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"I certainly would question if one of my kids was involved in photography"
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One sees the request for someone, anyone, to do a story about him, please, please, please...from, no one other than himself - ottawa.openfile.ca/ottawa/suggested/local-photographer-bu...
One wonders, is it pimping or solicitation if one does it for and to oneself...
;)
Posted 5 months ago.
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And while what he says may be upseting, in that article, there's inherently nothing wrong with what he's stated...
Posted 5 months ago.
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Upsetting? How? He's repeating something that has been around for a while, and in fact, banging on the same old trope that print journalists have since the eruption of social web.
"Mass availability of digital tools is wreaking havoc on existing business models that were not predicated on social media/networking channels and which had built-in cost considerations that have been overtaken by technological developments"
If he had something new to say, or a vision of where the digital marketplace will be in ten to twenty years, great; otherwise, it's something that has been said before, much better, and by someone else.
But no, I don't think there's anything wrong; just nothing new.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Stop hanging around people who have given up:
(last paragraph)
lukecopping.com/blog/index.php/lessons-for-2012/
Posted 5 months ago.
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+1 to the "Stop hanging around people who have given up." Good blog post.
Posted 5 months ago.
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There's some truth to what he says, but he makes a few wrong assumptions. He seems to imply that demand for photography is directly proportional to the size of the population. I can't speak for Couvrette, but I often think for some of the old timers it's all about a futile attempt to protect their market share by discouraging new photographers.
Yes, the printing press probably put a lot of the monks who printed books by hand out of business. The automobile put a lot of blacksmiths out of business. Automated telephone switching put a lot of the old-style phone operators out of business. But overall, all these industries have grown astronomically in their new form and created many more opportunities for every job lost.
Those who adapt well to the new technologies and business models have nothing to worry about.
Posted 5 months ago.
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@preciouskhyatt FYI they were doing a story last week on a condo I am in litigation with and yes, once the interviewer was in my studio the second story came up...my post-in request was needed as a formality.
@Richard...I don`t need to discourage new photogs...they do that very well by their own actions...it just takes them a few years to realize the truth...sooner if they have a wife with a calculator...lol. Your point on keeping up with new technologies and business models is very valid...but as someone who introduced digital to this marketplace in 92 and has lectured on the biz in Canada, the US and Europe, I think you are dead wrong in this case. You have swallowed the theory that technological progress creates jobs...that so 90`s....Yes, I have a lot to say that is new...but the article was not targetted to entertain photogs.
I like your comment about the relationship between population and proportional demand...but my take is that while demand may well increase in the digital world, supply increases at a greater pace...lets hear more.
@Jean...given up...hardly. My definition of that is people who work so cheaply that they have given up on themselves.
Posted 5 months ago.
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“The ability to shoot a billion pictures of something going on, and to get ten good ones, has changed the whole dynamic of the biz…some of these people are not bad; a lot are terrible, but some of them aren’t bad. So what happens is that they then decide to set up a website, put up a dozen images, and then, bingo, they’re in business…and they take a general bite out of the marketplace,” says Couvrette.
Interesting take on the ability to take lots of shots being to blame for their ability to turn out ten good shots. I agree that more people are able to hone their skills now that they can get instant feedback, but I don't think taking lots of pics means they will arbitrarily get ten good shots.
It sounds like you think that the people setting up businesses will be successful at it, and take a bite out of the available pie. I know a guy who owns a business (non-photography) and he has not been able to grow, and really has a hard time keeping his customers. Because he does okay work but he's an a$$hole. I know another guy who does the same quality of work and has to beat potential customers off with a stick...because he's a great guy. People don't buy products and services from companies, they buy them from people.
In a free market if your product is in demand and you have good name a hundred guys can open up next door and your customers will continue to come to you.
The REAL problem is that today's society wants everything cheap, and they want it now. If a newbie with some skill does an hour shoot for half your price and doesn't make the person come back to them to print then there is an ever growing portion of the population that will pick him over a person with your experience and skill. Sites like used and kijiji make them accessible to the masses who actively seek them out. That's the bigger problem, if you ask me.
Posted 5 months ago.
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I was hoping Paul would step up and answer :)
Posted 5 months ago.
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Well said!
Posted 5 months ago.
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We hang on hardest before the fall. Pride and all. The biz is dead,
we've become cliches by trying to convince ourselves otherwise. We can
have this conversation now, or in 10 years. I prefer now. Change is
the only constant. My dreams of working in a video store are forever
crushed as well. All we have now is nostalgia.
Move on, adapt and think differently... or be left behind.
Posted 5 months ago.
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@Stewart...
Blaming the internet is like blaming your wife`s pregnancy on the fact that her cousin bought his condoms at the dollar store....
Posted 5 months ago.
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Whhaaaaa??? Was that an incest joke????
Posted 5 months ago.
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They have condoms at the dollar store?
It's difficult to have proper perspective when you're at the top of the game. Condom distributors see no decrease regardless.
Originally posted 5 months ago.
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Jericho777 (a group admin) edited this topic 5 months ago.
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I tend to agree with Paul's view. It is a pretty candid look at the state of affairs.
I love photography, but reality is that I would be a bit of a starving artist if I would do it for a job. Although many can make it as a good wedding photographer, there are dozens of people on Kijiji who are willing to do it for $200... and give you the negatives. In a tough economy, it's hard to compete with that if you are providing a premium product.
Times are a changing, so it is best to be honest with ourselves and accept that change and not be ignorant of it.
Posted 5 months ago.
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This conversation is pretty interesting a side of the condoms thing.
About photography is a challenging choice like so many others professions. I use to be commercial pilot, and suddenly the aviation business just got bad, recession, sept 11 , oil prices and so on.I got
quit for health reasons but any way at that moment the chances to have a secure jobs was minimum.
Bottom line at this moment the business are booming again and here in Canada the Airlines are Hiring foreign pilots to fill their needs, and the Canadian pilots are flying in Asia and in high Demand. But 10 years ago no one was thinking or predicting that this will happen .
yes most of the new generation are tasting the Honey.
we don't really know what is gonna happen in the Photography business is in a constant development and the new technology is changing by day, So in my personal approach what I'm doing is keeping the pace and be with the new challenges no fear , no cry I believe that what you do with love and passion would make you a better professional person as day pass by. :-)
Posted 5 months ago.
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@Couvrette - the point I was making seems to have been missed. You would seem to be stating the following things
1) Availability of cheap technology to the masses has resulted in an astronomical increase in the number of people able to take better pictures (your example of the billion shots, ten good captures)
2) Online/digital channels have allowed anyone and everyone to enter into what previously was a brick and mortar only business (your example of the slap a dozen shots on the web and open a business) which decreases market share for existing businesses (your taking a slice of the pie)
Yet, and I think this was the irony I was pointing out, you are using the exact same channels and the exact same digital medium to complain about how those self-same channels and medium are the end of photography as we knew it. Using social media to complain about the effects of social media...
Decry the thing that pays for that condo you mention? Bite the hand that feeds you much?
Part of my daily job is to try and imagine what will be trends ten to fifteen years from now and how they will impact our daily lives; to be honest with you, with wireless data streaming capabilities increasing as they are, and with portable HD video cameras shrinking in size and increasing in resolution, we will see the first wave of "live-life blogging" occuring within ten years - people who stream video of their daily lives, in HD, 24/7, from cameras that fit in the brim of a hat, or the arm of a pair of sunglasses. When people automatically capture every moment in their lives for posterity, what is the role of photography?
So what I wanted to hear from you was what you thought could be the future of photography - is it 3D? Is it video? Is it niche commercial advertising and sports? What about the fact that broadcast network cameras have developed to the point where a still from them is as good if not better than many digital cameras - what then the role of sports photographers?
In any event, good luck and keep up the good work.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Ahhh... the future :)
www.imdb.com/title/tt0364343/combined
Posted 5 months ago.
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1) Availability of cheap technology to the masses has resulted in an astronomical increase in the number of people able to take better pictures (your example of the billion shots, ten good captures)
I can`t believe you didn`t get the reference...I was hoping it was clear that a high noise to signal ratio was NOT a good thing. I should be less subtle in the future since the new generation seems to have ingrained the concept of mass imagery versus the "decisive moment" to such an extent that they prefer a forest to a tree.
You have also missed my point about digital technology....I don`t "blame" it for anything. The marketplace always rules and it has a voracious appetite for chewing up the bottom of all supply chains.There are roughly 4000 community college grads in photography in Ottawa currently with less than a handful making
a salary that matches my office manager....need I say more.
I have been a consultant to three large digital organizations...Corel, Kodak and Agfa...they paid me lots of money but took little of my advice...but I`m still here..they are not. Good luck.
Posted 5 months ago.
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HCB references? Subtle, they are not; more like a dead fish in a stale room. They point out the disconnect between what was and what is - no better illustration than the answer to this question.
What was the imagery that captured "the decisive moment" the best last year?
Here's a hint - none of us have seen it.
The footage taken by Team 6, the pilots from the 160th and whichever attendant three letter people were onboard is without a doubt the "decisive moment" from 2011 - and it was taken by low-light video cameras strapped to a bunch of non-photographers.
Info noise to signal filtering has changed in a quantum manner - case in point? Successful multi-media conglomerates have recently become not merely content delivery mechanisms, but also content owners, especially in the sports market. Every moment of the product development, capture and distribution is owned and managed by the company - creating as much product as possible (mass imagery) and profiting from it through as many diverse channels is the name of the game. The move is towards as much content as possible, all the time, through whichever media the consumer chooses, be it TV, internet or mobile devices. To argue that Rogers has made a poor business decision would be to ignore the decade long investment made by super-powers in this realm, such as NESN/Red Sox and YESNetwork/Yankees&Man U.
When it comes to the individual, who are you to tell them how many good pictures they are allowed to take? That is the only thing I can take from your statement - if someone wants to fill an 8GB card with shots of their child only to keep ten of them, so what?
Are you saying that cuts into your bottom line because they didn't come to you to get a professional portrait done?
Or are you saying that the person who is just starting out and requires maybe twice as long as you do to put out less qualified work isn't worth the individual deciding how much money they have to spend on a memory?
If you're making enough to pay your office manager more than they make in a year, what skin is it off your nose?
I guess what I'm left with is this - what exactly is it that you are trying to say? Digital isn't to blame for anything, but it has changed the dynamic of the biz - ok, which is it? If you are saying that it changed the dynamic, then you are saying that digital technology is responsible for the paradigm shift in professional photography.
If it isn't, then what is?
And if you think that the marketplace always chews up the bottom of all supply chains, you haven't been involved in very many large-scale multi-country projects recently. Take it from someone who has worked with some of the largest resource extraction conglomerates out there, cost rules. A lot has, is and will be excused if things come in under budget and ahead of time, both with regards to tangible product and human capital.
Posted 5 months ago.
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A) "If you're making enough to pay your office manager more than they make in a year, what skin is it off your nose?"
Algonquin costs the taxpayers 100k per student to churn out units that do not contribute to the GDP.
B)The paradigm shift has nothing to do with digital...technology simply allowed human behavior to find its lowest tipping point.
C)Yes cost rules...I work for dozens of multinationals...I am discussing small business.There are many complexities in big business, from government handouts to slave labour. Your point is a red herring.
D) Now with the "millions of shots" phrase you are even more confused. I am not discussing people shooting their family snaps at all...I am talking about the fact that a D class photographer can now shoot a large number of shots and get a few good ones...making him look like a B class photographer. My point on that whole issue is that this works fine in some cases...but not when the job is critical or the subjects time is worth money...both the types of jobs I am called to do.
Posted 5 months ago.
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A) Those people go on to get jobs, in photography or not, and they pay taxes, like you and I. They will end up paying back a lot more than 100K to the government.
B) Digital is the technology. If you think this is humanity's lowest tipping point, you really need to get out more. Spend some time in some dusty, mountainous places; then you might reconsider your statement and how melodramatic it is...
C) Your simulated context is a false construct - small or large, cost efficiencies have become the major driving factor in business. One would argue that they always have been, but are merely more explicit now. Consumers weigh the same issues when deciding on any purchase - quality vs cost/time. Doesn't matter what, be it portraits or automobiles, you make that choice - am I willing to pay more for either higher quality/less time or does the environment force me into spending less for lower quality/wasted time.
D) This seems to be your real issue - that people you qualify as D photographers are able to catch B shots, and that cuts into your bottom line because they can market themselves as being a 'better' photographer than you think they really are.
If that's the case, they will do a poor job and not get repeat business. And as mentioned above, quality always sells.
So, am I understanding you now?
Posted 5 months ago.
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Getting popcorn...
Posted 5 months ago.
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Yes.
But....A) They flood a market with substandard work and lower consumers impression of the existing participants...plus...they are not given the opportunity to discover their true skills...all at a cost to the taxpayer.
C) In small business, the business person who succumbs to lower pricing and more time per transaction generally ends up less happy in life. I was friends with many of the last generation...the current gen are not having fun...and will have a lot less by the time they retire..if they make it to that time.
D) Yes, that would be a good summary...but quality always sells is so far from the truth the bulk of modern consumerism that you surely have to be joking. From food to clothing to home construction all aspects prove you wrong.
Posted 5 months ago.
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@preciouskyhatt - really, really great responses.
@Corvette - My wife interviewed for you years ago, and you gave her very good advice to focus on graphic design and not waste her talent editing pictures...she also insists that you are a very nice man so I'm going to ignore your somewhat tasteless incest comment above and ask you one question:
If you are an A(+ in terms of the Ottawa market in MY opinion) photographer, why do you care that D photographers (in your learned opinion) manage to get B shots and book clients that likely never would have paid the fees associated with your A level services anyway? Your experience, talent and reputation demand a level of client that isn't perusing web sites looking for B level shots. In reality, you were probably a B level photographer early in your career and it was only through practice, learning and determination that you got to where you are today. If a person churns out a B shot and recognizes it then they will likely attempt to re-create it and learn to do it, making them a better photographer.
My take on all this, btw, is not as a pro...nor is it from someone that is attempting to go pro. I probably make 4-5x what you pay your office manager in my job, but I've had a love of photography since my uncle gave me an AE-1 when I was in my early 20's. My observations about the internet are purely based on the fact that today's society is connected and they know how to find information. In the glory days people had an brick and mortar shop, an ad in the yellow pages, and they had the training required to make every frame of film count. Those days are over, and it's not the fault of the people that now have access to digital gear, it's the fault of the broad consumer that isn't willing to pay inflated prices to cover the overhead of a traditional photographer who has the costs of the brick and mortar shop and associated staff. If someone with unlimited money looked at your portfolio and mine side by side, they'd pick yours every day of the week. If someone with a restricted budget thought my portfolio was good enough for their price point it would likely be a different story.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Stuart....
The anecdote was metaphorical...
Your statement that consumers are not willing to pay the price for staff and mortar is only valid if one hopes for a future of low quality good supplied online from the third world. Since you happen to be in that business, your statements make perfect sense and I would be remiss not to agree that this is the future. This is about to get substantially worse as we are currently at the mid point of a vast inflationary spiral.
Your use of the word "inflated" is telling, in that all goods find their selling point. The trend now is to turn the business of photography into a cottage industry...which is of course a regression. One cannot categorically say that consumers are to blame. I would put more blame on flaws in our societal structure and resulting labour/education system that has evolved. The structure creates adherants to photography who may in fact have the skills, but lack the confidence to charge a rate that will earn them a moderate income. I don`t buy the notion that middle class consumers lack the budget for mid to hi end photographers. While I do agree that this is true moreso in Ottawa...the average family spends close to $5k per annum on cell phones so the plea of budget rings a bit hollow.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Pass the popcorn Jericho...and get me a beer from the fridge when you are up will you...
Posted 5 months ago.
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I work in the computer industry where everyone wants the latest technology at the lowest price, with the best warranty and wants tech support to be located in North America so they can "understand" what the person on the phone is saying.
Lowest price and best quality are mutually exclusive.
I'm postulating that consumers, in general, want lower prices. For everything. The current trends photographers of your caliber are seeing are indicative of this. You can't blame people who are buying new gear and getting 10 B quality shots for that...the blame falls solely on the people who are willing to accept that quality of work...because they like instant pudding.
Posted 5 months ago.
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On that note we are in 100% agreement....
Btw...if Dell is paying you 250K I think you should buy the beer for
Jericho and I....
Posted 5 months ago.
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Sorry, was off getting myself better edumacated - now, where were we...
Ahh, yes
A) Flood the market with substandard work and lower consumers impression of the existing participants? How exactly does this occur and how does it affect you in a negative manner? Your work is your work; no one will mistake it for mine. If someone who falls into this "D" class of photographer uses the best of their best to showcase their talent, and anyone with a discerning eye puts it beside yours, the differences will be obvious. If you don't feel that, then you may either be underestimating the potential quality of the competition, or you are feeling doubts about your own skill. Whatever the case, a flood of poor quality work makes yours stand out even moreso by comparison. Would you really want to be shooting for those people who couldn't tell the difference in the first place?
C) I know people who have, even in these past few tumultuous years, gone ahead and started small businesses. They are learning as they go, as all small business owners do, and their time per transaction is decreasing with every job completed. It's learning, and it's something we all do. The fact that they love what they do makes the time spent not wasted, but appreciated. Otherwise, as you say, it becomes purely transactional, and if you want that, grab a job at a bank.
D) Perhaps we shop at different places and for different things. Trust me, quality still sells, and always will. I'm not talking your McMansions, or department store name brands . Quality is very much in high demand - wait times for truly bespoke items bear witness to the fact. Same with wait times at good restaurants - it's all about where you set your bar for quality...
Enjoy the beer and popcorn!
Posted 5 months ago.
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+10 PK I just bitten my tong .. I'm do good Ehhhh . but in this case more to enjoy a beer witch is to Mediocre for the"A+" at least the few ones I know and I thank God for this. A more appropriated beverage can be Champagne :-) Cheers.
Posted 5 months ago.
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A) We are getting close to the heart of the matter now...and here is the rub. My experience tells me that a large part of the population can spot a D from an A...but not a B from an A....
B)You wimped out on my points attacking your notion that "quality always sells". That is at the core of the issue...consumers have gradually accepted lower quality in the majority of their products particularly in the last decade. There are exceptions in many sectors of course, but in general, those shoes you bought from Vietnam that fell apart after a year are part of an inflationary spiral that not only inhibits our manufacturers but comes to roost on the environment. Your generation accepts that a digital camera must be replaced every few years. My Hasselblads were built to last 50 years. The savings in bricks and mortar have been offset by tech expenses...a sinkhole in financial terms.
C) There are businesses where the TPT is declining...photography is not one of them. I have the numbers..As far as people loving what they do..I would love to find a Mercedes mechanic who loves what he does so much that he will give me a tuneup on the cheap...they seem rare as hens teeth.
D)Yes there is always a market for quality, but that window has shrunk or closed in many sectors of photography from stock to weddings.
Posted 5 months ago.
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A) Yes, they can - it's through the price point. Put a Camry, an S550 and an AMG S63 up for sale. Those who can tell the difference between the brands are your A vs B buyers. From that category, there will be a portion who can tell the difference between the AMG and the regular Benz. If you are AMG, that is your target audience. You will never get the Camry buyers, and you will waste too much time and effort on the S550 buyers. Surprising thing? All three cars sell. Go figure...so, are you building S550s or are you building S63s?
B) I am going to assume you are speaking about another part of your post decrying my statement that quality always sells. It does, and each market segment finds the level of quality it feels it can afford in cost/time/quality trade-offs. Sure, your shoes may have fallen apart, but my Euro-made combat boots are still going strong after a lot of hard miles in hard places. Sure, had to wait a bit to get them, and they might have cost more than other options, but quality sells. Not for everyone, of course, but if I start to think that I can dictate not only taste but spending habits to others I would want my friends to pop my ego.
My generation? Paul, before you get yourself even further down the rabbit hole, you know nothing about me or from what generation I may be. My 50 year-old Hasselblad is going quite strong, thanks, and I'm still banging away on the first brand new digital camera I ever bought. Know why? Probably because I went with quality, something that still sells.
C) Yes, TPT is declining. It is an average, and a law of progression. I have witnessed the progression in people I have met through Flickr - Headshots that took 45 minutes to set up, try, chimp, re-arrange, shoot, chimp, etc are second nature to them, set up and done in 10 minutes and better in quality than their 45 minute work. There is an end-point to that improvement curve (as the shoot has to take place), but sure, bring your numbers to the table. Go ahead - all major production firms, of pretty much any product, are built around the idea that production can be increased through elimination of redundant steps, meaning they can make more in less time. If you think you have discovered the antithesis to this, I'd love to see it.
Your comment about loving what you do and wanting me to give you the name of my Benz mechanic seems somewhat disjointed, but I'll take a stab at it anyway. Yes, many people love what they do; I'm one of them, and I know a lot of others who do as well. We still expect to get paid for our labours, but we don't loathe getting up in the morning and going to the office. Could I make more from somewhere else for my skills and services? Yes, without a doubt, but you reach a point where the money increase isn't the end-all and be-all. Maybe I'm lucky that way... My mechanic really likes what he does as well, that's probably why he specialized in antique Mercs after going through the regular training regimen. So do the guys who work on my Caddy, but that garage is just a fun place to visit, and I think they would make a good time out of whatever situation they found themselves in. Attitude counts, eh?
D) Or the market has more and more good photographers out there, or the gap between good and great has shrunk, or the economy has tanked and people just aren't as willing to shell out for what they may view as frivolities...I still see lots of really good wedding photos, and while I may not be able to take one, I'm also not going to try and tell a happy couple that the shot they love looks like a "B" pic to me.
Posted 5 months ago.
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"Btw...if Dell is paying you 250K I think you should buy the beer for
Jericho and I...."
I may have under-estimated what you pay your office manager, my apologies. Still, I make quite a bit more than what you have indicated one of the handful of successful photographers in the city makes.
Also, I'm somewhat hurt that you looked me up on LinkedIn to figure out where I work, but you didn't add me.
Also, I'd be happy to buy you and Jericho a beer, as long as you both teach me how to produce A shots on a more regular basis :)
Posted 5 months ago.
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The discussion is off in too many directions and I am becoming bored...
If you want to give the name of that Merc mechanic that works for the price of anyone here per hour I am all ears since I do own a 74 450SL that needs a tuneup.
It`s not worth discussing TPT with someone unless they actually run a biz and my guess is that you do not...I figure you for about 35 with about 10 years working with the Feds..mid range job...most likely DND. Wrong..won`t be the first time...so correct me. I don`t hide behind nicknames...never will.
Me...well, I am just someone who finds amusement in hearing the business advice of photographers whose salaries are substantially less than my property taxes and whose gross is less than my worst years net....
Now those would have to be photographers with big egos indeed.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Hahahah...Stuart...I am sure you do and good for you. I`m betting you earn more than I do...thank goodness I have other business interests.
Get it together with Jericho and get in touch...
I suppose someone will deduce something bad from this...but I have over 150 FB friend requests and 50 Linked In requests but I do not friend photographers....nothing personal...just nice to keep it compartmentalized.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Wrong, really wrong, and nah, hiding behind blocky faces is for others, not me. If you had requisite skills, you'd already know.
Grow some, come talk, we'll have some fun. Until then? Plaything.
And money? Son, never fear for me.
Have a good one and stay safe.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Jesus, I would never, ever pay someone with the holier-than-thou attitude expressed in Mr Couvrette's last two posts to take a picture of my dog, let alone me or my family.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Holy Humbleness!
It's a business you go into because your an egocentric. It's a very embarrassing profession.
Katharine Hepburn
Posted 5 months ago.
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Actually, I will thank you for one thing Paul - you mistook me for serving with our Forces. That's a compliment, no matter how you slice it, and after working closely with our men and women in uniform I take it as such.
Apart from that?
Let's put it this way. I wouldn't want you with me on the flight to KM50. I don't think your business acumen would really cut it with the competition...
Posted 5 months ago.
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My business doesn`t target Mamarazzis....
Egocentric....thats a phrase used by people who don`t have enough respect for themselves to admit they are not very successful and don`t have the guts to really be in business.
Business acumen....I have been paid to lecture across North America and Europe....perhaps the wannabees here missed my talks.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Man, is this thread going to anywhere useful, beyond the current pissing match? I seriously doubt it.
Jericho, grab me a beer as well, pass the popcorn, and make some room on the couch.
Posted 5 months ago.
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nope. it's not going anywhere so if ya'll can't chill your passive aggressive swipes at each other and discuss civilly I'm closing it down.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Sorry to have bored you Mike...let me spice it up a bit....
Hey Dani...you do realize that you charge less than Walmart for an 8 by 10.....LMAO.
You Need an Ego girl.....
Posted 5 months ago.
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If Walmart is the benchmark for anything... wow.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Actually Becka I think is not something offensive in this thread and language is proper ,and all us have the right to disagree and express our points of view in a polite way, that is what make a forum . I saw before really Nasty threads on the the group , I recognized my bad in the old times but this one is not more than a thread, yes maybe is direct but no Nasty. my point of view.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Whaaat...I actually agree with Fernando...
Posted 5 months ago.
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The language is fine, the attitude is not. I don't want people to be all shiny sparkly everything is peachy but insulting members of the group etc is IMHO not acceptable.
Posted 5 months ago.
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And continue and in a polite way I just want to say that some people can't
'know about respect even if it hit them in the face!
Posted 5 months ago.
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Well I'm not agree with you Becka, what if the other Moderators and Adms make a point? just suggesting also we can ask to other members if the feel insulted?
Posted 5 months ago.
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Btw...I am heading out to Dani`s for a new portrait...but if Pat wants one for his screensaver all he needs to do is Google Image me...lol.
Posted 5 months ago.
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I think price drop is the last resort of the unimaginative. I do believe there's still a strong market out there. Most of my clients have rarely chosen me because of my prices and portfolio. For me, its a people business, and that'll aways stay. Besides, I can't possibly compete traditionally in this market.
That said, I want Leon as my photographer. Have you seen this guy's charisma? Love ya dude!
Posted 5 months ago.
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Interesting take on it miao...but perhaps you should have kicked off the second post which was a bit of a swipe....you can`t just censor when someone fires back.
Posted 5 months ago.
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My business has targets, agreed, but I think that the customer service side of it is perhaps a little more rough and tumble than anything you have ever been able to handle in your life Paul.
Now, I'm off, to help keep you living in the comfortable bubble you enjoy. Live easy son, people are watching out for you.
I don't want your thanks, I do this for honor.
Originally posted 5 months ago.
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preciouskhyatt edited this topic 5 months ago.
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There's a valid discussion about how digital technology has changed the photography business, and whether by lowering the barrier to entry it has somehow caused a race to the bottom.
I think though that certain old timer photographers do themselves no favours if they refuse to accept that the industry has changed and they need to adapt. Simply being bitter towards the new generation of photographers is ultimately self destructive.
There will always be people looking for bargain basement prices, and others willing to pay a higher dollar for quality. But people don't shop on product and price alone -- they also want a pleasant buying experience.
A photographer who is angry, blames others and hates the world is going to drive away customers much faster than one who charges more, but provides the customer with excellent quality and buying experience.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Mike you Right for us "The emergent"Photographer this is a peoples business and yes I vote for Leon too I want him to be my photographer but so far I got for him was almost and indecent picture of my !!!! LOL
But yes I love you recall him Is one of the most extraordinary photographers I ever meet ,he is publish in a big international Magazines he made the main cover in some of this publications and he is the guy how literally will take the shirt to help others photographers, My point is that you can be the last Coca Cola in the dessert but you lack of Human Charisma well you got a problem .
I suggest to all us to read a bit from Buddha , Gandhi, and John Lennon.
Peace and love
Posted 5 months ago.
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My ancestors have not missed a battle since the Carignan Salieres and my father is the last living D-Day commando of Ottawa Regiment...we know rough and tumble quite well.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Paul, I have been busy and not giving much attention to flickr until today. Trust me, there would have been a warning earlier about it if I had been reading the forums thoroughly. I'm not censoring - if I was going that route, posts would have been deleted and the thread locked down already. I'm asking everyone involved to be an adult and have a civil discussion.
Originally posted 5 months ago.
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miaouphoto edited this topic 5 months ago.
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@ Richard...to adapt I would have to pay my staff less and have them work longer hours and weekends. This is where the marketplace is going.
As far as a pleasant buying experience, our staff are great and the buying experience is such that we have clients who have been with us for 30 years.
Not trying to diss you, but I don`t believe there are more than one or two people on this forum who actually have an understanding of the business. Mario Menard would be one.
Much of what photographers say is sadly something they recite to put themselves to sleep at night.
Angry...not really. I have made my living very nicely in Ottawa...I simply believe I am the last wave of this profession who will enjoy that honor.
Posted 5 months ago.
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You feel better now Paul? Taking vicious, personal shots at me because I found a way to do something I love?
Shameful.
Posted 5 months ago.
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You mention Mario Menard, he have the Quality and the Charm Mario I have the pleasure to know him personally and he is great old school photographer but he is on the Go, keeping the quality of his work with the Digital media, but not just that he is a warm and humble down to the earth person. I also noticed that you say that you don't look for friends special in the net, but you belong to all the photographic groups possible in the net, what you are there? let's face your fears Paul, you are there to JUDGE and to watch how the movement is on and how the Shadows are covering your sky, you tray to show that your Inner Circle are the # 1, well Paul just to you Know that most of this persons, are that a persons warm and humble and great photographers we Know that numero # 1 in this moment and all ready for couple years Is Gord Weber and all the times that I meet him, I meet before the photographer the person I learn from him and he inspire me, other Photographers Like Don Mc Donald ( publish on Vouge) is inspirational. Garry Black Old school but a gentleman and a great Instructor Leon Twizzer a. I can assure you ,no one of this persons lost any sleep because photographers like me. but you . you need some help Paul sincerely you are full of fear you know that your Down the hill is on motion , be free Paul let the fears off, enjoy life and accept it with Dignity the Sunset of your time, joy the ride of the wave you are but do it with joy and freedom
Let the people say after all wow he was a great Photographer and great person, some times you try to insinuate that you are the New Karsh and you say that the brothers the Masters they where your friends that is a really Honor why you don't try to leave a legacy like them but so far Paul you are far far from that you don't impress me with your work but that is me ehhh a 0 on the left for you, but I have a really good nights sleep and I love Photography and one day one day I will be like the other photographers I mention here, not just because they are a part of my inspiration more because they a gentleman's.
Joy the ride and good luck Paul.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Mr. Couvrette,
I don't think anyone here would ever want to take anything away from you for the success you've had and the career you've made.
what I can't fathom is what your motivation is for dropping by to, in effect, sh*t on the little people. At least that's how it seems to me.
Is it do discourage people? To make yourself feel better? A really, really failed attempt at humour? What?
Don't think you come off very good here. You COULD be offering some constructive comments based on your experience. Instead, you just seem like an arrogant @ss- which I would hope is not how you present yourself face to face. Not that I really care, nor do I imagine you care about my opinion either.
but hey - the internet is democratic so I get to say it anyway.
Just my .0226 cents worth (HST-adjusted)
(And I see that you - or a mod - deleted that last post. A fine choice.)
Originally posted 5 months ago.
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silliopolous edited this topic 5 months ago.
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It's hard to argue with someone who makes assumptions about others without actually knowing them. So I hesitate to make assumptions about you, Paul, without knowing you.
Still, I was struck by a statement in the interview article where you said you love your job. Somehow, I don't believe you.
The really great people in any field tend to be humble and don't need to belittle others or brag about their own credentials. The people I've met in the photography business who I most admire are very down-to-earth, humble, generous people who have no ax to grind or need to prove themselves to others.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Just for the record, he or someone is now deleting comments in this thread...
Posted 5 months ago.
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Then point your father towards this screed Paul, and ask him if he thinks you are behaving with the honor and maturity that he had. Let him know you won't stand by what you write and have to delete posts. Ask him if that's the kind of behaviour expected from someone in uniform.
Posted 5 months ago.
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I deleted it (and then had to step away from the computer for a family situation before I could finish posting). I felt that his last post was just outright trolling for responses and egging people on to give him a negative reaction.
Originally posted 5 months ago.
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miaouphoto edited this topic 5 months ago.
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Paul,
I met you once at your studio and we chatted for a while about the state of photography. You came across as being intelligent and personable, now you are coming across as rude and childish. This might be a good time to walk away rather than embarass yourself further.
Posted 5 months ago.
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I'm just going to close this guys. It's going no where.
Posted 5 months ago.
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