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Samphibian [deleted] says:
photos can turn out ok with flash but its always better to try to shoot without it, to keep the look and feel of the event and lighting and to irritate the performers as little as possible. at the moment the only lens i have is a shocking kit lens that won't go wide enough for me to do anything without using the flash. i see other people using it all the time, specially when using point and shoot cameras.
if you really need to use it try and use it as sparingly as possible and wait for the shots you want to come up rather than shooting as much as possible. if you can ask the bands if they mind beforehand i'm sure they'll appreciate it though and probably won't have too much of a problem with it
Posted 49 months ago.
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Samphibian [deleted] says:
just looked at your live band shots and realised you've shot some quite big bands before, any band i've shot kinda pales in comparison :)
Posted 49 months ago.
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Ask the band if they are OK with flash.
To my experience the less famous don't mind about flash the most famous start creating problem.
More important, if you got fast lenses and light is ok, no-flash pics come out always better!
ciao
liveon35mm
Posted 49 months ago.
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Sweet! Thanks so much for both of your help. I appreciate it a whole lot!! I think I'll test out flash and no flash tonight and talk to the band also. Thanks again!
Posted 49 months ago.
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Well i used to use the pop us flash on my Nikon D80 because it was a dingy place to photograph and i could of sworn 2 bands lead singers looked really annoyed with me. AND i could of sworn one stuck their finger up to me, not sure if i have that shot or if i deleted it =/
But yeah go with no flash, i'm learning not to use flash and it's done my pictures well. Probably a tad blurry on the Club Blub ones as my shutter speed is 15-20 .. !! But it's still better than using pop up flash.
Tell us when you got last nights bands pictures up !!
Posted 49 months ago.
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I have done quite a bit of concert photos lately that have been arranged and I always ask about flash. None of the bands really care.
That being said, I never use the on camera flash since most of the time it does more harm than good. Since I am getting paid and have access to the venues well in advance, I set up my own lights.
I will usually do two Vivitars (fired by Pocket Wizards) on either side of the stage at different heights. Once I have the lights set up I then use my gels to try and match the overhead lights. Sometimes it's red and green, sometimes purple. The last set I did was was very light yellows and oranges.
Doing this really helps out. If I have lights set up I can then shoot at anywhere from 1/50th to 1/250th of a second at f5.6 at ISO 100 creating nice sharp images with virtually no noise. Without lights I wind up shooting 1/30th - 1/50th, f2.8, ISO 800-1600.
Another trick for concert photos is to meter the light in the center right off the people. Usually (with concert overhead lighting) the stage, back ground and sometimes the drummer are dark but the people in front are well lit...that is great. You don't need to get photos of the stage, gear and whatever crappy back drop the venue has. So if you are metering don't worry about getting everything, meter of the people and shoot away.
Hope that helps.
Originally posted 49 months ago.
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Isaac Viel edited this topic 49 months ago.
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You are welcome Alisha,
I forgot to say, if you can bounce your flash on a clear surface, that gives much better results
ciao
Vale
liveon35mm
Posted 49 months ago.
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I'm very new to this sort of photography. I tend to use a mixture. Some using flash Canon 430Z. Others without. Bands tend to like a mixture if they want to use them for promotional purposes. Nearly all my music images here at Flickr are taken using flash. Might put a few without up and see what reactions I get.
Posted 49 months ago.
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Danni Davies [deleted] says:
I've only ever photographed one gig and I didn't use a flash.. I personally prefer not to use a flash and only use it when I most certainly have to.
Posted 49 months ago.
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Refrain at alla costs from using the on-camera flash. Use a proper flash gun off camera. With some practice, you'll certainly obtain satisfying and "non-flash looking" photos :
Posted 49 months ago.
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No flash!!!
Posted 49 months ago.
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Flash!!!
Posted 49 months ago.
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no on camera/direct flash. its annoying getting blinded straight on and looks like crap. bounce some off camera flash if the band is okay with it.
Posted 49 months ago.
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No flash!! Personally I really don't like it...
Posted 49 months ago.
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I have to use flash as sometimes with lively bands that are moving around you need it (see the Lovvers shots on my profile!) - If you use it subtley you can get some cool shots that still capture the atmosphere :)
Obviously with bigger gigs you're not allowed to use flash so that makes your mind up for you...
Posted 49 months ago.
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Setting aside pro- and anti-flash personal tastes, the fact that musicians would be bothered and/or blinded by flash is a legend. Even now that I use a Nikon D3 that produces superbly clean photos at ISO 3,200, so I rarely need to use a flash, I always see droves of fans blazing away at bands for the duration with their camera phones and P&Ss, and you know what ? Even though they could get a sunburn from constant flash discharges, the guys on stage don't seem to mind... In fact, they rather seem to enjoy the popularity !
:o)))
Posted 49 months ago.
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@Robert: I've had band members specifically tell me that they hate flash and we're from glad to amazed that I did my work without flash.
I also ran across an article on the web on pianist Kieth Jarret getting irate that he requested no flash and photogs shooting flash.
It's not a "legend" that there are musicians that are bothered or otherwise, do not like having flash go off.
That musicians may not have mind the P&S's could just as well be 1) taking it in stride thinking there was no pt. trying to fight the crowd or 2) the flashed of P&S's may not be as bothersome/powerful as flash guns, etc.
As is, my personal experience and readings indicate it is not a legend.
Posted 49 months ago.
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Keith Jarret hates photography and photographers of any sorts, not only flash!
liveon35mm
Posted 49 months ago.
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It is important to learn how to capture the live performances, without using the flash, because there are many times, that there is a "no flash rule", and you should not get caught off guard.
There are groups here on "Flickr" that really look down their noses and center you out, for "cheating" and using any kind of flash...It has happened to me, and I have since, become more adept at figuring out, how to use the available light, and am still learning. It is much more rewarding when you do see your image, in the ambiance, which it was created in.
There have been some instances, when the stage has been very challenging, and in those instances, I indulge myself in the encore, with the on camera flash...but only when desperate.
There are other occasions, where flash is not allowed, like in churches, recitals, and ceremonies, so it is good sense, to learn to use available light, and the different elements of your camera.
If you want to be taken seriously as an entertainment photographer, it is preferable not to use flash.
Posted 49 months ago.
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JacobSaunders.co.uk [deleted] says:
The answer you're looking for couldn't possibly be any more simple:
Flash if you need to, don't if you don't need to.
Posted 49 months ago.
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Rock Photo Star : (wow)
I don't know if you call the US President Bush George, but anyway, my first name is Dominique, not Robert.
As is, my personal experience and readings indicate it is not a legend
Yes, you will find some exceptions and some (self-styled) stars who... well, take exception to flash. I was talking about the immense majority of musicians.
lifefreezer : (brrr)
It is important to learn how to capture the live performances, without using the flash, because there are many times, that there is a "no flash rule", and you should not get caught off guard.
Very true. The opposite is also true, as (1) there are even more times when the live performances could not be captured at all without flash, because the venues are so poorly lit, and (2) flash is just another tool in the toolbox that a photographer should learn how to use... and that means, first and foremost, NEVER, EVER use the on-camera flash, unless in life-or-death situations (and even then).
Of course, like you find the rare artist who is aggressively against the use of flash, you will also find anti-flash fundamentalists (some of them on Flickr, too). It is up to you to decide whether you think theirs is a good philosophy.
Finally, according to Joe McNally, "available light" means "any f...ing light that's available !", and that includes your flash guns. ;o))
Jacob : You are quite right indeed.
Posted 49 months ago.
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Finally, according to Joe McNally, "available light" means "any f...ing light that's available !", and that includes your flash guns. ;o))
I love this!
Posted 49 months ago.
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Look at the differences
Posted 49 months ago.
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using flash or not depends of many things....
if its a big venue they will have light to ambient the shows... a small venua kinda garage it will very dificult work with the ambiental light...
if you gonna use your flash experiment bounce it to the ceiling, to the floor, to the guy next to you with a whit tshirt. if you already use direct flash try to dessaturate to B/W may it look a little bit better anyway...
Im yous a musician who loves photography....this is my humble oppinion sorry for the english is no my first langauge
with flash bounce to the ceiling in small lact of light venue
with ambiental light of a big venue
Posted 49 months ago.
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No Flash! Well, unless you're a newspaper guy or not really after any art.
LePendu!!!!
Originally posted 49 months ago.
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steveroake edited this topic 49 months ago.
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steveroake: How can you say that a concert photo taken with a flash is not art? That seems incredibly narrow minded to me.
A great photo is a great photo, regardless of the type of equipment used to take the photo (film/digital, flash/no-flash, camera type, lens choice, etc, etc, etc...)
Posted 49 months ago.
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JacobSaunders.co.uk [deleted] says:
Yeah I'm kinda confused about that too, some of the greatest concert snappers ever have used flash.
Posted 49 months ago.
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IT really depend s alot on the lighting too. If they are already under a sportlight, they can't see sh@# anyway and a flash isn't gonna hurt.
But in most venues where the lighting is more subtle - flash would not be cool.
Posted 49 months ago.
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i go to a lot of hardcore/metal shows half of the venues don't even have decent lightning so in that case you need flash. If your not pictures are going to turn out like shit and look dark as hell ! Obviously venues that have professional ligthning no flash needed, but smaller venues with poor ligthning its needed in my opinion. And none of the bands that i have shot have never complained about flash.
Posted 49 months ago.
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I use flash where possible. however if your shooting famous bands they usually wont let you. also if its in a big venue usually you don't need flash. and if your shooting in a big venue/famous bands you have to go in the press pit and you get the first 2 or 3 songs and that's it.
if you shoot small/unknown bands in pubs and in small venues flash is often essensal and it can add lots of energy and atmosphere to the pics. it will only do this if you us it correctly. I would advise trying out second curtain sync if you camera/flash allows you to do this.
Posted 49 months ago.
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flash just if you need to. anyway, it's perfect for hardcore/punk stuff in small venues.
Posted 49 months ago.
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It really depends on the situation and how the band feels about it.
Heres some advice someone once gave me.
"You can always shoot high ISO and then use a program like Neat Image to reduce noise later. Or if you have a dslr pick up a fast 50mm prime. You can usually get an F/1.8 for around $100."
Posted 49 months ago.
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yes, you can certainly get the shot at f/1.8 but don't expect anything too sharp (just the focus point).
Posted 49 months ago.
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oh wow! I didn't realize a lot of people would reply...thanks everyone for your opinions.
I'm really bummed because I wasn't able to take pictures for the band that night...when I went into the venue I didn't see at this sign that said no in's and out's. So when I first walked into the venue....I couldn't leave and go get my camera and come back. That sucked! But there's always next time.
I usually take pictures at Slim's in San Francisco, CA and that's a pretty small place...but the only one band that has had metal railings was Puddle of Mud. And yes, I know they are up there in the music world. And that's the only time I have notice that photographers wee allowed to take pictures. Other wise....I've notice that the bands I have shot before don't care or mind because other people in the crowd use flash with their point and shoot cameras. I'm just hoping that since I finally have gotten my wonderful new Canon camera, that the flash won't bug the musicians as much as the point and shoots.
Again thanks so much for all your opinions. I'll for sure take all your thoughts and consider what I'll do with my camera in the future.
Originally posted 49 months ago.
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Alisha Jones edited this topic 49 months ago.
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Seriously, why do we keep having the discussion.
The 'only if you need it attitude' irks me as well. It's a creative tool, which you can choose to use when the time is right (unless restrictions say otherwise).
Here's some nice flash pictures.
Obviously, these are just snapshots, not 'art'. ;-)
Posted 49 months ago.
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I use flash only if the lighting is poor, I cant manual focus either with the 50mm 1.8 if the lighting is that bad.
here is some taken with flash
Posted 49 months ago.
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general rule:
no flash when lighting is good
flash when its a flasgun, and the lighting is bad
Posted 49 months ago.
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JacobSaunders.co.uk [deleted] says:
I've used flash in really good light, you can get some good effects and make the subject stand out from the background to become a more prominent element in the photo. It's really up to the photographer, nobody else. You can get good quality photos with or without flash, I prefer not to use flash but I've started using it a lot more recently, there's a time and a place for both, I'm not some photography fascist who goes around saying "don't ever use flash or I'll murder you". If we all conform to a set of (ridiculous) rules then we're not really artists at all.
Posted 49 months ago.
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One local venue I go to doesn't use a lighting rig (work that one out) so I have very little choice to use flash.
On the other hand I can still get some nice images without the rig, once you get used to where the existing light is going.
I've taken to putting an 8 inch snoot on to my flash to direct the light a little bit and not flood the whole room. It's just a case of experimentation, one night is never the same as the next.
Posted 49 months ago.
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Well I shoot at a venue that has no lighting rig...
You have more choice than you think...
Posted 49 months ago.
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Never use the on-camera flash, buy an external unit and depending on your preference an extension cable.
Posted 49 months ago.
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@rich_s_wright: built-in flash is evil.... unless it's triggering other flashes then it's not so bad :)
Posted 49 months ago.
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@Robert: I call bullsh*t. First you say it's a "legend" then you say "many musicians" ............ neither time.
the wow is the balls you got to be making such extreme / absolute implying declarations (legend, immense majority) ... as if you have some authoritative basis and conduct/research on this.
Note I never say that many, let alone "immense majority," musicians don't like flash, etc. I only contest that my direct experience and reading is that it is not simply "legend."
Again, I NEVER say that most or any number of musicians don't like flash. No way have I done any kind of methodological study or survey or heard from such numbers, that I could feel anywhere near comfortable, as presenting my word as the authoritative word on what musicians things.
YET YOU HAVE? Did you do some scientific study or have read one? Presumably you've asked musicians or heard from musicians. You really think you've heard from enough to make these absolute declarations.
rock photo star is half joke and half subversive turning around the idea of a rock star not being the musician. ... the person that has some chip and lack of humility is you and your repeated declarations of first dismissing resistance to flash altogether and then telling the group.
Moreover, the person . Again, read what I said, I am simply sayng it's not a "legend" which I find an extremely derisive and belitting dismissal and again question your reasonable basis for making such a belittling dismissal. That's all my position was for you to cop an attitude and question me.
P.S. The tone and response is due to my perception of a patronizing and belittling tone of your remarks, including the "wow." I apologize that I mistook your name. I have no problem saying so, it was not intentional to be disrespectful or belittling to you. I'm sensing yours is intentional. That's uncalled for.
And if you are this responsible, reasonable person, than just explain where do you get the factual basis/experience that you feel is substantial enough for you to make your broad, absolutist assertions, such as "immense majority."
Originally posted 49 months ago.
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Rock Photo Star edited this topic 49 months ago.
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Jase...good point! Though multi flash setups are tricky at gigs the probably the only good use of inbuilt I can think of.
Posted 49 months ago.
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Rock Photo Star :
Oh, man, you've got a serious problem interacting with other human beings !
If I were a true-to-form, hardcore American guy, chances are I'd simply tell you to "quit whining" and dismiss you so, but as I am French, I feel obliged to express more compassion, and to suggest that, if you were to take things in a slightly less rigorous, more relaxed and laid-back manner, you would considerably augment your understanding of life in general, considerably expand the enjoyment you get from it, and considerably lessen your chances of experiencing a stress-induced heart attack at an early age... ;o)
I hope four your sake, my friend, that you are not so insecure in real life as you seem to be. If you think you are, then maybe seeking qualified assistance would be a wise move.
As to "where [I] get the factual basis/experience", I suggest you go to basically any kind of rock concert (it's a fun experience, you'll see), from the local band in the local pub or small town venue to the U2-sized stadium mega-concerts, and watch what the fans do to them musicians with their flash-equipped P&Ss and flash-equipped camera phones : THOUSANDS of blazes is what they ALL get. Every time, all the time, and as I said, strange as it seems, they seem to enjoy the popularity ! ;o)
I'm sure (truly, I know for a fact) that budding rock groups with very small following and dozen-or-so fan clubs would just LOVE to have hundreds more waving flash guns at 'em every time they strap on the ole guitar...
And as a closing remark, did you notice that, except for pointing out one exception, no one disagreed with what I said ? That should tell you something, too.
Posted 49 months ago.
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JacobSaunders.co.uk [deleted] says:
I'm not sure I like where this thread is going, there's obviously just been some misunderstanding, I for one don't care who can have the last word, or who can act like a child best. I think it should be left at that, no?
Posted 49 months ago.
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Wonderful idea, as far as I'm concerned. I was quite surprised by his attack (and in a Flickrmail, too) and I'd be very happy if it could end here.
Posted 49 months ago.
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