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pH [浪人] [deleted] says:
lol
that wasn't street, was pagan softcore
Posted 54 months ago.
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AHH that explains it.
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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MoriEndi edited this topic 54 months ago.
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pH [浪人] [deleted] says:
but actually that would be an idea for a set...
shooting street naked...
-kidding-
Posted 54 months ago.
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I'm still scratching my head at the concept of acting "like a porn star" and having to "blow off" the people I annoy...
... I've heard of dedication to one's art, but that's getting ridiculous... :-O
Posted 54 months ago.
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So nobody's gettin nekkid? This shit ain't hardcore! >:^P
Posted 54 months ago.
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wow, i didnt mean it literally! lol! i need to get street shots up!
Posted 54 months ago.
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lol :-)
Posted 54 months ago.
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hi, i have the same problem. for the first time in my life i was out and taking pictures of people in the streets the other day. people were really close but because it was a touristic area and i made myself look like a tourist, noone said anything. it felt good and helped me to gain some more confidence. so hopefully i'll be able to take some pictures that can be accepted by admins of this group soon :)) so my advice is, go to touristic areas and take loads of pictures there. people will probably think you're a tourist too :))
Posted 54 months ago.
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Here's what I tell people to help them get over their shyness and avoid confrontation:
Be obvious.
Never try to hide what you are doing, just put yourself right in the middle of the busiest place you can at first and keep your camera up by your face. Make it obvious that you are right out in the open, taking pictures.
At first, spend some time planted in the middle of the sidewalk, between oncoming foot traffic and look right through people. Don't pan in on any one person, just look at your whole frame and watch how people move. Wait five or ten seconds at least before taking your first shot and a bit of time before changing position.
Snap an occasional photo, but don't immediately take the camera from your eye, just pause a moment. This adds a bit of doubt as to whether you actually took a photo or not. Make it seem as though you changed your mind at the last moment. After shooting, move the camera slightly aside and look above and beyond and straight through the people, as though you were waiting for them to get out of the way.
Never stare, look through people. Never "whip out your camera" when you see an "interesting" person or situation, "already be taking pictures" when they enter your frame. It helps transform a situation from a stolen snapshot of someone into one of "you happened to be in my frame."
Concentrate on setting up a good composition first. Pick a background that works for you and start working with it. Keep your camera up and move it to your eye to check the frame. Move slowly and deliberately. Never let your camera get out of sight and people will feel less threatened. Smile and nod to people who see you. Say hello and don't be afraid to tell them that you are just out having a walk and taking pictures. If someone seems to want their picture taken, take it and get their name and email to get them a copy of the photo.
If you make up some bullshit story about what you're doing, people aren't likely to believe you, especially if you are nervous. Pulling out the "photographer's rights" pamphlet will seem confrontational to a lot of people. You'll do better by offering to send them a print, rather than telling them that they have no right to stop you from taking their picture. If they still object after seeing the preview, delete the photo and let it stay deleted. That's just good karma, unless there is some overriding value to the photo, such as a news event or possibly a really good composition where the person is not identifiable.
If confronted, be calm and reasonable. If the cops show up, be the one who appears more sane and you'll have less trouble. If the cops tell you that you're wrong and you know that you're right, *that's* the time to dig a rumpled copy of the "photographer's rights" pamphlet from the bottom of your bag. Rights or not, you're going to get hassled if people think you're some creep sneaking photos.
The more obvious you are, the more likely it is that some sympathetic stranger will step in to vouch for you and explain that you've been out there taking snapshots innocently all day. Having a half-dozen postcard prints of your work will help let people know that you're not a pervert shooting upskirt pictures of teenaged girls. Give your cards and prints to people who like them. Tell them that it could be worth a lot of money one day, if you become famous. ;-)
Listen to your sixth sense and if you feel like things are getting strange, move on and get out, as fast as necessary. Always wear shoes that you can run in and don't carry a lot of cumbersome junk with you.
If possible, take some time with a friend and a video camera. Have our friend record how you shoot and watch it. Ask yourself how you would react to having your picture taken by someone like you.
Posted 54 months ago.
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I think i have a staring problem.
that was a good rundown jim... thanks
Posted 54 months ago.
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Yeah, that got into detail on one clear way of how to do it. That skill of focusing through people in the distance should be easy to acquire. It's cool also if somebody tells you something and they see your eyes focusing back to reality!
Posted 54 months ago.
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Nice Jim. Very nice. That was a great read.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Nice stuff Jim.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Phot-hog [deleted] says:
What an excellent thread this is!
A lot of great advice here. I'd throw in having a friend be a model for you so that you can shoot away without shyness ... the training wheel effect. Actually hanging out often 'in the neighborhood' would help to establish yourself as a part of the scenery, thus minimizing suspicions, at least among residents and shopowners.
You are correct to be cautious. I've had some unpleasant experiences.
Very useful thread altogether, esp. advice by Jim O'Connell. Thank you!
Posted 54 months ago.
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I just finished reading an obituary of Ernest C. Wilson in the NY Times. Talk about unpleasant experiences.... it makes me devalue any courage I might have gained after dong this for a year. What can I say? Follow Jim's great advice and get over it. And talk about "just take the fucking photo".... Wilson took more than 1,000,000 frames in his lifetime!
If you're interested, Wilson's photos are here. There are some other nice photos on that site which is geared more towards the photojournalism side of things.
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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John Goldsmith edited this topic 54 months ago.
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Wow some really good advice in here, especially jim's. thnx all :)
Posted 54 months ago.
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as for what is private and what is public....a sidewalk is PUBLIC unless it specifically is marked as private property. A shopping mall is actually private property. but it is open to free public access. The general rule in those cases is you can take pics until a representative of the owner tells you to stop. But, the pics you already took are yours to keep. This assumes that there are no signs stating No Photography....if those signs are there, don't even start.
You can take pictures of anything you want to on public property.......anything!. With the exception of where privacy is actually expected....meaning, public bathrooms, changing rooms and the like. Kids are no different than adults. You can take pics of them. Yeah, you'll probably get yelled at eventually........but, they are wrong, you are totally legal.
People may not like it.......but, it's the law. You can take pics of anything if you are on public property. And, yes, that includes taking pics of private property from your place on public property. Military installations fall under different rules......no pics. And a bridge is not a military installation.......so snap away if you want. Yeah, you may have someone talking to you but, you are still legal.
as far as shyness itself........Jim has some good advice. When I first started my heart was pumping so hard, i could hear the blood pulsating thru my ears. But, you uget over it.
You are allowed to take pics........believe it.........act like it.......and most people wont even take notice of you.
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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Rain Tree Crow edited this topic 54 months ago.
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Thanks Mr. Karanka, just wasted about half an hour on all of Neg's clips... classic!
Posted 54 months ago.
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waxy im responding a little late to your response to my post, but better late than never. i just wanted to say i agree with what you are saying. there are situations where you just snap a photo and you have no good reason. but i think its good to have something in the back of your head, especially if you engage in conversation with people. ive had moments where i stand directly infront of someone, i look them straight in the eye, snap the picture then walk on by, no words between us but a certain silent agreement.
www.cristinamartinezcanton.com/M01.html
so yes there is every kind of situation.
oh and yes, nice blurb jim, good overall advice. im going to try your little exercise.
"she promised us..." i like your last comment
(You are allowed to take pics........believe it.........act like it.......and most people wont even take notice of you)
ill keep that in mind
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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mouse breath squirrel head edited this topic 54 months ago.
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Thanks everyone, for the kind words.
There's a lot of different ways to shoot, of course—what I described is just a couple good techniques to help gain confidence. After a while, you'll develop your own techniques and they are all different for every person and every subject you shoot.
The confidence and "being obvious" thing is always good, I think, though—at least it always worked for me...
Good luck and stay safe.
(Oh, Happy New Year from Japan. It turned 2008 here an hour ago.)
あけましておめでとうございます！
Posted 54 months ago.
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Christoffel K. [deleted] says:
for me it worked not going out taking photos stoned, and smoking alot less pot in general really helped me to become less shy and paranoid! i think that made a world of difference for me..
Posted 54 months ago.
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hahaha!
I've been "shooting from the hip" lately, just to get myself accustomed to the idea of walking around with a camera. It helps, though the results are unpredictable and some might even call it cheating (not that I give a fuck)...
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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just tiff edited this topic 54 months ago.
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Nice one Jim.
Going out shooting with a friend can help with confidence too I find (if you have any friends weird enough to be into this lark). Besides, you can break for a coffee, mull over the progress and head back out again.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Tomorrow MoriEndi could post some results of this discussion :)
Posted 54 months ago.
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I took my wife to the local mall last weekend. She looked at dresses and such while I ambled about outside, taking pictures. A few people noticed I was shooting them but I got no bad reactions.
We took breaks for coffee (as mort* suggests) and I included her in some of the shots. She got her shopping done and I got my pictures.
Walking with my wife not only adds confidence but makes me look less like a creep or perv!
Posted 54 months ago.
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I'm the same, until I remember that people don't know you and will never see you again, so you're an insignificant part of their day and will forget about you in a minute or so, so do whatever you want!
Posted 54 months ago.
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Wow some great advice posted since I was out on holiday! Thanks for all the great comments so far, Jim and She Promised- you guys have some good tips.
Now Im realizing tho that my schedule sucks for street, as does my general area. I recently moved about an hour away from where I used to live, from nice walkable down town area to.... not. Hmmmm.....
I know they say its not the place that makes the photo its the photographer- but doesnt there need to be decent streets to be street?
Posted 54 months ago.
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"Never stare, look through people."
I dont know, I've been getting a lot of mileage out of staring at people lately...
And MoriEndi, to answer your question, yes.
Remember, if your pictures arn't good enough, your not drunk enough. Or your using a zoom lens. Fuck, how does the quote go again?
Posted 54 months ago.
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juliank [deleted] says:
often if i think someones noticed, i just go for a follow up shot of the background. pretend that i took the first picture by mistake, and that i really really wanted a nice clean shot of a bus stop or some trafic lights. it sounds stupid, but it works. i think most people find it more likely that you'd be taking a picture of something else other than them.
i will note however, that where i live (in tokyo) im a racial minority, and am therefore prone to doing crazy things/ more language-barrier than its worth.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Jim, I agree with ALL you say! i think you summarized everything that's need to be considered very nicely. thanks.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Keep a card in your pocket that says:
[YOUR NAME HERE]
PHOTOGRAPHER
[YOUR WEBSITE URL HERE]
The card will serve as your "get out of hell free" card when accosted by the people who you've just not-so-sereptitiously photographed.
The best advice I've ever been given, which has been re-iterated above ad nauseum, is to be in the space first. If it's your space and someone enters it and gets photographed it's a whole different vibe than if you come into someone else's space.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Try this.
1.Go to a public square and just plant yourself somewhere where people are walking past. Always look like you are looking beyond them to something else and just snap when a good moment comes. The camera is so quiet they don't know. Stay in one place for 10 minutes and some good photos will always come to you.
2. Go to somewhere that is architecturally nice and take lots of shots very quickly. Just of everything that moves. It looks like you're taking shots of the building and people really don't notice. Doing this is trickier, but after several shots you will find that you start to feel a little removed and get less embarrassed.
3. Just smile reassuringly if you catch someone's eye and then let something else catch your attention. People are always fine.
4. Here's a great video lesson in being invisible from street photographer Joel Meyerowitz
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dipTqJfiE4
Posted 54 months ago.
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i agree with 186k
"be in the space first"
Posted 54 months ago.
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Yes, but getting in their space = closer. All depends I suppose.
I was just thinking earlier - photographing on the street and feeling comfortable... I used to do a lot of busking. You soon get comfortable when you're used to being out there playing the fiddle several hours a day. You feel like YOU own the street, and all those people are effing interlopers to YOUR space. So, once again, I suppose practice, just do it, and get used to it. My new year's resolution - (well, one of them).
Posted 54 months ago.
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"Remember, if your pictures arn't good enough, your not drunk enough. Or your using a zoom lens. Fuck, how does the quote go again? "
As "The Other Snork" is my nephew, I am welling up with pride reading that, as a proud uncle.
You've learned well, my boy. The next absinthe is on me...
Posted 54 months ago.
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Cheers for you, Jim, your words about developing a shy less attitude are literally gold!!!
Posted 54 months ago.
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I guess that leaves me to pick up the massage girls.
Photography is hard work...
Posted 54 months ago.
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Glad to find this post - though I may be a bit late.
I struggle with this all the time, and do find myself missing a lot of great shots. Not only do I feel a bit shy, I really like my pictures to be as candid as possible, so if the subject(s) don't notice me, I feel I get the more/ better shots. This has definitely dictated the photos I take (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse).
Posted 54 months ago.
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If you give a monkey's what people think of you, you're in the wrong game.
If you can manage to take the picture before anyone bothers to notice you is half the secret of good street photography. Preparation is key: if you have the camera round your neck it'll take at least 3 seconds for you to take a picture once you've seen it. If you have it in your hand you can do it in about 2 secs and if you have the thing glued to your face you can take the shot in less than 1 sec.
That way you'll never have time to even think about being shy about taking the shot.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Yup. Nice rundown David.
Posted 54 months ago.
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Tena koe MoriEndi
Jim covers a good deal of the issues surrounding shooting in a street environment but I'll add some others for your consideration or not....
For me shooting in a street environment is something that is an extension of your personality in as much as it is something "you want to do" or want to experience perhaps on the way to becoming a street photographer. You have to be and feel comfortable in the presence of other people you don't know i.e. "The Public".
Having that ability or acquiring that ability will help you no end in this field of photography. So I suggest if you're not already openly outgoing and comfortable in public situations put yourself in situations where you have to be, more often. Force yourself to be more "confident" and capable in a public arena or situation.
It is you after all who begins this thread by saying, "you've been a lurker in this group and you're shy"
My dear shyness is not going to help you and if you lurk around shyly in a public arena you will attract the type of attention you don't really want, which as a result I think you may have been experiencing already?
Social interaction whether directly or indirectly is a big aspect of street photography also and often I find that it goes along way to bringing down the barriers of inhibitions and caution from members of the public. What I tend to do (in street environments I don't know well) is hang my camera over my shoulder for an hour or even less and just walk around in an street environment that I haven't been before.
I allow people to see me and what it is that I do, I don't hide it but don't "seemingly" abuse the privilege of it either. Familiarity goes along way to easing people's tensions about photographers in a street environment. Shoot an image of a street sign or a sandwich board as a means to expose yourself to the street public in a crowded scene act and be confident in what you're doing and the way you're doing it. Don't chimp your images take the shot move on and look around for the next shot. Give the public the impression you know what you are doing and you're confident in the way you do it.
Conversation is another thing to consider, although you may be chewing at the bit to take photos, try interacting with the public who are your potential photographic subjects. When you're seen to be interacting one-on-one verbally it gives the general public the impression that you're not just there to unknowingly capture images of them. Hence the umbrella of caution comes down a little.
I think there is also the aspect of knowing your environment and the people within it i.e.- being learned and respectful of cultural diversity and idiosyncrasies.
I wrote about this this morning on another web site but, you must be aware that there are some cultures who have a definite dislike to "having their soul captured", "having their mana duplicated" or "having their self reincarnated". Whereas some other cultures are relatively comfortable with it. Chances are you might never experience this aspect of cultural diversity or idiosyncrasies in a street environment but, doing some research isn't really a bad thing. And I'm not talking about going back to college to get a degree in Human Sciences
I know what is public domain but within that knowing there has to be an integrity of the photographer that is respectful and knows when to shoot and when not to shoot. Just because we have a camera in our possession in a public arena doesn't give us anymore human or integral rights than any pedestrian passing by.
I wont say good luck I'll say make your own luck and be confident doing it!
Hey I'd like to know how you get on so feel free to drop me a line if you like and when you're able.
Perhaps not hardcore but have a look at some of mine here
Originally posted 54 months ago.
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tk-tekata (ndiginiz) edited this topic 54 months ago.
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mass_appeal92 [deleted] says:
I found just today tht people will take time to react, once they have moved past you, if you stay in the same position pretending to shoot something tht just happened to be behind them, they wont come up to you and get annoyed, just figure tht they were in your way
Posted 41 months ago.
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Keep moving, wear a fixed grin and look confused, it works for me
Originally posted 41 months ago.
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i didn't mean to go to Stoke edited this topic 41 months ago.
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Pepper spray.
Posted 41 months ago.
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I say this is all you need to get rid of your problem:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P6I4pT_tVA
Posted 41 months ago.
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Not to beat a dead horse, but I agree with Mark on the warm up time. I rarely get a good shot walking around without the explicit purpose of shooting. Giving yourself a few hours can be crucial. I usually spend the first bit getting as close as possible, even if I know the shots will be crap. That way I can get used to being the weird guy taking your picture, get over shooting people, back up a bit and focus on the more important aspects of shooting.
Posted 41 months ago.
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INTHETROPICS [deleted] says:
i LIKED THE PEPPER SPRAY COMMENT. I NEED TO WARM UP , I FOUND BY WEARING A MP3 PLAYER GIVES ME A BARRIER BETWEEN ME AND THEM, I ALSO CARRY A CARD WITH MY NAME AND TELLING THEM I AM A STREET PHOTOGRPHER WHICH HAS A EMAIL ADDRESS AND A PHONE NUMBER, I PREFER TO GO TO FESTIVALS,CONCERTS, ANY PUBLIC ENTERTANMENT WHERE THERE ARE A LOTS OF PEOPLE, PERFORMERS ARE FAIR GAME FOR STREET PHOTOGRPHERS, ALSO FIND A SMILE CAN BE DISARMING IN MOST CASES , IF ALL THE ABOVE FAIL THEN ITS BACK TO THE PEPPER SPRAY,BUT DONT EVER GIVE UP, WE NEED STREET PHOTOGRAPHERS AND THEY NEED US.
Posted 40 months ago.
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Tip: Take the mp3 player off before posting to threads, or at least turn it down a bit, otherwise you can end up shouting without realising it. ;-)
Posted 40 months ago.
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get a rangefinder and learn to approximate distances. nobody will ever know you took a photo of them and you'll get a nice adrenaline rush. if you're in a confined space (train/bus/elevator?) and you get caught, it'll be awkward. get yourself in a few situations like that, you will be cured of shyness, i guarantee it.
Posted 40 months ago.
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HCSP Archeology rules.
Posted 40 months ago.
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alviesinger [deleted] says:
it's not about tricks, gimmicks, angles, pretending, long lenses, or sneaking around. it's about knowing that your intentions are honorable, that you respect your subjects, and that you have a right to create art. if all those things are in place, there's nothing to be shy about.
Posted 40 months ago.
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yesterday i was all in peoples faces like POW POW POW SNAP YEAH WTF AM I DOING.
I shot 3 rolls. I hope they come out alright.
Posted 40 months ago.
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Somebody just shot me while I was shooting during my lunch break. I hope that shows up somewhere on flickr.
Posted 40 months ago.
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@kramer: did you punched him in the face?, he doesn't have the right !!
Posted 40 months ago.
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kramer. That's what you get for standing at the same corner day after day. They know your MO, dude!
Posted 40 months ago.
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rosca: Yes, he was punched, severely. I confiscated his memory card, 'cause I'm pretty sure he was a terrorist. What other excuse could he have for photographing in New York?
Waxy: Everybody is so silently accepting of me now, after a few days of slightly weird looks. Just like that, I'm a fixture: that other crazy dude on the corner...
Posted 40 months ago.
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Pepper spray.
Posted 40 months ago.
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huh, i just got deja vu.
Posted 40 months ago.
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i LIKED THE PEPPER SPRAY COMMENT. I NEED TO WARM UP , I FOUND BY WEARING A MP3 PLAYER GIVES ME A BARRIER BETWEEN ME AND THEM, I ALSO CARRY A CARD WITH MY NAME AND TELLING THEM I AM A STREET PHOTOGRPHER WHICH HAS A EMAIL ADDRESS AND A PHONE NUMBER, I PREFER TO GO TO FESTIVALS,CONCERTS, ANY PUBLIC ENTERTANMENT WHERE THERE ARE A LOTS OF PEOPLE, PERFORMERS ARE FAIR GAME FOR STREET PHOTOGRPHERS, ALSO FIND A SMILE CAN BE DISARMING IN MOST CASES , IF ALL THE ABOVE FAIL THEN ITS BACK TO THE PEPPER SPRAY,BUT DONT EVER GIVE UP, WE NEED STREET PHOTOGRAPHERS AND THEY NEED US.
;-)
Posted 40 months ago.
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Tip: Take the mp3 player off before posting to threads, or at least turn it down a bit, otherwise you can end up shouting without realising it. ;-)
Posted 40 months ago.
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WHAT? i CANT HEAR YOU.
Posted 40 months ago.
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@ David - yes I heard you the first time :)
Posted 40 months ago.
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I usually shoot naked. This tends to distract them when I'm shooting. Most of them don't even know I'm holding a camera!
I think this would help overcome your shyness.
Good Luck!
Posted 40 months ago.
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INTHETROPICS [deleted] says:
Sorry, i am visualy impared and i find it easier for me to text this way, what is your handicap???
Posted 40 months ago.
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i'm not sure if the thread would be better off being locked or deleted.
Posted 40 months ago.
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Well, if it degenerates any further I think the former should suffice.
Posted 40 months ago.
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