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aaron2005 [deleted] says:
Great example Marcus. I do this quite a bit for longer architectural shoots and I have started doing this every so often on real estate shoots as well. I really dislike setting up lots of lighting and I think it is an archaic way of operating when shooting digital.
I am masking the frames by hand though. Is there some Photoshop feature that does this automatically? A "blend if" type of thing?
Every so often an agent will look at me and say "Ummm...I think you were standing in the photo just then." So I have to explain to them what I'm doing.
Posted 55 months ago.
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I suck at teh photoshop. Are you stacking the images and painting through to the image underneath?
Posted 55 months ago.
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@ aaron2005,
'I am masking the frames by hand though. Is there some Photoshop feature that does this automatically? A "blend if" type of thing?'
yep, in the layers palette, top left, there's a little box that says 'normal', click on it to get the drop down menu, one option is 'lighten'. That's the one you're after.
If you're in the frame you may still need to do some manual masking though
Originally posted 55 months ago.
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Marcus Newey edited this topic 35 months ago.
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@ n95
Yes, you need to open each of the images , decide on one as a 'base' then copy and paste each of the others onto it, closing the originals as you go. In the example I've posted this results in an image with five layers. Then select the 'lighten' option as described above.
Posted 55 months ago.
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marcus as you're UK based you might be able to help me.
i think this technique is excellent, and for someone like me who is an actual estate agent rather than a professional photographer it allows me to achieve good results with just one strobe.
I currently have a strobe and a kood optical trigger. I take it im gonna need something else if i move it round a corner (as i wont have a flash to trigger it from my camera you see).
I keep hearing about pocket wizards etc but i cant ever find them for sale!
Posted 55 months ago.
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Richie
Radio slaves are definitely the way to in the long run, as you say optical would have struggled in that situation.
For that shot I used some cheap chinese rf triggers, [£30 for two master and 4 slave units- google cactus triggers] BUT: I don't recommend them ! they really are not much more reliable that optical slaves IMO
I bit the bullet and bought a set of 4 Pocket Wizard Plus II's from Teamwork Photo last month and I'm a happy bunny, with empty pockets!
There are cheaper RF options though, check out the Bowens Pulsar, the Elinchrom skyports and now the microsync [ warehouse express also stock pocket wizards but Teamwork are cheaper].
All the others are cheaper than PW's but with less versatility and shorter range. Though probably plenty good enough for most RE work.
Originally posted 55 months ago.
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Marcus Newey edited this topic 35 months ago.
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Armed with a remote shutter release in one hand and a wireless strobe in the other you could run from room to room and pop off shots without having to return to the camera.
The shutter release may not work reliably if not line of sight (I've never used one).
Plus you'd want to know your strobe powers were in the ball park (I wonder if there's a small wireless LCD monitor you could carry for chimping??
Posted 55 months ago.
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Thanks Marcus ..... You really have my brain working now.
M. James
Posted 55 months ago.
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Marcus your timing is great.
I am a new strobist & just bought 1 580EXII & I posted a similar thread on strobist but seems not many people were interested in my post & I was thinking to post my query here.
I have been experimenting a lot though I don't have much knowledge with 580 strobe but photoshop wise I am a darkroom guy so I know this stuff since I have been doing this in film days & I can assure you that what you want is a 5 mins job in automated manner, its a best kept secret of the film world but now its digitally possible too.
Give me few hours from now & I will post the automated method from my retouching computer.
Here is the link to strobist thread
www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157603227741771/...
I may repost that thread here & we can continue the discussion.
Posted 55 months ago.
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@lightzoneindia- are you saying that you will post a tutorial or give exact instructions on how to automate this type of post camera editing? If so, I might be inclined to try this...I've been contemplating getting more lights, but I'd love to save the money if possible. Also, it would come in handy if you don't have enough lights to fill in all of the necessary spaces to get the desired result.
Now my next question is: this looked like it was fairly easy to pull in each of the rooms...they were all separated by doorways. On the other hand, what if you had a huge open great room where the Kitchen, Dining Room, Breakfast Area and Living Spaces are all combined into one large space? To complicate it, what if the space were vacant? How would you handle that one?
Posted 55 months ago.
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Yes I will post a short tutorial once I reach office to do this automatically.
Yes the above posted shot is quite easy to do & I have been doing much more complicated shots since film days even in locations where its not possible to hide the light source.
Vacant spaces are not much of a problem, the real problem is a huge space where the Kitchen, Dining Room, Breakfast Area and Living Spaces are all combined into one large space, these kind of shots will eat up good amount of masking time & 1 shot can take upto a week to show up as finished.
Imagine a shot with 200 layers.
So this is a technique of light painting & is not really a substitute of having additional lights.
I don't do RE shoots but reading here I get to know that most guys charge quite less hence you may not want to increase your post production time.
Posted 55 months ago.
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thanks a lot marcus, i think looking at the prices we'll have to stick with our opticals!
but thanks again for taking the time to share that information
Posted 55 months ago.
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Richie, it might be worth checking these out if funds won't stretch to the better ones, I know I dissed them above but others have a much better opinion of them !
Posted 55 months ago.
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It seems more cost effective to just purchase/use more strobes. The amount of time to shoot multiple frames after moving the one strobe from place to place PLUS the additional time in photoshop to create the one image clearly makes purchasing several $89 Vivitar 285HV's a no-brainer.
Originally posted 55 months ago.
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Dave Hoffmann edited this topic 55 months ago.
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@ Dave, I hear what you're saying, though a lot of people seem to be overestimating the work involved.
As far as the shooting goes [in this case] it is not really any different to use one or five strobes. Instead of moving to five positions, placing a strobe, a trigger and a stand at each, then returning to the camera to take the pic. I moved around those five positions with a hand held strobe and fired the camera via remote as I went. So I actually saved time there.
And the photoshop blend can be done in about 2 minutes for this
pic.
It's not just another 4 vivitars either, you'll need the triggers too.
And what about Iightzoneindia ? He wants to use this technique to light a scene with as many as 200 separate flashes, buying and rigging that lot would be rather silly if the same image can be created with one strobe.
Granted it's not for everyone, nor every scene, and post proccessing time will be much longer for more complicated images with lots of layers and if you need to do manual masking because you / the strobe are in some of the frames.
Posted 55 months ago.
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Great technique, will have to remember it when my batteries run low
Posted 55 months ago.
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I'm amazed that you can do the PP so fast.
Love the gif demo, that's outstanding.
Posted 55 months ago.
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aaron2005 [deleted] says:
@lightzoneindia - I don't see how a process like this can be automated. How does the computer know when to edit me out of the frame and which part of which layers to mask?
Posted 55 months ago.
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@ Malcom
To do the blend [not the perspective and curves] in that time you'd have to be pretty slick with the Photoshop shortcut keys.
Here's how I do it:
Select all the frames in bridge and open.
click on the 'minimise' tab of all but one frame [the base frame] to dock them,
Now click on the first of the docked frames to bring it back then use 'ctrl'+A, 'ctrl'+C, 'ctrl'+W, 'ctrl'+V
This combination will select all, copy, close the frame, then paste it onto the base frame [in about 4 secs]
Repeat for the rest of the frames and you are left with one image with [five] layers
Select all in the layers palette and choose the 'lighten' option in the layers blend box.
Assuming there are no artifacts to manually blend or adjustments to individual layers opacity, the image can now be flattened and proccesed as normal.
@aaron
I guess all of the above could be automated, stopping before flattening.
Even if you were in the frames, as long as you wore black and did a good job of flaging the strobe from the camera you probably wouldn't need to do any further masking.
Originally posted 55 months ago.
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Marcus Newey edited this topic 55 months ago.
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Hi Marcus
I read this thread ages ago, saved it, and only recently stumbled upon it again. I love this method! I mean its a no-brainer.
5 strobes+5 tripods+5receivers+setupx5
vs
1 of each + 2min photoshop time
The only thing that baffles me, is that this topic/technique is not really covered online in real estate photography - or am I looking in the wrong place? I've seen it mentioned in motor photography. Do you have more links we could explore?
Thanks!
Gus
Posted 35 months ago.
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This is very interesting to me as I only have one flash.
Does it make any difference which photo is used as the base frame or the stacking order of the frames?
Posted 35 months ago.
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I thought I'd embed the gif file for those that haven't clicked on the link in the start of the thread:
@gussy1976
I'm not aware of many other references to this technique, though there must be quite a few out there, Alan Blakely [who's a member here] has written up a peice in July's ProPhotoResource on using a grid spotted strobe combined with this technique to work up a lighting scheme in a scene:
prophotoresource.com/index.php/39-July-2009/Architectural...
[you need to sign up for the free membership to read the full article]
And I wouldn't be surprised to find a few theads over at the strobist group either, but I don't know any specifics.
If anyone else has any links to info on this technique Id love to see them too. It's not something I do very often, just another useful tool for the bag.
I think I've seen Jake[the...] mention working this way on a few of his recent images too.
@winstonstudios
I don't think it makes a big difference what order you stack the frames [as long as the base exposure remains the same, ie the in camera shutterspeed and aperture weren't changed]
As far as I know the same applies to which to pick as the base layer.
I just do it in the oreder they were shot.
The exception to this is when I'm using an hdr, or other composite, as the base layer, then adding extra layers to highlight different aspects of the scene.
Kinda like Alan [or 'attic fire'], only not as good !
Originally posted 35 months ago.
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Marcus Newey edited this topic 35 months ago.
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O.k so I am trying to do this but I'm stuck. First from LR you can just select your images and select "open as layers in PS". This loads all images as layers into one PS image.
However when I select all layers the drop-down that normally says "Normal" greys out so I can't select "Lighten"
Any ideas?
Posted 35 months ago.
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Funny, I was just telling someone that my objective for the day was to figure out how to do this!
When you're masking in the new layers, are you doing them at 100% opacity and fill? Also, are you choosing "lighten" even for the underexposed frame?
Posted 35 months ago.
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Have seen this before, but this thread has more "how to" detail. Thanks for re-introducing it. Reminds me of some of the light-painting stuff I've seen in other groups...which, it seems to me would be a great fit for twilight exteriors. Like, who needs floods. All you need is a speedlight and a ninja costume!
Originally posted 35 months ago.
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Mark Byerly edited this topic 35 months ago.
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Jeff select each layer individually. Then change each layer's attribute to Lighten. Also, I believe your starting image need to be on the bottom of all the other layers.
Posted 35 months ago.
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OMG, OMG-- I just figured out the "lighten' mode for blending layers. THANK YOU< THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU Marcus!
All this time I've been hand blending these damn photos! Holy crap.
Posted 34 months ago.
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how did you deal with the changing light in the windows? In your GIF it looked light the lighting may have changed ever so slightly between shots. Did you do any masking for that?
BTW, a very cool technique that just may save my butt at a shoot that requires more than 3 lights. Like you say...another tool in the toolbox.
Posted 34 months ago.
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Hi Marcus--
I'm glad to have learned your technique, and it work particularly well if you are shooting only strobes and keeping the windows from blowing out. However, I've been using a technique I learned from Jake the Great, where you shoot one photo pure ambient (let the windows blow out completely), then you shoot your strobes as best you can to expose properly for the exterior view from the windows. Generally, I open the two photos in PS, copy the strobed version as a layer onto the ambient version, then I paint in with mask the ambient version, thus retaining the windows while bringing the more natural ambient tones and light from the blown-out shot.
My problem when I use the "lighten" mode on the layers now is that it brings in the blown out windows, and I have no clue how to paint back the propertly exposed windows. Any ideas? Does this make sense? If not, I'll re-write with example photos. Jake, pitch in here too if you know how to work around this.
Posted 34 months ago.
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Jeffbartol,
I think Adam has answered your question, basically you can't change the blend mode when all the layers are selected, you need to leave the bottom layer un-selected, then you should be able to do it [or just change each individual layer].
Big Other,
Once you've added the second [strobed] layer and selected 'lighten' you can add a layer mask and use a brush to 'paint out' the window area. The trouble is you're back to hand blending, and you may have difficulties with getting the window frames to look right.
Vonnie,
Yes you're right to pick up on the window light changing, it's something to look out for, and can be fixed using layer masks [as detailed above] if needed, extra work though.
Posted 34 months ago.
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Thanks for the tip, Marcus. I find brushing in the window over-top of the ambient exposure makes for a somewhat unnatural look, as you assumed correctly.
Posted 34 months ago.
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This is an awesome technique Marcus.
but am i correct in assuming that one must have a wireless trigger?
my equipment is a D300 and one sb800. CLS only no triggers yet.
i do have the phottix cleon camera trigger but don't if it will fire the camera from around corners.
i sure would like to see a step by step procedure for this method of using one strobe.
thanks,
tws
Posted 27 months ago.
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Great thread. I actually picked up this technique through trial and error over the past few months. I have five strobes but sometimes just don't want to set them up. I'll expose for the windows (so they look nice), take one shot then dial the exposure up a little for the next couple of shots so the shadows aren't so dark. Then I'll run around like a mofo (using my CTR301P transmitter and one receiver stuck on the bottom of one of my SB-28 with my D90 on a 10 second timer shutter..
The big diff is I don't use Lightroom or Photoshop to blend the subsequent exposures together, I use Enfuse. Photomatix HDR mode freaks out because I haven't technically changed my exposure one or more stops per pic but Enfuse doesn't care, it just blends them all together.
If the windows come out OK, great. If not, I'll merge the first exposed windows into the final blend.
Posted 27 months ago.
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theworriedshrimp
You could do it with a self timer like mybike.. suggests. I used a cheapo ebay radio set to fire the strobe on this one, but I also do this with cls [cls is my go-to method, only breaking out the PW's if cls can't cope]
I also use a chinese radio trigger to fire the camera, the 10pin plug is a bit iffy, but I've been using it hard for over three years now. The range isn't great, but fine for most indoor applications, as long as the batteries are fresh and the little aerial is pulled out.
Posted 27 months ago.
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hey mybike,
that sounds alright.
i don't have any trouble with blending or merging i use CS4 and have access to Enfuse but haven't yet used it.
it's the triggering part i'm confused about. presumably i can trigger my camera with a phottix cleon but that won't trip the flash. i've an sb800 and i can set that on su4 mode and i think the on camera flash will trigger it, providing it isn't hidden by a wall etc.
i'd like to learn exactly how this is done and what the preferred equipment might be.
tws
Posted 27 months ago.
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Mybike: I don't know if you've discovered it, but Enfuse also "obeys" alpha transparency masks. So if a particular blend is not working because one part of one image is spoiling the result, you can erase that area to transparent in Photoshop, save the TIFF "with Alpha Transparency" and... voilá! No more problem!
This is a report on early Enfuse experiments, also covering the transparency thing: www.flickr.com/groups/photographyforrealestate/discuss/72...
Originally posted 27 months ago.
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Jeremy Esland edited this topic 27 months ago.
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Thanks Marcus
Posted 27 months ago.
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Cool beans!
Posted 16 months ago.
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Funny, I was just telling someone that my objective for the day was to figure out how to do this!
theworriedshrimp 
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