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Hypothetical Photocritical Excursions
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I’m going to suggest something that is based on the assumption that most people would like to have a few fellow photographers with whom they can share their work openly and honestly. No holds barred kind of stuff. If you think I’m wrong, this might not be for you.
As far as photo criticism is concerned, flickr is like a slum alleyway at night. You rarely find anything of genuine use and people can lob whatever debris they want at you from the shadows. Maybe you think that’s a cynical view, and maybe it is, but that’s the way I feel. Though many comments are well-intentioned, I can count the number of good tips I’ve been given on flickr on one hand. Why? Here’s my opinion. Not many people look at a photo for very long before they respond. If you don’t like it, you simply ignore it. If you like it, you say “hey mate, good job!” and then walk away. If you’re in one of those well-meaning groups that require you to comment before posting, there’s a chance that you’re so focused on plowing through the comments in order to get your picture up that you end up saying generic, technical things like “nice tones” or “the highlights are blown” or maybe even the dreaded “…is great but, _______ bugs me.” I tend to do all of these things.
Long story short, I want to hammer down a different approach. I have some ideas I’d like to run by you. Since many of us are near a subway stop and don’t have to travel far, what I’d like to do is have a group of photographers get together, imbibe copious amounts of alcohol (optional), and comment freely, face-to-red face, on each others’ work.
My Ideas:
-Monthly or bi-monthly meetings at a bar, restaurant, house, or studio space.
-Send the organizer of the event three (preferably unpublished) photos before the meetup.
-The organizer will then have smallish prints made of each, number them randomly, and bring them to the meeting shuffled with no names on them.
-We’ll sit at a large table eating/drinking/whatever and pass the photos around three at a time.
-Each person will have five minutes to look at each set, which they will then pass to the person on their left.
-When a person sees a photo that they like, they write down the number of the photo. Each person can choose only a select number of photos (depending on how big the group is).
-When everyone’s seen everything, each person must say which photos they liked and why they liked them.
-The liked ones will be published in a flickr group (or perhaps discussion thread of one of the bigger Korea groups already in existence).
-The favorite may win some kind of nominal prize or online recognition. Nothing too special. Interaction and appreciation over competition.
-After we do the photo circle, individual members can ask for further critique of their images.
-Perhaps we can pass it around a second time and be more critical, offer suggestions, etc.
These ideas came from an activity in which I participated in the past. It rocked viciously hard. However, it was haiku and not photos. Photography is a large genre. For instance, I can appreciate macro shots of insects or beautifully well-planned strobist photos, but I’m not particularly interested in shots like this. We’d have to narrow the scope a bit. I say let the group decide what is acceptable. Obviously we won’t narrow it to something like “black and white ironic analogue street photography” or other wildness. I just don’t want to have to look at gritty black and white film semi-nude modeling with one eye and large format mountaintop panoramas with the other. It could be a little jarring.
What’s the goal? To create a community that not only shoots, but critiques and improves together, to expand horizons through dialogue, and to have a good time doing it.
What do you think? Good idea or no? I’d be happy to hear your comments and suggestions.
Posted at 11:40PM, 10 January 2012 PDT
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Great Idea, but everyone lives everywhere. Make it an iPad App, with video and mabe it could go some where.
Coach
Posted 5 months ago.
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LightTower [deleted] says:
Man you are really funny, there are thousands of local groups everywhere on this planet still doing something similar! Let me tell you, the internet is the worst place for serious criticism, and the technical reasons are well known. Fact is that most people would never justify their opinions, for nobody. If you want to compete with somebody, do it in an international contest, there are enough possibilities!
Posted 4 months ago.
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Korea's a small country, and I'm willing to wager that some of the people in Korea Images live here. I agree with LightsOfOrion. The internet is not the place to look for criticism that will help you grow as a photographer. There's a place for serious groups outside of the writhing mass of self-promotion that is flickr.
Posted 4 months ago.
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LightTower [deleted] says:
@devinjoness
How I wrote before, your idea is not new, no matter how big a country is, it depends always to the society, and by my experience is this society everywhere the same in its habits. Even not in reality would somebody justify his or her opinion, especially not when there are commercial interests part of the game!
Posted 4 months ago.
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I'm lost.
Posted 4 months ago.
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@LightsOfOrion.
That's a bit pessimistic, isn't it? You don't think people are more honest and open in public with people that they know, understand, and respect than with the mass of anonymous folks on flickr? Maybe I don't understand because what you're saying is off base.
I never claimed my idea to be new. I'd be an ignoramus if I didn't know that stuff like this already exists. Let me tell you that I am no fool, and that I don't find my idea to be "really funny". There are some kinks that can and will be worked out, sure, but if commercialism trumps honesty and a desire to grow simultaneously in all cases, and something like this isn't even worth attempting, well then I guess it's a pretty bleak world. You go live in that world if you want. I'll not be joining you.
Posted 4 months ago.
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Keep shooting...you'll get there.....
Posted 4 months ago.
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Get where? What are you referring to?
Posted 4 months ago.
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LightTower [deleted] says:
@devinjoness
Digiboy told you, you are going to nowhere!
You are an incorrigibly fantast, respect and honesty is by far not the only criteria, your concept fails as a whole because most of the amateur photographers are not experienced enough to teach you something. And gently people would never tell you that 99,99% of your pictures are pixel crap!!! (Sometimes I really wonder that this people isn't ashamed to load this kind of crap up, everywhere in the net.)
Originally posted 4 months ago.
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LightTower edited this topic 4 months ago.
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Or we could upload nothing at all like you.
Posted 4 months ago.
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It is a good idea based on the goals you have stated at the end of the posting, ie to "create a community....and have a good time doing it". Isn't that what living is all about?
It matters not whether you get a load of amateurs or a stuck up group of people who get paid for their photographs and think they are "professionals". Actually they are all artists, whether good or bad, as photography is not a profession. I do have a Profession, and coincidentally, also a Trade, and although I get paid for my photographic work, that doesn't mean my comments will have any bearing on whether a photo is technically correct or not.
Similarily, it doesn't matter if someones photos are "pixel crap" as long as you enjoy producing them. There are many examples of artworks that some people call beautiful or amazing whilst others believe are total crap. Here in Australia is one such example, a painting called Blue Poles by Jackson Pollock.
So, back to the point, even if you get only a couple of people, and I have no doubt that you will get some if you persist, just do it and have fun.
Posted 4 months ago.
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It is a good idea based on the goals you have stated at the end of the posting, ie to "create a community....and have a good time doing it". Isn't that what living is all about?
It matters not whether you get a load of amateurs or a stuck up group of people who get paid for their photographs and think they are "professionals". Actually they are all artists, whether good or bad, as photography is not a profession. I do have a Profession, and coincidentally, also a Trade, and although I get paid for my photographic work, that doesn't mean my comments will have any bearing on whether a photo is technically correct or not.
Similarily, it doesn't matter if someones photos are "pixel crap" as long as you enjoy producing them. There are many examples of artworks that some people call beautiful or amazing whilst others believe are total crap. Here in Australia is one such example, a painting called Blue Poles by Jackson Pollock.
So, back to the point, if you get only a couple of people, and I have no doubt that you will, just do it and have fun.
PS. Devinjoness, "the mundane is what you make it" is an excellent philosophy. Keep it up, you have some interesting photographs, Cheers
Posted 4 months ago.
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@ LightsofOrion.
As I said this idea might not be for everyone. Rather than sitting in your ivory tower which, from what I can tell, is built on nothing, and hurling down insults at ideas you disagree with, you should be wishing well and giving constructive comments and criticism. But, I'd hate to try to reason with you, so I'd recommend that you:
1. Read the First Paragraph.
2. Learn to use big words properly, not as an attempt to spray your asinine sludge with a coat of flowery language.
3. Go troll someone else.
@ Grooved Ware People
Thanks for your kind words. More than anything, I want to create a community based on friendship and respect. It's a pity you're in Australia. If you ever find yourself back in Korea, stop on by. Drinks on me!
Posted 4 months ago.
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I will be back in Korea in late 2013, and probably back in Daejeon as I do like the place and have many friends there both Korean and Waeguk. My wife and I were there from 05 to mid 08. Good luck with your project.
Posted 4 months ago.
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Hi Devin. I am a late comer to this thread. Who the heck is LightsofOrion or LightTower anyway? No photostream, so sounds like someone of no consequence in your suggested community anyway. Not sure why he/she cares. I would be open to joining such a group. I have been an active member of FIS and less so of SPC for some time, but am always looking for photography-related social activities, especially with like-minded people who care about improving their work. One potential difficulty might be, as you mentioned, the wide variety of genres. Some genres and some photographers' works I have very little to say about, and I am sure there are many who have nothing to say about mine. Could be an interesting project though.
Posted 2 months ago.
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