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Don't worry, the military have got those pesky photographers under control..
www.ifex.org/haiti/2010/02/04/camera_confiscated/
Posted 28 months ago.
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SD: what did you think of that NYT blog and comments that EI laurenc linked to?
(I haven't figured out what I think of it yet, still reading the comments)
About the jfex link, this sentence : "It is time for Haiti's own journalists to be playing a leading role again" about sums it up.
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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teh resa edited this topic 28 months ago.
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Therrr, I think there will always be a rush of photographers flocking to any disaster for their own personal portfolios, that's just how it is and I can't see it changing.
I'd just like whoever goes there with a camera to show respect to the people they're photographing and sadly that doesn't seem to happen as much as it should (the picture of the woman pulled from the rubble and surrounded by people pointing a camera at her for example).
It would be great if photographers had to earn the right to shoot vulnerable people, that they had to prove over time that their motives were genuine, that they were there because they felt it was a story that needed to be told and not for personal selfish reason.
It might seem naive but I always try to think how I'd feel if it was my kids, what would I consider okay?
Guess I'll never make a news journalist.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Thanks. Just wondering what people participating in this thread thought of it. At the top of the blog it says:
The following post raises engaging, important and contentious questions.
Yeah, maybe. I did not see the presence of media as such a big deal but I guess lots of others are bothered by it.
Posted 28 months ago.
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The NYTimes says "At one point there were almost certainly too many photographers in Haiti. But which point?"
There's too many photographers in London. There's too many photographers in Southend. So what - kill 'em all?
I would have preferred just for Jim Nachtwey's more thoughtful vision to be beamed around the world, instead of hundreds of pro-photographers competing to get the same shot of the same girl, but this is mass media. Tragedy = News = Entertainment.
The public gets what the public deserves.
Posted 28 months ago.
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sweet distin wrote "It would be great if photographers had to earn the right to shoot vulnerable people".
It would be great if I had the right to shoot (with a gun) people with vulnerable ideas. ;)
Posted 28 months ago.
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how rude.
:)
Posted 28 months ago.
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I was not impressed with Nacteway's Haiti photos. Compositionally they were too formal, and compact. He can make those photos wherever he shoots.
I just don't find his style all that appealing. To each their of course...
Posted 28 months ago.
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When i saw the online slideshow of Nachtwey's Haiti photos they didn't really do anything for me. But then i saw this one printed across a double page spread it made me stop and look.
Which probably says more about the chances of these tablet computers saving the publishing industry than anything else.
Posted 28 months ago.
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well i have spoken to will recently about the fallout from all of this. he was none to impressed with the attitude of some of the people in this flickr group.
i think that a lot of you don't realize that haiti has so many victims and that was the message he was trying to convey. it would be IMPOSSIBLE not to return to the states after photographing there without some photos of the victims. this kind of work displays the full magnitude of the tragedy. it is unfortunate that kind of photography has to be used to jar people into action, but it is one of those cold facts of life.
i will say it again - the way all of you jumped onto will and tried to damage his repuation was unfair and bordering on slanderous. people like arty smokes, ben roberts, curidogenes, james dodd - you all know who you are and what you are guilty of. will is a photographer of the highest caliber who was taught in the same vein as the nachtwey school - shoot now, answer the tough questions later.
did any of you cross examine nachtweys photos that were recently published in an online journal? the answer is no, because:
a) his motives are without question
b) he would sue your pathetic asses if you dared tried
c) you wouldn't have the bravery
will is his own man, but very similar to james in shooting style. you are all a jealous lot of wannabes who lack the foresight to capture the pciutures that will ultimately move people into action. basicallty a bunch of losers higing behind their expensive cameras. get out into the real world and shoot something of importance instead of your local street corner. its a big world out there boys and girls.
Posted 28 months ago.
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If we cross-examine or criticize an artist we can get sued for slander? What fucking universe do you live in?
Posted 28 months ago.
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Just went there. Did so about two weeks after the earthquake and it's certainly a different situation. Most images that came out of the media outlets are not quite accurate in its portrayal...not exactly dishonest, but not representative of the actual situation. Things aren't as bad as one might think or if they are, then it's in a different manner...
Few photojournalists there...didn't see all that many, actually. The type of photography one would pursue now is quite different than the ones right after the earthquake, I imagine. We brought in food and water, but it wasn't necessary. There's food and water available, but the question is more of a matter of poverty and distribution. There's enough supplies there, but distributing it without riots and chaos is not possible at the time.
Different set of problems are occuring now...sanitation, compromised immune system, infection - more people are seeking medical aid as the days go by...I use to live in a refugee camp for a few months as a child and so the problems associated the displacement of so many people and the tent cities that spring up hold a special interest in me.
Since interest seems to be waning, there are many stories that could and should be told. Instead of the in-your-face, reactive, possibly world-press-photo type of images, there are possibilities to go into deeper social type of essays.
There's not really any available running water and such...I wouldn't go unless you're really dedicated and don't mind being extremely inconvenienced.
Posted 28 months ago.
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I know I'm a little late to the party, and I feel bad for referencing this thread as a party, but why is Haiti getting so much recognition now.
I know the earthquake that just hit qualifies the country as a disaster zone, but in reality the quake did half the damage their president has been doing for years now. Slavery, and kidnapping are 2 very profitable forms of trade in Haiti (the latter keeping the current regime in power), but now that a earthquake did physical damage the worlds eyes are on the country.
Haiti has been recently named the kidnapping capital of the world, forget Port Au prince, start thinking about city So lei. 80% of Haitians don't have work and kidnapping has been the only growth industry. Over 1,000 women were reported being raped in 2008 at the city Solei primary school. Haitian children are kidnapped and sold to rich families in the United states that want cheap labor...
I'm not trying to belittle the horrors that have recently befallen Haiti, but why does the world decide to help when things are the darkest? Donating money to organizations that are actually doing something worthwhile in the country is all well and good, but I would also be wary that the money doesn't fall into their governments hands.
I don't know what the right answer is, I just wish our countries didn't need to have such a violent push to decide to help out the 3rd world.
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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Michael Gene McGowan edited this topic 28 months ago.
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"will is a photographer of the highest caliber who was taught in the same vein as the nachtwey school - shoot now, answer the tough questions later."
but will didn't answer the questions.
Posted 28 months ago.
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It would be great if I had the right to shoot (with a gun) people with vulnerable ideas. ;)
www.2dayblog.com/2009/05/07/tactical-assault-long-range-c...
Posted 28 months ago.
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hyena, you need a new shtick. We get it: you like Will, and you don't like thinking. Give it a rest.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Lung S. Liu - thank you for posting, that was an interesting read.
hyena - artists are criticized all the time, it's part of what makes them better. Or so I believe. I wonder what Nachtwey would make of his name being repeatedly dropped by you into the discussion. FWIW, I didn't like Will's image, found it in poor taste since it had absolutely no context in this disaster beyond "omgDEAD". I don't doubt that Will could do much better.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Well said Annie.
If people in this room get sued for slander, there are going to be about 1 million Youtube commentators that are going to be in some serious shit...
Posted 28 months ago.
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Lumiere Images [deleted] says:
Hyena ,nachtwey's photos aren't being questioned because his job is to take photos of that nature and to publish them worldwide.
Will's photo was being questioned because it look like he was a disaster tourist who posted a photo of bad taste onto a mostly amateur photo community for some street cred. When he got rumbled by ben he failed to answer a simply question and instead got a art school girl and and you to back him up.
To me it is all in bad taste and the actual photo was surprisingly low grade.
Posted 28 months ago.
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I am really surprised that Will does not appear to want to get in a serious discussion about his work,if he had been able to answer a few relevant questions at the start,it would not have perpetuated into this situation.Its not so much about the photo for me but the lack of any intelligent feed back from him or his friends.
Posted 28 months ago.
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maybe because he thinks he has more serious things to do than discussing what he does in this oh so serious chit chat?
Posted 28 months ago.
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street hyena
could you please learn what the term slander means before batting it about on the internet in some shallow attempt to sound like you know what you're talking about?
what's happening/happened here isn't/wasn't/never will be slander (as long as the world stays sane). it's fair comment.... discussions about work... and all this is fine under free speech!
and to be honest given the platform, it could never be slander, this isn't spoken word. it's written. and it's on the internet, so it's published therefore it would be libel!
people usually get sues for deformation (through libel or slander), essentially it results through false giving of facts. like you expressing that we have done something which is deserving of being sued.
PS: nachtwey put his pictures in context. he wrote an article, he captioned the pictures et cetera.
now would we question nachtwey's pictures if they were placed out of context? say on a billboard? or even if he just put them on flickr in the same vein? I believe so.
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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Account inactive go to: www.jamesdodd.net (a group admin) edited this topic 28 months ago.
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"shoot now, answer the tough questions later"
Fair enough, but we're at the tough questions part and all we get is silence.
Posted 28 months ago.
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street hyena wrote [about Nachtwey]
"a) his motives are without question
b) he would sue your pathetic asses if you dared tried
c) you wouldn't have the bravery"
Bollocks. I'm actually a big fan of Nachtwey, but if he turned into a glory-seeker I'd slag him off, just as I've slagged off plenty of pros. Right now, he's one of the finest photographic storytellers we have. (Half a dozen Capa Awards attests to that). Brian F stated he wasn't keen on Nachtwey's style in this very thread, but Brian's not gonna get sued for posting an opinion.
My biggest criticism of Will's shot was that it wasn't "Nachtwey" enough. If you watch "War Photographer", you'll see that Nachtwey is truly brave when he goes to disaster zones. It's a wonder he's still alive, really, having been shelled and shot at numerous times, losing a few colleagues on the way. The (hopelessly optimistic) Nachtwey is trying to change the world with his powerful photographs. Will took what looked like a hipshot. Will's just a cultural tourist, shooting other people's misery for flickr credibility. By avoiding simple questions, Will has allowed people to make up their own minds about the reason for posting his image, and he's been found lacking. He could have just said "I thought it would be cool", and none of this would have happened.
Has anyone got a FotoSniper I can borrow? I fancy shooting a hyena.
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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Arty Smokes (deaf mute) edited this topic 28 months ago.
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Lung S. Liu - I took a look at the shots you posted, good work.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Thank you, travelight.
If you're interested, the complete slideshow is here:
www.photoshelter.com/gallery-slideshow/G0000KakefXXg0D8/
Lung.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Lumiere Images [deleted] says:
Excellent Lung!
Posted 28 months ago.
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So beautifully made.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Lung - very well done.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Lung S. Liu Amazing work. I don't think it's on your stream (yet), but the image of a "scavenging" guy passing a plastic doll to someone in the crowd is almost as heartbreaking as seeing human bodies being pulled from the rubble.
A truly excellent photo-story.
Posted 28 months ago.
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@Lung S. Liu - good to see what a photographer with sensitivity and the ability to make a beautiful photograph can do. It's really very good work, I would have been proud to make any of those shots.
I'm glad you went, and glad that you posted your work.
Posted 28 months ago.
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I was just looking at Hughes Léglise-Bataille's flickr series Nou bezwen ed which I think just got posted. I have not seen enough Haiti disaster photoessays to know how much it is the same as ordifferent from the rest, but I appreciated it.
I found two pictures to be especially beautiful, and I didn't feel; troubled about it. Both are about humanity.
The first speaks for itself. The second offers more than meets the eye, as the commentary explains.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Just been aware of this thread because Arty left a comment under one of my photos with a HCSP referrer which led me here. First, I must say (as I wrote under it) that Will's picture is of extremely bad taste, both in itself and the way it's presented to "us". What makes it so shocking for me is that aesthetically, it looks like a fashion shot from a teen magazine (the hard flash, the tilt, the apparent lack of composition, the snapshot look, etc.). It looks careless, superficial, like a very bad joke out of a creepie movie -except it's real. Second, the way it's presented, or better, the lack of presentation. It's just "in your face". What's the intent ?! Why showing just one picture, out of the blue, and why just this one ?! Again, it just looks like provocation, childish and irresponsible. I don't know what Will felt and what he intended (he answered nothing of substance under his picture), maybe it's very different from the impression I get from the result, but then again, you don't take and don't show pictures like this without thinking. You might have gone with the best intentions, but what you chose to show us reflects exactly the opposite.
Posted 28 months ago.
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BTW, you can (and in the particular case of Haiti, should) show corpses, but you can do it with both talent and humanity while still depicting the horror: photo by Julie Platner.
www.photoshelter.com/c/julieplatner/gallery-img-show/G000...
Posted 28 months ago.
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Oh, and one last thing (sorry to monopolize the thread !):
"will is a photographer of the highest caliber who was taught in the same vein as the nachtwey school - shoot now, answer the tough questions later"
Nachtwey is certainly NOT that kind of guy, and I don't see anything in common between Nachtwey and Will in terms of their photography (despite having worked as his "assistant" as his website proudly states ;-)
Posted 28 months ago.
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Hughes you are only "monopolizing" the thread beauce nobody else is saying anything. :)
I looked at the Julie Platner series you linked to and appreciated it as well. There were a fair number of repeat captions - more than in your series, which presented a step by step narrative - but her reason might have been to keep things as simple as possible and allow individual images to stand alone for the viewer. But this is getting into the nuts and bolts of photojournalism, which I know very little about.
Posted 28 months ago.
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@Lung S. Liu The quality of your work in that Haiti series is the kind of level I would like to aspire to. Not sure what else I can say other than haunting and breathtaking. Good work.
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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KJ (शिष्य) edited this topic 28 months ago.
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Thank you, all. It's a very personal work, but the series itself is not very marketable. There's just no interest in them unlike the immediate images....it'll be difficult to find an outlet for them.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Hughes Léglise-Bataille Julie's work is amazing.
I once (stupidly) said that still photos can't compete with the moving images on the TV news, but (for me) those frozen moments encapsulate the horror of the situation better than the TV crews did. The sense of movement and chaos comes across really well even though the shutter was probably firing at 1/500s or faster. It is documents such as those photos (and yours) that will serve as important historical artefacts, not the clips on YouTube.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Those are some very good photos, and Lung, I think your essay is great.
One thing: "Looters"? Did that word have to show up in half of Platner's captions? Granted, that was probably dictated by some editor in a cushy New York office, but come on, that's pretty arrogant, WSJ. Leave me with no food, water, government, or societal order for a few days, a couple meters from the dust that was once a grocery store, and I'm pretty goddamn sure I would "loot" said store. Give me a break.
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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krameroneill edited this topic 28 months ago.
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word.
Posted 28 months ago.
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krameroneill, feel exactly the same way. The lack of food is actually worse than that. There's aid, but it's not distributed. There's food, but they can't afford it. So you have a family with a pregnant wife, an infant and a couple of toddlers and they're all starving and crying...it's been a few days, your cuts and scrapes aren't healing and maybe are becoming infected because lack of food equals lowered immune system, etc...all that and there's food all around you and the stuff you're promised isn't coming even though they say it'll come the next day and they've been saying that for god knows how long...
...when I was there, I was taken to a restaurant just to be able to get away from the drudgery of eating spam or canned sardines with stale white bread, and all I saw there were journalists...the worst disaster this country has ever faced and it was as if it never happened there. So many can observe the tragedy...but they're not enough a part of it to really comprehend it...they go out and shoot, and when it gets dark, go back to their $300/night hotel, take a shower with running water, log on to their laptops with their gas generated electricity, and eat steak in a restaurant...no wonder it's so easy to call people who steal food from rubble "looters."
Posted 28 months ago.
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"stealing" food when youre starving, after an earthquake, is NOT looting. stealing TV's and basketball shoes 4 hours into a blackout is LOOTING.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Lung, you have helped me understand the realities of the situation in haiti more (in your postings here) than any news report i have watched or read.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Hughes Leglise - you must obviously live in la la land if you think that you know the inner workings of nachtwey's inner sanctum. You are a jerk plain and simple to cast such large assumptions around the shop. Do you know Will personally? How do you know about his connections to nachtwey? Get your damn facts straight before you spout your next round of bullsh**
Also, will answers the tough questions, but not in front of a public lynch mob orchestrated by curdiogenes, ben roberts, curdiogenes and particurlary this nasty man artsy smokes.
Lung's work while good, fails to portray the true scale of the tragedy that has befallen Haiti. Everyone knows there are looters there - that is a given. But what people fail to comprehend is the true essence of the disaster - the death and decay, something that Will has succintly managed to capture in one singular photo. Why tell an overly long story where people get snoozy when one photograph is all it takes to summarize the whole event??
And Arty Smokes, you are a rude, vile person. I don't appreciate your threats earlier in this thread. I want an apology>
Posted 28 months ago.
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How lucky am I to be mentioned twice!
Posted 28 months ago.
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Lung: That's really interesting. I suspected the situation was something like that, with journalists and the "global north" contingent in general being oddly detached from the event they were theoretically covering, but your words paint a much more vivid picture than what I had in my mind.
hyena: Aren't you ashamed of yourself yet? If not, there's something wrong with you. There's only one rude, vile person here, and if you can't figure out who it is, add "dense" to the description.
edit: and what the fuck are you talking about "everyone knows there are looters there"? The entire point I and others were making is that these people aren't looters, and only elitist idiots would refer to them as such (also, there are no "looters" in Lung's photos anyway; you might want to look at the essay before you say anything about it, simpleton).
I think your time here is done. Come back when you want to man up instead of taking anonymous swipes.
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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krameroneill edited this topic 28 months ago.
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street hyena Tell me who you actually are, and I'll think about it. (In a nasty, rude and vile manner, as is my custom, natch.)
Posted 28 months ago.
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The Guardian had a Haiti photo special on Thursday with many great images. The front cover was this one from the New York Times.
www.nytimes.com/packages/html/photo/2010-haiti/index.html...
Posted 28 months ago.
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It's really not possible to summarize an event of this scale and complexity with any one photograph. It's very difficult to even portray an aspect of it even with an entire series.
By saying that this one image encapsulates the entire range of what is happening only trivializes and dismisses all the things that that one image cannot express.
The real tragedy is all the lives that will be lost and all that suffering that will be experienced by the Haitians long after the press is gone. Those images are reactive...they document what has happened and cannot be changed. What about the things that CAN be changed? The lives that CAN be saved? What about all the problems and issues that they face now and in the future - the same ones that can actually be prevented or at the very least, eased?
Posted 28 months ago.
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Don't feed the hyena!!!
Anonymous internet trolls are about as respectable as the Tea Party Movement....
Posted 28 months ago.
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Well this troll isn't anonymous. Seems Zoriah of $4k Haiti workshop fame has popped on over to Willpowers stream to weigh in.
www.flickr.com/photos/willpower/4294820188/#comment721576...
Would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Ugh. People like that make me not like photography very much.
Posted 28 months ago.
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"Well, when I see dead people suffering because of a combination of my nation's foreign policy and a natural disaster, it really makes me feel like I should concentrate more on what's important to me. It's really helped me to understand me and myself and me me me memememe. And really, that's the important message we've got to take away from all these dead people: I'm a better person for it, me me me me."
shut the fuck up already you are so the goddamn problem with the entire world.
Posted 28 months ago.
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warmongerphotog [deleted] says:
Zoriah is definetely doing the right thing with this workshop proposal in Haiti. Instead of people jumping on he and Will, they would be better served donating to charity and keep their belligerent mouths SHUT.
Zoriah' style may not appeal to everyone - yes he is an American and he comes across like a handsome movie star, but he is donating a fair portion of his fee to a good cause. This is ALOT more than what many lost souls are doing for Haiti.
He has already copped a blast over at lightstalkers by a number of jealous photogs who don't possess his skills with the camera. Zoriah is regarded as a living legend in photo journalist circles so please take that into account before you attack him.
I haven't met him personally, but it is obvious that he is out there doing the right thing to draw attention to this awful tragedy.
Posted 28 months ago.
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warmonger, i'm sure you're very nice and all but please have the balls to post under your real account...it just feels pointless otherwise, like you don't have enough faith in your opinion to stand by it....
Posted 28 months ago.
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I've only just found this thread and I find it completely incredulous that anyone could make this topic about themselves!
Here's a piece on Foto8 by Michael David Murphy which discusses the role of photojournalism in Haiti. Don't think anyone's put it up yet.
Also just another voice to add to the appreciation of Lung's work. A very sensitive, emotive, dignified and genuine project.
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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senor evez edited this topic 28 months ago.
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@Street hyena: I didn't pretend to know Nachtwey's inner sanctum, and I don't need to. Comparing Will's and Nachtwey's work, no matter how close they might be as individuals, is non-sense. And saying that Nachtwey's "vein" is "shoot now, answer the tough questions later" is an insult to him. Pretending that ONE picture can capture a whole event is also an insult to photojournalism, and something that Nachtwey was actually denouncing in his foreword of Inferno. And finally, who are you to pretend that you know what the "true essence" of the disaster is ?!
Posted 28 months ago.
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@Warmonger: "Zoriah is regarded as a living legend in photo journalist circles ". Names please. And quotes from famous PJ's about Zoriah ? You know, people such as the ones at Noor, VII, Magnum and such. Because all I could find on Zoriah's website under "Press and Reviews" ..were in fact carefully edited testimonials from some of his 8300+ contacts on.... Flickr !
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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Hughes Léglise-Bataille edited this topic 28 months ago.
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Hey trolls, you'll champion photographers who will rush into war zones to get images, but you can't post on a stupid internet forum under your real name?
Posted 28 months ago.
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I don't give a shit whether he's a "living legend," that program is absolute bullshit, and I don't much care whether I piss off a troll or a "legend" by saying so. As someone else [Bryan?] already pointed out here, if these people represent the status quo right now, it's not too hard to guess why the status quo is so fucked up.
Posted 28 months ago.
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warmongerphotog [deleted] says:
Huighes --- why are you trying so hard to prove that your connected by dropping the names of famous agencies? Everyone in photography who is anybody has heard of those agencies. I have no personal connections with anyone in them, but at least I don't come across as a school bully trying to prove himself to his chorus of playground snot nosed admirers.
By the way, what connections do you have in those circles/agencies? I'm betting none, or alternatively you stalk them as they leave the agency office trying to procure a signature.
How dare you pretend you know about Zoriah's circle of testimonials. You are an prat, posing as an intellectual. Stop jumping to conclusions. How the hell would you know that his tesimonials are carefully edited? Unless you come up with some significant proof, then you should retract that statement. Zoriah is a connected photog and he knows many publishers who are infamous for making life difficult for wannabe photogs.
I'm not going to post under my real name as I have seen the power of the internet in generating the tall poppy syndrome and consequently cutting down living legends like Zoriah and Will. I am not famous or even a photog of any standard, but I won't have my name sullied by a group of backward wannabes comparing notes on the latest model cameras.
Posted 28 months ago.
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i'm sorry, who are you again?
Posted 28 months ago.
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"You are an prat"
watch yourself warmonger, we'll be havin' no bad grammar here -- a ban may be in order if you keep that shit up.
Posted 28 months ago.
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warmongerphotog wrote "Living legends like Zoriah and Will".
Hahahahaha.
And indeed ha.
Posted 28 months ago.
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@warmongerphotog
re: "How dare you pretend you know about Zoriah's circle of testimonials....
"Unless you come up with some significant proof, then you should retract that statement."
I don't think any of us claim to "know" about his testimonials, we can only take them at face value. for example. if you search search the net for some of his quotes, you find them on blogs and flickr etc:
"Iconic, compelling images of war by a true professional.
Deserves to take a well earned place in history in the company of Phillip Jones-Griffith, Don Mc Cullen, Larry Burrows and Robert Capa.
The minimal presentation of his work is perfect...the viewer fills in the details, and the images linger stubbornly in the memory, to awake one from sleep in a cold sweat...these images cannot be taken in in one viewing...the viewer returns restlessly again and again, attempting to process the information...this is really happening... I take my hat off to him."
goddessofxanadu
that one is right there on both his flickr profile and his site. would that be proof?
Personally I don't see anything wrong with him having some of these testimonials on his site (I actually couldn't give a fuck).
As long as he respects the words and work of the "group of backward wannabes comparing notes on the latest model cameras" that are leaving these love notes for him, then it's fine by me (tho I don't understand why he hasn't asked them for their real names?)
PS: if you're not putting your name to you're words, then why should we hold any value to them? Do you not stand by them?
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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Account inactive go to: www.jamesdodd.net (a group admin) edited this topic 28 months ago.
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Has this just turned into nutter baiting? I mean, I know it's entertaining for a while but it's a bit sad really - the guy has spent so much time trying to falsify greatness that he seems to believe it.
Found this site interesting
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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senor evez edited this topic 28 months ago.
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Will's certainly a good photographer, but..."living legend"? On what planet is he a living legend? You're fellating to the point of self-parody, no?
Posted 28 months ago.
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I am not famous or even a photog of any standard,
Translated, this reads:
"I'm a sycophant with no original ideas about photography so I must defend respectable photographers in the hopes that they will notice me, and understand how much I appreciate their work. And if they send me a print, I will be very happy, and hang it in my living room. And when I have parties. I will tell people, 'This print is from the living legend Zoriah. He's my friend. We've chatted. Would you like a pig in a blanket?"
Posted 28 months ago.
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Always up for a pig in a blanket.
Posted 28 months ago.
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I prefer the Jimmy Dean Blueberry Pancake and Sausage on a Stick.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Well I just hope Will doesn't delete the photo from his stream on account of all this. I'm not a fan of his particular photography but I thought his particular voice on this issue was just a small voice in a very large community of photographers with different points of view on the story of Haiti.
I am beginning to "get" why people who might have been fans or admirers suddenly felt like puking when they saw that picture. I just hope he doesn't delete it because of this thread. If he does he will only leave this thread behind for people who might want to understand the controversy from their own point of view. If the picture and the comments are gone then the people who are opposed to it win.
Given the kind of photos he usually makes and the kinds of fans he attracts maybe putting the photo up was a mistake? I don't know. I think on a site like this you should be allowed to make mistakes and test reactions. I would encourage people to make mistakes. I wouldn't encourage them to whitewash the record because of the pressure from people they have offended.
Posted 28 months ago.
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@therr... I'm not sure if you've read this whole thread and the comments on will's photo, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the picture per say, more the context and delivery methods of it.
It's not an argument or a game... there are no "winners", that just seems like childish mentality.
"I think on a site like this you should be allowed to make mistakes"
I think to a certain extent everyone should be allowed to make mistakes (of course this depends on the individual mistakes, but I don't want to digress), but I don't think will sees it as a mistake.
Posted 28 months ago.
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James: I've read the thread and most of the links since the beginning. Haven't checked the photo comments lately. I really liked that blog that benroberts linked to back a few pages (the photographer who followed his friend to Haiti to find the friend's family). I liked some of Hughes photos and there was a very strong image in Lui's set that I can't shake - the guy with the work permit, reminds me of some Walker Evans image but I can't seem to put my finger on which one. Didn't care at all for the NYT images linked to by martinhanna. No sensible narrative there, but I'm not going to go into it. My opinion on the images doesn't matter, I just want to make the point that I've read most of the thread and followed through on the links (up to that last link).
I'm sure you know more than I do about whether will thinks it is a mistake or not. I just don't want to see it deleted for the wrong reasons, that is all. You are right there are no winners but when you try to erase the record under pressure, I think there are losers.
His is just one of the many different voices from the observers in Haiti. Maybe he's loathe to romaticize the experience and went to far the other way. Some people react to tragedy that way. They don't want to make "sense" out of it and just deal with it as a vulgar random act of nature, our meaningless mortal lives..etc etc.
I just don't think it should be deleted because it is offensive. Nor even because it is a failure.
Its good to use flickr to fail intelligently and to learn about why something failed. Don't you agree?
Posted 28 months ago.
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therr - i agree, so long as you have the courage to confront your failures and be open to discussing your failures with others.
Posted 28 months ago.
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True. But as an outraged viewer you also have to be honest with yourself about why you feel so offended by a certain image or the way it was presented.
For myself, I have always disliked photography that relies too much on emotional drama - angst, tears, rage, etc. Hands flailing in the air, appearing to be appealing to the Gods. The photo descriptions may be honest (they have their hands up because the police are looking for looters) the emotional connect isn't always honest.
So how do you tell a unique story about a random act of God or nature? It is meaningless. But most viewers or readers can't accept that. They need a Greek Tragedy. People will believe anything you tell them except that "life is meaningless" - Sorry, that one doesn't compute. So, (for example) Hughe's narrative, so far as I understood it, is about the distribution of supplies, the rescue efforts and sucesses of the team he was following, and some of the emotional devestation in the midst of chaotic destruction (where do we go from here?). It seems like what a professional photojournalist in that situation ought to be paid to do - show people that their money and supplies are getting to their destination, show people some of the sucesses and what is needed for the future. Lui's story (again this is just my impression based on a brief view) is a little harder to pin down. Like the Mona Lisa :) You have to really look at the faces and empathize with the subjects. You have to use your imagination. The lady with aids is hard to look at. I didn't look at her for too long. I looked at the faces and tried to imagine their lives and write my own narrative. Nice essay but not the easiest to digest all at once. Lui says himself that it is very personal and that he won't likely find a market for it. Then you look at Will's photo and its like "fuck this fairy tale shit, here is a dead body, make of it whatever you want". Well who wants to digest that? Especially if they are fans who might have been expecting his next upload to be some ultra cool stylish thing and instead they get a dead body in Haiti without any tags or description? I'm reluctant to give the photo more views by checking the comments again (and by leaving off the tags and description he seems to have deliberately removed the photo from Haiti search hits).
His stream is not my thing but since that image has generated so much interest and controversy it would just be nice if he leaves it there intact for the record.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Zoriah is a real piece of work
Zoriah’s New Project Mimics Derek Zoolander’s Fusion of Fashion and Dereliction
Posted 28 months ago.
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@Bryan: Hmm.
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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krameroneill edited this topic 28 months ago.
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I'm coming to the conclusion that he's actually a master satirist.
Posted 28 months ago.
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I think he's aiming for a film deal.
Posted 28 months ago.
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I was wondering how many people actually pay upwards of $2000 for a week being "schooled" by Zoriah Miller in disaster areas. Despite (or perhaps because of) all the publicity about his Haiti mission, just one person evidently joined him. So what kind of person stumped up all that cash? Er... a certain Anais Dobson, who may well be a thoroughly decent person, a talented photographer and/or keen humanitarian. Her myspace profile, however, is headlined with the quote "Bringing back the afternoon cocktail, one martini at a time."
Yep. Martinis and photos of dead people, they're all the same...
Posted 28 months ago.
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@arty:
according to her blog she visited haiti "On November 27, 2009".
So it wasn't the disaster workshop she went on, but a "social and environmental impact of charcoal production and consumption" essay workshop. Unless she went on both?
Posted 28 months ago.
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Probably off the current Zoriah Miller-topic of this thread. But I wanted to share with you the photographs from Haiti by the Norwegian photographer André Liohn.
viiphoto.ning.com/photo/albums/haiti-earthquake-the-small
Also a multimedia piece in the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten:
www.aftenposten.no/amagasinet/article3525498.ece
(I tried to google translate it into english, but for some reason it refuses to translate....)
Posted 28 months ago.
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teehee her name is anais.
Posted 28 months ago.
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@martinnicholls - its good to be an optimist.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Lumiere Images [deleted] says:
Not knowing anything about Will i decided to google him and found this site www.thefreestylelife.com/artist_will_sterns.html
Quote " Will lives in New York City and is currently in the midst of several new projects. He just returned from Haiti where he spent a week documenting the aftermath of the earthquake. "
It doesn't quite fit with his story that he was just there to look for a friends relatives. The site implies he was there shooting for a project.
Posted 28 months ago.
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___/\___________ [deleted] says:
why is he holding workshops in haiti?
does he think it is good to have fresh subject matter within reach?
Posted 28 months ago.
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___/\___________ [deleted] says:
and i would add that it sucks, really bad.
Posted 28 months ago.
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"documenting the aftermath of the earthquake"
is probably just easier to say and a better quote than
"went with a friend to look for their relatives, but took a few photos on the way"
Posted 28 months ago.
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Toss in a few celeb names as well and off you go," on the way"to fame and fortune...
Posted 28 months ago.
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Toss in a few celeb names as well and off you go," on the way"to fame and fortune...
yes. i'm sure it's that easy.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Naaa, Will is busy sending loving emails such as this one:
"Should I show you ALL THE MANY MANY MANY people who do what
you do far better than you? Would you like that? fucking
loser."
I left him an answer under his photo, but that just sums it up for me: no more gloves and "respect" now, this is just another case of teenage prima dona with an ego crisis. It's sad to realize that talented photographers are not necessarily interesting people...
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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Hughes Léglise-Bataille edited this topic 28 months ago.
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Lumiere Images [deleted] says:
His picture perfectly sums up how little respect he has for people.
Posted 28 months ago.
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___/\___________ [deleted] says:
you'd better watch out, hughes, he is still an admin in here
:D
Posted 28 months ago.
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5
Posted 28 months ago.
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Oh, by the way, here are other pictures from Will's trip to Haiti, from Regine Zamore's blog (she's the Haitian friend he traveled with):
bagaydwol.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/photos-ii/
Nothing really extraordinary. You'll notice however the irony of the caption under one of his photo: "Out of respect, Haitian people covered the corpse as it lay exposed on the street." ...
@limeskale: I'll make a screen capture ! But if he deletes my comment, he's loosing all credibility as an admin.
Posted 28 months ago.
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i didn't realize he worked under nachtwey for a while..
it makes too much sense that he would see something like this and shoot a photo of it.. and post it on flickr..
sand dune -> fuji ?
Posted 28 months ago.
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...4...
Posted 28 months ago.
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33333
3
333
3
3333
Originally posted 28 months ago.
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Account inactive go to: www.jamesdodd.net (a group admin) edited this topic 28 months ago.
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zwei
Posted 28 months ago.
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fin.
Posted 28 months ago.
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HCSP (Hardcore Street Photography) /
Discuss
sweet distin wrote "It would be great if photographers had to earn the right to shoot vulnerable people".
It would be great if I had the right to shoot (with a gun) people with vulnerable ideas. ;)
Lung S. Liu Amazing work. I don't think it's on your stream (yet), but the image of a "scavenging" guy passing a plastic doll to someone in the crowd is almost as heartbreaking as seeing human bodies being pulled from the rubble.
Hughes Léglise-Bataille Julie's work is amazing.
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