". Then power off, remove the card and set it to locked, reinsert it and power on.
Posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
That's my problem, I can't find the option "MainMenu/Debug Parameters/Make card bootable" on my cameras
Posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
If you can not find the menu, then 1 of 2 options:
1 - your camera is one of the ones that boot off the card based on a card being locked rather than a menu setting on the camera, in which case lock the card.
2 - You may be looking in the wrong menu. There are 2 menus now, you have the original menu and then the menu from sdm. Be sure to look in both of them.
ALSO:
Version 1.6 of SDM just got posted, get that as it may smooth things out for you!
Another good new development for making the SD card correctly formatted and bootable, there is a new simple exe option linked from here (Windows case 3)
chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Bootable_SD_card
Originally posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
neil.nathanson edited this topic 50 months ago.
|
|
|
Maybe this video can help as well..
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlXc7LfED7w
Posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
When SDM/CHDK is running, you should be able to access its new additional menu by pressing the "Print" (also called the "Alt") button. (On my camera, is has a small printer icon embossed on the case, and it has a blue LED light in the middle of the button. This blue light flashes when SDM is booted on my camera -- I'm not sure if it does on the models that use the "firmware updated" method.
Are you getting to that new menu? If so, Debug Parameters is the last one on the list, and you have to scroll down to see it. With that option highlighted, press the Set button. The "Make card bootable" option should be on that next menu, and I believe it should be in all versions.
Posted 50 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Thanks for everyone's help, I now have an awesome stereo digoital camera!
One of the hurdles was that SDM does not like memory cards formatted as "FAT32" whatever that means. Once I fixed that it went fine.
Also for some reason my two SD1000 (ixus70) need different versions of SDM.
Thanks again!!
Posted 49 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Help again...
For some reason I had to reformat one of my memory cards and went through the process of reinstalling SDM/CHDK.
It all went well until the last bit, making the card bootable. The SDM/CHDK menu looks different now and the "debug parameters" menu no longer has the "make card bootable" options.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Posted 42 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Smallrice,
The place to post your questions would be on
tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/StereoDataMaker/
You'll get better responses there.
Posted 42 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Thanks Dan... while I was fiddling with my cameras one of them suddenly died (won't power up).
Bugger... I had a cha-cha Xmas.
Posted 42 months ago.
(permalink)
|
Would you like to comment?
Sign up for a free account, or sign in (if you're already a member).
|
|
Stereophotography /
Discuss
Feed – Subscribe to Stereophotography discussion threads
