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Building a camera
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Edit: this is a long thread. I learned things along the way and some views I express early on I later change, as more information comes to light. Read through it all...
OK, I have lost my mind, but I am feeling for a while like it is time to build a camera. I have thought about it before, I am keen on wood working and photography. I thought I would start a thread here to post updates and references that apply to NZ as I go along, if it is not appropriate then let me know and I will get it removed. It also helps me to keep at it if I am aiming for a post once a week or so.
The style of camera I want to do is with front/back sections, movements, generic back adapter, and bellows. My goal isn’t specifically large format (initially, but yes in the long run) but I think all the principles are similar. I am particularly interested in a panorama ratio but it will all depend on the lens I get (likely an enlarger lens on the first one), I suspect everything else is scale. My materials will mainly be wood based, because my tools are mostly wood working, and I like the look of wooden cameras. I am also sourcing in NZ unless it becomes impossible. When it comes to cost, I am going to be practical to a point. I just want the fun of the build, so something like the bellows I think is uneconomical to make… but I am going to give it a go anyway for the experience, to see if it is possible for a normal person. I want to use it in the end so functionality will come before beauty, and economy before extravagant.
Anyhow, I decided this morning to do it, first off is looking into the overall plan and hunting for a lens. I would appreciate any advice along the way (apart from don’t do it, ha ha).
Tony
Originally posted at 2:53PM, 10 December 2010 PDT
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 12 months ago.
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So after doing some reading I think the camera breaks down into two main parts, the camera and the mounting (need help with my terminology). This was good to find out because it means I can build things up slowly. Like initially the mounting can just be a in and out for focus and disregard movements, nice an simple. Then later I can fancy it up without having to remake the camera part.
The camera seems to be 4 parts. The lens mounted on a board. The “back” which holds the ground glass or film. The bellows/bag to make a light proof tunnel between the lens and sensor. And finally the frames. You could attached the bellows to the lens board and back, but it is nicer to be able to make those two parts changeable. A frame (literally just a frame, like a picture frame) is put onto each end of the bellows and accepts standard size lenses and backs, clipped in.
The mounting attaches the frames to the tripod. It also has mechanical movements to some degree built into it. From what I can gather there are several that are used a lot and some that are just nice to have. The frames need to be able to move closer or further apart for focus. It could be both moving or one fixed and one moves, not sure yet on what to do there. The other movement that seem to be useful is tilt. So if I need to point the camera at an angle other than perpendicular to the plane I want straight verticles then I can tilt one end to be in parallel (architecture). I am not so sure about the usefulness of shifts (panoramas?) and swing (horizontal tilt?).
I bought this set of bits and pieces:
www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=339220506
Not sure but I think there might be something there that will give me a decent size image (what is that called?) I think the starting point will be to make the camera part. I will build a very simple mount to just slide in and out to start with and focus on the camera. I guess the frames are the first thing, once I find out what standard sizes are for lens boards and backs. I am going to call this first camera a practice one. I expect I will mess up a lot of stuff along the way but number two will be awesome.
Originally posted 18 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 18 months ago.
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I am going to have a go at making a ground glass based on this guys post (and others, but he kinda sums it all up).
www.apug.org/forums/forum216/78392-making-ground-glass-fo...
Thats the basics but looking around gives other little hints here and there. I think I will try it on some standard picture glass to start with since I have spare at home.
This is where I have bought some grit from, 400 and 600 at 500gms each, plus courier was about $45 NZ
www.rotorualapidary.co.nz/acatalog/Polishing_&_Grindi...
They took a creditcard payment over the phone.
Originally posted 18 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 18 months ago.
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Hmmm, reading more on movements and I think I would add rise and fall to the important ones. Got a Graflex quater plate camera in the mail today. Makes me more keen than ever to get this going
Grit arrived, going to have a little practice grind tonight.
Originally posted 18 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 18 months ago.
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Had my first go grounding a screen last night, it went really well. I need to do it over again but for a first attempt I am pretty pleased. Took about half an hour for an A4 size piece of glass. I started with 400 grit then finished with 600 grit. I used separate paddles (there is a better word?) for each grit and it was interesting to see the grain difference on those.
What I would improve next time. Less 400 cycles and more 600. I can see chip tear out (looks like crystals on the surface, I think it is called micro chipping). I believe it is from me trying to rush and pressing down hard, instead of just letting the grit do its job. I also noticed a few swirling scratch marks, I must have not kept the area clean enough , I was working on the porch, could easily have got some sand or dirt in there.
Anyway, here is a shot of the result, good enough, but will do a better job once I know the final dimensions. I think I will do an oversize bit of glass then cut it down to have the smooth misting right to the edges. Chip the corners for checking vignette and pop it in its own frame with some sort of spring or locking method frame. The film plane and ground glass have to be identical so will need to design that… later.
Posted 18 months ago.
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Dang, broke the ground glass. I chipped the corners and accidentally made a small frature, looked ok so didnt worry. Then when putting it in the frame there was a creeeak and the whole thing broke from that point. Oh well, practice. Bunch of enlarger lenses arrived today, going to use one on them initially for the camera, probably the Cooke lens (Taylor Taylor and Hobson, series III, 6 1/2 x 4 3/4)
I wonder how to clean it without damaging it?
Posted 18 months ago.
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After some to-ing and fro-ing, I have selected this one to use for the protoype camera (mentioned above).
Gave it a good clean up, was mainly just dust and dirt. Love how you can take a lens like this apart and actually put it back together, couldnt do that with my modern ones. Lensboard next. Wonder what a standard size is? Look it up I guess, otherwise maybe 100x100mm would be convenient.
Need to think about what sort of wood to use too. Everything I read seems to suggest cherry or that sort of thing but I dont want to for the first one, bit of a waste of good wood. Some parts I am considering MDF, like the film/glass holder frames, for its precision between surfaces... hmm, need to think about it some more.
Originally posted 18 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 18 months ago.
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Wanted to test the ground glass I made for brightness and ease of focusing before making the next one. I was also interested in the lens coverage. Just a homemade bellows box (two box halves sliding inside themselves).
The fridge shot, hmmm theres something I never expected to see in this digital age. Got some FP-100c pack film for a back I recently got on trademe. Going to make a backboard for it to use on this camera.
Good coverage in the end. Not as bright as I would like but better than I expected. Focus at the far distance was about 12cm from lens plane to film plane. Close focus was about 50cm, thats a lot more extension than I expected, good to know now. It really helped of the thing being looked at was bright, and the screen was facing a dark area... going to have to use a cloth I think.
Oh and I guess this is obvious, I am a bit slow learning it, dont touch the ground side of the ground glass. Leaves finger prints that are not easy to remove.
Originally posted 18 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 18 months ago.
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I made some lens boards today. 100x100x5mm. I used remu since I had a bit lying around. I selected a 2"x 6" board to use as my base stock. For the lens boards I ripped a 105mmx12mm plank, thicknessed it down to the final dimensions. Sanded.
For the hole I hoped to use one of my fixed borers, but nothing was the right size. So I ended up mounting it on the wood lath and turning out the correct size hole, sanded again, then oiled the one I am using for this lens.
The others are blanks for future use, as lenses get aquired.
Posted 18 months ago.
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Doing the front frame next, just making a plan. It is not as easy as I thought since it intersects three parts (lensboard, bellows, standard). Lens board is easy enough I guess. I am going to do a groove/rabbet along some edges to stop it falling out the back and letting me keep the frame thin by not having to add extra thickness with a rabbet for the whole board. And something on the front that locks one edge and latches the other, to stop it falling forward (going to look into making it light tight later but is on my mind now)
Bellows will be oversized because I dont think I need it small and then I have room for error and movements.
... the attachement to the standard it the tricky bit to plan, it means I bacically have to have all the movements worked out now, need some thought on that. On the front I am going for rise/fall, tilt/swing, and forward/back for focus. I think I will do some browsing for ideas on other cameras. I only have a very small amount of time to work on this each day, but lots of thinking time while doing my other things
Posted 18 months ago.
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It didn’t really work out this time, will have to give it another go. I overestimated my ability to do fine work. I am going to have to build some jigs and decide on some standard cuts, oh and scale things up a bit so I don’t have to fuss so much. On the face of it I think it looks OK, but it is rubbish. On the next one I need to:
1. Make the laps on the rabbets about 1 - 1.5cm, rather than the few mm I did on this one. This is also for keeping light out. I think I am going to lay some sort of material between the frame and lens board to block light too.
2. I am not going to put any groves on the lens board, just have it sit in the recessed frame and clamp it in. it was just all too fancy and I don’t think the effort/reward was worth it, maybe later when I get better skills.
3. I need to work out how to clamp the lens board into the frame, that metal thing I recycled off a piece of an enlarger I had lying around, but I need to be able to make something myself. I have hit a wall budget wise so it has to be something I can make rather than something bought.
4. I need to make some drawings before I cut anymore wood. There are quite a few unknowns that I need to work though before the next round.
5.Need more precision in my cutting, make jigs for repeatability.
I wonder how I should attach the bellows, maybe a clamp type frame on the back of this. I made the thickness of the frame so I can run a U shape piece of aluminium down each side edge. This is how I was going to attach it to the standard.
Hmm, really need to plan this out first, I underestimated how tricky it was going to be.
Originally posted 18 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 18 months ago.
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Lots of reading on the web and looking at other designs today. The chamonix has a lot of interesting ideas (its also a place, put in 8x10 as well in a search).
Posted 17 months ago.
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The plan is coming together, got the overal design and teh compromises on the first run at it (mainly to do with reducing movements on the rear standard). Just got to work out a few details now. One area I am mystified about, how does the bellows attache securelyto the frames?? I can pop it in under tension like I see in some designs, but that donst seem good when compressing the frames. I guess the lens plate and glass plate clamp it in.
Posted 17 months ago.
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I was wrong about the parts being independant. After coming up with my design (a frankenstein of other cameras) I realise all teh parts are inter related and the whole thing really needs to be thought through before starting. Not sure if drawings would be useful. Off doing holidays for a bit, but hope to start building next week.
I am going for a U shaped front standard but am looking to fix the rear one. I keep reading about stability, esp for longer exposures, being important on the rear with all its weight. I got a lot of inspiration from this cmaera designer/builder
www.argentumcamera.com/eng/pages/cameras/explorator_eng.htm
Seems really well thought through, good balance in my mind between stability, cost and weight.
I think I am going to start with the base this time, build up from there, so if some sizes change then I can adapt the other parts.
Posted 17 months ago.
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Got my plan now, just working out the final dimensions and joinery. It was worth working it out, learnt a lot from other designs. I have been doing a few experiments making aluminium parts with my wood working tools, probably not the best idea and the results have been a little disappointing so far. Specifically I have been experimenting with making the adjustment knobs for clamping down movements.
I have decided to go for 4x5 to start with, um’ed and argh’ed a bit about this but I think that is the practical choice to start with. Away for a few days but taking the gear to make ground screen. I am going for square back frame so I can use both orientations. I am making the screen 7”x7” so I can see outside the capture area for movement potential.
One other change is I have decided to do a double adapter board for the lens frame. One hole for a large board and a smaller hole in it for my 10x10cm lens boards. This is because I may have a range of boards with my custom size, but then in the future may buy something with its own nice board that isn’t 10x10, so I can then just change the sacrificial adapter, er does that make sense in words?
For marking the ground glass I think a printed transparency is the way I ma going to go, just slide it in over the viewer side of the glass. All this customising means I will definitely need to make my own film frames. Which I am keen for but at the same time I keep reading how tricky and precise they are… so a bit nervous about that.
Posted 17 months ago.
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Back from holiday so going to get into it again, got a little bit of time each day. I guess it may take a month. I have a plan this time, still some details to sort but basically got the whole thing mapped out. I expect I will learn a few new things along the way that may change aspects of it too.
So to start with I have decided that my custom lensboards will have a dimension of 80x80mm. I cut down the ones I made before to this size so not loss. Because I am going for a 4x5 now I want to not have things any bigger than they need to be. The adapter board will be made to hold these, if I get another size then I will make another adapter boards.
My adapter is going to be 10mm thick so this 5mm board will fit in without any fancy edge grooves.
Next is to cut down the sheet of glass I ground while I was away, 7"x7" and chip the corners... hope it goes well.
Originally posted 17 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 17 months ago.
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I was pretty nervous, but got lucky and the glass cutting worked out. So this glass I ground with only the 600 grit, it is a much smoother and misty finish, I tried it out on another camera and it looks good. It doubles the time to about an hour for an A4 size piece. I ended up going for a square finish because I intend to use the back in landscape and portrait orientation. The chip off the corner to check for a clear view to the front, no bellows interference.
I didnt get a clean line a few times on the corners, not a problem though because with a bit of time, flat surface, you can sand them with ordinary sandpaper. It helped give a nice finish and takes off sharpe edges too.
Originally posted 17 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 17 months ago.
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Built the adapter board to hold the lens board
I learnt a few things, this was my second attempt. A third attempt need to be made but that can be for the next one, I think this will work OK. First thing is for joinery, everything has to have a lap of some sort. I realised this when thinking about the camera a few days ago. I cant have a join go all the way through to the bellows area because it will probably leak light. So I have been designing joins so they all lap part way through (zigzag).
The first attempted fail because it got too fussy. Part way through I realise there is a really simple way to make this, its just a frame, so do a standard single lapped join (top, bottom 50% at each corner). Then cut out the fancy bits once together, it went much better like that, and faster. So a table saw to cut a 14mm plank, thicknessed to 10mm, ripped to 40mm width. Then used a fine tooth cross cut blade to cut 140mm lengths and laps. Glued overnight. Then used the routing table with a bearing set to 10mm gap for cutting, to groove the outer area and inner frame.
On the inner frame this gave me the circular corners. I like them so cut my lens board to fit. On reflection I should have chiselled them square. It is tricky getting a matching curve. I used some 1x20mm aluminium to make the catches. I am not keen on them, they look too chunky. I would prefer a finer took to them. Also I have used screws to attach them at this stage. I only have one lens so am not changing it, also I am not sure how to cut a slot in metal?
One other tip for next time, make any joins at a different depth to grooves. I had the groove half way through and also the lap at 50%, so when I cut the groove I ended up with a lot of glue from the join, pain to clean up.
Next, the front frame.
Originally posted 17 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 17 months ago.
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I reworked the adapter and lens board. I didn’t like the chunky round look in the end. I chiselled out the corners. It meant remaking the lens boards but this time I got a nice tight hole match to the lens and the boards are 5mm exactly now, not 5.5 or so they were before. I also slightly deepend the hole they go into so I can add so soft light blocking material to cushion the board tightly in place.
For the aluminium I wanted a finer look so cut the 20mm in half lengthwise. I don’t like using a hacksaw so did it by feeding the strip into a grinding disk on my mitre saw… gets hot… really hot. There was a lot of clean up, a belt sander seemed to take care of a lot of the work. Bit of filing and then drill/debur. I sanded down to 600 because I like the clean misty look on the metal, I know it will mark, but for now it looks good.
Posted 17 months ago.
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The frame went well, building on the lessons learnt so far. A lot of the work is repetition of the things done already. This stage of the frame is just to accept the adaptor board. This is the same as the adaptor board in that there is a 10mm lap/groove 5mm below the front surface. I have put a little extra wiggle room for adding a half mm bit of vinyl for light sealing. I was going to put the fasteners straight in a vertical line but it looked odd, and this square layout seems better to me. It will not interfere with the attachment to the standard, working on that now.
The overall dimension is 160mm square.
Posted 17 months ago.
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Today I finished adding the method for attaching the frame to the front standard. It is just a M6 bolt on each side, but that will give me tilt and rise/fall. It will go into a slot on the standard and there will be a two knobs clamping it all down tight. Right now I have wing nuts on there just to not get stuck on how to make the knobs/clamps, not sure about that yet. The aluminium is a surface to clamp against, lots of flat surface area. It also gives the bolt head something to brace against. I have two screws at the top ends that clamp the two laps. The two screws near the bolt are for mechanical strength.
The other idea I considered was just to have a short bit recessed into the frame, pros and cons I guess. Using some lubricant like CRC really helps the counter sink tool cut without clogging, also reduced heat a lot. Drilling the matching holes into the wood went well if I put in two screws first then then used the metal as a template for drilling the other holes. The wood screws are countersunk since the heads will scrape the standards surface during tilting.
Just the bellows attachment to do, but I am going to leave that till I have done the back frame too. Next is the front standard, man this is the part I am least looking forward too, almost all metal work and I just don’t have the tools for that sort of thing. Will work something out I guess.
Originally posted 17 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 17 months ago.
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I cut the slots for the tilt/rise today. I had hoped for better but this was a nice result. I have made a few modifications to the jigs and with the practice on the first two could do a better job on the next one but that will be for another time. So here is the result, just the slot cut and the rounded end.
I have made two jigs to get this result. I was frustrated with the clean up after using the cutting blade to grind/melt through the bar so have made something to hold the work steady and have run the jig saw along a fence (1). It is just a bit of MDF with a trench cut to match the bar (3), it is clamped down on a bench so it sandwiches the bar firmly, don’t want it moving. Then I added a fence to run the jig saw against (2). Very careful to make sure everything is square. Work is clamped, slowly let the jig saw (cheap Bunnings, more expensive blade since that’s doing the cut) move through the work, gentle force, not pushing and a very nice result, just a little filing at the end.
I had a few ideas for cutting the slot, but got lucky and the first one worked out. I decided to mill it. I used my drill press and made a jig to hold the work. For metal this seems to be important, you really need to have the work secured down. The jig has a trench for the bar to slide through. The base is clamped down under the drill. Some top bits hold the work firmly but can be adjusted to let is slide with a push on the end. So after marking it all out I slide it in and drilled out as much material as I could beforehand (4, 5, 6). I wanted the vertical action to do as much of the work as possible, there are not enough bearings holding the shaft on a drill press to take much horizontal force/vibration. I then used an “endmill” to clean up the bits in between the holes from a drill bit (7). That is the secret weapon. It is a proper milling bit (approx. $20) so does a nice job on the soft metal in the drill press, as long as you go slowly with no room for the work to move about. It saved me a lot of filing/cutting.
Then to round the end I put a belt sander in the wood vice and after marking out the radius just sanded the extra off (8). Lastly I cleaned up the whole thing with hand sandpaper (9).
I have left the other end unfinished and a bit longer that I need. I am not a 100% sure on the centre height yet. I suspect I wont know till I have built the back standard and frame. I could have a good guess but I think it will be better to wait and be sure, I don’t want to have to make these again because they were a bit short.
Posted 17 months ago.
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I was just about to start the base, then have had a bit of a redesign so put that on hold for today. To get maximum extension I am going to need to have course adjustment control on the font and the back. I was just going to do it on the back standard and fine adjustment on the front, that’s out the window today. The reason is the balance of good compression for wide angle and good extension for close focusing, bit of a balancing act. So the base is going to be a fixed frame for the tripod mount. The back standard is going to slide forward along it for a complete movement from front to back. The font standard is going to be mounted on another frame that slides on the base one and the front standard mounted at the front of this second frame. Both are course hand adjusted. See how that goes for focusing, if no good then will add a fine adjustment method. Both standards are going to fold down so that adds a bit of complication.
I think I have the plan now though so next, the frame for the front standard.
Posted 17 months ago.
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Made the basic frame for the sliding front base today, its glueing now. I will cut grooves and bits tomorrow hopefully. The outer dimension of 20x25cm, the raw cross section is is 40x12mm. Only got a very short bit of time each day now while some other stuff needs to be done.
The work in the coming weeks is going to be fun, I will get a few movements working and the front part will start to look more finished.
Posted 17 months ago.
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The frame glued up well. I cut a rebate to give a tenon that slides in a U shape bit of extrusion, one on each side. Once I have the base to attach it to I will drill the attachment points and stop. This time I made the groove depth at a different level to the glue lap, it made a nicer joint and was easier to clean up (PVA just seems to remelt when sanded).
Next is building the shift movement for the front standard.
Posted 17 months ago.
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I had a few ideas from other designs about how to mount the support for the front standard. I think some other ideas were better but also a lot harder to make. Generally this seems to be the one that is on most DIY cameras so I thought I would give it a go, if it isn’t stiff enough or dosnt lock down tight enough I can always to another type. The other one that I was interested in separated the shift and swing, might do that depending on how this one goes.
So it turns out that as well as being able to use woodwork tools for metal (with the right care and cutters) you can use metal work tools for wood. After cutting the slot in the metal bit I thought I might as well do the wood since I was all setup, worked well. Also metal files were nice for cleaning up the inside of the slot, faster than sandpaper. I have metal on both ends of the bolt to spread the load and stop the wood from bruising, the metal will mark over time but will wear a lot better. The bolt head spins when tightening down the wing nut so I added a bit of wood to hold it on one face. It doesn’t have to take much torque since it is more a clamping action, just needed it to stay in place while tightening. I recessed the head of the bolt since this whole frame is going to be sliding along another surface. The top bit of metal is recessed just for looks, it doesn’t need to be.
Next the angle bracket to hold the folding front standard.
Originally posted 17 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 17 months ago.
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Little helper :)
Originally posted 17 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 17 months ago.
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Not much time at the moment, painting the house, might have to rest it a few days. All I got today was half an hour, so made the angle brackets to hinge the front standard between use and store positions
It was so tempting to pop a hole in the standard to see how it looks but being patient. Have to wait till I know the height front the postion of the back standard. If your designing one yourself then some thought need to go into how you can fold it down without hitting the rear support pivot fastener.
All the bolts I am using are M6, the wood screws are 4G 12mm. Washers are 1/4 since Bunnings dosnt seem to do metric. So far all wood is recycled framing timber, regular aluminium extrusion from any generic tool store, and easy to access fastners. I am trying to avoid anything exotic if I can.
Originally posted 17 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 17 months ago.
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Not much time today while painting my house. But I wanted to get this little part made. This is the bolt that is used to pivot the bracket that holds the standard up. If I left the head on the bolt it would be hit by the standard as it folded down so it has to be flush. There are a few ways to get around this from what I have seen, some design solutions and some engineering. I have used a regular machine screw because it has a round head.
The metal in the head is removed down to about 1mm, the size of a washer. After trying a few methods I settled on just grinding it with a bench grinder. It made pretty sparks. In the photo you can see a before and after of the bolt. I have also put one in its final position to show it mounted. It sits in a recess cut with an endmill bit in a drill press.
Posted 17 months ago.
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Glueing the base tonight. 25x25cm outer. It is just a lapped frame again, 60x15mm wood bars.
Posted 17 months ago.
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The gluing wasn’t great, lots of clean up sanding. Still missed a few bits of glue which show up as light patches when oil/wax is applied. It is good enough though, just a cosmetic but a little disappointing. I might have another go at sanding it when I do some more work on it. The runners are screwed on. The screw has to be countersunk for when the other frame slides along the channel. The hole above is for the screwdriver to get through, but it doesn’t effect the use.
The bottom shot shows that front frame I made a bit earlier in its position. There is a little bit of slop but it has a pretty good sliding action, not sure if I will tighten it up or not, probably not. I am going to add a clamp to fix it once in position so we will see.
Next will be the end stops for the front frame and the position clamp.
Posted 17 months ago.
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Today I had the idea to use the clamp as the stops, it looks like it will work. For locking the frame in the runner I decide to try out a clamp system. On the bottom frame I left 20mm at the front to locate the clamp. The wooden part is screwed to the bottom frame. I put two guides for the bar to slide on, they are just nails that have been sanded to look nice. They stop the bar from rotating and hold it in the optimal position. They can be pulled out but are in tight, right through to the bottom frame, but not entirely through so you don’t see them from underneath.
The bolt does the clamping via the wing nut (to be replaced with a knob sometime). The bolt head is made not to spin and is held tightly so it does not fall out if the wing nut is removed completely. It has a washer to add extra surface area to compress against. The aluminium bar is 1mm and is not flexed beyond its spring back ability. It holds the frame pretty firmly. You can also put on just a bit of clamp force to hold but also allow to slide a bit.
The inner frame hitting the clamp base acts as the stops, its perfect.
I was asked about the plan I am using for this. I dont have a plan outside my head. It is just the best ideas I have seen on other cameras. Some parts I have several ideas for and am just using the one that works first. My experience with wood working is working on our house, not this fine stuff, so its all new to me. I have shot about 4-5 rolls of 35mm film in my life, I am not an analog boy. This is just fun and I hope to use it for two projects I want to do this year and a third one next year.
I am just trying to say anyone could do this, its not rocket science. Give it a go if your inclined.
Originally posted 17 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 17 months ago.
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I was a bit worried the metal for the clamp would eat the wood so I added a rail to each side.
Next the back standard rails
Posted 17 months ago.
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This is awesome! Thats some very nice Rimu you have there. If you want to have a look/play with my camera before finalising the design of yours you are welcome, as usual there are things you don't find until you've made it.
Posted 17 months ago.
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Back to work today, so not much done. I thought it might be interesting to see the main tools I use and the stock, no magic.
All wood has come from some 2x4 remu second hand stud. All fastners and aluminium from Bunnings (tool wharehouse for handy people, not really trade). Standard thicknesser and table saw. The secret weapon is calipers, $25 from Mitre 10 Mega. Just slow and careful seems to really pay off.
I have been capturing ideas from all over the place, including revisting your design. There seems like 10 ways to do the same thing so having my best guess often. Already I would do many things differetnly, but as you say doing it is helping make a lot of things clear. This is a practice run... if it all works out then I ultimately want to do a panorama LF, big for contact printing with alt processes talked about in that other thread. I have the pictrure I want to do already visulised, just need the camera.
Its a process I guess. Cut the stock for the back frame today, setup for cutting the laps but ran out of time, tomorrow. Spent a bit of time working out dimensions, I am oversizing everything on this 4x5 because I have in mind building a back that will hold my digital camera for a few shots I want to do. I should be able to get something up to 8x8 on this if I can get a lens with that sort of coverage some time. With the digital back I avoid some problems with building a shutter too, but I am getting ahead of myself, time will tell.
Posted 17 months ago.
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Added the outer channel for the back frame to slide along, it will be easier to see when the slider is installed. It’s a really hot (mid summer here) and humid day today. I was surprised to see how much the wood has swelled. The bottom frame laps have grown by about half a mm. The rear frame is gluing overnight.
Tomorrow is a good camera building day. Its my birthday and I am off work the whole day. I plan to spend the day (apart from removing bees in one of my walls) making camera stuff, its going to be great.
Posted 17 months ago.
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Got a lot done today, had the whole day to potter around with it. The front and back frames are now mountable in their position for use. Once I had made the back I was confident about the front so drilled the pivot hole and rounded the ends on the standard. I used a bolt and lock nut, tightened them together and then loosened just a bit. That makes a nice pivot point. I still need to make the brace and brackets on the front but it is close to being ready for light sealing.
The back frame glues last night and I rebated the hole in the back of it for back-boards to go into. The bellows end frame will just slide in the other side. Spent a bit of time making the pivot point. The last thing was making the carriage to slide the back forward for focus or wide angle lenses. The only movement on the back is tilt. If I end up needing more then I think I can modify or remake the carriage, but will wait to see if it is a problem or not in use.
It was a real joy to see it all folded up and then opened. A lot of planning came together at this point (er and guessing with fingers crossed). I was pretty happy that the two frames are cantered and when they collapse they are cantered too, for the bellows.
There is more work in clean up on what you see and a few more bits to add, before moving on to the next thing. Removing glue and sanding next, then adding the clamps to the rear sliding carriage. After that I need to make the 4 brackets to reinforce/hold the frames when they are vertical. Also a brace across the front standard.
Posted 16 months ago.
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I took the whole thing apart. I have been using 50/50 bees wax and linseed oil to finish. I am not sure that is going to be good enough, esp against water so will probably refinish the wood… perhaps spray varnish, looking into that now. I need to also clean up some bit to a finished state so doing that while it is all in bits.
Here is something else I have been thinking about. I laid this out in Photoshop and printed it on transparency. It is a grid with half inch squares covering the whole ground glass, and the corners for 4x5 in portrait and landscape (also centres) I like the look of it so will add it as a layer over the ground glass for now.
Posted 16 months ago.
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I have decided to do the finish in linseed oil. From what I have read I need about five coats, polished and sanded with 400 grit in between. Since this one is a trial I am going to give it a go and see how it works out, but probably on the proper one I will spray varnish. Anyway, with 24 hours between coats it mean keeping it apart for a while. I have made a list of the things I need to do to finish the base and frames so that will give me somethign to do in the mean time. I want to properly finish these parts before moving onto the next part.
next, final sand/clean and Day1 of oil finish. Also, cut light seals for adapters and back since I havnt used light traps in my design.
Posted 16 months ago.
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fascinating. I wish I had these skills.
Posted 16 months ago.
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That's fantastic!!!! I'm quite excited to see the first picture.
I do also have the project to build a 5x8/5x7 camera this year. I'm working on the design at the moment. This will be a great project for the winter!
Posted 16 months ago.
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It was not a productive weekend in terms of camera building. I have coated the wooden parts with oil. They got a few drops of rain when I was transporting them to the car and have marked in what seems like a permanent way, light raised spots, so this is not the finish to use. I cannot imagine me owning a camera that doesn’t get wet at some point. So it looks like cleaning it all off and going for varnish.
On the upside, I was away and have done some reading. I finished a book on making digital negatives
www.digital-negatives.com/
I might endup with a sort of hybrid process so was curious to know more about creating a negative for contact printing from a digital file. It looks like it might work, but the proof will be in the result. This is something I am aiming to try out later this year.
The other book I just started was specifically about platinum printing, since that is the process I most want to start learning by the end of this year.
www.dickarentz.com/
This book looks too detailed for me but is an interesting skim read for me as a novice.
I think what I am doing anyone could, you dont need the skill to start with but perhaps a certain persistance to get past the frustrating stages of learning would help, oh and a plan.
I have perhaps another 2-3 months before taking my first picture, I am curious to see the result myself. It would be interesting to see what you come up with. There is a lot fo fantastic material on the web for camera builders now. I agree about it being a good winter project, the timing for me has not been good with a number of other things happening, but then that is always the way.
Posted 16 months ago.
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It's great you detailed your camera project here! You did a great job!
Here is a screen snapshot of the camera I'm currently working on. It will be made of aluminum and wood (black maire).
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/stormpetrel_geek_mode/5403718981/]
I'm still working on the design which is largely inspired from the Chamonix camera.
The camera will be 5x8/5x7. Hope I will have enough free time to make it this winter!
Posted 16 months ago.
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That looks great. Planning it out in a CAD package is such a good idea for working through the details. If I had more metal working tools/skills I would have gone for something mroe like the Chamonix (esp now the "online photographer" Mike is popularising it. For wood the Argentum design seems most do able. Keep us up to date of progress or links to where you are posting about it.
Posted 16 months ago.
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Stripped all the wooden parts with several washes of methylated spirits (for the wax removal). Giving them a sanding at the moment and then will spray with varnish on the weekend. Little unmotivated while doing this rework, but it has to be done I guess. The next one is going to be much better after this practice run.
Posted 16 months ago.
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I put the first coat of varnish on today. It has taken a little while to prepare the pieces. I am not sure the proper way but what I did was give the wooden pieces a good rub down with methylated spirits. Then re-sanded. One more rub with meth’s and then the final grade of sanding to finish off.
I selected a marine varnish, not sure if it will make any difference. 3 costs one day apart. I have a cheap compressor and spray kit, for this sort of thing I think they are fine, you not needing a lot of bar and the compressor catches up during swapping to next piece. I hung each bit by some of its screws. The spraying was done outside and then I hung them to dry inside, its easy to move them when they are on a wire. The proper drying time is 12 hours but it is really humid at the moment so I thought I would give it a little longer. These size bits used hardly any varnish.
Posted 16 months ago.
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I think spaying varnish is like woodworking, patience is rewarded, but mybe even more so. I was putting a coat on today and thought I would spray just a bit more than normal to make this the final rather than doing one more coat... and it started to sag (ugly pre drip stage), oops. So going to have to sand (I do varnish at 320-400 grit) and give it another coat. I should have been patient. They look pretty good in varnish though. Next time I would use a satin rather than gloss though, very shiny.
Posted 16 months ago.
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All done now with the varnish, nothing like doing it to realise how to make it better next time. Here are all the bits and pieces so far, probably about 70% finished.
Posted 16 months ago.
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Going to have a little break on the camera body and do the bellows next. I got information from all over the web, some good videos on youtube. This guy has a great overall look at it and I found it really readable compared to some of the other sites
my.net-link.net/~jsmigiel/bellows.html
I have gone for 45° corners. I think it makes the stiffener layout easier... could be wrong, never done this before. I have a couple dimensions from the camera build. The frames outer dimensions are important ones because it sets the end starting widths and drop. I made the frames pretty big on the camera so I don’t have to worry about the inner opening. The length is from the camera limits. Front standard to back standard under worst case movements.
Then you get some rough guides. Bellows length is around 1.3 times actual length. Stiffeners have some standard widths depending on the camera size. I went to 20mm pleats. The stiffeners are around 1/8th inch (3mm) smaller than material dimensions to give room for movement. Add a bit more material for ends, depending on how your going to attach it.
I did my layout in Photoshop, not really geared for it but it will do. I will probably try a paper one to make sure it works out for dimensions. The final materials for me on this one are vinyl for the inner layer, card stiffeners, and material outside.
Originally posted 16 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 16 months ago.
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Looking good Tony, where did you get your material for bellows from? I struggled to find anything thin enough and still light proof here.
Posted 16 months ago.
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I saw a bellows you did recently on your flickr stream so you prob know more about this than me, just theory at teh moment on my end.
Because I am not sure if it will work I have decided to just use stuff from the local emporium that looks right on the first one. If it works out then will pay the cost to get the good stuff.
So black vinyl for the inner (light proofing), manilla folder card for middle layer (stiffeners), and some material for the outer layer of the sandwhich (colour options and something that might give nice crisp edges). For the material I have some PVC backed stuff I use for book binding, thermal curtain I think it is called. all these are cheap, <$10 per meter (with the rol being 2m long). Going to experiment a bit to get something on the outer layer that holds it all together but lets me fold a nice crease too.
er yeah, so not the best stuff, if it works out I will import some proper stuff. I have also read about others using that stuff they make your black cloth covers from, or light tent material (film changing tent).
I should also say that the layout I have done puts the pleats on two sides below the frame outer and two sides out from the frame. I have done this because it was easier to think about for me. I guess I should try and do it so all four sides are the same and go 50/50... see how this goes
Originally posted 16 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 16 months ago.
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Cut the bellows cloth (red on the outside) from my photoshop pattern. Just need to make the card stiffeners and hope to have my first attempt on the weekend of folding it. It is much bigger than I expected... hope that isnt a mistake.
Posted 16 months ago.
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agh, cutting out the stiffeners, 112 of them, what a pain. Halfway, should finish tonight. I printed them out and glued them to some think card. Trying to do the bulk of the cutting with a guillotine.
Posted 16 months ago.
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Glued up the bellows today, phew, it wasn’t a disaster. So many things can go wrong doing this stage, bit of luck helps. The inner liner laid down first, added the stiffeners, glued (contact glue) the outer on then the trickiest part, joining the seam. Folding is pretty straight forward.
I had hoped for crisper edges on the folds but to be honest am just grateful I don’t have to do it again anytime soon, so much preparation/planning. I have the two frames to go in the ends gluing at the moment. I will put up a nicer picture tomorrow when it is finished.
Have the wooden bits all back together. I cut the bolts to length for the adjustments. One thing I found good to do when trimming a threaded bolt is to put a couple of nuts on before doing the cutting. After the clean up I take the bolts off and it gets rid of any burrs or debris. Its harder to put something on than it is to take something off a thread.
Posted 16 months ago.
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Its been a big day in camera building, not in things done but in terms of my learning. I attached the bellows. First gluing and stapling the wooden frames into the bellow ends, then screwing them into the final locations. For repairing any damage to the existing varnish I just used a paper towel to rub a new layer on, and can touch it up using the old wiping method (to avoid brushes and control the amount applied)
I was pretty pleased at first. It all seemed to go well and looked good. Then I noticed some things, the bellows is pretty thick, even compressed. I think the materials I used are too thick, good to find out now on the practice one, but there ya go. Being thick it does not stretch out as much meaning the 1.3 length multiplication factor is to small. It stretched out but I will have no swing at full extension. The materials I have used are always trying to go back to equalibrium too, and they are strong, resisting andy adjustments. Also the whole thing does not fold up, I have to slide off the rear to pack it up.
The bellows get in the way of a couple of other part on the camera when trying to fold it up. The front standards hit it coming down, unless I do the swivel of the frame at the top of standard then bring it to the bottom to fold. Also the rear pleat is in the path of the back frame coming down and it hits the metal. I had just thought of the bellows as being in space but it is in the paths of some mechanical actions.
Not wanting to wait I made a quick frame and mounted my ground glass on the back to checkout the view. The method for the ground glass looks good, nice image, good sharpness. I would say though that the viewing angle is pretty narrow, so your eye has to be straight on or it darkens. This is going to mean moving my head around the screen a bit. The one thing I was quite surprised to see was how in less than bright light it was really really dark, especially with the bellows extended. So inside I had to put a cloth over my head, and even then it was dim.
This is not he camera for taking photo of my daughter, it is too slow to setup..tooooooo slow.
One other thing from playing around using it today to view, all the movements need to be able to lock down stongly. They also need to be able to do little wee adjustments. I found making slight changes could throw the focus off (I like shallow DOF so will need the accuracy). I think setup times are going to be really long, not sure this is really going to be practical as a portrait camera
The last and probably most important thing I realised is that the working extension range is shorter than I guessed. I need to be able to get the standards closer together (I can squeeze them in but they are resisting strongly) and I don’t really need the long extension I have designed around. I was intending to have a subject at about 2m or more away, I simply don’t need to have the standards so far apart (unless it is diff at another focal length?).
… dang.
I had my first thoughts about just buying one, saw a nice 4x5 setup go on trademe for around $800 the other day.
www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=351636697
Nah, I gotta get at least one shot out of it.
Originally posted 16 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 16 months ago.
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I found the same thing with my bellows. It ended up not making sense to me to make my own, when I could have a set of proper ones off ebay for ~$45 USD that are basically superior to anything I could make. I might have gotten close using the material from a film change bag.
Posted 16 months ago.
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I agree about buying them. I enjoyed giving it a go but I would only make one again if it was for something custom that wasnt easy to buy. A standard 4x5 bellows, yeah just buy it, ha ha
For crisper edges, I think on reflection I should have left bigger gaps on the stiffeners so I could have enough loose stuff to pinch it to an edge. But the most bang for buck would be to use really thin covers I guess
Originally posted 16 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 16 months ago.
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This is looking really good. People always seem to encounter the same or similar issues with their first build, but it looks like you seem to have a good grasp of what to change in the future.
The narrow viewing angle and having to move your head around is a pretty common thing. One way to make this a little less frustrating is to get one of those A4 fresnel magnifying lenses old people like to use to make reading easier (http://www.blaxalloptics.co.nz/shop/show_single_product.php?prod=122). I cut one down and threw it on the back of my ground glass and it makes the angle much more tolerable, especially with dimmer lenses. A super dark darkcloth instead of an old t-shirt (which does little more than provide a tiny bit of shade) I found also makes the dimmer edges/corners much more visible.
Posted 15 months ago.
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Does anyone know where I can get a small amount of instant sheet film, 4x5 I guess, not worried about BW or colour. I would like to do some test shots in a month so better start thinking about it now.
I wish I didnt have to make these mistakes, but it just seems to be the way I learn. These cameras are supprisingly complicated, well, I am supprised anyway. I will look into those fresnal overlays. Good tips, thanks.
I made the front standard brackets. They make everything so much easier, now that it can be set and hold itself on its own. It is pretty stable but if I apply some force to it I can move it a fair bit because of the slack in my bolt pivots. This design might work but could def be improved by some good engineering. At a place I worked (embedded systems) they always said you had to write a bit of code at least once to realise all the problems that need to be overcome and to generate a good architecture. My next one is going to be soo much better. I plan to work with this one some more though to work stuff out. Three main things left now, clamps for the back runners, securing it to a tripod and making a back system for the ground glass and media.
Originally posted 15 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 15 months ago.
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I can give you a couple of sheets of standard BnW film and some dev if you want? Either that or some photo paper, thats quite good for test shots.
Posted 15 months ago.
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Shangai GP3 4x5 on trademe (25 sheet, $26)
www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Film-cameras/Ot...
Posted 15 months ago.
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Hey thanks, been really busy with some house changes, might be for a bit longer too, dang cause just feeling the enthusiasm again. This might be turning into a winter project. My goal is a contact print by the end of the year so not behind I guess.
I was thinking about the polaroid/instant as the inital test capture media because I have zero film experience. I will need to look up photopaper too, have heard the term but no idea what that is.
I will see if I can get a couple of things on what I have finished, then plan teh backs in more detail, a few directions I could go on them. Thanks heaps for the offer/info though.
Originally posted 15 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 15 months ago.
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Had a bit of time this weekend to get some more bits done. Was going to do the rear frame film/glass mounting but still have some indecision on that so did some other bits and pieces.
I popped a base plate on it and screwed my tripod mount on. I just used a bit of scrap wood for now, I might do something fancy later depending on how stable I need it all to be and when centre of mass is known etc. This square has a rebate cut into it to pop into the square hold from the base frame, it is fairly snug but I put a whole lot of screws through too... classy aye. This could be done better and I tell myself it is temporary to feel better about the whole thing. I need to mount it on a tripod, but until I use it I am not sure what tripod will be adequate and stable enough, might need a double type mount.
I added the locks to the back standard slider. They are just a clamp stop. One end of the block is loosely screwed in, still with a slight bit of movement, the other is clamped down with the wing nut. I was going to add something grippy to glue to the wood to brake it against the aluminium, like vinyl perhaps, but it seems to lock down OK with out so might add that later.
I have put in a shot of the bellows frame mounted into the rear standard frame because I am not sure if it was clear how I did it. It was made to just fit inside the frame and those four corner bits of wood are the stops. Then it was drilled and screwed in the middle on all four sides, you can see the screw heads just sticking out. The same thing was done at the other end, so it is completely removable later. The rear film/glass holder sits in that rebate you have facing you, that’s the next job, figuring that out.
The frame is 25cm square. I think I will go for 4x5 to start with since materials are easy to get hold of and unless I want artsy vignette then I only have the lens coverage for about that. So I think that means making a reduction back, and then a film holder adapter. I am thinking at this stage to buy a few 4x5 holders and convert one of them to hold a ground glass, just to get things moving along. Scott Perry describes making a reduction back on this blog over several entries.
scottperryphoto.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/asanuma-project-...
Originally posted 13 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 13 months ago.
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Making the back at the moment. Its funny, you take a break for a bit and its suddenly like I am useless in the workshop. Had several attempts at making a few parts and rushed too much or was sloppy with accuracy, so god pretty average to bad results. Need to get into the flow again.
So the reduction back as I see it is three parts. A frame to reduce the size of the aperture in the back, an adaptor to put the film/glass holder into, and some mechanism to hold them in place (I am leaning towards a sprung lever). Cut the reduction frame and holder today, they are gluing now. Hope to shape them and have them together by the weekend?
Then working on making the lever, I have a plan in my head on that, hope it works.
Posted 13 months ago.
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Have some bits and pieces starting to arrive.
Fixer was from snapshot locally in Hamilton ($20). The film was from this trademe sale
www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=372729826
He is selling a bit by the look of it, very fast and well packaged, but dont know if film is any good? (did I mention already I have not done this before, he he) Yeah that piece in the photo is prob a bit over exposed by now I guess. I just wanted to play in light with loading a holder and see what it looks like so it was a donor for my experience.
The reduction back fits in nicely to the camera. Just got to work on the method of holding the film/glass holder in place, hope to do that this weekend or next weekend
Originally posted 13 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 13 months ago.
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Working on the reduction back. The adaptor for the film hold and the reduction frame are glued together. They did not 100% mate and I didn’t cut a light trap, so I made a gasket and glued it in between them to fill the slightly varying space. The back is square so can be loaded portrait of landscape
I also made a carrier for the focusing screen. Unfortunately there was a little accident and it flew off the router in several pieces. The bottom right picture is it all clamped down and gluing. I think I might have cut the rebate for the glass so it is pretty much the same position as the film will be. We’ll see how it looks tomorrow. It is designed to sit in the same place as the film holder. I ground a new focusing glass to fit in. That line down the side of the glass is a slight groove and so it missed being abraded. I could take it out but for now I am not worried, see how things go.
Got some trays for development today too. Snapshot Camera in Hamilton has access to a bunch of darkroom gear for sale and very generously gave me the three I think I will need. I had been going to use kitchen plastic containers but these seem better, spout on the corner for pouring and grooves in the bottom to allow picking up sheet film sitting on the bottom.
Posted 13 months ago.
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Varnished the back today. I have ended up attaching it with bolts and washers (will post a picture in teh next few days after the next bit is done)
The glass holder frame was not repairable so I have made another one today, just gluing now. I will shape it then attach it to the back with bar springs. I was going to use a lever but the movement is so small I think its not worth the effort.
Posted 13 months ago.
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Shaped the frame for the glass today
This shot shows it in position, although there are no fittings yet. It is the roughly the same size as the film holder. Bit looser than the holder since it is going to be a moving part, I think I am going to need to add some thick fabric to light seal the film holder against the back.
I am experimenting with material to use as the spring. It has to be able to bend without deforming, but be able to be deformed to curl around the pins holding it on. I was thinking about hacksaw blades but they turned out to be too brittle to make the attachment rings to the frame, great tension though. I got a cheap trowel and am cutting that into strips… seems a bit weak for the spring back, might try using a double or sandwich method with the hacksaw blades and trowel metal, need to experiment a bit more.
The four bolts go into those four posts on the corners seen in pictures above, just finger tight. I realise now I am going to have to do a light sealing run through at the end. Gaskets and matt black paint for all the areas without light traps.
Originally posted 13 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 13 months ago.
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Got the spring back finished today, phew. It is drying right now from a varnish spray and some glueing but will put a shot tomorrow. It seems to have work nicely in the end, phew, what a releif to have that done.
Posted 13 months ago.
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So here is the spring back, it is hard to show how it works in picture so I did a quick video (not sure why I cant embed here?, but there is the link).
www.flickr.com/photos/tonyandrach/5709215991/in/photostream
I ended up compromising for speed and less stress. I used the springy but brittle material from a $3.50 emporium trowel for the spring and riveted some little tin sliders to go onto the pins (nails) attached to the focusing frame. This shot shows the film holder pushed in place.
Here are some details. At bottom right you can see I have had to shape the locating box so that the spring can hold the focus screen hard against the window, like the film holder will be when it is in place. The distance from my window to the film plane is about 5mm, my window to focusing screen seems to be about 4.98mm, so as good as I can do with my tools. The upper right is the focusing screen frame upside down to show the nature of the springs… not much to it aye. I should polish those nail heads to look nicer. The left picture is showing a film holder in place and the light trap I am using to lock it in. There is also one cut on the other side.
And finally here is what I am guessing I will need to film development, I have no idea about this so will need to read that datasheet.
Next is light sealing the camera. To night I have painted all the internal bits matt black and soaked the paint into any joins. Here is some good information on light leaks
www.largeformatphotography.info/leaks.html
Originally posted 13 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 13 months ago.
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Here is a shot of the inside after doing a light leak sealing.
Mainly it was painting matt black over most parts and cutting gaskets for any joins. It seems OK but time will tell. I think there are only a couple of things left to do now, but nothing that will stop me doing some trials with film to see how its looking. I was going to do it this weekend but remembered I am away. I will take the stuff but not sure if there will be opportunity to do anything.
I bought a thermometer and heating element for aquariums today. I am going to make a bath for my trays to sit in and have heated water in that. Hopefully it will give me some thermal capacity to regulate the chemicals. I hope to be in the ballpark anyway. I have quite enjoyed playing around with focusing on the ground glass this evening, I sure do hope this translates to film OK. I have a project in mind for this if it works out…. now where is that developer data sheet…
Posted 13 months ago.
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Hi Tony,
Great work! Looks like you might have bought your film off me on TradeMe? Shanghai...yeah? I remember a buyer asking about the Ilfosol dev and I think that's a box of Shanghai film I see in the tray.
Will be great to hear how you get on with the development as I've not tried Ilfosol (or D76) with this film.
Cheers
Mark
Posted 13 months ago.
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Been following your journey here Tony, and it's looking pretty awesome mate. If you need help interpreting the numbers on the chems let me know and I'll swing by
Posted 13 months ago.
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Yep thats the stuff. I have nothing to compare this film too but seems fine to me , with no experience though I would not think this is not an informed view:)
I used your advice of treating it like FP4 plus and seemed to get predictable results, thanks... might get some more later.
agh, wish I had seen that offer before I went away for the weekend, oh well. I do have some questions below if you have some ideas.
So this is the first photo I took. The camera is on a tripod and I focused on the first bolt in that post. The idea was is my focus is way off I should be able to detect it (ground glass and film plane not lining up). The shutter is me putting the lens cap on and off so I needed a long exposure. I was going to do 4 sec but then decided 8 for safety. I got my base exposure from my DSLR, I don’t have a light meter. Then using my film speed recommendation of 100 and shutter of 8 sec I go my aperture, F64. I had selected an area that I new would kinda give me this range after having a few hours to do the calcs in my head on the trip over to our batch.
I think because I was so nervous on this first one it made me double and triple check everything. It looks like there is a little bit of light coming in the darkslide slot (see top left corner). The next shot was using the second shot in the one film holder I have at the moment. I decided to over expose and develop both together, just in case the camera was off. Turned out that the camera is probably giving me about 1-2 stops over so I need to underexpose, but I didn’t know that at the time. Also I have not taken into account bellows factors, which I think would have made it darker, or reciprocity which also would have made darker, so pretty sure I need to under expose.
The third shot was done after developing the first two and I was more confident it was going to work so asked my wife Rachel to be in it. Since I think it would be hard to stay still for 8 seconds I went for a 1 second exposure. This was where my first mistake happened. I focused on f/9 but needed to shot at f/16… and forgot to change it before exposing. So I was one and an a half stops over to start with, and at least one stop off in my calcs so blew that shot out (who knows if I was over or under developing too) So the shot on the left is the inverted scanned negative. Just for fun I edited it to see what was there in the highlights, very surprised to see enough for a photo. Kinda has an antique look about it too.
The last shot is where I think I got it in the ball park. At f/16 I figured the DOF was going to be to big for my taste and so I tilted the lens board forward about 20° or so. I am suing a lens I bought recently and it arrived on Friday. It is 250mm with 8x10 coverage so can do some pretty radicle movements, but I don’t get that cool lens failure in the corners that I love the look of (vignette and oval distortion, swirly bokeh). The picture is soft, but that could have been a number of things. Perhaps this sort of photography doesn’t get sharpness like digital, or more likely I messed it up somewhere. On this one I have done some curves adjustments too but didn’t crop right in since this is a test shot. This one was still over exposed and one day I will work on that, when I have a repeatable shutter, but for now its fine for what I want to do.
So the whole darkroom thing. At our batch I decided the bathroom was the room I wanted. I only had to black out the door and a small window. I used weedmat, not the woven one but the solid black plastic that comes in big rolls. I taped the window and door, waited inside for a few minutes and was really surprised how much light was coming in from other places. Anyway, got it roughly light tight. I loaded the film holders in there, that took a bit of time to get the hang of and having the donor piece to practice on really helped. The key for me was having everything laid out neatly and once open, sliding the film along towards the end. When you felt it click down on each edge you knew it was in the right place to slide back the other way and into the holder.
I tried to keep the film holder light sheltered as much as possible and when shooting I used my dark cloth to cover the back area when pulling the slide out etc. I just assumed there were light leaks and minimised possible exposure. I developed in the dark and turned the light on after the negative had been in the fixer about a minute. Here is the method I used with the above chemicals, tap water through the whole thing too (lost the bit of paper I wrote this all down on but will correct anything if it turns up)
Developer, 1:9, 4 minutes
Stop, 1:19, 10 sec
Rapid fixer, 1:4, 5 minutes
Wash, 15 minutes
Hung on line till dry
I wish I could do this in light so there was feed back along the way, guess that’s what tests are for. Scanning was just a printer/scanner I have lying around. I did 1200 dpi, man what a mess of dust and scratches, I need to be more careful with the negatives and keep them clean
So the questions I have at the moment are (and I think the answers are “look it up”):
1/ Scanning, any tips, workflow suggestions, settings to be careful about, scan into what sort of file type?
2/ There is something I can use to help get an even dry, but I forget the name, does it work?
3/ my temps were 19-21° but that was luck, the ambient of the day, how crucial is temperature for chemistry.
4/ What’s a practical way to have a darkroom in a shared space. Right now I am thinking I will use the bathroom but only develop at night so I do have to be super careful with light sealing.
5/ what sort of sharpness should I expect relative to digital
6/ OK dumb I know, but which side do you scan for best results and how do you set it up in a flatbed, I am not sure if that is contributing to lack of sharpness, going through the plastic film and making ghosting?
Thanks if you have any hints.
Originally posted 13 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 13 months ago.
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Awesome Tony! Great to see it working after all the effort you've put in!
I haven't done LF so the others will have to chime in about scanning, but I guess having a scanner with a big enough backlight for 4x5 is a good start.
The stuff you want for even drying is Photoflo. I got mine from Photo.co.nz, they imported it from b&h for me, wasn't hugely expensive
Temp is not critical with b&w, it is with colour but I know people who don't even measure the temperature! I make sure the dev is within a degree or so, but I generally just stick my finger in the stop and fix to check temperature.
The main problem with having the film backwards in the scanner is the image will be backwards. That's about it. What scanner you using mate?
Also, because I don't shoot LF I don't know for sure, but I expect with everything set up properly it should be very sharp. I know my medium format stuff certainly is sharp on a good day
Originally posted 13 months ago.
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chris ( in awe of analogue ) edited this topic 13 months ago.
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So a funny thing, the film holders I ordered off ebay arrived and they are already loaded with film. But from the look of it they have been loaded the opposite way to how I thought they should be… I may have goofed which is the emulsion side. If I have a bit in my hand and it is shiny and plastic and the other side is flat/satin with a grey sort of colour, which one is the side that should be exposed against, facing the lens. Reading the instruction, which I may have done badly, I got the idea it is the plastic side that I have facing towards the lens, but these ones were loaded the other way… which is it? Sorry for asking such a nutty question.
Oh and along the lines of making mistakes, so Chris, you say there should be a back light on the scanner, oops. I just used a regular document reflective scanner, you know, those ones in a cheap multi-function printer... no film options, perhaps I could be getting a better scan, ha ha. Do you have one that would take this sort of film size?
So maybe I need to buy something, I wasn’t keen on spending too much more $. I want to get a contact printing kit and that was going to be about it, scanners for 4x5 or larger (looking at doing 7x7 or so on this later) look expensive.
Posted 13 months ago.
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Hi Tony, I've enjoyed following your journey. I hope this helps...
"3/ my temps were 19-21° but that was luck, the ambient of the day, how crucial is temperature for chemistry."
I have to disagree with Chris...Film developer temp is critical, particularly for shorter development times and if you want results that can be replicated. Have a look at the times on the "Massive Development chart" to see what a 2-3 degree difference will make to the development time.
www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php
I don't know anyone who has had their finger calibrated for temperature testing, and why bother when you can use a thermometer?
The temps for the following stop bath, fix and wash are not so critical, but best practice is to keep them the same or near to the developer temperature within a degree or two.
Also, your fix time is a probably too short, you risk fogging your film when you turn the light on with such a short time, particularly when the fix solution gets a bit older or it is diluted to it's max. I won't open a developing tank until the fix has been in it for a least 8 minutes.
"4/ What’s a practical way to have a darkroom in a shared space. Right now I am thinking I will use the bathroom but only develop at night so I do have to be super careful with light sealing."
I load my film holders and the development tank in a changing bag. I develop at the kitchen sink often while watching the telly or reading the newspaper. I only use a darkroom for printing. The issue of light sealing for a darkroom solely for printing is not quite as critical.
For loading sheet film... when holding the film up-right, the notches should be in the top right corner, that's the postion the film goes into the film holder. The emulsion side is the flat light grey one.
Cheers!
Originally posted 13 months ago.
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matthew_comeskey edited this topic 13 months ago.
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Embaressing post, but I am putting it up for others like me who got confused by the notch thing…
Thanks Matthew, this line was the key for me:
"... when holding the film up-right, the notches..."
Every video I looked at had the flat greyish side facing the lens but not all showed the notches so I thought some notch patterns were upper right and some lower right, and also about half the descriptions in forums had the notch in the one way and half the other. The description on my film had it in the upper right, so if your in landscape is shiny side towards you...which on my film was the reverse to videos.
So the key is, the notch description is upper right or lower right depending on if the film is landscape or portrait in front of you... sigh, it suddenly is so clear now. I didnt realise they never put the notch at the other end of the short side, inexperience I guess. If you know what emulsion should look like then it is prob obvious, but I didn’t know if it was the shiny stuff or the matt stuff so relied on the notch thing and it was sooo confusing when people seemed to be saying contradictory things. Reading the description that came with my film I missed any info about how the film was placed in front of me and I must have had it in the other orientation
So for 9 out of 10 people this information doesn’t matter because they know it already, but I wanted to post a clear picture for anyone a bit slow or confused like me. This is very embarrassing but it turns out I shot my first pictures with the film reversed
Originally posted 13 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 13 months ago.
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You need a changing box!
www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=65560
Posted 13 months ago.
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"...So for 9 out of 10 people this information doesn’t matter because they know it already..."
But Tony 10 out of 10 people didn't know this until they learnt it. And I reckon 10 out of 10 LF photographers, despite knowing it still manage to put film in the wrong way round on the one shot they really need to come out right!
Making mistakes is obviously a big part of learning, particularly when you are self taught. Don't be embarassed. If it was meant to be easy it would be digital...
Posted 13 months ago.
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I need a changing box, and to put trays in it too.
I got 5 film holders from eBay, turns out they came already loaded with film. Here is a shot I did with one, probably arista 400 from the markings. That white line down the right edge is where I opened it slighty to see if there was film in this one... there was.
This was also a bit of a scanning experiment. I looked into scanners and reality is that I don’t want to spend that much money on one at the moment ($400-$1000). So I was looking into using my document flatbed, Epson RX610 multifunction printer, cheapy. This negative was way over exposed and just came out black and blackish with a reflective scan. So I put some layers of diffusion on top of it, mainly tissue and then a 5000k bulb above that and played around with the scanner settings till it seemed to grab something useful. Also a bit of photoshop.
I am amazed at how much is recoverable from what is a duff shot, not an excuse to be sloppy but very interesting. The scanning is bad and there are problems with my negative (water got turned off during my development by a neighbour, then when it came on it was brown and left a sandy coating on the negative during washing), but to be honest I am using this style of camera to have something different and the qualities are nice to me, even leaving the border on. What ever this film is I like it, but is pretty flat out of development using the times from my other film, so on this one I did it for 8 minutes and that seemed to help, no more of it now so not worried. I think I need to just stick to one film and get the hang of it and what I can do with it.
In some ways I like the longer exposures I need to do with no shutter, see the tree leaves moving around in the wind, but it is also very limiting/variable. I think I will need to work out something in that department shortly.
Next, work on a development area and work flow for more consistent results… I am going to need more film.
Posted 13 months ago.
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Just a small clarification - I do measure the temp of my developer, but as long as my stop and fix are within a couple of degrees I'm happy. Not sure if that was what I wrote, sorry to confuse anyone
Another thing - have you thought about just photographing the neg with your digicam and inverting it in photoshop? Backlit of course
Posted 13 months ago.
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It looks like you're finally getting things ironed out here which is awesome. And don't feel bad about your mistakes so far too, I know I've burned a couple of sheets by loading them the wrong way around. LF is very methodical but eventually everything is just second nature and the mistakes only show their faces when you think you know it all.
As far as scanning goes, it is considerably easier to get good results with a scanner with a light box in the lid. Unfortunately these aren't cheap but they really are a good way to go. The other two alternatives to consider is really jumping in the deep end and contact printing now then scanning those contact prints, or make yourself a lightbox (or even just some white opaque arcylic held against a window) and shooting this with a digital before inverting in photoshop. I think this would give easier and more consistent results than scanning with a makeshift box on top of your scanner. Something to consider anyway.
I don't really like admitting this but I fall into the "pretty lazy" camp when it comes to chemical temp for developing B&W. I'm really not too bad, but my method is to heat up water to around 21ºc then move from my laundry into my "darkroom" and start as soon as the lights are off. In my perfect work inside my heat this is about how long it takes to drop to 20ºc or so… It's hardly critical but it's consistent, and my times with FP4 are generally ~10-12mins so there's a bit more leeway with the longer times. Fingers in the trays act like little bar heaters too. Though now I have a microwave in my darkroom (best thing I ever did) for heating up colour chems I'm a little more precise.
If you want a bit of a reference point let me know. I'm all too happy to go out into my backyard and shoot off a frame of FP4+ then develop it and send to you, so you can see what a semi-well shot/developed negative looks like to get you into the ballpark. And as for sharpness, you'll be blown away when you get it sorted. I'm sure some of us would happily send you some 100% crop scans too to keep you motivated.
Posted 13 months ago.
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I know you've said that it's out of your price range at the moment, but just in case you've won with an Instant-Kiwi or something in the last couple of days, this looks like an ok deal;
www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Film-cameras/Ot...
Posted 12 months ago.
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I did wonder about that idea after seeing it on a YouTube video, got it down to have a go later.
Yeah I expect to make mistakes and am OK with that, but I am putting everything up here since others may get something out of this too.
I 100% agree about a good scanner helping to get better results. I expect to get a scanner for film, but not at the moment, its when I do the "opportunity cost" with my resources I realise I can move towards my goals faster if I am patient for now. I will try and make do with the one I have and so far it seems fine for my uses. I also intend to contact print at some stage, I almost bought the kit Mathew recommended on the other thread today. I had it in the shopping cart, $145US, but bulked at the shipping of $100US. Seeing that trademe auction was interesting, and painful, ha.
I would love it if at some stage you had the chance to do a test shot for me, I have flickr mailed you my postal address in case something works out.
Right so I have put up a few shots of what I am using for development now. I have these three trays from left to right of developer, stop and fixer. I made a wooden tray to fit them all in and triple lined it with plastic (weed mat, cheap as) The main bath holds around 2 full buckets, or about 20L. I fill it with water mixed to be around 20°C or just above. At the bottom shot you can see my aquarium heater ($35) and I have that on in the bath. It needs a little time to adjust to the temp before turning it on and then through tuning I found on this one I had to set it to about 24°C to maintain the 20°C on my thermometer ($5) placed down the other end. During processing I would give the bath a little paddle to keep it roughly circulating so the temp was homogenous. Through experimenting I found you have to have a bit of water to keep the temp stable but not so much that its thermal capacity overwhelmed the rating of the heating element. The chemicals seemed to all maintain the same temp using this system. I got fluctuation but only of about 19-20°C. I might be off temp wise using a cheap thermometer but I think this system keeps me constant.
I got a lot of good information from Tom Johnston on his YouTube video series. Scroll down to see a series of about 8 short videos, really fantastic information for someone like me starting out. I think he even has two videos on loading film holders.
www.youtube.com/user/ZoneIII
So back to camera building. I noticed that on the base I was starting to get scuff marks from sitting the camera down. To overcome this I bought some upholstery studs from Bunning’s and am using those as sacrificial standoffs. I have applied them to the camera and the tripod base. I am thinking I will just leave the tripod bas on all the time and just attach the plate when I need it. I drilled a hole first to avoid splitting the wood, esp so close to the edge. Turns out that the shaft also goes through my lap joint so acts as a pin too.
Another discovery I have made is that not all film holders are the same. I have two sorts now and so I had to modify the light trap seal on my back to accommodate the new ones with a shorter trough. I have been keeping the dark cloth over the end of the camera during picture taking anyway since I am not sure about light leaks on these holders while taking out the darkslide.
Not sure next, I think three things. I need to standardise on a film so I can learn. Not expensive and tolerant to a beginner, this shanghai stuff seem OK to me, and available locally somewhat. I have been thinking about positive and colour, might be better to wait on that, need to think it over. One other job is to work out a better way to attach to back so I can easily change it in the field. I don’t like using machine screw threads in wood, strips to easy. The last thing I am thinking about, other than some little bits and pieces is the shutter, I need one…?
Posted 12 months ago.
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Cut out another lens board for the second lens. They both fit the ring for the old lens but the brass lens is a bit loose in the black ones ring. The threads are similar but slightly different so I wanted each to have its own lens board. The 250mm turns out to be a great focal length for my camera dimensions, about compressed to 1/2 bellows for infinity and not fully extended out for about 1/2 a meter focus. Kinda reachy for building stuff though.
Been thinking about making the shutter today. Its an interesting problem. Got about 5 more sheets of film so going to use them this weekend. Two thing I am going to need to improve. Keeping better notes of the settings and how they were derived, to learn from, and I am going to try and be cleaner with processing. I got some 4x5 A4 storage sleeves. Scratches and dust are the two main problems I have, so just need to try and be more careful
Another mistake I made recently, so it seems pretty straight forward to roughly calc the bellows factor but... it is a -stop, not a +stop, oops. I went the wrong way and closed the aperture down instead of opening to compensate, won’t forget that for a while. Learning learning. I have been using the rule of thumb guide where you convert inches to f stops based on focal length. Seems to be OK when you do it right, as far as I can tell anyway.
Must be more methodical. Hope to get a building shot and a portrait shot this weekend, got 5 chances.
Originally posted 12 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 12 months ago.
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I have used up my last shots, no film left now. I have tried really hard to keep these clean but just cant do it so have resigned myself to photoshop help. I have noticed that I am getting stains, I think it is furing the drying after the wash and looks like it is on the edges of water drying areas. Could be that I need to filter the water or us distilled water, oh and that flo stuff.
I also have to learn to be patient while they dry, it is so tempting to pop them into the flatbed, but having done it I know it makes more work to clean up later. Anyway, here is my portrait shot I was planning, the building shot is drying still. This portrait has tilt and swing on the front.
iso100, f11, 2 seconds, 3 stop ND taped on front of lens, handheld darkslide shutter.
After doing a few shots in my development system I am thinking temperature wise it is pretty good, need to work on removing particles/dust and residue though. Currently I am using these times:
development 6 minutes
stop 15 sec
rapid fixer 8 minutes
wash 15 minutes
dry 24 hours hung with pegs (er... clothes pegs)
Which side to you scan, I am doing the emulsion side facing the scanning element, is that right? I am pretty happy with the scanning, considering I am not suing a proper film scanner. I would print this big, not sure the characteristics comes through small.
Originally posted 12 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 12 months ago.
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So here is my building/landscape, the other one didn’t really come out. This has swing for focal plane along bridge but shot at f128 so probably didn’t need it.
And lastly thought I would do a tool shot, I love this sort of work from others so gave it a go. swing along tool face and f9. Took about an hour to setup, but I really enjoyed it. This is the sort of thing I have this camera for (and portraits).
I have also been doing digital shots at the same time to compare, Canon 50D with 50mm f1.4. I would say the results are comparable, better in some way, worse in others, which is pretty amazing considering how I am scanning. I don’t think the two really compare straight though, its a different experience and I would choose the right one for the job I am doing. Mostly I would use my regular camera but there are some shots that I would choose this field camera for.
Right, got the film thing out of my system and can see the camera appears to work (also don’t have any film left) So back to the building. I think first I am going to make the back easier to get on an off in the field for switching between landscape and portrait.
Posted 12 months ago.
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I have been thinking about short term and long term goals related to this project. I like lists and wanted a place to pop down things as I think of them so here is what I have outstanding so far, I was supprised how much there is
Short term tasks to finish up 4x5 version (basic model, prototype):
- Find a way to attach backs so they can be fast to swap orientation
- Levels, add levels for getting camera setup on the tripod for horizontals and verticals
- finger grip on sliders, add human grips to the sliding frame to make easier to grip
- varnish touch ups, clean up any rough bits
- back clamps grip adjust, add some way to slide the back standard with one hand
- upright support bar on rear standard, add angled bards to rear like on front for extra support of rear
- carry method, glass protector, figure out some way to easily transport it and keep it safe from knocks
- shutter, make a shutter to get the camera portrait friendly
- investigate why hazy now and then, could be using 8x10 lens in 4x5 perhaps too much light/coverage, or maybe light leaks at small apertures, or perhaps vibration with cap on and off
- sort out better viewing, Fresnel lens and magnification
- make overlay and sort an easy way to attach or detach, e.g. guide lines
- sort out dark cloth, attaching to camera and decent size
Longer term tasks:
- Make film/glass holders so I don’t depend on external sourcing
- Investigate glass plate photography (liquid emulsion)
- digital back, allow my EOS camera to attach to back and do stich in 2D
- 5x7 back, my preferred size on this camera for contact printing,
- wide angle compression issue (recessed boards), figure out some way to get the lens and film plane closer together
- film tests, get my film/development consistent and find characteristics/limits of each
- plate for tripod or method to attach to tripod, like ali plate tapped, make it easier to share the one plate I have for my tripod
- trial contact printing, negative and digital sourcing
- trial platinum/palladium contact printing
- look into swirly bokeh, perhaps Petzval lens
…make 8x10 using everything learned to this point here
Posted 12 months ago.
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My little helper during some testing
Just out of curiosity I was experimenting with the 7x7 back on to look at the corners. All my lenses seemed optically pretty good, just darkening but no real distortion, even with movements. Shame because that was what I had hoped for after reading this thread
www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=25...
Posted 12 months ago.
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Reading Ansel Adams "The Camera" at the moment, he seems to know a few things about photography. Going to do "The Negative" next.
Bought some hydrogen peroxide today to help with the cyanotype contact printing... not sure why, was just recomended by someone, better get some instruction... google.
Posted 12 months ago.
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I am a bit in love with petzval swirly bokeh at the moment. Spent the evening playing around with lens elements to make doublets in that lens style. Didnt really work but fun anyway. The cheapest ones on ebay seem to be about $350+ US. Might have to wait on that one.
Posted 12 months ago.
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Here are a few refinements to my development that seems to have improved getting clean(er) negatives. I am now using a little hanger to hold individual sheets while being water washed. This has helped with scratches. I have the water pressure really low so not creating too much current, and below the surface to avoid aerating the water. I can just lift the frame in and out as I need. I will do something proper once I settle on a format but not convinced it will be 4x5 yet so don’t want to invest too much in infrastructure.
I have added as the final stage another chemical. It is going to be photoflo but that is a few weeks away, so in the meantime I am using some Tetenal wetting agent as a final wash, 1:400. Also I am using somewhat filtered water, kitchen filter, for the final wash. Below the bottle you will see a block of wood clamped to my bench. Hanging below it is a squeegee cut in half and the blades facing each other. I am using this to run over the surface of the wet negative, the fluid drips down to the container I have on the floor below. This is not maybe the best solution but seems to make a difference for getting the last bits of drips off. Some folks say you don’t need the squeegee stage so I should probably do some tests to find out. What do others do for drying?
After this stage I hang it up on a wire in the workshop to drip dry, pegged in the corner. I might touch the corner if a drip is developing to get it off and avoid evaporation residue. I can say that these couple of changes have made for much much cleaner negatives (could be better I know). Still contamination on the surface but is minor compared to before.
I am getting a few scratches still, I think it is from using my fixer tray that is too big so they move around a bit and during handling I have one scrape another.
My other big discovery is a surprise to me. I had not realised how well suited film and this style of camera are for long exposures. f128, plus low iso film, plus reciprocity have be getting shutter speeds in the minutes that I only dream about with my digital camera. Here is a shot where I played around with it. Oh and while doing this one I realise grain is good for textured things like rock, makes it really gritty rather than smooth, some subject this is a great benefit.
Originally posted 12 months ago.
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Tony and Rachel edited this topic 12 months ago.
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I would like to get a petzval portrait lens one day. If setup right they seem to give fantastic swirly bokeh. I read on a forum someone suggesting that the lens on old zenit cameras do it too… and what do you know, I have two lying around. It is the Helios 44, a 58mm f2, 35mm lens. I made a lens board for it and attached it to the camera, that’s when I realised the focus distance was really really small. I removed the bellows and the front frame is actually inside the back frame for focus. So since this was just testing and no capture I just made a cloth that clipped to the top and blocked light from the side once the front clamped into the back.
I saw some great examples of swirly bokeh, but you had to set it up right. You need a contrasty background and the subject is going to be relatively close to the camera. The picture I posted is not he best example I had but ran out of time. When I do a proper shot I will take more care setting it up. Anyway, you kind of have to throw the background out of focus and then the subject focus point is set, it’s a bit of a dance with ratios. This photo is just of the back of the ground glass to give an idea. The lens seems to need to have doublets and to be used out of its designed coverage.
Agh, looking at it now it is not as good as some other images I saw while testing… need to get a better one some day.
Posted 12 months ago.
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I have made a bag bellows for using with wider angle lenses and experimenting. This lets me get the standards really close together for short focal length distances. I still can focus a 35mm lens with my current 4x5 back but can onto my practice back. I will eventually need to make a back that goes inwards rather than back from the rear frame. The bag doesn’t look as cool as a bellows but seems functional. It also has made me come up with a better way to attaché the light blocking middle section to the frames. I now have some screws that “pin” the frame, you can see two on the side of the rear frame and there are four total on each end, the upper and lower part of the front. The bag has wooden frames in each end with mating holes for the screws. I would like to eventually using a screw with a finger grip on the end so that I don’t need any tools in the field.
So with the bag I noticed as you compress it, it does sometimes collapse in and need to be adjusted out of the light path. This prompted my second modification of making some quick releases for holding backs on. You can quickly flip off the back, push the bag out and then pop the back back on. The back in this shot is my practice one with a 7”x7” piece of glass, for playing around with. The main real use apart from this if to make it easier to swap portrait and landscape orientations in the field since it is a symmetrical rear frame. I think I will add a bit of foam on the inside of those metal fingers to add some compression when it is tightened up.
On a medium format note. I bought a little Agfa Billy I "folder" camera on trademe ( I was thinking about a holga but this 120 film camera was cheaper in teh end and a much better deal). So I should have known this but it didnt register till today, 120 film comes in the same brand and model as sheet film. So I am developing my sheet film like ilford fp4+ and also got 120 infp4+, should be able to use the same chemicals, cool. Someone gave me a little daylight developing unit so hope this weekend to play with that. Also someone is going to lend me a super graphic 4x5 to play with too.... oooh a shutter. This is going to be a good long weekend I think.
Posted 12 months ago.
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This deserves alot more attention that it has received. The quality of your workmanship is excellent
Posted 10 months ago.
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Hello friends,
my name is Marko Stamatovic, photographer from Serbia(www.stamatography.com www.markostamatovic.com ), and I am a big fan of large format camera and here are a few of my works.
My first camera:
www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1485665721575.57781.183...
my second camera:
And my third camera made according to some of yours instructions:
Hope you like it :)
Posted 5 months ago.
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Wow, fantastic. Love the details.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Welcome to the group, Marco. Hopefully you'll make the big trek down here one day and show off those gorgeous looking cameras while making some great images.
What's the update on your camera, Tony? I hope you got the chance to take some good looking images with it over the summer break.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Hey Chris, the camera had about 100 sheets of BW 4x5 through it and then I ran into two problems, time and money. I have put it aside for probably what could be a very long time. If I pick it up again it will be to get into large panorama format, I love that sort of picture but cant be bothered unless it is really big for contact printing.
Not sure I mentioned it on this thread, you might have seen it on other nz forums where I wrote about it, but I also completed phase two which was to make a cyanotype from a negative from this camera, which was my 2011 goal.
www.tonyphotography.co.nz/blog/2011/9/23/my-2011-photogra...
Actually the more I think about it I realise it is time that is my problem, guess everyone has the same issue though... need to think about what to prioritise for 2012
Posted 5 months ago.
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What a fantastic write-up, Tony!
I'd been mooching around trying to find ideas and inspiration when I found this page. Last night I finally settled on a baseboard, rather than monorail, but much simplified. What I settled on, design-wise, is remarkably similar to your solution. The only real difference is that I might add a fine focus screw to to rear standard.
At the same time I was trying to avoid cutting slots in metal - at least until I have the design finalised and I can then get all the parts laser cut. After reading Steve Mulligan's idea of required movements (rear tilt is the only essential), I decided to simplify the brackets to give me rear tilt and front tilt and swing. At least for now. Like you I see everything as a prototype.
I had the same problem with the bulk of the folded bellows and decided to go with the Ebony non-folding solution. Looking at their 45SU now I see that their baseplate is pretty much identical to what I had in mind bar the rack and pinion. A possible bellows solution might be to use acrylic-painted silk for the outer skin: salihonbashome.blogspot.com/2009/06/bellows-in-silk.html
Thanks for the kick up the backside. Now I might make some more progress.
Posted 5 months ago.
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Good job Leo, that bellows looks good.
Posted 4 months ago.
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My new panoramic beauty :)
Posted 2 months ago.
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20x12, nice one. Are you making film holders too?
Posted 2 months ago.
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