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[togr] 6:42am, 1 April 2006
I removed two shots by 4444u.a.e, as they weren't tagged, and it was impossible for me to determine from the comments whether they were of somebody else's cat or not.

As for shhexycorin's offering, I'm sorely tempted to remove it. While I'm sure the tag "not my cat" is truthful, it isn't "somebody else's cat", which is what this group is all about...
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
That's the spirit, togr! We have to rule this group with an iron fist if it's not to be overrun with pictures of people's own cats, like all the other cat groups.
♥ shhexy corin ♥ 13 years ago
What if that somebody else thought rabbits were cats?
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Already this group is raising some serious philosophical questions. What if the rabbit was cloned with cat genes? What if it was a rabbit-cat, like the elephant-man? (or, for that matter, Vivian's pig-ferret in The Young Ones?)

Discuss.
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
On second thoughts, don't.
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[togr] 13 years ago
It's easy to distinguish cats from rabbits, shhexy. Let them into the bird cage....

Iron fist? I didn't ban them or anything nasty like that, nor did I put evil slurs in the comments to their photos. As you said, we just don't want to be overrun! Given the number of additions just in two days, I'd say the danger is imminent.
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Sorry, I meant iron paw.
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[togr] 13 years ago
And I must say, with AnnabelB's latest offerings, she's pushing it ...

not my big cat
not my chat

and those are pictures of cat pictures. Meta-cat pictures, or cat meta-pictures? And deliberately mischievous tagging. Where will this end?
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
It would seem to me that both my postings comply with the statement implicit in the group tag not my cat

So, I'm confused. Very confused. They are not MY cats. They ARE cats. Where have I gone wrong?

Let me consider one of the images I so proudly contributed to this Flickr group which so helpfully keeps our favourite website safe for everyone.

I mean, I asked you nicely about an obligatory seabird which I discovered was appropriately tagged not my cat and your comment in reply seemed to offer fairly clear guidance:

"Well it's not your cat, I'll grant you that -- but is it somebody else's cat?"

So, from your statement, it would appear to me that that image wasn't allowed because, whilst you were in no doubt it was not MY cat, you were not convinced that it was SOMEBODY ELSE's cat.

Which leaves me in confusion about the image I posted in good faith which so clearly featured a black cat that wasn't mine:

chat

In the interests of clarity, and in the context of the above doubt which is so sadly cast on my posting, I herewith confirm that it is definitely and categorically somebody else's chat.
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[togr] 13 years ago
You must be mistaking me for dr. loopdeloop or the other way around. I'm afraid that questions posted on other people's pictures might not necessarily come to my attention.

As to the distinction between a cat and an image of a cat, I'll simply point you at this Wikipedia article.

As for your tags: are your images tagged with "not my cat" or not?
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
I love this group!
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
Well, that one's tagged with "not my chat" for a start. And in the interests of the great Flickr localisation debate, it would be discriminating to suggest that the use of the French language is unacceptable
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[togr] 13 years ago
You're of course free to start your own "ceci n'est pas mon chat" group any time you like! (Pardon my French).
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Das ist nicht meine Katze!
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
CLOUSEAU: Does your dog bite?
HOTEL CLERK: No.
CLOUSEAU (patting dog): Nice deuggie...
(dog bites his hand)
CLOUSEAU: I thought you said your dog did not bite!
HOTEL CLERK: That is not my dog.
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
But for a group that is compliant with the Flickr rules and seemingly so supportive of the Flickr debates, discussions and ideas, it would be strange that your suggested solution is a duplication of groups (leading to an infinitive number of solutions, perhaps even with potential server capacity implications) and, at the same time, is not very supportive of encouraging a Global Conversation across geographic and cultural boundaries.
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
I am NOT joining a That is not my dog group
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[togr] 13 years ago
Well, how am I to know if a tag in tagalog says "not my cat" in turkish?

And I thought "dog" was "chien" in French?

And notice that "not my cat" is the tag. The name of the group is "somebody else's cat". Your birds are not cats, regardless of how cute or obligatory they may otherwise be!

And your seafowl would fit a "not my dog" description just as well as they fit "not my cat", so I don't see what you're trying to argue with that last comment.
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
I agree. It all depends on how you say "not my cat". For example, "not my cat" (as in "well it's certainly not my cat!") implies the presence of a cat. On the other hand, "not my cat" (as in "that lowfat doormat is not my cat") does not necessarily. NB This may not be the case in Chinese. Colours may vary.
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Seafowl!
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
Mine are not birds. Mine are cats. Except they are not mine.

Robin's is a bird
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
I do not believe that italics show up in Flickr tags
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
What about Mynah Birds?
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Besides, I didn't use italics -- I just hit the keys harder.
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Oops, wrong thread.
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
Which thread did you think it was?
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
I thought it was the thread that holds together the very fabric of the universe.

Never mind, at least that hole in my sock won't be back in a hurry.
key lime pie yumyum 13 years ago
Why don't we have the tag the same name as the group like all the normal groups have?

If you put the kitty in Someone Else's Cat, simply tag it "Someone Else's cat"
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
~key lime pie: Now I think you are just causing trouble. I was trying to be diplomatic myself. But you just stormed in there like you owned the place and laid down some new rules. I'm not sure if it's helpful
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Oh, really KLP! You should know that in today's fast-paced world nobody has the time to sit around typing "Someone Else's Cat". Tags should be short and snappy, like "iCat" or "Xcat" ("I am a cat" and "Deceased cat" respectively).

Besides, "not my cat" is what the Big Flickr Boss said, so "not my cat" it shall be.
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
It's the rools
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
Sadly, I have to report that it has taken me 15 hours to react appropriately and respond to the Mynah Birds comment. How on earth did I miss that yesterday?
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[togr] 13 years ago
KLP (and dr. loplop): Read the memo again. It clearly specifies that the tag shalt be: not my cat
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
togr: What about the two missing pages of the memo? They might have said something else.

AnnabelB: 15 hours? That's almost as long as it took me to think of it in the first place.
♥ shhexy corin ♥ 13 years ago
What if my friend's rabbit was called Cat?
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
Well, if it were up to me, as long as it wasn't your Cat, I'd be ok. But the thing is that the tag doesn't allow for a capital C, and I have found to my distress that they're a bit strict about the tagging in here.
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
I'm all for testing the boundaries of non-cat ownership, even at the risk of committing a capital offence and being NIPSA'd by the Big Flickr Boss.

After all, we don't want to end up like the Top 20 Cats group, do we? All those contrived cat poses, it's worse than Harry Whittier Frees & co.
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[togr] 13 years ago
For those who desperately want to push shots without cats in them, I've created this new group.

Please not that there has to be a conspicuous absence of a cat (or cats) to apply.
squacco 13 years ago
What about feral cats? Where do they go? They may be 'not my cat' but they're definitely not 'somebody else's cat'. *sniff*
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Some would say that they are all God's creatures, so He could be the "somebody else" for the purposes of this group (subject to where you stand on the whole omnipresence issue, of course).
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
Like this sad example of a feral cat
WaterWindStars Posted 13 years ago. Edited by WaterWindStars (member) 13 years ago
Could someone please advise what about a cat that was once one's own and moved next door but comes back now and then and also hangs out in the back yard that is shared by both apartment buildings and comes to me when I say HEY BO-BO but goes home to sleep but still considers my apartment his turf except for the fact that by now my cats see him as SOMEBODY ELSE'S CAT? Now would this group agree with my cats or with Bo-Bo who still sees himself as my cat but who technically isn't, despite shared yardage. I would appreciate a ruling. Meanwhile I have joined NO CAT HERE NOW MOVE ON, which has brought sunshine to my days. I am trying hard to keep all my cats OUT OF THE FRAME so I can take a lot more NO CAT HERE NOW MOVE ON shots. P.S. I wish my last name were Katz so you could decide whether I could post someone else's pictures of me (not their Katz) in this group but it's not.
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
The ruling will, in the first instance, depend whether you actually are in possession of a photo or not
WaterWindStars 13 years ago
The photo(s) is (are) possessed. However, I go on to say, I possess photos of Bo-Bo whilst possessed by me and photos of Bo-Bo whilst otherwise possessed. Please rule again.
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Your cat is possessed? In that case it's definitely somebody else's cat -- to wit, the Hornèd One's.
WaterWindStars Posted 13 years ago. Edited by WaterWindStars (member) 13 years ago
I have another question. What if I took a photo of my own cat, passed it surreptitiously to a friend and asked the friend to sign up on flickr and to join the somebody else's cat group and to post my photo of my cat as if it were her photo of my cat? Who would actually get in trouble? (This is purely hypothetical.) (Do you think the fact that this hypothesis came into my mind unbidden is a sign that I am possessed by the Hornèd One?) (If so, again, who would actually get in trouble--me, the friend, or the Hornèd One? All of the above may in fact be hypothetical in addition to being manifestly parenthetical.)
becklectic Posted 13 years ago. Edited by becklectic (member) 13 years ago
I was under the impression that cats aren't really owned by anyone. Just because you say its yours doesn't make it yours.

Likewise, can you grant ownership of something you don't possess by saying that it must belong to someone else simply because you don't own it?

What would Marx have to say about this?
WaterWindStars 13 years ago
Marx would say: "The underpinnings of your group have just been resoundingly pulled out from under your fat bourgeois derrieres and your raison d'etre has been swallowed up by its antithesis."

What a revoltin' development!
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
manifestly parenthetical

More like manifestly paranoid I would say.
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[togr] 13 years ago
WaterWindStars Posted 13 years ago. Edited by WaterWindStars (member) 13 years ago
I recommend that the Administrator read the complete works of Plato and Hume in order to reach a decision on whether a shadow of a cat = an appearance of a cat = an image of a cat = a cat = tableness. In the meanwhile, best to be be on the safe side and evict.
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[togr] 13 years ago
ooh, stinging!

Unless it is only delaying tactics, of course... The complete works of Plato and Hume will be quite a mouthful, especially if they should be read in the original language.

In the meantime, reggaedori has a number of contributions, none of them tagged (but several having title or comments indicating that the cat in the picture is their own, and not somebody else's). I've evicted one, with a comment explaining why, but the comment was immediately deleted. I have half a mind to delete the rest without further ado, but I'm afraid that could be perceived as sheer bloody-mindedness. What are other people here thinking?

And before answering, please keep in mind that there are more than 4000 groups for pictures of cats already; this one is unique in being exclusively for pictures of somebody else's cat, and the only way to keep it that way (given that nobody reads the group description, never mind its name, before posting) is to evict those contributions that don't fit.
WaterWindStars Posted 13 years ago. Edited by WaterWindStars (member) 13 years ago
Having just completed my life's work of reading Plato & Hume in unoriginal and very boring language, I hereby add my half-miind to your half-mind to equal one single-minded vote to delete the rest without further ado. The immediate deletion of your comment is extremely rude, never mind bloody-minded, so I hereby move that you move on to delete delete delete to the very last smidgin of the unbefitting pictures.
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
If you're pressed for time, togr, here's my one paragraph synopsis of the complete works of Plato and Hume:

Plato sits in a cave watching a shadow puppet show, but is frustrated that he cannot see the actual puppets. Hume sits beside him and grumbles that he has just parted with a Scotch shilling for a shadow puppet show that, for all he knows, does not even exist.

Now, on to admin business. Last week I questioned reggaeadori about the status of his cats (notably the one described as "my cat", already evicted), but he deleted my comment and left the group. Therefore I would assume that all of his remaining cats are his own, and should be evicted. In fact, I'll do it right now!

Now, on to the matter of the shadow. This is how I see the basic argument, with a little assistance from Plato's puppets:

A photograph of a cat is an image created by some of the light reflected from a cat. A photograph of a cat's shadow is a negative image created by the absence of light which has all been reflected elsewhere or otherwise absorbed by a cat. Ergo, a photograph of the shadow of somebody else's cat is as much, if not more, a manifestation of somebody else's cat as a photograph of somebody else's cat and, as such, should be welcome in the group.

Of course, Hume would argue that no photograph -- whether of a cat, a cat's shadow, or anything else come to that -- necessarily proves the existence of a cat per se, or even of the photograph. Furthermore, that the pie you just bought him for lunch may not have existed, and even if it did, was probably not the right kind of pie; ergo, he couldn't possibly pay you back before Thursday, whatever that means.
WaterWindStars 13 years ago
Brilliant, dr loplop, brilliant!!!

Now, I await the extension of your reasoning to a table for without a table, there shall be nowhere to sit down to dinner and we shall have no pie! me-ow, me-ow, me-ow.
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[togr] 13 years ago
So sipping the Scotch is necessary (and presumably also sufficient) prerequisites for hobnobbing with Hume, Plato and their like? Sounds like I should study harder!

Thanks for your efforts, loplop! I can see that you were meant to be adminstrator of this group!
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
All this eviction stuff going on is beginning to sound suspiciously like Herding cats
WaterWindStars 13 years ago
So it appears but that doesn't mean it is so.
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[togr] 13 years ago
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Don't think we haven't noticed that this is your favourite thread, mr_togr!
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
Please tag it your favourite thread

(reaction: phew)
WaterWindStars Posted 13 years ago. Edited by WaterWindStars (member) 13 years ago
Those for hume it is not your favourite thread, please tag it not my (that is your) favourite thread . (Note parenthetically that British spelling is de rigoeuer.
admin
dr_loplop 13 years ago
Lemons on laptops and other people's kittens
The wrong kind of flapjacks and obligatory mittens
Mounds of pastrami and toroidal breads
These are a few of my favorite threads
squacco 13 years ago
What a lovely singing voice you have, dr_loplop.
WaterWindStars Posted 13 years ago. Edited by WaterWindStars (member) 13 years ago
With a hey, and a ho, and a hey-nonny-no
Today is someone's birthday that you chaps ought to know.
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dr_loplop Posted 13 years ago. Edited by dr_loplop (admin) 13 years ago
Most shallow man! Thou worms-meat, in respect of a good piece of flesh indeed! Learn of the wise, and perpend: civet is of a baser birth than tar, the very uncleanly flux of a cat. Mend the instance, shepherd.

edit: I forgot a link
WaterWindStars Posted 13 years ago. Edited by WaterWindStars (member) 13 years ago
Will you have bacon with your pancakes?
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
The bacon was on the side (to coin an American term), but out of shot on account of some people's sensibilities.
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
Whilst we're on the subject of Anglo-American terminology...

No comment
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
BTW, marvellous poem loplop (dr)

Not your usual Seuss-like contribution; here the words alone almost seem to echo around the surrounding hills.

I had a feeling there was one other thread. Bless you for trying.

Only joking
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
Meanwhile, could we all raise our voices together in song - C (fl)at major.

*all immediately start singing together, in a way that warms the cockles and uplifts the sole*

Happy birthday to you.
Happy birthday to you...
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[togr] 13 years ago
... tooooo youuuuuu!

Happy furry birthday!

Oh, and dr. loplop's verse goes on the group's front page!
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[togr] 13 years ago
In the meantime, to return to business, the images from this set are all in the pool. Dr. loplop has already requested that they be tagged a week ago, but nothing has happened. I move that we evict them all. Any objections?
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
A prize to anyone who can guess which one was mine, and which the Immortal Bard's.
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
(Bob Bonk -- now there's a name)
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
*thumbs down*
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
I vote we keep them, on account of our (hidden) aim of global domination
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[togr] 13 years ago
I have a girl friend (who's not a girlfriend) who will throw entire repertoires of the bard's insluts around, given the slightest provocation. She even bought fridge magnets to always have them at hand.

So, dr. loplop, I don't have to guess....
squacco 13 years ago


Please don't evict me. I've only got half a moustache.
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[togr] 13 years ago
And I certainly don't have a goal of global domination. I'm just trying to keep this little garden of mine tidy.
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[togr] 13 years ago
squacco: (madam, for some reason I was about to call you nancy) let me remind you of what I said earlier.
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[togr] 13 years ago
Oh, and if you actually look at the set we're discussing, you'll see that its description is, and I quote it in entirety:


mon chat !



Now, I know that there are people well versed and chaptered in French amongst the admins. Perhaps they can translate, so we're absolutely sure to get it right?
squacco Posted 13 years ago. Edited by squacco (member) 13 years ago


Mais j'adore c'ete groupe. C'est magnifique.
squacco 13 years ago


Alors, adieu mes amies. Je ne peu pas voir...
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AnnabelB 13 years ago
What was la question?
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
J'adore le chat d'or.
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[togr] 13 years ago
Nevermind, I'm removing them now.
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Morituri te salutant!

*solemnly takes off imaginary hat*
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[togr] 13 years ago
I thought that meant "we who are about to die salute you".

What did you mean to say?
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Err... "meow"?
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[togr] Posted 13 years ago. Edited by [togr] (admin) 13 years ago
I've tried tagging this thread "my favourite thread", but I've been unable to find any knobbly appendages to which it would be appropriate to attach the tag. Perhaps I can leave it here instead?

My favourite thread

In the meantime, our most recent addition to the pool is causing me some confusion. It appears that the picture was taken of a cat which was somebody else's, but between then and the picture being posted, the cat has become the photographer's as witnessed by the tag my cat now.

I feel that such dilemmatical borderline cases require a review by a larger selection of the administrative board. What say ye?

[edit: spelling]
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Well togged, tagr! Now on to the dilemmatic image. My understanding of the memo is that the definition of "cat", insofar as Flickr is concerned, is synonymous with "photograph of a cat".

Therefore, a photograph of somebody else's cat will remain such, regardless of subsequent events (including -- but not limited to -- adoption, death, vivisection, infection, intoxication, inappropriation, obligation, and abduction by meerkats).

In the interests of our members, it might be prudent to clarify the group's position on such matters by endorsing my cat now as an optional sanctioned tag.
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
I would suggest now my cat, except the "w" and "t" keys are quite close together, which could result in accidental mistagging. What do you think?
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[togr] 13 years ago
I think your philosophical interpretation and proposed resolution makes a lot of sense, but as boots appear to be of a philosophical persuation as well, perhaps we'll wait and hear what she says?

As for optional sanctioned tags, I think my cat now has been established as in common use already. Well, not too common yet, but more common than the competition.
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[togr] 13 years ago
I forgot to say: If the status of a given cat's own/other's-ness wasn't to be interpreted as decided at the instant of photography, then tracking the ownership of every cat in this pool could easily become an overwhelming task!
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
Also, assuming relationships between cats and their owners are not always black and white (black and white cats excepted), how would we classify a photograph of a cat (whether black and white or colour) taken while in the process of becoming someone's own cat?

I think this question really does call for the expertise of boots and her metaphysical muses.
admin
[togr] Posted 13 years ago. Edited by [togr] (admin) 13 years ago
That is uncanny, dr. loplip! I was thinking exactly the same thing, but I was afraid bringing such issues into what is manifestly a photo sharing site could cause the whole of the known universe to implode upon itself.

*looks around*

It seems to have survived. Now, isn't this problem fascinatingly similar to the topic of collapse of quantum wave functions, or transitions between allowed states?

Does anyone have a photo of Schrödinger's cat? As long as it isn't photographed by Schrödinger himself, it should fit exceedingly well in this pool, and this thread!

[edit: we now have a photo of the famous Schrödinger's cat!]
squacco Posted 13 years ago. Edited by squacco (member) 13 years ago
If I was Schrödinger's cat, this is how I would dress on my big day:

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AnnabelB 13 years ago
*solemnly takes off imaginary cat*
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dr_loplop 13 years ago
*solemnly proffers imaginary hat*
Sheila Steele 13 years ago
I am gathering together a herd of all my previous cats, future cats, cats I wish were mine, cats who wish they were mine, cats I served well and cats I utterly failed, dead cats and soon to be dead cats. I don't know what I am going to do with this herd.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Should I post photos of them here?
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