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My gut reaction to "premium" is "overpriced and underperforming".
Posted 43 months ago.
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According to public registration records, the domain belongs to:
Andi Hoeller
UNVERKAEUFLICH handels GmbH
When you visit unverkaeuflich.at, it forwards to Unsaleable's site.
Posted 43 months ago.
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Not to be too critical but that graphic says anything but "instant photography".
Posted 43 months ago.
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Unsaleable? I guess that answers all our questions.
Posted 43 months ago.
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The secret is out.
Posted 43 months ago.
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Hmm...
Thought unsaleable had been a bit quiet lately - 8 days to go so we'll see soon enough.
Posted 43 months ago.
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maybe it's all about pogo...
Posted 43 months ago.
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Interesting. I suppose if you're the only game in town then the premium aspect is to be expected. At least I think that's how supply & demand works. Economics 101 was a long time ago. I've never had a problem with unsaleable. They sent what I ordered, it preformed as expected, and it arrived damn fast. I guess I was paying a premium there too.
Posted 43 months ago.
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Hmm, will watch this space with curiosity and scepticism. We'll see what it is.
Posted 43 months ago.
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Interestingly I phoned Polaroid UK a few weeks ago, asking about continuation of the licenses for most films, and they actually mentioned unsalable - I didn't volunteer it or even mention them. That was just a call center girl - but even so for her to mention them means somethings has filtered down the ranks.
But skepticism is best - it will probably be expensive and disappointing - perhaps just a very large stock of outdated film - Unsaleable seem pretty good at that.
Or it could be very exciting!
Or just that f****** pogo...
Posted 43 months ago.
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It's unsaleable for sure. Probably they'll start to sell the very last batch of films in direct collaboration with Polaroid, as they said in one of the last newsletter.
Posted 43 months ago.
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Keep an eye on it guys. It has nothing to do with PooGoo.
Edit: Well, not nothing. There is the "Pola" connection. But it is not, repeat NOT, about PoGo or Zink or Instax.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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Justin Craigen-indefinite hiatus (a group admin) edited this topic 43 months ago.
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I hope you're wrong Toycamaniac. That's nothing different than unsaleable has done in the recent past. Why a whole new website for the same old story. It's only truely meaningful news if it involves a steady long-term supply of Polaroid film. Hopefully several.
Seems like you know something St. J. the C.
Are you sworn to secrecy?
Posted 43 months ago.
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what justin said ;)
Posted 43 months ago.
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sure is sexy looking. I will say that I'm quite titillated...
Posted 43 months ago.
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Oh, you negative Nellies, you love to pee on everyone's parade and pass judgment before you even know what's going on. I swear, some of you won't be satisfied until Edwin Land rises from the grave, eats Tom Petter's brains and builds millions of Polaroid factories across the globe, that give away all new Polaroid film for free!
Actually that does sound pretty cool..
But it aint gonna happen so in the meantime, stay positive. Understand that good things take time. And this will be the beginning of something good.
Posted 43 months ago.
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bwah! :D
Posted 43 months ago.
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Bingo and a gold star goes to Toycamaniac! It is a collaboration and there will be a steady stream of announcements in the coming months (and no essex_70, it's not the same old story).
As a PoGo Hater in good standing since its first appearance, I've heaped my fair share of slag on that device - but I have recently learned more about it and especially the Zink paper, and even though some of my skepticism remains, I must now say, publicly, that my mind has been changed.
But, no, that's not what PolaPremium is about.
Posted 43 months ago.
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Perhaps the discussion could continue here?
www.flickr.com/groups/polapremium/
Posted 43 months ago.
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About PolaPremium, apart from what the man in the hat has said,
Yo no hablo Inglés, señor.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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Justin Craigen-indefinite hiatus (a group admin) edited this topic 43 months ago.
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Wait? Edwin Land is going to return from the grave? He'll have a hard time getting to Mr. Ponzi behind bars, right?
I'll tell you this about Unsaleable's prices: When they're the only game in town (as was the case for Artistic TZ - a film I don't enjoy but understand the merits), they're certainly more fairly priced than they need to be. Considering the volume they've moved through, and the dynamics of supply/demand, they're actually underpriced.
I mean, did anyone else witness the $300 pack of Artistic TZ on eBay? Or was it $400. People are willing to pay a helluva lot more than Unsaleable charges.
Do I WISH that TZ existed for $15/pack? Hell yeah. But here in the states, EVERYTHING that cost $15 ten years ago is pushing $30, not just film.
Besides, what I really want at this point is some new pack film to play with. . . I tire of Fuji's two choices.
Anyone else have a secret 'wish list'?
Posted 43 months ago.
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Dont believe high bids like that everytime you see them.
Unless YOU sold it for that price, dont think for a second the winner paid and received it.
Grain of salt people...
Posted 43 months ago.
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Yes unsaleable sells stuff at prices some think are nuts (and i agree some prices are insane)
Its easy to deal with though, if you think the price is too high then don't buy and move on :)
Different kettle of fish of course if you have bought something that was misrepresented.
I have seen a few packs of tz recently at buy it now $75us by that little weezle that stole images from the flickr artistic TZ flickr group and there is feedback so 'some' people are paying far more then unsaleable ever charged. I imagine unsaleable could have probably charged $75 and most likely would have sold it all.
Money makes the world go round unfortunately, and also screws it up just look at the greedy buggers who caused the recent financial crap that's happening..........I actually hate the fact that greed and money is so important but hey short of taking a rocket ship to the moon i guess we are stuck with it :(
I think any type of announcement is a positive....better then nothing upcoming :)
Posted 43 months ago.
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KodakPremium.com is launching as well...there will be a ton of new instant films for Kodak's old instant cameras. Part of that stock has leaked already: www.flickr.com/photos/e-coli/2927330195/
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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Tod Brilliant edited this topic 43 months ago.
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I don't mind paying for products that I enjoy and are endangered, especially if it means film in the short term or film production in the future... any film is better than none!
Posted 43 months ago.
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Yeah to be fair to unsaleable their prices were pretty reasonable if you live in the UK, I'm curious to see what they've got to say the least.
Did they ever get any ATZ, and we haven't seen that final run of Spectra yet have we?
Edit - I just joined the polapremium group and now I'm even more curious...do I need to dust off my credit card??
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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Rebecca... edited this topic 43 months ago.
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I would say, probably, definitely, yes Rebecca.
Posted 43 months ago.
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Credit cards at the ready, fingers steady......
Posted 43 months ago.
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more or less they buy the cameras by ebay and resale it for a lot more ;-)
Posted 43 months ago.
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I have Credit Card in my hand...
Posted 43 months ago.
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I got an email from Unsaleable today with the subject "PolaPremium :: The Final Countdown" pointing to the website.
Posted 43 months ago.
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if you are a member of www.polanoid.net/ there's a special "Polanoid Members Pre-Launch Information & Call for Contribution" page where it gives all the details!
Posted 43 months ago.
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@girlX:
polanoid.net, I'm a member but I nont found the page, link please!!
thankU***
Posted 43 months ago.
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Off topic:
Can we get to 10,000 members in here already or what? Come on.....
Posted 43 months ago.
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Ok! What is going on here?! I was always told "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." Now, this right here is starting to sound too good to be true. So, do I go against everything I was ever told and start jumping up and down in joy and screaming like a little girl, or should I just tuck my Polaroids to bed and realize their days are over? Hmmm...
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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KnowTomorrow edited this topic 43 months ago.
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knowtomorrow it's not too good to be true. you just have to be patient. there are solid reasons why we can't disclose everything we know ;)
Posted 43 months ago.
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link
Posted 43 months ago.
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Found the Invitation page earlier and have contributed. Loving this news :-)
Posted 43 months ago.
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Does anyone know if there is only a limited amount of available products, or is there possibility of some sort of continual production of products? Anything...anyone?
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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KnowTomorrow edited this topic 43 months ago.
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I don't get why this is such a big secret. So they bought out the last remaining stock before the factory closed, and now they are going to sell it at premium. There is no new film being made - unsalable.com is simply going to rake everyone for the last remaining stocks. Not sure why this has anyone excited...........
Posted 43 months ago.
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JRJacobs, obviously everyone is thinking that Unsaleable has taken the production of Polaroid films. We would not be excited just by the selling of remaining films!
Posted 43 months ago.
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Those of us who seem to know are from www.savepolaroid.com. Yes, we know more than we can tell right now. And we know more than what will be revealed at the launch. And there is stuff we don't know as well.
Posted 43 months ago.
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I have to agree with JR for a moment...
Its Unsaleable using their monetary muscle to squeeze the last of the green from the Polaroid logo before it falls to the floor and is kicked under the fridge.
While it should make alot of people happy, its still not "what we want" or "what we need". Just like everything Unsaleable does, itll be great, sometimes expensive for what you get, and be over quickly. This is not even a "shot in the arm" for instant film, its a grab and go...with no plans for the future marketplace.
Enough people who arent into instant photography have learned eBay can garner up to a 500% markup on market prices when the market disappears. Unsaleable is guilty of making another market if only by closing theirs every time they run out of stock, never to refill. Its free market economics sure, but it still sucks for those of us who care about instant photography.
Its going to be a sad day when true users find out about this "Premium" website, too late to actually purchase anything at a "reasonable" price.
Oh, and in all honesty, who really wants a "new 600 camera"? It wont be anything but the crap put out in the last 5-10yrs. Im quite sure the molds and machines that produced the automatic packfilm cameras and the SX70s cameras are long gone. Unless someone like NPC is taking another crack at it, dont hold your breathe....hold onto your current cameras tightly.
Posted 43 months ago.
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It does say quite a bit when the parties involved in "polapremium" state that "polapremium will be linked from all official Polaroid websites."
That kinda gives me the impression that it's more than just leftover film and old, used cameras that they bought off ebay to resell...Who knows, though (well, I guess some do). For the rest of us, we'll have to wait and see. Hope it's good and worth the hype.
Posted 43 months ago.
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how are you so sure option 8?
So by not supporting whats left of the market, and those who are proving its financial viability, somehow that will help replace instant film?
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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traskblueribbon edited this topic 43 months ago.
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Option8 -- JR : You two are among my true blue Pola heroes.
I want to tell you both that I'm as big a skeptic as either of you. That said, what I can say is that there is REAL and POWERFUL dedication to making this more than just a temporary shot in the arm. What you see when the site launches is only part of the efforts. I don't know everything, but I know enough to say VERY LOUDLY:
SUPPORTING POLAPREMIUM SUPPORTS CONTINUED PRODUCTION OF POLAROID FILMS.
I can't say it strongly enough. At present, it is our only hope. Will it be perfect? No. Not at first. But it's the only, only, only shot we have. And I can also say that, were this a short-term profit-only venture, Unsaleable and co. could have chosen a more profitable way to do this. That's all I can say and you'll just have to trust that I'm not bullshitting you.
Posted 43 months ago.
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As an administrator, ordained minister, atheist, Canadian, son, husband, and brother, I can say without any hesitation or hyperbole that Tod is telling the truth.
This might not be "what we want", but it is a hell of a lot better than the alternative, which will dwindle down to nothing over time. It is, quite literally, the best option short of Bill Gates buying all the equipment and locating it somewhere with low labour costs and free shipping worldwide. It is as close as you will ever get to "what we want", and it would be damned foolish to not fight to make it succeed, whether you're on the front lines like Dave Bias and company, or in the trenches buying and shooting film and spreading the gospel.
I love instant film, and I fight like a son of a bitch for what I love. I will be fighting tooth & nail to support not just savepolaroid.com in every way I can, but PolaPremium as well because it represents the best possibility of me introducing my nephews & nieces to instant film someday and the best possibility of someday taking polaroids of cute nurses' bottoms in the retirement home.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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Justin Craigen-indefinite hiatus (a group admin) edited this topic 43 months ago.
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On what bases are Tod and Saint Justin -- uh -- justifying support of PolaPremium, especially when it's not clear what it will be offering, or in which direction it will go? Or have I missed something?
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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queermountainman edited this topic 43 months ago.
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@QMM - Pssst. It's a "secret". Don't feel too left out. I don't know the handshake either.
Seriously, let's hope that by supporting PP we'll have some hope of seeing Polaroid films manufactured again. The stale chemistry of TZ Artistic was about a 6 on the scale of 10. The price per shot ratio dropped it to a 4 or 5. Better than nothing but certainly not like the original recipe.
Posted 43 months ago.
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so how come some of you know more than the rest of us, but won't share it with us? if savepolaroid.com is in the know because of some colaboration with unsaleable.com (and polapremium.com), it kind of defeats the purpose of savepolaroid.com. isn't savepolaroid.com supposed to be a voice and representative for all polaroid users who are trying to save instant film? if so, why hold back information that will potentially influence our buying decisions?
to be honest, i'm not holding my breath. i've stock piled enough instant film to last me a few years and i've found myself drastically cutting back on the amount of polaroids i've been shooting, so i'm not that anxious to find out what the big deal is. it just kind of feels like unsaleable.com now has savepolaroid.com in pocket by making them privy to insider info that they can't share with the community. they now have a marketing department that they don't have to pay because savepolaroid.com is building all the buzz free of charge.
Posted 43 months ago.
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how about instead of jumping to conclusions and complaining about something we know nothing about, we just wait patiently without bitching? can we all do that for once? all the negativity! complain, complain, complain. you whiners should be happy any progress is being made. it's better than nothing!
Posted 43 months ago.
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I must say this is all jolly exciting!!! I can barely keep my tea down. :)
Posted 43 months ago.
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@revivify... You're right in principle, but Unsaleable has (in my opinion) been rather more interested in making money than it supporting the Polafreak community.
Posted 43 months ago.
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i heart you! listen to her! *nods*
Posted 43 months ago.
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@QMM, I would remind you that Unsaleable are a European company paying European prices for the film. States side they may appear expensive compared to what Polaroid charged, but I assume Polaroid received trade/tax breaks when importing film from the Netherlands and Mexico, that had been manufactured with negatives etc made in the USA.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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gliesh edited this topic 43 months ago.
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Im glad this is another chance for people to continue to use instant films and Polaroid equipment, but like I said, its not a solution. Its not even a band aid.
Whether this is linked from Polaroid.com (who cares about that, the site sucks) and any other place is pure marketing, not nostalgia.
We all know anything they will sell, will be limited.
We all know anything they sell will sell to some users but more than likely, to more sellers than anything.
Once sold out, everything will pop up on eBay for a huge markup.
Thats a free market.
Im not saying its bad to have this "new opportunity to show the commercial world and corporations that people still want instant photography", quite the opposite. Its just NOT going to do anything for anyone but Unsaleable and those who resell.
The happy truth is, YAY more instant stuff, but the sad truth is this is not going to do jack squat for any of us. No matter what, they WILL SELL OUT. Since thats a guarantee, it doesnt matter if you think this shows "them" that instant photography is worth saving. It just doesnt matter.
Itll all sell out, theyll make money and move on. This does nothing for instant photography's future. And thats what I am truly interested in.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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Option8 (a group admin) edited this topic 43 months ago.
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guess we'll find out for sure in about 600,000 seconds. or a week.
Posted 43 months ago.
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I've got to believe that unsaleable/polapremium is at least a little passionate about Polaroid. Yes, they do make a profit. Yes, it's expensive to have it shipped to the US. That's business. If their sole interest was cash they could easily just sell their supply through the "big internet flea market" and make even more money. Their prices are fair given the current state of the market and in order to continue being able to offer that supply they must make money. I'm confident that people like Saint Justin the Canadian, anniebee, Tod Brilliant, etc. really do know something. Something good. I have faith. Now I need cash.
Posted 43 months ago.
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Option8: "This does nothing for instant photography's future. And thats what I am truly interested in. "
Thats what the folks at Polapremium are interested in, lets help make it happen!
Posted 43 months ago.
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The thing about Unsaleable is this:
Yeah, it gets expensive to ship outside of Europe. There's also the exchange rate between the dollar and the euro. Doing group orders, provided people can agree on who to ship the whole order to, can take some of that sting out.
If the people in charge there weren't passionate about instant film, it wouldn't be one of the cheapest places in Europe to get film from. The prices would be as inflated as Lomography's prices, bless their little hearts.
Just hang in there, don't give up yet. There's some good, even great stuff coming down the pipes. The future, while not set in stone, is not bleak.
Yes, SavePolaroid has some of the inside scoop. Why? BECAUSE SAVEPOLAROID ALREADY EXISTED. There is already a very visible mechanism of very talented, very passionate people in place stateside. Why not see if SP would be willing to help get the word out? They would been stupid, frankly, not to come to us with whispers in our ears asking for help. And because we love film so much (to be honest...what has anyone else really done that compares? not that other efforts are irrelevant, but from what I've seen SavePolaroid is the largest, most visible, and most effective outside of Europe) we are volunteering for this.
Don't like it? Then do what Revivify suggests—zip it, and sit back and see what happens. We might be able to get this done without you but we would rather have everybody's help when the time comes to make the big pushes.
Besides...if everything succeeds like we think it can and hope it will, how nice will that feel knowing you played any kind of part in making it happen?
Posted 43 months ago.
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by UK standards Unsaleable have always been pretty competitive - if not the same. 11 quid for 600 film here. That's what, 15 or 16 dollars at the mo?
Posted 43 months ago.
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well, they pretty much tell you exactly what it is if you are a polanoid member. i'm curious about the available film types. type 80s all the way!
Posted 43 months ago.
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Whickus - We don't know everything and we're saying as much as we possibly can not just to get you excited (which we all want) but to relate as much as we possibly can. Ummm..that's awkwardly put. What I mean is, we don't know every last detail, but what we know is exciting and, yes, you are more or less absolutely right. SavePolaroid.com is a free marketing vehicle for instant film, always has been, really. Who profits, so long as they aren't turning their monies back into genocidal regimes is of little importance. What matters is continued film production.
Option8 - You cannot say that there will never, ever be a continuous supply of instant film. There is a chance. A great chance? No. But like I said, this new site is working on exactly that.
I ask you all to consider for a moment one question:
What makes the most business sense for Unsaleable?
A) Produce a small batch of film that will sell out at high prices, but low margins, in a short period...then walk away and close the doors.
OR
B) Fight tooth and nail for continued production run of the materials upon which your business model depends?
If you answered A, then you are mistaking the Unsaleable people as business neophytes who have faked their Pola-passion for YEARS.
If you answered B, then you should have simultaneously had a Eureka moment/seen the light.
Posted 43 months ago.
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"type 80s all the way! "
Yes indeed !!!
But as long as this isn't some sort of digital printer (regardless of how cool the technology is) I'll be happy. The fact that people are using the term "film" here is encouraging.
Posted 43 months ago.
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And before you think I'm kissing Unsaleable's ass, please take a moment to go back and read my scathing criticisms of Artistic TZ performance as well as my issues with the price points of the utterly unreliable 680 and 690 gear for sale at the site.
I call it like I see it. I'm a shooter, nothing more.
Posted 43 months ago.
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i've never had any particular issue with unsaleable other than shipping cost to the US. and i haven't had any problems finding good film deals on ebay, so i haven't had any need for them other than chocolate so far... but i do think the camera prices are outrageous. but if someone wants to pay it, why not.
i am curious about what they will have available at the new polapremium site, but i'd hate to see a feeding frenzy and all the interesting stuff disappears within 2 hours of the site opening.
looks like they will offer both pack and integral:
polanoid.net/div/premium_invitation
they say 'keep this a secret". i hardy believe that was their intention.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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moominsean edited this topic 43 months ago.
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There are these awesome houses near my place that have awesome views over the river. I really want to live in them, but can't afford the $1m (minimum) price tag. The way I see it I have three options:
1. Complain continuously and hope the right people hear and the prices drop.
2. Realise that demand and supply control price and save like a mofo.
3. Make do with what I have.
Anyhow, after thinking that the unsaleable bashing had let up for a second, good to see things getting back to normal around here!
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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max.veenhuyzen edited this topic 43 months ago.
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First Fuji announced that they will be making their Instax film available in the U.S. and now PolaPremium will be online.
DID CHRISTMAS COME EARLY OR WHAT?
I've bought film from unsaleable and would gladly buy from them again. Packaging, customer service, shipping,etc. - all first rate.
Posted 43 months ago.
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Also, more big news:
Production of the Polaroid 800 is being resumed in Boston, with roll film production slated to be reintroduce in Spring 2009. Final design tweaks on the revamped Swinger, the roll film king, are being made in time for Xmas next year.
Posted 43 months ago.
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Ha!
Posted 43 months ago.
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Andi Hoeller is the guy who deals with customer communication with Unsaleable. And the email did come from Unsaleable.
We shall see soon enough I'm sure!
Posted 43 months ago.
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Someone put it this way: When people are peddling hope, it's time to clench your hands over your wallet.
How come people are sounding like this is the only shot? Fuji is still in the instant film business, is it not?
Oh the days when I could buy 5 packs of Pola 600 at Costco for $45. I wonder if it's gonna be better than that.
And I don't mind the whiners. Given that they're not in on the big secret, their whining is completely understandable. Oh wait... that would be me.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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dune.hiker edited this topic 43 months ago.
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Last night i had a dream, or maybe it was that tab i swallowed....Anyway A container ship loaded with machinery from the polaroid factories arrived in china, the equipment was set up and film started to flow!
Dream or trip, either way its a nice vision ;)
Ok I'm making that up but am i going way to far on the possibilities here?
Posted 43 months ago.
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"We are very proud to inform you about the fact that we could persuade the Polaroid management to produce an outstanding amount of breathtaking film, before closing down their factories.
Many of these films are completely new products, never produced before, high quality material, hand assembled during the last production runs in Mexico (last packfilm factory) as well as in Enschede (last integral film factory)."
So new factory in China may be a dream or trip after all.
Posted 43 months ago.
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600 film is still only $11/pack....don't understand why you guys complain aboot (for my Canadian friends) high 600 prices.
Posted 43 months ago.
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is anyone shunning fuji here? no.
Posted 43 months ago.
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I don't think anyone can really be accused of complaining when we have no idea what's really going on.
We also can't really support something that we know nothing about.
When we find out the actual details and still complain, then tell us to shut up.
You have to expect that people are going to get anxious and want to know what's going on when there is a large group of people here who are being all cryptic.
I know you guys obviously can't say anything but you can't expect other people not to get antsy when you are dangling a carrot.
I believe you lovely reputable ones and trust that something good is coming.
Posted 43 months ago.
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I did not say people here were shunning Fuji. (Fuji is our friend! Helloooo Fuji, are you listening out there?!) I was just noting the present tone of those who are in the know.
Posted 43 months ago.
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$11 a pack for 600 film? Surely you jest?
Posted 43 months ago.
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$11 a pack for 600 film? Surely you jest?
Maybe it's a tease. That is soooo cruel.
Posted 43 months ago.
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do you guys remember what happened for all last unsaleable sell-out?
after 1 hour or so everything was gone! some people didn't even have the time to realise there was something out there to buy!
so if the film stock they will propose is somehow limited, as it seems from their statement in the website, it will be a huge delusion.
on the other hand i don't understand all this polapremium thing: we have unsaleable (which is very good i think) and polanoid.
what would be the need of a new store/gallery if this was something time-limited?
anyway let's see. so far i am kind of glad for the chance to have our polaroids in polanoid presented in polapremium :)
Posted 43 months ago.
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there is a story abut Unsaleable, they liked to have the 100% sell right for the TZ Artistic film,.... polaroid said no.because they like to give the film to all sellers! so they did not sell at all this film !! what do you think?
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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4am-4pm edited this topic 43 months ago.
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Unsaleable appears to be the sort of business that's in business only to make money. They're opportunistic. They want to turn a buck, but don't care about the long term.
Posted 43 months ago.
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I wish 600 was $11 a pack.
I wish I had a money tree.
Posted 43 months ago.
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I enjoy this and several other Polaroid-oriented groups, but I'm disappointed at how apparent insiders are teasing the rest of us with information. I don't appreciate being made to feel as if I'm back in high school and not one of the cool kids.
If this selective release of information is an attempt to create buyer anticipation, it sure isn't working with me. And if it isn't planned, then leaks of this type only prove that the insiders are incapable of keeping business secrets.
Posted 43 months ago.
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I don't understand why people keep complaining about Unsaleable wanting to make money. IT'S A BUSINESS. Obviously they need to make money; there are bills to pay and product to purchase. How else do you expect a business to survive. They are just like any other out there, large or small. You can't expect them to sell at thrift store prices because that is not what they are.
On top of that, I feel that Unsaleable is one of the few businesses out there who have listened and are actually attempting to keep the film that we all love alive.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, in my opinion, there aren't many businesses out there that actually care this much about their customers and the products they sell as Unsaleable does, so let's stop complaining and see what they hold in store...
Posted 43 months ago.
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Over the years I've discovered that if I say...
"A company cannot be in business just to make money..."
the usual reaction -- usually from not-very-bright political and social conservatives -- is "How can you stay in business without making money?"
But that isn't at all what I said. Apparently such people do not understand plain English.
I do not see where Unsaleable is doing anything to maintain a steady supply of a variety of instant-picture materials at a reasonable price.
Posted 43 months ago.
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Wow - some of the negativity here is blowing my mind!
I'll be honest and say that I have no experience with buying from Unsaleable. If they are price-gouging on items yet still sell stuff, then they are charging what "the market will bear". Maybe you or I can't afford it, but somebody can, and its no use having sour grapes over THAT.
Chi Cowboy, I don't think the "leakers" have any intentional malice (i.e. not trying to be the High School In Crowd); I think they are trying to create a buzz and maybe a little exciting drama, and it might not be working on you, but it seems to be working on some of us (certainly on me)! We have to wait an entire WEEK - I think its exciting and it will be fun to see what the hoopla and buzz is all about. And hopefully I can afford to buy whatever it is if its something I want.
KnowTommorw, you've taken the words out of my keyboard. And playing Devil's Advocate here: maybe this Unsaleable company was trying to maximise on profits for a good reason. Lets say they are trying to start making their own instant film - takes money - maybe alot of money, maybe they needed startup capital? Maybe they had a plan which the customers weren't aware of?
I work as a bookkeeper in a large not-for-profit community center. We may be "not-for-profit" but that doesn't mean we don't have more income than out-go. Bills and staff must be paid. And that extra money gets plowed back in for more programs for the community that we sevice. Some of our programs cost alot (such as summer travel camp), and the profits made there help defray the cost of other programs where the cost exceeds the income.
For profit businesses work the same way but more so. Profits can be used to expand the business or start up a new company and for R & D for new products. And some companies would actually like to pay their staff a decent salary and provide benefits - takes money to do so!
Another thing to keep in mind - lets face it folks, Instant Photography is a niche product. Tom, Dick, and Harry (and their teenage kids) aren't buying Polaroid film or cameras. You can make money by selling product in heavy volume or you can make money by selling less of a product to a niche market for more money. Photography isn't a cheap hobby, and I doubt if it ever was. And anyone buy any good quality artists' supplies lately? Should we howl with righteous indignation at Dick Blick because a set of imported French pastels cost $250 and we can't afford it, or be happy that at least a business is selling the stuff so someone can buy it (and perhaps even ourselves in the future)?
I may be delusional, but I'm hoping that whatever is coming down the pike with PolaPremium will be something to make all instant film fanantics very happy. Why don't we wait to howl with indignation if its warrented after the fact instead of doing it before we even know what the "big news" is?
Posted 43 months ago.
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And if we don't know what "the big news" is, why so many people absurdly happy about it?
Posted 43 months ago.
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4am-4pm Do you know who the source of that story is? There was a time when I would have thought it plausible, but now I have reason to be doubtful that it's anything other than a BS rumor with nothing behind it of any value.
Others:
Unsaleable does not gouge prices. People who say they do are just being whiny because, oh the horror, they can't get everything they want for a very cheap and convenient price.
They are one of the cheapest places to buy film in Europe, PERIOD. 48 hour shipping costs a bit, yes, that's a fucking no-brainer. Would you rather it take a few weeks by freighter? It be nice if they offered different shipping options, yes. But they don't—I assume it's to keep some aspects of their business as simple as possible. The shipping they do offer is, in my experience, extremely reliable, fast, and safe...and totally worth the cost particularly when buying more than one or two packs of film.
There's also the issue of the (insert your currency here) vs the euro, something most people who bitch and moan about Unsaleable seem to forget or outright ignore or somehow be totally unaware of.
As has been pointed out, even nonprofits need to try to turn a profit, even if that is just from getting more funding from gov't programs and private donors than they use in a given year so that they can put it towards the next year's projects.
You want to talk price gouging? Look at Lomography's shop. I love that they are marketing themselves in a way that's getting people interested in shooting film, but there's no way I would pay their prices for cameras. It's nuts. A Holga for more than $30? Is it solid gold? No? Then it's worth between $5 and $10.
QMM:
Some of us are going bonkers with glee because we do know some of the big news. We haven't been let in on absolutely everything, because there are still things that are up in the air that public speculation could spoil. And spoilage would be one hell of a damned shame, sir. We've been asked to help out and keep out mouths shut until the PolaPremium site goes online fully to build "buzz", yes—it won't work on everybody but then...what marketing campaign does?—and partly because we want to see the looks on your faces Christmas morning when the news releases start coming out.
I would love to be able to tell you, and everybody else, everything that we have been told. I want to shout it from the rooftops. I want to grab you by the lapel and shake you as I tell you. I would be doing cartwheels if I wasn't in the worst physical shape of my life right now...not that I could before though...the stuff that is 100% for sure coming is going to be very interesting, and worth the wait.
Ditto on the things that are still being worked out.
Patience, friends. It'll start soon enough.
Posted 43 months ago.
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Polanoid can ban me for posting this, I dont care, people need to calm down...
From Polanoid.net:
Dear Polanoideros
As beloved member of our community we wanted you to be among the very first to be informed about a project that will change the world of Polaroid photography.
Please keep this information top secret for the moment, as we agreed to not leak any information before the official worldwide launch on November 27th.
We are very proud to inform you about the fact that we could persuade the Polaroid management to produce an outstanding amount of breathtaking film, before closing down their factories.
Many of these films are completely new products, never produced before, high quality material, hand assembled during the last production runs in Mexico (last packfilm factory) as well as in Enschede (last integral film factory). All these film as well a a wide selection of Polaroid cameras, books and accessories will be presented and celebrated at www.polapremium.com, the new home of Instant Photography.
We all know that there is no better way to show the world the power and the magic of instant tools than simply showing a broad selection of Polaroids. Therefore we cordially invite you to present a selection of your best Polaroids at this new worldwide center of the analog Polaroid universe.
As polapremium will be linked from all official Polaroid websites as well as it will be extensively promoted all around the globe, thousands of Polaroid enthusiast will inhale your Polaroid art every day. Every single Polaroid will of course be displayed with your name, which will be linked directly to your Polanoid profile (see screenshot below), so you better be prepared to become worldfamous.
So, if you are ready to be part of the biggest Polaroid project ever and to take part in changing the world of Instant photography, please use the links further down and authorize your polanoid pix to be displayed in the sample galleries on polapremium.com.
thanxo mucho
doc & webbo
That is all the info available. If there is more, I aint seen it yet.
Posted 43 months ago.
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The fact is that unsaleable doesn't move as much merchandise as you might imagine. They need higher prices to compensate for that. Plus, they operate in Europe which increases their costs further.
They manufactured 2000 packs of Choco80. The price was high but not insane at about $2.50 USD per exposue. Two years later, it was still available for sale.
That's $50,000 after all is sold. Minus the cost of merchandise, warehousing, transport from Polaroid's factory, overhead, utilities, interest and taxes on the investment, etc. If they profited $10,000 after all was said and done, I'd be surprised.
There just aren't as many people buying up Polaroid materials as you may think. $10K is a nice chunk of change, but it isn't putting food on the table for the guys running Unsaleable when its spread out over two years.
I understand they have other products and offerings. It adds up to a living. Maybe even a nice one. I really doubt they are getting 'rich' at our expense.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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amuderick edited this topic 43 months ago.
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I can only speak for myself - I'm not "absurdly happy", but I'm curious and maybe a tad excited because it was mentioned on either this thread or the other one running on the PolaPremium group thread that people who use peel-apart will be happy with the news.
I'm a cynic by nature (but whats that saying that if you scratch a cynic you'll find an idealist underneath), but I also believe that if there's a buck to made somewhere with something that people want, business people will figure out how to make that buck.
The Save Polaroid people have apparently made it known that there are still those of us out there who use Polaroid film and will pay some money to still be able to use it. Hope Spings Eternal, and maybe, just maybe, who ever is in back of PolaPremium.com are people who belive that they have found a dedicated niche market and will make that buck by providing the market with what it wants - Polaroid-type film.
In the end someone may be blowing Sunshine up our collective asses, but the idealistic side of me wants to believe that the Save Polaroid folks on this board aren't doing that, and are fanning the flames of excitement for a good reason.
Posted 43 months ago.
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We are very proud to inform you about the fact that we could persuade the Polaroid management to produce an outstanding amount of breathtaking film, before closing down their factories.
so, basically another limited run that won't be produced again (maybe some atz, some artistic spectra or whatever they call it). don't get me wrong, this is good. it keeps people buying and shooting polaroids, but everyone here saying "don't worry, it's good! it's really good news this time!" is letting everyone's imagination run wild, to the point where more than some believe there is a new production line up and running. how is that not letting people down? you don't have to say how much or what it is, but at least dispel some of the rumors. the best guess i have is that polapremium.com is simply unsaleable.com's u.s. division similar to what lordofthelens was on ebay a few months back, which would help us save on shipping costs (again, that's just a guess).
option 8 - thanks for the glimpse into the 'secret inside world'. not surprisingly though, that email sounds too much like all the other unsaleable emails.
Posted 43 months ago.
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Whickus: read St Justin's post above. For some reason, I don't get the impression that he's the kind of guy who'd be wanting to turn cartwheels over merely cheaper shipping prices OR a limited run of film.
If the people in the know were asked to not tell all until next week, why can't we sit on our hands for the week and take this in a spirt of fun and hope for the best? Why all of the gnashing of teeth over this - is blood going to run in the streets if we get disappointed?
Here we go nay-sayers - if we are disappointed with the big news, lets organize riots over not getting our Polaroid film - we can make the Summer of 1968 look like a game of croquet at Grandma's. All of us 9600 some odd people listed as members in this group - we will run amok and make 'em pay - we'll teach those nefarious business people not to eff with us! And it will all be filmed with .....digital cameras.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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12catcrazy edited this topic 43 months ago.
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There is no need to build up "buzz" about something truly significant.
I will remain unimpressed until such arrives.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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queermountainman edited this topic 43 months ago.
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Am I missing something here in regards to pack film? Adorama still has some of the old Polaroid pack films in stock. Not to knock the unsaleable effort, but if there was such a demand for the stuff wouldn't Adorama be out of it? It's only running $11-12 per pack--not much more expensive than the Fuji.
Rob
Posted 43 months ago.
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man you people are nuts! generally speaking, that is... so much active debate over something of which we have little control.
i think that a lot of people just expect this magical world where full polaroid production will suddenly be announced, and at costs equal or cheaper to those of the pre-discontinuing era.
that's never going to happen. get over it. if someone throws you some crumbs, take them or walk away, simple as that. if any of you could strike up a deal with polaroid to produce a few more packs of polaroid, i don't think you would be offering it at half price to forum members. you would throw it on ebay and get as much money as possible. minus a couple packs for use. it's called turning a profit, and just because you do so doesn't mean you don't love the product or care about the users. there are cameras i've bought for a low price and sold for a huge profit on ebay... and these are cameras that i own myself and love dearly. but others are sometimes willing to pay much more. fine by me...i'll toss out a few crumbs when i can.
as for cheap polaroid, i guess it just depends on where you live and the available resources, but i have gotten TONS of polaroid for VERY cheap on ebay. i'm just very persistent and pay attention. i got 18 boxes of perfectly fine 665 for $52! i have bought an entire case of uv-id for $38! my 600 stash, i paid about $6 per pack and it expired in dec of 2007. there is still sooo much of it, people are just impatient and it's easier to click 'add to shopping cart' than it is to screw around with searching and bidding. so if you don't want to pay the price, hunt around or pay a premium.
i, for one, am interested in what they will be offering at this site. will i bite? i won't know until it actually opens. but if it ends up being more than i want to pay, i'll just step back and let others suck it up, and i'll slink back to ebay and craigslist and pay what i am willing to pay, and be happy with it, because i am still shooting plenty of polaroid and will be for quite some time, with no one to thank for it but myself.
move on.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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moominsean edited this topic 43 months ago.
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"if someone throws you some crumbs, take them or ... walk away..."
I refuse to get on my knees to peck at crumbs, especially crumbs tossed out by those who are in business just to make a buck.
@Option8 (below)... I am judging Unsaleable by their attitude, more than anything else. And the ATZ business left me with a bad feeling. Unsaleable seems to "puff their wares", which does not sit well with me.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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queermountainman edited this topic 43 months ago.
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Unsaleable.com is a business and therefor they want to make money but saying that they only want to make money is plainly ridiculous. They currently sell twin packs of Spectra film for about € 29.90 (about $37.5). Given the prices that you see on eBay they could easily charge $50 for 20 exposures. Some people should once in a while descend from their mountain and try to look at things from a non-US-centric view. For Europe Unsaleable.com provides without any doubt the best supply of polaroid instant film at very very reasonable prices.
Posted 43 months ago.
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QMM - I love you, but just let me assure you...you're wrong about Unsaleable. I guess I am too, to an extent.
Lets leave speculation at the door, and just be happy with ourselves.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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Option8 (a group admin) edited this topic 43 months ago.
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What it is all about AFAIK:
When the Polaroid factory closed there was some stuff in the warehouses that didn't match to produce regular 600 film / Spectra.
Unsaleable asked Polaroid to use these materials as well to produce somewhat unusual film and bought it all.
They also bought some of the stuff that was out of spec and would have been destroyed otherwise (like the first attempt to make artistic TZ).
There is also the "600 special" which is said to be somewhat manipulable and expires 09/09.
I have one pack of that but I will not iopen it before I've used my shorter dated film.
I appreciate Unsaleables efforts to rescue as much film as possible.
Their prices are not the lowest in Europe.
Some wholesale dealers (who only ship to pro photographers and retail dealers) sell 08/09 dated 600/1200 for 25EUR a double pack.
Prices in America are still lower than that.
Noone is planning to produce a 600 compatible integral film.
When it's gone it's gone. So enjoy it while it lasts.
Originally posted 43 months ago.
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polapix edited this topic 43 months ago.
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i'm just hoping type 80 film will be available. and I won't say anything negative. I've dealt with Unsaleable before, and yeah, while the rpices of shipping and the exchange rate from euro to dollar can be steep, it hasn't deterred me from going to them continually, esp. for type 80 film. Whatever this PolaPremium business is, I'm behind it, and while I'd live to be privy to a lot of this secret info, I trust and respect peeps like Tubes, Annie B, davebias, Justin and Tod B. they wouldn't give us bullshit info. Also, they're the ones who spearheaded Save Polaroid, and I know that their hearts are in it 100%. They want to keep Polaroid alive as much as the rest of us. It's friday, and in one week, we'll know what this is all about. Tonight, I am going to kick back with a Beam and Coke and some Modelo and think about how much I like shooting Polaroids, and maybe this weekend, I'll shoot some. And then I'll go to my job all week and on the 27th, I'll check out this PolaPremium business. Everyone else should relax and do the same. As Arnold Schwarzenegger said in that putrid Batman sequel, "Chill Out!"
Posted 43 months ago.
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A couple things:
First:
I fail to see how people on here on here can claim to say things like:
"Unsaleable isn't doing anything to maintain a steady supply of a variety of instant-picture materials at a reasonable price."
"No one is planning to produce a 600 compatible integral film."
"Unsaleable is in business just to make a buck"
Those of you saying those things don't know the intentions and dealings of other people and businesses throughout the world. You may have perceptions and feelings about certain businesses and their intentions - you may feel someone is only out to make a buck, but you really don't know what goes on behind the scenes, what things cost to produce or acquire, etc. No one except those business and those that they deal with know that stuff.
Second
We would love to tell you all more but:
1. We can't (but we wanted to share what we could)
2. We honestly don't know that much more other than some specifics and intentions right now
But like Tod said, what will be revealed in the beginning is just the beginning, but the intention is do something that should make (almost) everyone happy. And supporting PolaPremium will help that.
Posted 43 months ago.
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I think we can move onto the actual group now.
flickr.com/groups/polapremium/
Posted 43 months ago.
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