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Thanks for this! Still feel uncomfortable about mentioning Austin Mitchell's 'early-day motion'. I mean, does he really want people discussing his morning bowel movements? Mystifying! The things you have to do in a democracy.....Anyhow, i digress. Oh god, I need a cigarette :(((((((
Originally posted 51 months ago.
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Zach_ManchesterUK edited this topic 51 months ago.
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NO YOU DON'T! *hides all your ciggies!*
Posted 51 months ago.
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Done...
Posted 51 months ago.
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Much to my surprise, John Leech (Withington) replied in less than 10 minutes of me sending the email, that he'd signed the EDM yesterday.
Posted 51 months ago.
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jonwild [deleted] says:
done (Michael Meacher) - cheers for getting it all together for us Mark :-)
EDIT: acknowledgement received from constituency secretary inside 40mins, quite impressed.
Originally posted 51 months ago.
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jonwild edited this topic 51 months ago.
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Done - sent to Phil Woolas, Labour - MP for Oldham East and Saddleworth
Posted 51 months ago.
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done! Nigel Evans, Ribble Valley MP
Posted 51 months ago.
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Thanks Mark,
Sent to Ivan Lewis, Bury South.
www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/ivan_lewis/bury_south
Posted 51 months ago.
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Done - Jim Dobbin MP, Heywood & Middleton. Can I moan now?
Posted 51 months ago.
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Hmmmph... J Leech didn't reply to me - maybe because I complained vigorously a few months ago about being cold-called by his campaigners and asked for my phone number to be removed from their database...I'm probably on his blacklist of "constituents who can go stuff themselves" now...
Posted 51 months ago.
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I've written to my local MP John Leech and I reserve to right to moan and rant as much as I like now ;-)
I'm surprised not many has signed up yet given the amount of moaning I've seen (that has prompted Bitrot's excellent efforts).
Posted 51 months ago.
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Wow, great to hear so many of you have already had responses!
Not a peep yet from my MP (NI minister Paul Goggins) but I'll let you know. :¬)
In the meantime I got moved on in Euston station on Friday, albeit very politely, but as usual it was a security fellow with no idea what he was talking about. There are adverts on display inside the station which contain trademarks and I can't photograph them, apparently, because I might show my photos to their competitors. Pur-lease.
Originally posted 51 months ago.
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bitrot edited this topic 51 months ago.
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Well, as a soft southerner I have written to my local MP - that gorgeous, old Etonian (where's the barf-bag?) Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. It'll be interesting to see what a shadow cabinet minister says.
Posted 51 months ago.
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Excellent! You have to let us know if Boris replies!
With a bit of luck, you might get something like this... ;¬)
Posted 51 months ago.
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ANOTHER ACTION POINT: if you see the offending "Thousands of people take photographs" advert in your local rag try sending them a letter to raise some of these issues. You never know they might publish it (Huddersfield examiner published mine www.examiner.co.uk/views-and-blogs/reader-letters/2008/03... - spread the word!
Originally posted 51 months ago.
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nualabugeye edited this topic 51 months ago.
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Is this the best we can do? Sort it Mancunians - get yer fingers out!!!
Posted 51 months ago.
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Done. Hopefully Gordon Prentice MP will add his name to the motion.
Posted 51 months ago.
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Just printed out my letter. My MP's Andy Burnham and is the secretary of state for culture, media and sport, so will be interesting to hear his views on this.
Posted 51 months ago.
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Well done everyone - it's now got 46 signatures and rising!
Posted 51 months ago.
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I have just had a letter from the actual House of Commons, hand-delivered by uniformed messenger (ok, postman...). John Leech MP - actually "pp Wendy" who I assume is a trusted aide - has taken the time to inform me personally that he has signed the EDM, and will continue to "support this issue".
He'd bl**dy better - I'm watching him...
.
Posted 51 months ago.
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I got a positive response on Friday from my local MP Charlotte Atkins (not a Manchester MP) within a day of writing to her. Her name hasn't appeared on the list so far... but as today is PMQ's, I would hope that she is there and will sign the list at some point during the day.
If, on the other hand, it doesn't appear fairly soon then she can expect to get another email to find out the reason.
[Edit - Better spell her name right or she'd never do anything for me]
Originally posted 51 months ago.
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Mark & The Zebra edited this topic 51 months ago.
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well, its two weeks since I wrote to my MP (Kali Mountford Colne Valley) and still not received anything beyond the initial acknowledgement from her PA.
There's an interesting account of a recent stop and search for street photography on the Leeds group page and more specifically on Bennehboy's blog benneh.net/blog/index.php/2008/03/18/account-for-presence/
EDIT I'll have to take back some of the dissing I gave out earlier as a reply from Kali Mountford to my original letter regarding the "odd photographer" adverts was waiting on my doormat when I got home this evening. it reads;
"I have written to Rt Hon Jaqui Smith, Home Secretary on your behalf. As soon as I receive a reply I will be in touch again"
I'll just have to wait and see what happens!
Originally posted 51 months ago.
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nualabugeye edited this topic 51 months ago.
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i wrote to all three of our MP's here in flixton.
Posted 51 months ago.
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This link was provided by Digital Knave over at the Leeds group.
www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/british_police_force_v...
keep on writing ...
Posted 51 months ago.
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Typically useless response from my MP (Robert Goodwill) -
"I would not wish to sign the EDM and criticise our police force.....";
"I am not aware that this has led to any harassment of photographers"
Sent 1st class post in reply to an e-mail too: neither cost concious nor eco-friendly!
Plonker!
Posted 51 months ago.
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"I am not aware that this has led to any harassment of photographers"
Perhaps we should make him aware???
Posted 51 months ago.
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You're doing better than me - a week later and still no reply from my MP. I'll give him another week and then it's a follow-up letter with a copy going to the local Labour Party.
Posted 51 months ago.
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I've heard nothing either. :¬(
But still, 74 signatures now - that's 28 in 3 days. Keep going everyone!
Posted 51 months ago.
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i've heard nothing yet either, despite a stern but polite follow-up email - I suppose they'll be away now until after easter. If I here nothing next week, I may have to resort to my devastating "I'm sorry to be a pain..." email!!!
Posted 51 months ago.
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That's a ridiculous response, stagedoor - I would write back in no uncertain terms!
Posted 51 months ago.
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Even though jonwild has written to Michael Meacher as he has not signed it yet I have decided to write to him too. It can never harm anyone having two letters about this issue arrive at their door!
Posted 51 months ago.
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Just seen that My MP Nigel Evans signed though he didnt actually reply to my request..
Posted 51 months ago.
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Wrote to my MP and he has now signed it :)
Sorry if I have missed this in the thread - but what happens next after this EDM? How does it proceed to anything else?
Originally posted 51 months ago.
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Tom Holmes edited this topic 51 months ago.
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No idea! It just seemed a more constructive thing than sitting round here moaning about it. :¬)
Any parliamentary experts care to comment?
Posted 51 months ago.
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From
www.parliament.uk/about_commons/early_day_motions.cfm
"Early day motions (EDMs) are formal motions submitted for debate in the House of Commons. However, very few EDMs are actually debated. Instead, they are used for reasons such as publicising the views of individual MPs, drawing attention to specific events or campaigns, and demonstrating the extent of parliamentary support for a particular cause or point of view.
An MP can add their signature to an EDM to show their support. They can also submit amendments to an existing EDM. Although the majority of EDMs are never debated, the group of EDMs known as 'prayers' may be debated. Prayers are motions to overturn Statutory Instruments (laws made by Ministers under powers deriving from Acts of Parliament). Further information on EDM procedure can be found in the Commons Information Office Factsheet.
Posted 51 months ago.
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Result!
Following the unhelpful response to the first e-mail, i wrote again giving a selection of the many examples of harassment detailed on flickr. The second reply (by e-mail!) reads:-
I have had a look at the websites you mention. I have today tabled a written parliamentary question asking the Home Secretary what the official policy is in this area.
If you register with "theyworkforyou.com" under my name as your MP then you will get the answer as soon as I do.
The reason I wrote to you is that I sometimes do my post on the train and I can dictate a letter onto a tape when I am away from the computer. Sometimes it takes a little staff time to produce replies - if we have to do some research - The additional cost of postage is not great and a letter is more likely to be kept. We also find that when writing to Government departments of companies a letter with the H of C letterhead tends to get things moving whereas emails can be accidentally discarded.
Do you have any cases of this in North Yorkshire? If so I can write to the Chief Constable.
Best wishes
Robert
There was someone who was harassed on York Station recently. Can anyone point me in his direction? Or anyone else have any examples of "officialdom" in North Yorkshire?
Posted 51 months ago.
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Nice work Stagedoor! - and I'm glad Robert Goodwill has taken this issue seriously when presented with recent evidence.
Posted 51 months ago.
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Result! Well done. Here's a link to his TheyWorkForYou page. Glad to see he's supporting the EDMs that really matter... ;¬)
I got a reply from my MP, Northern Ireland minister Paul Goggins. He explained that government ministers are unable to sign EDMs, but he's written to Home Office Minister Vernon Coaker asking for his comments, and will forward them on when they arrive.
Well done and thanks to everyone who's doing something to put this issue in our MPs minds. :¬)
Posted 51 months ago.
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Tom Brake, LibDem MP for Carshalton & Wallington, and LibDem spokesman on London, Home Affairs and the Olympics, writes:
Thank you for your email.
Coincidentally I may have an opportunity tomorrow to raise this matter in a debate about policing in London
I am impressed yet again with his response, and also by the fact that he's writing to me at 22:45!
Meanwhile I have yet to receive the reply from the MP for the area where I spend the other half of my life, Manchester Central. I'll keep you posted.
Posted 51 months ago.
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What are the chances of this happening?
Should we start getting seriously worried?
Who actually composed the text?
www.flickr.com/photos/nieljohn/2364335599/
www.flickr.com/photos/12494104@N00/2365284558/
Compare and contrast!
Originally posted 51 months ago.
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stagedoor edited this topic 51 months ago.
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Strange. It's not just a standard "thank you, I'll think about it", they're obviously written in reply to your specific letters about this EDM. Both Tories, but from opposite ends of England. Perhaps there's a lowly office junior at the party HQ who deals with constituents' letters that MPs are not really interested in...
> There was someone who was harassed on York Station recently. Can anyone point me in his direction?
It was Zach. The second link is now private, so you should mail him.
www.flickr.com/photos/zach_manchester/2053818941/
www.flickr.com/photos/zach_manchester/2054067263/
Posted 51 months ago.
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Seems it's fairly common for a "Parliamentary Researcher / Assistant" to write replies about EDMs:
"I know for a fact how these replies are written. The Parliamentary Researcher / Assistant will write the response, the MP takes a quick shufty, and then signs it (perhaps with a couple of alterations for grammar etc., in which case it is re-typed and given the all-clear). "
www.order-order.com/2006/07/david-borrow-mp-moronic-liar....
And a researcher can work for more than one MP:
www.shepwedd.co.uk/knowledge/article/827-1840/a-day-in-th...
Posted 51 months ago.
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Well, the man's as good as his word: www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2008-03-27a.351.1&...
Shame it didn't elicit a response, though. Still, now on 99 signatures (Tom Brake himself hasn't yet been registered as having signed, mind you) and rising...
Posted 51 months ago.
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Just to let you know that the blonde bimbo (AKA Boris Johnson) didn't actually respond. I had this from one of his serfs:
"Thank you for drawing this to my attention."
So today I sent this:
"I assume that since you have not signed the EDM you therefore approve of the criminalisation of amateur photographers.
Or are you just too busy with your mayoral campaign to bother about such trivialities?"
From a personal poimt of view I would love Boris to be the next London mayor as he would have to resign as my MP. But as a Londoner by birth I wouldn't wish the idiot on my worst enemy!
Posted 51 months ago.
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ooo 99 signatures on this now :) thats good!
Posted 51 months ago.
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Thanks for organising this bitrot. Wrote to Michael Meacher today and also included in my email this clip as an example which shows two community officers being very rude to someone with a video camera in London.
current.com/items/88856223_you_can_t_picture_this
Posted 51 months ago.
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Nice one!
There's already a lively discussion about that video going on over here. :¬)
Posted 51 months ago.
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Cheers for the link bitrot.
It does seem to have created a bit of a stir.
Posted 51 months ago.
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Got a postcard from Andy Burnham acknowledging my letter. Nothing more though, yet.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Posted 50 months ago.
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Written to beverly hughes.
awaiting a response
Posted 50 months ago.
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Aren't we all, Matt, aren't we all...?
www.vimeo.com/878390
;¬)
Posted 50 months ago.
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Done.
What is the world coming to? It's coming to an end let me tell you.
Have any of you watched 'An inconvenient truth' by Al Gore? Have you noticed how hard it is to find in the shops?...
Posted 50 months ago.
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I've dropped a line to Phil Woolas (Oldham East and Saddleworth) asking him to support the EDM. I'll report back if I hear anything.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Finally received a reply from my MP (Kali Mountford) regarding the EDM.
"Thank you for your email asking me to sign EDM 1155. I do not, as a matter of prnciple, sign EDMs as I believe them to be "Lazy Politics". They are, in essence, a petition, and like all petitions can be ignored if it suits.
I should say, at this stage, that I actually disagree with the EDM. Whilst I totally support and would encourage people being able to participate in photography I do believe that people are sometimes sensitive about having their photographs taken for all sorts of reasons. This could be because of children or that they are perhaps in a sensitive family situation. I believe that photographers should be sensitive to other peoples' sensitivity and should only take photos with permission.
I am still waiting for a reply from Jacqui Smith MP, Home Secretary, to your initial enquiry about photography. As soon as I receive it I will write again."
My keyboard will soon be buzzing with a reply (including some links to websites detailing photographer harassment). I can only guess what sort of reply I'll get from the Home Office.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Good luck. I wrote to him 4 weeks ago and haven't heard anything back yet. I'm going to write again this weekend and tell him I'm cc'ing his local Labour party. We'll see if that gets the ball rolling...
Originally posted 50 months ago.
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markrellison edited this topic 50 months ago.
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My letter from my local MP John Leech dated 7th April:
"Thank you for recent email regarding EDM 1155 and the right to enjoy photography in public places.
I am pleased to inform you that I have signed EDM 1155 as requested and I fully support the message it contains. Photography is clearly a perfectly legitimate and enjoyable pastime, and should not be subject to unjustified suspicion or prohibition where this is not warranted. The abuse that you document is quite unacceptable. I am therefore very happy to support this EDM."
PP Signature.
Sorry a bit long post but a good start. Don't know what's the process after this?
Posted 50 months ago.
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As it happens I received another LETTER from Kali Mountford this morning
"Please find enclosed a copy of the reply I have received this morning from Rt Hon Tony McNulty MP as the Minister responsible for this area within the Home Office.
I will now write to the Chief Constable to see what his policy is on the subject.
As soon as I receive a reply I will be in touch again"
And this is the reply from Tony McNulty
"Thank you for your letter of 18 March to the Home Secretary on behalf of (this bit tippexed out, obviously three or four names deleted) about photography in public places. I am replying as the Minister responsible for this policy area.
There is no legal restriction on photography in public places, and there is no presumption of privacy for individuals in a public place.
it is for the Chief Constable to ensure that Officers and Police Community Support Officers are acting appropriately with regards to photography in public places, and any queries regarding thi should be addressed to the Chief Constable.
However, decisions may be made locally to restrict photography, for example to protect children. Any questions on such local decisions should be addressed to the force concerned."
As promised above I will be sending her another email later on today.
Posted 50 months ago.
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However, decisions may be made locally to restrict photography, for example to protect children. Any questions on such local decisions should be addressed to the force concerned."
So - the police are now authorised to make up their own rules, are they? "Decisions may be made locally"? By who - and with what force in law? Sounds like another "because I feel like it" scenario, to me...
Originally posted 50 months ago.
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1hr photo edited this topic 50 months ago.
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By-Laws can be made on local level, by local authorities, which could have an effect on photography, i.e. in parks. These can be reviewed and taken out of force by parliament if need be!
Posted 50 months ago.
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may I draw your attention to this - freedom on the streets of Middlesbrough...
www.flickr.com/photos/happyaslarry/2420960125/
and a (shhhh, so they do have their uses!) video
www.flickr.com/photos/photodrift/2422740769/
Posted 50 months ago.
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I just received exactly the same reply (word for word) from Vernon Coaker, on behalf of Tony McNulty.
Perhaps the next step would be to write to the (Acting) Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police to raise the issue there.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Just searched for Robert Goodwill on www.theyworkforyou.com/ and found this reply to his written question:
"There is no Home Office policy on members of the public or press photographers taking photographs of police officers in public places."
Shame he limited his question to photos of the police, but it's still a useful response to have in mind if anyone's challenged on this in future.
Posted 50 months ago.
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I don't think writing to GMP will change anything, other than to get a letter back saying something along the lines of -
"Officers are advised to act if they see anything that seams suspicious and could lead to the pubic being put in danger.
GMP does support the right of photographers to take photographs on the streets of Manchester in a lawful manner" -
or summit like that!
Originally posted 50 months ago.
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...the truth is hidden... edited this topic 50 months ago.
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You may be right, but nothing ventured nothing gained... :¬)
Posted 50 months ago.
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Thanks Bitrot - I had just found it myself. Goodwill has not signed the EDM yet :(
Posted 50 months ago.
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Being discussed on iPM on radio 4 as I type!
Originally posted 50 months ago.
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lizjones112 edited this topic 50 months ago.
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Yay Bitrot! Just heard him on Radio 4, hopefully someone was able to record this too.
Originally posted 50 months ago.
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Air Adam edited this topic 50 months ago.
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Cheers Adam! It wasn't quite as cringeworthy as I expected in the end, probably because they edited out about 95% of the interview! The full interview may surface in time on their website - I'll let you know.
In the meantime, anyone who missed the programme can catch it on the podcast.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Horah!
I have a reply from the one and only bev hughes. However she says:
"Early Day Motions [beceause they are] reserved for backbench Members of Parliment"
she said she as written to the home secretary in person and will contact me if she gets a reply.
Matt.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Glad I heard of this thread and group through Photographers Rights on Yahoogroups.
Have just 'encouraged' my MP to sign Mitchell's EDM but knowing things of old doubt it'll happen, I remain mug half filled though about, see what happens.
Pete/West Midlands
aobetc@yahoo.co.uk
Posted 50 months ago.
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Amateur Photographer mag article updating on this issue
www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/British_government_due...
Posted 50 months ago.
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Posted 49 months ago.
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Again, that "However, decisions may be made locally to restrict photography, for example to protect children."
It's the same response that nualabugeye (and bitrot) got above, even with names tip-exed out again! Can't they even type in the new name and print a new copy?!
Posted 49 months ago.
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No, hugovk, I think Joseph has just tippexed out his own address, to protect his privacy, rather than the Home Office being lazy...
Posted 49 months ago.
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Thanks Martin,
yes, you are correct, though only this web version has been changed.
Erased with 'rubber' on my Serif PhotoPlus X2.
Not really of interest other than my location, which is clear enough.
All else is verbatim, the original document being easier to understand than some quote taken out of context.
Posted 49 months ago.
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A third of all MPs have now signed the EDM:
www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/photography_campaign_b...
Well done everyone! Although Amateur Photographer don't mention this group by name exactly, you can tell from their tone that it was all down to us.
Posted 47 months ago.
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I finally received a reply from my MP, Andy Burnham, recently.
It was the standard 'as a government minister, I am unable to sign EDM's, but will write to the Home Secretary' reply.
Though after reading this
www.bjphoto.co.uk/public/showPage.html?page=801977
I'm very doubtful anything useful will come of this. Sigh.
It's the "decisions may be made locally to restrict photography" remark that really disappoints me. Obviously, Chief Constables need to have certain freedoms in instructing their officers how to act. But what if some over-zealous CC decided to restrict all types of unsanctioned photography at certain events or in certain areas of a city. There'd be nothing any of us could do about it.
Maybe I'm being over-cynical but "decisions may be made locally" to me conjures up images of PC's (or even PCSO's - shudder) on the ground making such decision as and when they feel.
Originally posted 47 months ago.
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Manchester Monkey edited this topic 47 months ago.
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Oh gosh forgot to say, I got a reply from my MP who 'does not get involved with EDM's' apparently. I decided she would only tell me to piss off again in writing if I wrote back :/
Posted 47 months ago.
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Xander, who's your MP?
Posted 47 months ago.
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Nice. The woodentops making up the law as they go along.
Who voted for them?
Posted 47 months ago.
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@ Xander write back to her constituency office and make it clear you "do not get involved" for voting for MP's who do not represent you to the best of their ability.
There's an election on the horizon .......
Originally posted 47 months ago.
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stagedoor edited this topic 47 months ago.
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Take a look at my new post with regards to a very unpleasant encounter in Birmingham.
www.flickr.com/groups/manchesteruk/discuss/72157606564972...
Posted 46 months ago.
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Manchester, UK /
Discuss
NO YOU DON'T! *hides all your ciggies!*
Done...
Hmmmph... J Leech didn't reply to me - maybe because I complained vigorously a few months ago about being cold-called by his campaigners and asked for my phone number to be removed from their database...I'm probably on his blacklist of "constituents who can go stuff themselves" now...
Excellent! You have to let us know if Boris replies!
You're doing better than me - a week later and still no reply from my MP. I'll give him another week and then it's a follow-up letter with a copy going to the local Labour Party.
I've heard nothing either. :¬(
No idea! It just seemed a more constructive thing than sitting round here moaning about it. :¬)
Nice one!
Aren't we all, Matt, aren't we all...?
Good luck. I wrote to him 4 weeks ago and haven't heard anything back yet. I'm going to write again this weekend and tell him I'm cc'ing his local Labour party. We'll see if that gets the ball rolling...
However, decisions may be made locally to restrict photography, for example to protect children. Any questions on such local decisions should be addressed to the force concerned."
By-Laws can be made on local level, by local authorities, which could have an effect on photography, i.e. in parks. These can be reviewed and taken out of force by parliament if need be!
You may be right, but nothing ventured nothing gained... :¬)
Cheers Adam! It wasn't quite as cringeworthy as I expected in the end, probably because they edited out about 95% of the interview! The full interview may surface in time on their website - I'll let you know.
Nice. The woodentops making up the law as they go along. 
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