|
Search this group's discussions
|
Critique my article?
|
Evening All
In my neck of the woods it is mostly the home owner who pays for the photography when promoting their home, and agents complain that the owner begrudges enough having to part with the agent's fee, and they are even more reticent about shelling out extra for photography.
Some agents thought it would be useful to have something on paper to help them 'sell' the value of photography to the owner, so I've created a little pdf subtitled "Why You Should Hire a Pro Photographer".
My intent is that the reader (agent and owner both) gets an insight into what we do, sees that there's a bit more to it than 'point & shoot', and 'gets' the value in hiring a pro (and who ya gonna call? :-)
I'd value any feedback on the text and photos that might improve its intent. You can download the article (280kb) from my site.
Feel free to plagiarize the BJzus out of it if you find it useful.
Originally posted at 4:41AM, 9 January 2008 PDT
(permalink)
jon54 edited this topic 53 months ago.
|
|
I would say that it is a good start but there are a few things that I would include. I would change the before and after picture. Take the before pictures with a camera that would be typically used by a realtor, a standard point and shoot so that you can demonstrate, 1) the quality difference, 2) what useing a wide angle lens on a professional camera can do in reference to capturing more of a room, and 3) what useing professional photo editing software can do in reference to correcting perspective, exposure and white balance. I know that this does not pertain to all realtors but what I have run across in my experience is that realtors think that they know everything and that they all consider themselves excellent photographers. You have to make comparisons of your images vs their images to get them to see the light.
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
i dont know what aussies do jon, but in the uk, most agents take shots from up high as well, so that'd be good to show how you can improve on that if it applies.
i would also hit them with the most obvious scenarios first - i.e blown out /good windows. Having just an additional off camera flash on your first comparison could wait till nearer the end too as i think what jthalmanphotography says is much more important to address first.
The only other thing i would say is from my experience as an agent, most people are not into reading much paper work, and instead, want bullet points and/or pictures. However, as you photograph more expensive property, the clients may take the time to read it.
hope some of that is helpful jon
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
It's a good article, but to be honest, it reads more like you're teaching other people how to do what you do rather than why you should be hired to do the job. I'd concentrate more on how a good photograph would help sell their home. Why one photo is appealing and another isn't, but not necessarily how to make it so. How much quicker a client can expect to sell their home or how many more viewings they'll get if they hire you.
Perhaps you can find a nice realtor who can give you some stats or a nice quote. Or even quotes from happy customers.
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Good tips guys...thanks. I used my images that I had in file...and I don't own a P&S, but could borrow one and 'collect' scenes with the above in mind.
Cutting down the verbiage...also good.
...and quit using words like 'verbiage' :-)
Originally posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
jon54 edited this topic 53 months ago.
|
|
Jon
I took up re photography as a profession after 16 yrs as a real estate consultant, and also after having my first camera as a 5 yo.
I am the first to admit, I still have a lot to learn with photography.
However I do know the pro and cons of how a real estate agent thinks and how a vendor thinks, and what turns them on.
I have produced a brochure also, went to the time and money to have if off-set printed on glossy, and employed graphic designers and proof readers.
I will recover the original file and give you a look at it when I find it!
Your brochure has "too much information" and is more in a teaching mode. They don't care or want to know about that.
When the agent is trying to sell a marketing package and how much the vendor wants to invest in it, and at the same time actually GET THE LISTING amongst the competition, get screwed on fees, have to be the "best liar" about what price the vendor may get...there is only a certain window of opportunity to get the vendor to accept getting pro photography done.
The simple bait is that the VENDOR WANTS THE BEST PRICE...human greed, and you have to appeal to that emotion.
By suggesting in your brochure that a pro's photos may get them a better price, you are half way there.
It's also a sell to the Agent. You need to strike their greed cord, and this is that by using you, they will attract more enquiries, and in turn get more competition between buyers (ie - a better price for the vendors) with quality photos. And will save the TIME, going back and forwards to get the best photos. And will avoid any vendor complaints..."I don't like that photo etc etc".
Most of the agents I do work for, allow up to and around A$200 in their marketing package. It's a small price to pay in packages ranging from $1000-$8000!
I explain in my brochure that "the photos form the foundations of your successful marketing campaign". Everything bounces off the photos - newspaper ads, photoboard, brochures, the Net, glossy mags. Use the wrong photos, and it flows all through the other money the vendor is investing in the program.
I fortunately have a very rapport with the agents, and I suppose that comes from a certain amount of respect for what i achieved in sales (if you last 16 years in the business, you gotta being something right!!)
but I still need to convince them to use me. They always think they can do it better!
My brochure has helped. Altho' they may not use it in practice, they can see that at a glance, you have had a go, invested money in the brochure...so you must be good at what you do. It';s all perception!
Gotta go now - 3 shoots today. All this written in haste.
I will be back to you.
Cheers Milton
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Jon,
I like it. I like these kind of examples that contrast professional and non-professional shots. The 2 you choose (lighting and verticals) are certainly in the top 4 or 5 improvements that a professional shooter brings to the situation. If anything, your non-professional shots look too good... most of the shots I see on our MLS are much worse than your shots.
So in AU sellers pay for photographers? Do the real estate agents get paid 3% on selling side and 3% on listing side or are commissions severely discounted?
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
When I read this earlier my first observation was there was not a significant difference in the 'before' and 'after'. Not enough to persuade me to hire you. Also, less is more and there is frequently a tendency to give too much info. A few salient points and dramatic shots can suffice.
Yeah, borrow that point and shoot.
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Yeah the non-pro shots look too good...'cos they were taken by a pro :-D
@Yolise & propertypixtas - yeah I've got to watch the 'teacher-mode' thing. Did I mention that I was a high school teacher for 25 years??
@propertypixtas - great inside opinion. 3 shoots today! If I get 3 a week I'm encouraged (it's early days yet).
@Larry - I don't know the commission breakdown here. Maybe propertypixtas knows?
@Underexp - I'll source a P&S and cut down the text.
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Commission is deregulated - ie - the agents can charge what they like!
The Real Estate Institutes of each State in Aust have "standard rates" which start at about 4% for properties up to $200K, then slide to 3 and 2% as the sale price goes up.
There are a lot of cowboys in the market who sell themselves cheap and will constantly de-value a GOOD real estate agents' services. They will quote 1.5-2.5% just to get the job!!
And at the same time tell them an inflated hope price for their property!
It would be no different any where around the world!
I used to work on a "Bonus Scheme" - ie if got them more than they thought , we would share in the success. If I couldn't get the price range I nominated, I would discount my services (begrudgingly...) and in some cases - no charge if they were not happy.
I have applied the same principles to my photo services.
In my first year of breaking in to the business, I would offer my services for nothing, to get the chance to prove how much better my photos were than the agent's.
I always did a "No Sale No Charge" basis to cover the agent if they were wearing the cost. Have stopped that now,
I also guarantee my work. If agent or vendor are not happy, I will go back to the property as many times as it takes, or we agree to part ways without cost.
Now 18 months in, I am gradually adjusting my rates upwards as demand increases.
I consider that at the end of the day, the rapport you strike with the agents is the MOST IMPORTANT aspect to work on. Without their trust and confidence in your services; fancy brochures, or explanations of why they should use you, are a waste of time!!
It';s a case of, don't tell me how good you are, SHOW ME!!
I gambled in the first year, and it is now paying off. This is full time for me now, I am looking to take on an "apprentice" in the next 12 months, who will assist in the PP.
I still have a lot to learn!!
BTW - I will find my brochure file in the next day or so - after I finish PP - and insert it in a reply, or work out how to do.
Cheers Milton
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Here is a copy of the brochure I made up - took ages, cost heaps, but has been worth it!!
I have copied and pasted it in..not sure if this will work???
Feel free to copy if any ideas in it can help your business.
Cheers Milton
PPIX2.4.pdf
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
 |
aaron2005 [deleted] says:
@propertypixtas - cut and paste didn't work. Do you have a website for us to look at?
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Pasting didn't work Milton - you may be able to upload it to flikr as you would a photo and then paste a link to it here.
But that aside, thank you for your insiders view (from within the cut and slash arena or an RE office). Really, I have to start talking to agents more about how things work locally (Sunshine Coast Qld). Especially their perception of photo 'ownership' or usage rights. Hey you'd be perfect for that insight - check my thread "who is my contract with...?"
And I agree - brochures are frosting, service is ... meat and potatoes?
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I can see why you have to work hard to sell your services. Sounds like there is more agent commission discounting going on. Listing agents here typically pay all the marketing expenses and typically are getting 3% but in fast markets many agents discount to 1 or 2% just to get the listing.
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Web site not up - will be seeking help and suggestions with this later.
Can't work out Flickr yet.
Jon - will be checking out "ownership " soon - moving house over the next 2 weeks....very busy!!
So if anyone would like a copy, just email me at :-
propertypix@eftel.net.au
and I'll shoot the file back to you when I get enough for a bulk email.
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
You can't attach files to flickr posts. You'll need to wait for your website or try something like www.sendspace.com/
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Sorry but...
What I see first up is you don't have a copyright symbol ANYWHERE. Not in this letter, not in your image postings, nada. It begins there, realizing your rights and taking steps to protect them. You post questions regarding usage rights yet you leave yourself wide open for violations. Unless you tighten up your grip and start using the right contracts, limited download access, limit the CD's you give out, educate your clients before the shoot, don't expect things to change any time soon.
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Sorry to break into this so late...
Jon, I read over your handout last night and I think you're onto something. Having material like this that an agent can provide to a homeowner that's 'on the fence' about photography may make both the homeowner and agent happy. (Homeowner feels they'll get more $ and agent gets a sale)
With that said, I also feel that everything propertypixas has mentioned is valid. I'd consider his(?) points carefully when revising your handout, since I kept wondering "What's in it for me?" FWIW, I felt you waited too long to explain that hiring you would make the photos jump off the page and that in relative terms, that's a bargain. This material should be at the front, since nobody's going to read it all the way through to learn this.
Another major issue I had with your handout is that you never mention the...ahem...B-I-G Picture: the fact that RE photographers shoot with wide-angle lenses that provide a fuller representation of the size and scale of a room than the average RE agent with their point-and-shoot. In other words, we can capture the WHOLE bedroom/bathroom/kitchen/etc. in a single shot, not just whatever portion of the room the agent's camera (and mood) allowed at the time.
One other thing I think you should consider is having 2 versions of the handout: one targeted for RE agents and another targeted at homeowners. Although a lot of the content may be the same, you may want to 'spin' things slightly differently depending on the reader. For example, say you are explaining the benefits of real-estate photography in generating interest:
- real-estate agents want to sell homes as quickly as possible regardless of the price, so you might write this as "Having great photographs of a listing will generate interest and likely lead to a faster sale and higher turnover that you would have generated otherwise."
- homeowners want to sell their home for as much as possible regardless of how many other homes the agent has for sale, so you might write this as "Having great photographs of your home as part of the listing will generate interest, may lead to higher offers on your home and deliver a better selling price than you would have received otherwise."
Same point, but it's spun slightly different to target what each group is looking for.
I know I knocked your brochure pretty hard here, but I really do think you're onto something. Having this marketing material at hand will help distinguish yourself from any fresh-out-of-school photog with a camera and probably help land you clients. You're probably closer to the 3 shoots/day than you think...
Originally posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
Justin Soles edited this topic 53 months ago.
|
|
|
@vmo67 - give it to me straight :-D But really, your candour is appreciated. I'm lucky this has happened early in my career and it will prompt me to tighten up my act.
@Justin - thanks for the analysis and suggestions. All leading to a better product.
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I have emailed a copy of my brochure to Jon.
Perhaps Jon can load it so others can see it ?? I am OK with that.
As you'll see, it virtually covers everything that Justin touches on, but in short crisp point form.
And that's not to say, it can't be improved on!
I did start with a mission to have a separate brochure for agent and seller, but under advice from my proof reader, we were able to combine the message.
Yes Justin... I am a "him".
Cheers Milton
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
propertypixtas & Jon54,
I'd be happy to post your marketing brochure on the PFRE blog and do a post on it if you are ok with that I think this is a subject that would benefit from wider exposure.
You can send it to me at: larry@lohrman.com if you are ok with me doing a blog post on it.
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
You can download Milton's brochure using this link... (177 kb)
Originally posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
jon54 edited this topic 53 months ago.
|
|
|
Jon54 - Thanks Jon! I've posted this info to Larry's blog entry on PFRE.
propertypixas - Hope you don't mind that I cross-posted to PFRE...do Tazmanian ISP charge much for bandwidth?
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Justin
In Tasmania, I pay A$80 per month for unlimited access - download and upload.
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Jon, I'm not sure of my opinion on your brochure, something does not "hit" me about it and I can't put my finger on it at this time. How well has it worked for you? After paying the cost of printing it and designing it (time), distribution (mail?) what was your return in dollars, requests for more info, and new clients? Far as I'm concerned, this stuff needs to pay for itself, otherwise, it's window dressing.
I agree, the images from a DIY Agent need to be much lower quality. One way is to get a friendly agent and loan them a crappy camera and turn them loose in a house, then you go in and shoot it right.
It reminds me of a white paper, research paper of a magazine article. Maybe that's what's not hitting me. No sizzle. <_ wild idea on } What if you were able to get it published then gave THAT out. You'd be able to rely (some) on the credibility of that publisher. Local Newspaper? Popular photographer? WSJ Real Estate Section? ...<_ /wild }
"once a house hunter" is a oprhan, gotta fix that.
"It's all about the light" subhead, try a little bit larger font size?
*** I LOVE the title and subhead. Nailed it!!!
Are paragraphs indented, or open spaced?
"Without a second flash the bedroom... where's the rest of the sentence? Oops!
subject matter: the three examples are techniques that _I_ don't see agents having the time or the expertise or equipment to tackle on their own. And you've shown why it is important. Good Job!
I can see this as something for agents to hand to buyers (which I understand as your intent - good job you've hit the mark!) but I wonder how many agents would take the time to real it, completely. And that's ok, give them something else.
I've created a number of flyers over the years I'd be happy to share later in the day (I'll have to dig 'em up and upload them but I can give you a link to my newest marketing creation. I'm not real sure how to best utilize it. Originally, I was to print these as pocket books from iPhoto but that's a big expense. (did a couple and they look AWESOME if do say so myself) I've added a few pages and links to the web version in case you wonder how it would work in "book form." I also had in mind reaching out to the homeowners with this material mainly via 3-line class ad. It can also be used in group presentation form. However it's delivered,
..I'd appreciate your comments on anything! This thread should be continued as we sharpen our skills on each other. This thread made me join this group. This is THE time of the year to prime the pump.
www.secretsofsellingsouthernillinoisrealestate.com/
Enjoy!
/kelly thomas
owner - SIHomeTours.com
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Hi Kelly and welcome aboard. Thank you for your input. Good proofing!
No one knows about the flyer apart from members on this board. I wanted to bench-test it here before publicising it. It has not been handed out as yet.
I did borrow a P&S yesterday and reshot some of those same scenes. oooeerr! It wasn't difficult to make 'em look bad. But they were suspiciously out of focus and I think I had the camera in some 'shallow depth of field' mode? It had a snap-on wide angle lens. Could the quality be THAT bad? (eg the mask on the wall)
Then the battery died and I didn't have a chance to test that theory.
The piece is intended to be passed from the agent to the vendor, as vendors here pay for photography and agents tell me they (vendors) need convincing. Of course I hope that agents would "get it" too.
As others have suggested I feel I should cut down the text and perhaps bullet point the main points. From a graphic design, 'flow' view point, those side-by-side comparison photos cut across the page aleaving blocks of white space for text, but that feels constricting. I'm after layout ideas. Will check out your link.
Thanks
Originally posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
jon54 edited this topic 53 months ago.
|
|
|
PS - the edited (but not finalised) article is available from the link at the top of this thread. Complete with P&S vs DSLR photos.
Do the P&S photos look TOO fuzzy? I don't want to be accused of stacking the deck unfairly.
Originally posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
jon54 edited this topic 53 months ago.
|
|
Only complaint i have is the photos used to illustrate the "better" shots don't look all that spectacular in comparison to what you can do as a pro-photog. However, that could possibly be due to the decor, which is hard to fix. :-p
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Hey..that's MY home :-D and more representative of what I would normally shoot.
I wasn't able to borrow the P&S long enough to take it out to shoot a mill+ property.
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
People selling houses want a quick sale and a good price with a minimum of hassle.
Does the article suggest the why and how your photos will help achieve this?
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
That cuts to the point Don...
Posted 53 months ago.
(permalink)
|
Would you like to comment?
Sign up for a free account, or sign in (if you're already a member).
|
|
Photography for Real Estate /
Discuss
Feed – Subscribe to Photography for Real Estate discussion threads
