I agree. I hate him. It's not the artwork I hate particularly (I mean, I do hate it, but not particularly) - it's more the whole pseudo-radical stance and the way he is an icon of London 'cool' in a lot of people's eyes. Bono probably likes Banksy, doesn't he? And Apple would like to sponsor him, I'd imagine. That's what I hate about him.

What dubmill said really. I can't add to that.

There was a sad inevitablility about how it happened though.

It was amusing to begin with, but then at some point he became a graffiti version of James Blunt.

He does more than grafitti, you know. I happen to think his gallery work is very clever indeed. So much so, one is hanging in my lounge.

What dubmill said . . . . and it's the flickrisation of Banksy that's a real yawn for me, the sense that the zillionth identical pic of some of his urban graffiti has been posted as some kind of 'look at me being in touch with the urban cool zeitgeist' statement . . . meme becomes me-too becomes too-too-much.

Over done. Too many in reality and far far far too many on flickr.

Well, I became Admin of Banksy - the complete works when the creator, who had asked me to join, left. (Did you know that if a sole admin leaves a group, the longest standing member becomes automatically promoted to admin?)

Suggestions as to what to do with the group on a postcard, please... (I don't care, and I agree with Ben and Barbara about how ubiquitous and therefore boring he has become as a street artiste. But, by the same token, I really like Grebo's Kate print).

I like him, regardless of whether you think his political commentary is immature or you just don't like the way his work looks, you've got to have some respect for someone with the balls to go and spraypaint the "security walls" surrounding the gaza strip. I would locate a pic and link it but i'm using a french keyboard and everything takes me so bloody long

"you've got to have some respect for someone with the balls to go and spraypaint the "security walls" surrounding the gaza strip"

Nope, sorry, see under 'immature political commentary'.

Steve, you could always give your group a makeover whilst adhering to the theme of spraypainting walls and call it 'Dulux - the complete chart' - people could post different shades of magnolia with ever more improbable names.

Oh good. It's not just me! Thanks folks.
"a graffiti version of James Blunt" Well said!

dubmill has it when he says "Bono probably likes Banksy" - just google the two names together and see what you come up with in the Guardian and Independent (I would provide a link if I was competent enough).

Perhaps in homage to those MAKEBONOHISTORY T-shirts, we should change the GWL icon to MAKEBANKSYHISTORY

A lot of what people are criticising is the reaction to Banksy and not the work itself. He can't really be held to account for being worn as a badge of cool by some middle class artsy types... how is he supposed to sidestep that... and how do you know that it's true anyway. (Maybe those middle class artsy types _actually_ just like him?)

Criticising him because you imagine Apple might want to sponsor him offers no criticism at all unless you explain what it denotes about his work. Name an artist or musician you do like. Apple would probably want to sponsor them too.

The idea that every photo of a Banksy is taken as some kind of statement of cool is a judgement made by the viewer and not necessarily shared by the photographer. Maybe someone took a picture of a Banksy because they thought it was interesting. Maybe they didn't think it was a display of their in-touch-with-urban-coolness at all... there's no way of knowing from looking at the photograph, you're just letting your prejudices tell you what they were striving for. I don't think my family know who Banksy is or what 'a Banksy' is. If my Mum was visiting London and saw one she might take a photo of it because, y'know, the maid looks like she's lifted the wall up to sweep the dirt under it and that's kind of funny if you're seeing it for the first time. I don't think that would be my Mum posturing as some kind of cool urban type. But you'd see the photo and jump to that conclusion for why? Probably because you once liked it and now you're a bit over it.

For me Banksy suffers from the Nick Hornby effect. Hornby has been so successful he's spawned numerous inferior imimtators. It dilutes the pool and makes the 'genre' feel less valued as a whole. But every time I read Nick Hornby I realise anew how bloody good he is. And he was doing it before the imitators.

Personally I'd reached a sense of ennui with Banksy, I suspect for that reason. It seemed a bit passe. Too much similar stuff out there. But the Paris Hilton thing reinvigorated it for me and the Disneyland stunt at around the same time seems to be entirely valid also.

I'm not defending him to the hilt... there's lots of his stuff that does little for me. But a lot of this comment is really criticism of his audience and not the work.

If Bono liking something means that it's shit, we'll probably all have to throw away huge amounts of our record collections.

Not great, but why the hate? Lots of poseurs would rate much higher on my own personal rubbish scale.

And the first few times I saw something from him, I felt connected to my own 14 years old self. It's not like it happens so often these days!

Dave, there is no place for balanced, well thought out analysis like this on the internet. The purpose of the internet is to abuse people you are never likely meet, in terms you would never use in person, from the safe anonimity of your bedroom. 'Reasonable' people just spoil it for everyone else...

Interesting thread this alot of which can be explained by the old cliche that familiarity breeds contempt. Banksy started out as subversive and anti establishment, however when your gallery work etc are selling for thousands that claim has no validity, cos like it or not that makes you part of the system (the same one you are supposed to be kicking against) The mainstream will always absorb the radical and challenging eventually see punk rock , acid house etc etc. The challenge for artists is to stay true to their beliefs and push the boundaries further always staying one step ahead. To that extent I also really liked the Paris Hilton thing. I dont really love or loathe him..and there is alot of truth in Dave Gormans arguments too...The fact is once the media and moneymen move in it loses its underground appeal but if that didnt happen there would be no incentive for the next person coming along to create something truly
radical and subsersive which aint so bad....

this thread is very interesting to read, i like that some people like him and others loath him but there is also something that smells alot like cool lurking in some of these posts,. ive never really understood why something that's cool one moment is not the next, it almost highlihghts that the problem lies in the labeler not the labled.

i think banksy has come to his end in they eyes of cutting edge just like mr blunt (although i dont think poor ol' jamie was ever musical wonder at its peak)
i just think that when it comes to being cool a savvy londoner knows when to jump ship, those who say 'i hate him' proably said 'i love him' 3 years ago
i like banksy, i think for no other reason then he makes me smile, i like how he's promted a whole load of people to get out there and cover the streets in art.
i think what we can all agree on though is that the people who use him to establish there own 'cool factor' should be rounded up under the pretence of a banksy gallery show and gased :)

I never had any intention to discuss Banksy. He might be a nice chap. I think his "pictures" (pieces,tags, whatever they are called) demonstrate an adolescent politcal idealogy executed with pedestrian skill. Furthermore, (and I don't want to come across all Daily Mail here) it's graffiti regardless of the skill, wit or notoriety of the "artist." Would you be pleased to find a Banksy sprayed across the front of your house?

The Paris Hilton thing: that'd be where he mocks some bimbo whose fame outstrips her talent, yes? Do I need to press this point?

"i like how he's promted a whole load of people to get out there and cover the streets in art. "
Art it aint. It's vandalism. Shame on you, mundaylaura.

: ) shame on me indeed : )
i think graffiti is art, and many high profile artists have used the medium of street art to step away from the confines of the gallery. vandalism suggests the only reason something was done was to be distructive, i dont think thats the case with lots of street artists, and im also pretty sure that if i woke up in the morning to find a well executed act of vandalism on the front of my house i'd keep it there as long as it wasnt anything offensive.

Comment:

www.flickr.com/groups/theantibanksy/

Comment:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banksy

In 2004 the Space Hijackers gave out spoof vouchers outside a Banksy exhibition to highlight the artist's arguably hypocritical use of anti-capitalist and protest imagery while doing work for corporations and art galleries.

" Well executed" is a subjective opinion. I quite like the plain brick on the front of my house, and I'd be pretty pissed off to find that someone had decided to paint over it, whether it was Banksy, Hockney or Da Vinci. I do understand your point mundaylaura, and there is street art that is brilliant. But I don't think that great street art fosters greater street art. Rather it encourages kids to scawl on phone boxes, and a lack of respect for public and private property. And that is vandalism
No offence to you, though.

some of Banksy is good, some less so. The gallery-based stuff is by far the weakest. It is derivative, and poorly executed. Things like his recent work on the wall in Palestine; however, I find much more interesting.

On the whole I like Banksy and Banksy-alikes. I also like how different places deal with them. The ones on Charterhouse St have been left up and painted around to maintain them, one done next to a Lloyds cashpoint on Old St lasted about 2 days before it was painted over.

@Dan Waters. I did have a Banksy sprayed over the front of my house, it brightened it up considerably. Also a bunch of people in Bristol campaigned to stop the council scrubbing one recently. As he points out, we're constantly assailed by advertising on our streets without recourse to complain, sometimes I think I'd prefer kids scrawling on phone boxes.
For the rest of it, he seems to be a victim of his own success, but other artists (or vandals, depending on your pov) that I know think this is just a good thing for them. Some I know just got sent out by the Arts Council to a country that wanted more street art, and fancied some from the dirty old town we live in... :)

Unequivocally, yes. Banksy is utter rubbish. Sixth-form politics mixed with the worst kind of "urban chic". Although I must admit he is quite good at drawing rats. I refer my learned friends to this excellent Guardian piece by Charlie Brooker. I couldn't have put it better myself...
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1878555,00.html

Thank goodness not everyone is as cynical as Charlie Brooker. The world would be a very dull place.

Strangely, Brooker's own Nathan Barley used Banksy-esque imagery to give it 'street cred' (for lack of a better term).

I'm not sure I should be joining in with this conversation. Am I now just trying desperately to wear my badge of cool, or did I just like a picture of a rat with a camera?

So - am I the only person who just isn't that bothered?

He seems not to have appeared on my radar enough for me to form much of an opinion either way.

I don't think that the GWL group has "a bit of a thing for Banksy". I don't notice that it comes up that often or inappropriately. There's one in there now, and nobody knows where it is.

As for the man /phenomenon - I don't feel that stongly - I'll photograph it if I see a piece that entertains me (and it sometimes does), but won't go looking for it or joining groups devoted to it.

I think that the opinions people hold about him are fairly typical for anything that started underground / alternative, and has become popular and well-known, rather than anything specific to Banksy.

@bendylan: Yes, bloody ads in the pavement, and every square foot of flat space....

www.flickr.com/groups/reclaim_the_outdoors/

Reclaim The Outdoors!

I'm with Barbara: it's the way Flickr seems to have decided that Banksy is interesting that really started winding me up. Is it really a good thing that one quarter of the most interesting 20 photos tagged London are graffiti a good thing?

Also, if advertising is design but not art, then surely graffiti is at best street design? Art implies something that I don't think your average stencil, or tag (or, well, anything that's vandalism) manages.

Maybe all this means is that I am now an official grumpy old man.

I suppose this is not the place to say I quite like his work and the first view of each piece usually provokes some sort of positive reaction in me.
I certainly found his Gaza Strip wall painting very moving.

there are also alot of pictures of leaves on flickr : )

"Interestingness" is a bit shit, anyway innit. I don't think it matters a hoot how much graffiti is up there.

If I was doing a tagsearch for "London", I'd probably be more interested in graffiti than in swans and flower macros, however good the photos were.

I can't imagine I'd ever tagsearch just "London" unless I was doing a statty thing to work out some sort of league table, though.

Let me be clear: I like Banksy. I don't look to him for political guidance or insight - but I'm glad he's out there doing what he's doing. I hope interest in his work increases so the value of my framed Kate Moss print will escalate in value! ;)

I'd would say from observing this thread that this is a classic case of 'something alternative has become more mainstream so I have to say I don't like it to show that I am more alternative than the thing that became alternative and has now beome mainstream because that makes me Teh Win' but I think the anti-Banksys are more than capable of embarassing themselves :)

I agree with Alastair Rae and Dave G.

I like anything that makes you laugh or think abit more about society we all live in...after looking at the Banksy group I found lots of similar street artists all over the world on Flickr all with different takes based on their ideas or culture. I think whatever you opinion street art or graffiti, it has moved on from the classic days of 'I was ere''....see any ancient monument... if it's just about personel taste the argument should be extended to cover architecture and street advertising or the size of lorries wheels...


Check out paris with this guy
www.flickr.com/photos/vitostreet/

Quote:__blech
"Also, if advertising is design but not art, then surely graffiti is at best street design?

Possibly, and as we are bombarded by advertising we didn't consent to does that make it graffitti? I'd like to think so.

"Art implies something that I don't think your average stencil, or tag (or, well, anything that's vandalism) manages."

But art reduced to it's purest goal is to provoke thought and discussion. That is exactly what Banksy has achieved right on this page. I don't find everything he does aesthetically pleasing but I can't argue with the fact that he has achieved what he set out to do.

Art has caused offense for many millenia and will continue to do so.

Ok I admit it - I really am rubbish.

Go guess some photos, you wasters