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I also have some friends from Israel who think like you. But, after elections for the government, it seems you are a minority...if not the polytics that Israel government has wouldn't have such big support...
Posted 71 months ago.
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goplayer [deleted] says:
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Please do not despair, because despair is what leads to extreme irrationality. Keep your dream of peace for you and for the Palestinians and Lebanese and everybody else in the region alive. We are after all human beings with the same dreams and desires for peace and tranquility. We all want the same prosperous life. What ruins everything is when we start thinking in terms of US and THEM and stop thinking as WE. So let's join our hands together and say as loud as we can that we won't take this anymore. Let's reclaim our humanity and tell the politicians that we are sick of your wars and killings, we are sick of your lies, we are sick of you spilling our blood while sitting in the safety of your offices like Nero watching as everything around burns. Peace is possible. Another world is possible. I extend my hand to you in frienship and in peace. Together we can do it.
Posted 71 months ago.
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"What ruins everything is when we start thinking in terms of US and THEM and stop thinking as WE."
absolutely. perfectly said. :]
Posted 71 months ago.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree with you, what is not good for you is not good for your neighbours neither.
Posted 71 months ago.
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PAN..... saying I am a minority takes everything I told you and put it in to statistic terms.... like myself many others, no matter on which side of the border, people, persons human being with feelings, with hopes and beliefs... consider each one as a person in that way, and you might just did your first step towards peace.
Posted 71 months ago.
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Wars = humanity destruction
Posted 71 months ago.
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i'm not agaianist any kind of humans....but i just wanna every body to know that jews lived in palestine as everyone else before 1984 but i really dont know what was the need for bilphore's promise and also who gave him the right to give what he didnt have.....i hope everyone lives in peace but before the surrealist ideal lived there there was a palestenian familly his grand dad kicked them out of their home to stay in it....i'm sure of what i'm saying cause its history.....surrealist ideal call ur government for peace cause they started it with raping others right and they r still doing it till this moment.
Posted 71 months ago.
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sorry the date is 1948 sorry again
Posted 71 months ago.
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PAN: I dont think that we are a minority. The elections clearly showed that the people want peace. Kadima, a new political party formed months before the election clearly won on one single idealogical platform: The continuance of disenguagement and therefore setting the stage for peace. Its a crying shame that like all politicians, as soon as they get what they want from the people, they turn their backs on them, drop their manifesto and act just like all others that came before them.
We cannot rely on governments to act in our interests, they are too busy acting in mr Bush's interests to care about the wishes of their citizens. We can only achieve peace by forging friendships accross borders. With understanding will come peace.
My new group coexistence co-administered by an Israeli and an Arab. Its purpose is to allow interaction between the various sides of this conflict free of fear, borders and propaganda. Please contribute, not just by joining and posting photos but by contibuting positive discussion, promoting friendship and making sure that the message spreads.
Posted 71 months ago.
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goplayer [deleted] says:
Sherif: I am Palestinian who grew up in Jerusalem and now living in exile. The history that you mention is true. The question about Balfour--Britain--giving away other people's land is a legitimate question. The question that we need to ask ourselves now is how do we move forward? Is it "surrealist ideal"'s fault? I think the answer to this question is self evident. Jews are victims of Zionism as much as Palestinians are. I will not go into that here--the space does not allow for an extensive exposee. In my opinion the only way to solve the conflict once and for all is the establishment of single democratic and secular state in Israel/Palestine where israelis and Palestinains live as equal citizens. This of course means that all the refugees would have the right to return. What do you think?
Posted 71 months ago.
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folks - this thread's opinions place the finger deep in the iinjury - thiis hurts a lot but is a necessary home work for all communiitiies ini the region -
simply looking at the map - noone would seriously believe that there would a chance for a palestinian state with such a territorial defragmentation - gaza // west jordan valley whereby, additionally, the west jordan is actually a layered country where settlers enjoy the best (also water and transportation) infrastructure - it is not diffiicult to conclude that the (yet secret?) "final solution" (thiis is valid of course also for Kadima politicians) is cooking a salamii sandwich with palestinians and eat it slowly
I went on a trip 18 months ago across Istanbul- Ankara-Haleb-Damascus-Amman-Jerusalem-Tel Aviv-Eilat-Aqaba-Istanbul- during this triip I used to tell always the same set of small jokes and everyone laugh loudly ini similar manner when listening to me in all countries - but left alone use miisiles and bombs??
we all share a common deep human layer and we should diig enough to find iit and use iit as goplayer suggests - "establishment of single democratic and secular state in Israel/Palestine where israelis and Palestinains live as equal citizens" - I would be so happy to see thiis still iin my liife!
Posted 71 months ago.
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go player...i know what r u talking about and thnx for the message but its been along time and alot of ppl forgot about what happened...to solve is to forgive not to forget.....who's gonna pay the refugees bill do u think they can have their homes back again thts what i'm talking about....israel till now doesnt accept the 194 resolution and no country ever talked about it ethnic cleansing and nobody talked about it.... using forbidden weapons and still no one is talking about it....every human have to know all that histroy wasnt written to be kept in a closet.....how many knows about the 194 resolution.....i wish all the israelis peacefull life we r all humans...but not after all that history they r the only victims....
Posted 71 months ago.
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goplayer [deleted] says:
sherif, I know exactly what you are talking about. Nobody has to forget. Yes we have to educate others but also ourselves. Who will pay the refugees? Well I don't know that will have to be dicussed and figured out. Yes there has been a lot of blood spilled and a lot of injustice done but again the question is how do we stop that? How do we give justice to those who have suffered? How do we stop the killing of more children? This is what needs to be done now. I do not suggest absolving Israel from responsibilty but we have to distiguish between Israelis and the government. We have to distiguish between Zionist and non-Zionist. Not all Israelis are Zionist. We have to understand that. By saying that I am not suggesting that we forget no but we should not stop at history and keep repeating history lessons. That will not solve anything. What we need to do is figure out how to move forward and make sure that our children and grand children have a better life and a bright future. How do we do that? Israelis are not the only victims, many of them know that and are working to end the misery and suffering of Palestinians and Lebanese. I can give a long list of names. Those are to be applauded. However, we also need to talk to those that have not reached that understanding yet. Those who have been fed the lies and distortions throughtout their lives. Those are the ones that we need to reach out to and talk to and maybe reach some common ground with them. I know it is very hard and seems to be useless and futile effort. However, I think that it is worth trying because otherwise the killing and suffering are going to continue. The destruction of our society is going to continue too. Until when can we tolerate this? Again I am proposing to use the example of South Africa with Truth and Reconciliation. This does not mean absolving anybody from responsibilty but on the contrary creating an environment where one can admit and accept responsibility in a safe environment where that is possible. War crimes are to be prosecuted but not every Israeli is a criminal. I believe that we have to understand that the only way out of this mess is finding a way to actually coexist on the same land as equal. This means the end of Zionism and nationalism. We have to start thinking in different terms and figure out how can we achieve this. I am suggesting learning from history which has shown that there can be no military solution to the conflict and apply this to construct a future which has the promise of being better. I don't know if any of this makes sense but it is time to tell those politicians and war profiteers ENOUGH.
Posted 71 months ago.
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thank you for all the love in your thoughts you decided to share
Posted 71 months ago.
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sherif - its rare that I speak up to defend my country, especially at the moment but forbidden wepons? Are you sure about that?
Posted 71 months ago.
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Mike... I am more disturbed with what arròsalforn said:
[Quote] : "- it is not diffiicult to conclude that the (yet secret?) "final solution" (thiis is valid of course also for Kadima politicians) is cooking a salamii sandwich with palestinians and eat it slowly". [end quote].
That kind of, almost 'cannibalistic' ,statement take us 60 years backwards. Think again if your words accurately represent your opinion.
And if they do, I feel pity for you, and for us all....
Posted 71 months ago.
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@surrealist ideal
concerning my statement, conceding that is not written in a very academical manner, I want to point out that politicians in a country are not equal people of that country, this applies also to Israel - so meaning, we all are happy that many israelis, also you, would like to set forth another regional strategy for Israel as a country-
what can I say.. visiting the West Jordan bank is in deed like going backwards 60 years ago, to the Europe's post war life standards
meanwhile, europeans give some some miserable money to the palestinians that gets diluted in the corrupted structures of the struggled undeveloped palestinian economy, and americans fund a top of the line army for Israel -
I whish things were different
peace
Originally posted 71 months ago.
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arròsalforn edited this topic 71 months ago.
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mike...i'm sure of that 100% i dont wanna anyone think that i made it up suddenly but this from trusted documents....i'm not asking anyone to hate his home butfor god's sake let's forget about our colours nationalities religions and think of what happening since years ago till now....i can c that ppl here dont like history but it was so important for the jews in the past after what hitler did so dont know tell me its useless.
ppl know nothing comparing to what they c on tv go to the hospitals in lebanon and gaza strip and u'll know whats really going on...
"europeans give some some miserable money to the palestinians that gets diluted in the corrupted structures of the struggled undeveloped palestinian economy, and americans fund a top of the line army for Israel" whats going on with those ppl how do u wanna achieve peace...by making porn or what?!!!!
america is rulling the world coverring under the word peace and all they want is anarchy to get what they want "oil" ...open ur eyes ppl...governments r just agents for the 51 stars...do u wanna be one.
Posted 71 months ago.
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Sherif. Although I am an Israeli citizen, I am extremely critical of what is being carried out in the name of self defence. In fact I am totally disgusted with my countries actions. However, I believe in reporting the truith free of senstaionalism and propoganda.
Can you supply a reference to the "trusted documents" please?
Posted 71 months ago.
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alot of my documents r in old news papers but check this out and u can also search the internet.....cause if i had the time to develope three sites its hard for other 10 sites.
www.antiwar.com/orig/brooks.php?articleid=2957
jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2006/07/lebanon-claims-isr...
www.palestine-info.co.uk/am/publish/article_19125.shtml
Posted 71 months ago.
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My friends, yours truly has just been recruited, so it's up north for me.... I hope I will be back in time for peace ;)
keep the hope going, and pray for us all...
S.I
Posted 71 months ago.
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in solidarity.
Posted 71 months ago.
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My thoughts are with you
Posted 71 months ago.
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I hope you will be back soon - take care
Originally posted 71 months ago.
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arròsalforn edited this topic 71 months ago.
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mike...... what do u think
Posted 71 months ago.
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So surreal to think that s.i. is now 'claimed'..as if two worlds are merging. It's totally beyond me. Hope you'll be fine man.
Posted 71 months ago.
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Just came back from Lebanon and in one piece. :)
alot of conflict going on in my mind now....
a bit tired so I will write more about my thoughts later.
S.I
Posted 71 months ago.
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Fatimah . [deleted] says:
Please do, we'll be waiting for your thoughts.
Posted 71 months ago.
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Jews are victims of Zionism as much as Palestinians are. … In my opinion the only way to solve the conflict once and for all is the establishment of single democratic and secular state in Israel/Palestine where israelis and Palestinains live as equal citizens.
I could not agree more with goplayer’s sentiments. Seeing what devastation misplaced nationalism has wrought in my own country (South Africa) there can be no other solution. But the issue goes much deeper. In my opinion the time has come for us to rethink the concept of individual countries.
The world is one – it’s only us who are drawing lines in the sand. In the end all borders have to go. Maybe it is time for the good folk in this world to unite (as is happening here), and to collectively figure out how to bring about a better future – one where no one should be afraid to be black or white, Jew or Arab, American or North Korean.
The killing simply has to stop.
Posted 71 months ago.
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OK, now after a few hours of good rest and a warm shower I finally have some power to write a few words about whats going on up north. I can tell you this. only after going to the war zone you can truly understand what both sides are going through. continuance bombing sounds all the time, which don't let you sleep well much. and I mean every minute a big bang that opens your eyes from your sleep, so you turn over to the other side and try again. some went to bed with ear plugs... allot of destruction and mainly burned forests, the smell of the black ashes the spread everywhere doesn't let go. and I have this smell still in my mind after coming back to Tel Aviv. the smell of war.
I can tell you (as an Israeli soldier) that the amount of conflicts among the army forces is big. on the one hand we are at war, and when you are a soldier there is nothing you can do but what you are being told to do. each one puts aside his/hers political opinions and become one with the others. Nevertheless you can truly feel that even the army, which in it's definition put sensitivity aside while at war, tries as much as he can not to loose his head. to maintain his humanity, and common sense.
the army knows that his combat field lies among homes and civilians, kids, families and private life. and I can tell you with full confident to whom that wants to believe, that it tries as much as it can not to destroy that, and to minimise the damage done. I saw it happening with my own eyes. I have been there.
War is not a pretty thing, and by all means I hope that the cease fire will last forever. but we must always understand that behind each side/country/faw stand a man. a man with will to live, and a will for peace.
Glad I am back and still in hope that it's all over,
Surrealist Ideal
Posted 71 months ago.
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