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I haven't used this, but I do have a similar reel from Patterson themselves, and a baby could load it... simple!
Posted 11 months ago.
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Do Paterson make the reel for 4x5? What is the name of it?
Posted 11 months ago.
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Me bad, I just checked and my 4x5 tank is a JOBO 2521, similar to the one mentioned in the thread, 6 sheets, but more compact.
Posted 11 months ago.
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For that price you could probably find a HP Combi plan tank instead.
Posted 11 months ago.
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Yeah I think the price is bit too steep for a piece of plastic. I guess 90% of the price is in the development of the system.
I haven't used it but I think there is a design flaw. Two horizontal disks in the middle will restrict chemical circulation. Drill few holes in them will improve the flows.
Just my observation ..
Posted 11 months ago.
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Yikes, that looks pretty complicated to use in darkness.
Not sure what you're looking to do but as I do only B&W and mostly stand development, I use either a cylindrical tank or a Yankee Agitank. The latter holds 10 sheets, I think, but as it's not closed, you really can't agitate it, just gently rock it back and forth. A rubber seal or a lid with a stopper would be a Good Thing.
Posted 11 months ago.
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I'm not familiar with stand development at all. I've only ever used straightforward roll development with 120 and 35mm. I'm actually kinda lost when it comes to developing the sheet film. Seems like everyone has their own way of doing it. I may just have to get my hands dirty and experiment.
Posted 11 months ago.
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Elizabeth, really, besides the niggling issues I've had with the taco method, it is EASIER than roll film development because there is hardly any fiddling with getting the sheet into the tank in darkness. Nothing to spool up. Just make the taco shape, put the band around it to retain the taco shape, and slip it into the tank with the other sheets.
Posted 11 months ago.
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I do mine in four roll stainless steel daylight tanks. Only do a single sheet at a time (per tank I should say). It's time cosuming when I've shot a whole box. As I only have two large tanks.
I have a daylight 4x5 tank but so far all I've managed was to mess up 10 shots all at once due to uneven development.
Posted 11 months ago.
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Stand development is a great way to get started with sheet film and you may never see any need to move past it.
Posted 11 months ago.
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I would like to try stand development but then I'm way impatient to see the results :)
Posted 11 months ago.
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There are 1,001 ways to fit some number of 4x5 sheets into various containers. There are reels to fit into Paterson and Jobo tanks. There's tray development. There's the big square tanks that you can only agitate sideways or you cause a small planet to go off orbit.
The real killer to sheet film development (4x5 or otherwise) is the amount of solution required. My Yankee tank holds 12 sheets, but it requires a half gallon of solution. That's a lot of developer.
The Paterson 3-reel tank only requires one liter for full coverage, so to me, this thing seems like a pretty good idea.
I bet I could build one, in fact.
Posted 11 months ago.
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>The real killer to sheet film development (4x5 or otherwise) is the amount of solution required. My Yankee tank holds 12 sheets, but it requires a half gallon of solution. That's a lot of developer.
Which is where stand development at 1:100 makes a lot of sense: 16cc of Rodinal isn't expensive at all.
Posted 11 months ago.
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I don't mind the developer amount in the Yankee. But as I mentioned, even development (or effective agitation) is the real obstacle. Great idea, but I'm too torn to try again.
Posted 11 months ago.
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I think the main issue with most 4x5 tanks (at least by my reckoning) is the agitation issue. Can someone give me a rundown on stand development instead? How does it work and how long do you need to let it stew? Do you rise and fix the same way (sans agitation)?
I have about 1.5 gallons of D-76 fresh and a gallon of Kodafix. I also have a liter of Diafine and Ilford Rapid Fixer.
Space is a real issue for me. My "darkroom" is a small guest bathroom. Tray development is going to be a challenge spacewise for me.
Originally posted 11 months ago.
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Elizabeth_C. edited this topic 11 months ago.
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I don't mind the side-to-side agitation in the Yankee box, although it does get a little messy and it's not my ideal way to spend 10 minutes. So more accurately said, solution volume and/or agitation angst is the top woe for sheet film developing.
The thing with stand development is that it's a particular technique that imparts a particular look to the film (increased contrast, mostly). If you don't want the look of stand development, then you're back to the issue of agitation. It's a little difficult to apply the zone system to stand developing, too.
To answer your question, Elizabeth, my understanding is that stand development doesn't work well with all developers and D-76/ID-11 are among the ones that most folks say not to use. The idea behind it is you let a very dilute pyro-based developer sit for something along the lines of an hour or so with a little agitation to start with, and little or none for the next 59 minutes. This causes the developer in contact with the highlight areas of the negative (the dense areas) to become exhausted and stop developing while the developer in the shadow areas continues to act on the silver.
Posted 11 months ago.
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I think I've just gotten myself completely confused. My 4x5 should be here tomorrow, and I'd like to get some sheet film ordered soon so I can test it out, but given the price of the negs, I really want to avoid any development screwups if possible.
Posted 11 months ago.
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Elizabeth, four sheets of 4x5 fit in the same 4-reel Unicolor tank that I use to develop my 35mm. I use the same amount of fluid for all my developing since I want even development for whatever is in the tank. I fill the entire tank wth 1l solutions.
As for agitation, I use a Unicolor machine roller. It agitates it for me. I just operate it the same way I do for rollfilm. Just FYI.
Posted 11 months ago.
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, here's the lowdown on stand development. I use Rodinal (I'm not aware of any other developers that work this way) or one of the clone products. Drop in the Rodinal group for examples, if you like.
As the name implies, you let the film stand in the tank for 1-2 hours in a very dilute solution (1:100) with no agitation. I will generally do a drain and fill of the tank at the one hour mark, as there are anecdotal reports that some of the chemistry can stratify or move around in ways we don't want, allowing uneven development. Draining, shaking it around, and dumping it back in seems to resolve any issues of separation. But that's all there is to it. Drain the spent developer, stop with water (as dilute as it was, that should be enough), fix and wash as usual, and you're done.
So it works well for contraptions like the Agitank (I don't think I can get reliable agitation in that thing without slopping stuff everywhere and that seems like a bad idea) as well a daylight tank with the film gently folded (the taco method).
The benefits of Rodinal/stand development are ease of use, simplicity. and reproducibility. Plus it's easy. Did I mention that?
It really doesn't have anything to do with a "look" except as provided by the combination of film and developer. I don't think this is specific for pyro-based developers, though they do share high dilutions: Rodinal is based on the active ingredient in Tylenol (acetaminophen).
I suppose a rigorous examination and testing regime would allow one to use a zone system approach: you need to determine your Normal development result and method and from there work out +/-1.
There are lengthy threads in the Rodinal group on stand, as well as examples. Some of the stuff is really quite amazing, especially given the simplicity and reliability of the process.
Originally posted 11 months ago.
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your mistakes are your style edited this topic 11 months ago.
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If you only want to develop 1 sheet at a time, there is this. Mine uses 6 ounces to fill the tank per sheet. I do full inversion agitation with it.
Posted 11 months ago.
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But as I mentioned, even development (or effective agitation) is the real obstacle
I agree: I think the Agitank may be the least appropriately named product in history as consistent agitation is pretty much impossible with the &^%$)# thing.
Posted 11 months ago.
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Thanks guys! I"m going to look into the options and give a few a try. I really appreciate the tolderance of my extremely newb questions! :)
Posted 11 months ago.
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We all asked them, or wish we had been able to… report back with your successes, won't you?
Posted 11 months ago.
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I actually got one a couple weeks ago. Its fantastic! MUCH better than the Yankee tank, taco method, or tray processing all of which I had some major disasters with.
Pros of the Mod Photographic reel:
1) You can do six sheets at a time. I feel like its the perfect amount as I usually want to do either four or six sheets at a time after shooting for the day. The Yankee tank was way too big, single sheet at a time is too time consuming, and the taco method was a bit crammed with four sheets.
2) You can do actual inversions. You can invert the tank just like you do with 35mm and MF. Though I would suggest doing it somewhat gently, no problems yet, but not reason to risk it.
3) Integrates into a system I already own. Only a plus if you already own the tank.
Cons:
1) One Liter capacity is a good deal of liquid. I either use chemicals that aren't oneshots (color chemicals, Diafine, D76 Stock) or using oneshots that are very cheap to use at high dilutions (HC-110 dilution F, Rodinal 1:100).
2) Expensive for one little plastic reel. No getting around it, its expensive, but its by far the best tool I've found for me in getting good results quickly and easily with 4x5.
3) its a bit bulky for small changing bags. Its not impossible, but its a pain to get six sheets loaded into a tank in a small to medium sized changing bag. I would suggest either using a large bag or if possible doing it tabletop in a darkroom. Same as the Yankee tank.
For me its been a godsend, and I've shot and processed more 4x5 in the few weeks that I've had it than in almost the entire year before that I had my 4x5. Wether it will work for you is really up to your personal preferences though.
Originally posted 11 months ago.
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macberns edited this topic 11 months ago.
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Absolutely :)
Posted 11 months ago.
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I use Jobo 2509n reels when I have a volume of film to process after a studio model session (usually 36 sheets or more) - 12 sheets at a time. But I far prefer the MOD reels for general use with more usual quantities.
The Jopb uses 3 litres of chemistry (Diafine) which is bloody heavy to invert. The Patterson volume of 1200ml is child's play by comparison.
PLUS - the Patterson tanks are far more leak-proof.
Cheers,
Walter
Posted 11 months ago.
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At that price you might be able to just find yourself a jobo drum with a 6 sheet reel...
Posted 11 months ago.
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The ideal for small batch processing is the Jobo 3010 Expert drum. It will process up to 10 sheets of 4x5, and everyone who uses them, that I've seen, raves about the quality of their results. Chemical quantity is 210ml to 1000ml (1 liter).
The downside is price and availability. And you need to roll it (constantly) for agitation, so you can use a counter-top, a passive roller base or an active one, or a processing machine, such as the CPA(2) or the CPP(2), especially with lift-arms. Both are supposed to give excellent results. /..
Posted 11 months ago.
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The need for reliable agitation makes me think this device would have a market?
It's the Ag-o-Matic, designed and built by a Flickr member.
Originally posted 11 months ago.
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your mistakes are your style edited this topic 11 months ago.
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Hi folks,
Just wanted to update the thread. I got the device in a week or so ago and it seems to work very well. I've developed 4 sheets in batches of 2.
I had to be very gentle with agitation because the sheets do slip out of their slots if you're not careful, but gentle inversion and a twist seem to work well.
Thank you for all your help.
Posted 10 months ago.
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"I got the device in a week or so ago..."
WHAT device?
This thread has seen a half-dozen devices discussed.
Originally posted 10 months ago.
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AtlantaTerry edited this topic 10 months ago.
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The MOD insert for the Paterson tank.
Posted 10 months ago.
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