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Sounds like a good idea to me, if for no other reason than the copyright information. But if you are going to copy that, why not everything? sounds like a simple addition with great benefit.
Posted 28 months ago.
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Flickr - PLEASE update your resizing scripts to keep metadata (especially the copyright field) instead of throwing it out. Or at least make it a user preference so those of us that are concerned can keep that information on our images.
If there is some logic that metadata makes the filesizes too large - I can understand this, but if anything - keep the contact info and copyright. This is crucial to avoid the images becoming orphans if they are copied from the site.
Thanks.
Posted 26 months ago.
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I agree to keep some fields with the smaller versions, but 1 field flickr doesn't erase. Compare any of my pics.
e.g:
curl farm2.static.flickr.com/1338/1381205431_93833de7e9_t.jpg | exiftool -G -H -comment -
.....
[File] - Comment : ZOO HELLBRUNN SALZBURG, 2007-09-13, K100, Copyr. 2007 by Albert Bogner, Salzburg, gpg-keyserver.de/pks/lookup?search=0xFA6E86F6
Posted 25 months ago.
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I support this suggestion.
I can see that the process would involve some computation for the EXIF data, but it should be a simple copy operation for IPTC metadata. So at the very least, let's have the IPTC metadata copied across to the resized images as well, please Flickr...
Posted 25 months ago.
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No software tool should strip off IPTC Creator/Copyright information. Flickr images don't just stay in Flickr, they spread out throughout the world appearing on websites, getting embedded into presentations, and the like. Once they've been taken from the site, their association with the Flickr user that uploaded them is broken. This impacts the ability for people to track down the creator of a photograph.
There are many outcomes of this, one of which is the fueling of the orphan work problem. Orphan works have become such a big problem that the U.S. Copyright Office has prepared a report on orphan works. According to the Center for the Study of the Public Domain at Duke, orphan works probably comprise the majority of the record of 20th century culture.
In short, Flickr really needs to preserve IPTC metadata on resizing down to any usable size of image. In addition, Flickr needs to go back through its collection of images and migrate IPTC metadata for existing uploaded images to their resized counterparts. I know this last bit is asking for a lot considering the sheer size of the collection photographs that Flickr manages. However, I think it's necessary.
I've written more about this at: duncandavidson.com/2008/04/flickr-strips-copyright-metada...
Originally posted 19 months ago.
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duncandavidson edited this topic 19 months ago.
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This is a wonderful idea, I definitely agree with Mr. Davidson on this point - there needs to be some way to retain a link to the creator of the image.
Posted 19 months ago.
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I agree, keep the IPTC, EXIF
Posted 19 months ago.
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Strong agreement on this - internal metadata is the only realistic way to keep track of copyright, contact info, etc. and it's a nice reward for including keywords, captions, too.
Posted 19 months ago.
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I for one am starting to see my images in googles image search which in my opinion is simply a breeding ground for copyright infringement. It's a major flaw that these images can be downloaded and potentially used without the photographer ever being the wiser.
We spend a lot of time ensuring our IPTC data is updated just to have Flickr strip them out. Please rethink this process Flickr and update all images that have been affected. It should just be a batch reprocess.
Posted 19 months ago.
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+1 for keeping IPTC tags
Posted 19 months ago.
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Pretty please, Flickr. Any and all metadata should be kept.
Posted 19 months ago.
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+1 from me, stripping this data out doesn't make sense.
Posted 19 months ago.
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This is an absolute necessity really. ALL information possible that comes with the photo, needs to stay with the photo, regardless of size. And Mr Davidson makes a great argument for the importance of the copyright information especially.
Posted 19 months ago.
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+1
Flickr has done a lot to preserve and maintain metadata - this one is a glaring oversight that needs to be fixed. Please Flickr, keep all metadata on uploaded images even after they are resized.
Posted 19 months ago.
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+1
As far as I'm concerned, this isn't a "wonderful" idea, but a *necessary* one. I don't have a lot of images up – yet – but as someone getting ready to move a large portion of his portfolio online, this is a heck of a discouragement.
Hopefully, the Flickr team can implement this change in a timely manner, and make all of us happy.
Posted 19 months ago.
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Another +1 here - this is an absolute requirement for the ability to maintain copyright on one's images.
Thanks
Posted 19 months ago.
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Flickr... Please pay attention to this thread. The elimination of the IPTC and EXIF tags when shrinking an image is a vary bad thing. Please correct this action, and expend the development and computational resources to reapply said data to the previously resized images.
Posted 19 months ago.
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I discovered this fact about a month ago and have all but stopped posting non-snapshots to flickr because of it. It is hard enough to keep track of photos ripped off, but being able to not point to the metadata of the image as proof that an image is mine makes that job even harder. Yes, the original image does keep the metadata, but many times the smaller images are ripped off; after all, if they're being used on websites, they're not normally the original size images that get snagged.
Flickr Staff: thanks for seriously considering this request. Making this change would be a very, very welcome event for me and I'm sure a lot of other photographers who may not even realize the smaller image metadata is gone.
Posted 19 months ago.
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+1 Please preserve as much of the original photographic metadata as possible. Particularly IPTC.
If Flickr is to be the place for photographers, then you should continue to be a champion of the creator and a healthy commons in these matters.
Thank you.
Posted 19 months ago.
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At least the copyright information should not be removed from the pictures!
Posted 19 months ago.
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The copyright information at least should certainly be kept in all deriviative smaller images that Flickr creates.
Regards,
Rob..
Posted 19 months ago.
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Yes, I would like to see the IPTC meta data kept too!
Posted 19 months ago.
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Flickr is 'way cool. But removing identifying information from uploaded images seems, well, more "Sheriff of Nottingham" than "Robin Hood."
Posted 19 months ago.
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Please modify the behavior of the resize process. It's vital that metadata be preserved. None of the rights models can work without it, including Creative Commons.
Posted 19 months ago.
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I support this suggestion whole-heartedly. I've always assumed there was nothing one could do about it, but it seems that Flickr might be listening and might be persuaded to do the right thing.
Posted 19 months ago.
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Yes, all metadata should be preserved whenever possible. In other words, +1.
Posted 19 months ago.
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+1 copyright info should certainly be preserved when possible.
Posted 19 months ago.
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+1. Copyright info should be in all versions of a photo.
Posted 19 months ago.
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+1 for the idea
-1 to flickr; this is a pretty bad miss.
Posted 19 months ago.
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Flickr should absolutely maintain the IPTC metadata in resized images - for all the reasons stated above.
All the tools in our workflow are getting more sophisticated about adding this info, and the current break in the chain is Flickr.
Please maintain this info!
Posted 19 months ago.
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+1 on preserving IPTC metadata.
Posted 19 months ago.
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I support this idea
Posted 19 months ago.
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I support this idea but I would love that they were able also to transfer/preserve PNGs metadata too.
Posted 19 months ago.
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Definitely a must have!
Posted 19 months ago.
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I would like to add my support for this. I can't imagine why it would be a good idea to remove any meta data from a re-sized image. Other than to correct any sizing information of course.
Posted 19 months ago.
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I agree with this, this should be a requirement.
Posted 19 months ago.
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I asked about this in some thread or other when I first joined flickr, and there were quite a few posters who supported the current system and did not want EXIF/IPTC in smaller versions. Can't remember any of their arguments.....
Posted 19 months ago.
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Found one of the arguments that sort of makes sense:
One possible reason comes to my mind: if someone changes the privacy setting for EXIF display Flickr would have to recreate the smaller sizes for all photos of this person. Also, some people (who disabled access to the original file) might not like to embed EXIF data into the smaller sizes.
But it would still seem to me that including the data is a reasonable default behavior, unless someone has specifically chosen to hide EXIF data.
Posted 19 months ago.
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+1
Not fully hiding EXIF is a non-issue to me. What's there to hide?
If somebody really doesn't want to show it, they should strip it out before uploading – there are lots of freeware tools and uploaders to choose from offering such a feature.
Evaluating the more valuable interest, I'd definitely rank preserving IPTC and preventing copyright infringement over hiding EXIF for whatever reason.
Posted 19 months ago.
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Even better, Flickr should add another checkbox besides "Hide EXIF", "Strip out EXIF for good".
With both unchecked as a default, all filesizes should have intact EXIF and IPTC.
Originally posted 19 months ago.
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Dom Dada edited this topic 19 months ago.
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If nothing else, I'd be interested to hear why the metadata is currently being stripped (perhaps a technical issue to do with the resizing process, or a privacy issue as suggested above).
Posted 19 months ago.
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This is an important feature, esp. regarding copyright information. Currently, resized images are orphaned.
Posted 19 months ago.
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Hey all,
Lets take as a starting point we all get why this is serious, and we'd like to do the right thing, but at scale even the simplest seeming things are amazingly difficult.
From our perspective we get a couple of really nice properties by stripping EXIF/IPTC.
We put a fair amount of work into getting the best looking resized images, while making them small enough to serve quickly enough to provide a decent web browsing experience. We aren't doing this for storage concerns, this is about web browsing experience.
Bulking up the served images with data that no one sees, and only an (awesome) minority of people care about means that bandwidth has to come out of somewhere.
Another problem is the metadata can be arbitrarily large. You can stick Word documents in there. Or base 64 encoded copyright infringing MP3s.
A significant percentage of folks hide their EXIF (I'll try to dig up that percentage). So expectations would have be managed around that. We're simply not going to be able to go back and re-process people's images on preference update.
I'm sure there are more, those are just two that have come up in the past that I remember. (and probably this group could think of ones we've missed)
Can we maybe brainstorm around how to solve those concerns?
Is there a reduced profile of IPTC with predictable size constraints? (Creator and copyright got mentioned)
Maybe embedding some sort of pointer (URI) to the metadata-enriched originals? (of course many people hide their originals for obvious reasons)
Ideas?
[I'm Flickr Staff]
Posted 19 months ago.
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As far as I'm concerned, it's only really important to preserve the creator, copyright, and contact info. That way someone who grabs the photo from the site can still find me later if they want to, and they also have to make an intentional effort to remove the copyright info if they want to steal it. In any case, they can't pretend there was no such info in the first place.
Posted 19 months ago.
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@ kellan and andy:
Credit, byline and copyright IPTC fields are limited to a total of 224 characters, so only preserving these and stripping out everything else would not weigh in too heavy, but it would address the major concern of attribution.
The pointer idea isn't exactly what the people are asking for, but it's better than nothing – e.g. with the autogenerated URL linking to the authors profile page, the image would be backtraceable just the same.
(Though adding metadata that most users aren't aware of could stir up some trouble, so sticking with a restricted set of IPTC fields seems smarter – it only affects those who care to add these.)
Posted 19 months ago.
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+1 I agree
Posted 19 months ago.
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A request on behalf of Nikon DSLR users: if the solution turns out to be to include just a few metadata fields related to attribution, please include the "User Comment" field (called "Image Comment" in Nikon's in-camera menus). As far as I'm aware, it's an EXIF rather than an IPTC field. Nikon limits input to 36 characters, so it should be safe to limit the field in resized photos (to prevent embedding of Word documents, MP3s etc.) It's currently included in Flickr's metadata pages - see any of my more recent photos.
Also see www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d40/users-guide/menus-setup.htm...
Originally posted 19 months ago.
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Gimbo edited this topic 19 months ago.
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I also wish to add support for this suggested change to Flickr. I hope that such a relatively easy (although perhaps CPU and disk intensive) upgrade will be implemented as soon as possible. At the moment, Flickr is a contributor to this problem instead of addressing it. The added info doesn't (and obviously cannot) be unlimited in size, but copyright, creator, and an autogenerated URL would be an excellent start.
Originally posted 19 months ago.
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Glifter edited this topic 19 months ago.
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Kellan: Thanks for chiming in. I understand where the desire to optimize comes from, but please recognize that Flickr is not just a place to view images, it's become a place to take images and put them into other places. As such, a few hundreds of bytes is a very small price to pay to keep the metadata as to who owns an image into images served from Flickr. It's not just about making a small percentage of your users happy, it's about being able to understand what an image is and interpret it far into the future when it's been sourced into other systems from Flickr.
Also--a counterpoint about quick browsing experience: I dig the videos, but when you go to somebody's item page with a video on it, it starts loading the video immediately. There's no choice to it, no tease image so that I can make the decision to load or not. It just loads and goes. I'm not going to argue if that was a correct design decision or not, but I will point out that you're over-optimizing essential data from images for bandwidth while under-optimizing video viewing bandwidth.
(oh, and I dig the videos. I don't fall into the "no videos on Flickr" camp :) Let's just be clear on that)
As far as I'm concerned, Copyright, Creator and related attribution fields which indicate who owns the rights of the image are the non-negotiable required fields. They are small and lightweight. The prevention of creating orphans as well as the potential to help users and other machine systems know who created and owns the rights to your users images should be more than enough payback for the small size that they occupy.
Everything _past_ that point is totally negotiable. I'd like to see caption/headline/object, at least down to the 500px size, but that's a significantly lesser priority than copyright/creator in my book. (500px being the starting size that most people would "borrow" for use, restorage, etc.) Maybe a pointer link is useful, but given that images sourced from Flickr might live life on systems past Flickr's lifetime, I'm not sure it's an appropriate long term solution.
As far as embedded files go, yah, they can definitely get stripped. You can convert to sRGB if something is in some other profile and dump the ICC profile. All of that is fair game in my book.
On the no-regeneration on a preference change, I get that it's something that shouldn't happen on a preference flip, but I have 6000 images that are in Flickr that need copyright/creator info. If you enable this for new images, but there's no way to go back and mark the old photos, I've still got the same problem for a vast library of interesting, useful, and valuable photos--including every O'Reilly conference shot for the last 3 and a half years. Would I really have to re-upload all of those and break links? Or replace each image by hand? That'd be a problem as well. I'd just a soon kill my account than try try to do that by hand.
Anyway, I hope that helps and I hope that something can be done to rectify this issue.
Thanks!
Posted 19 months ago.
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Agreed, IPTC tags should be maintained across all converted image sizes.
Posted 17 months ago.
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+1 !!!
I agree that all data associated with my photos should be kept with all sizes of that photo.
Posted 17 months ago.
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I also agree- all contact information and metadata must be preserved.
Posted 17 months ago.
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Well, cost of space might be moot in the face of many lawsuits against Flickr for violation of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act by stripping owner copyright data from uploaded images. Ownership and copyright information must be preserved in image files uploaded to Flickr. That's been said and said here, so that's it.
I refuse to pay for a Pro account while IPTC data is being stripped and encourage others not to subscribe or renew until Flickr addresses this problem. Delete your images if necessary to send a strong message.
Like others, I will not upload any commerically viable images without copyright and ownership information being retained. Even then, I place a visible copyright notice on all photos I upload to Flickr to help counteract the missing info (and probably would continue to do so even if IPTC data was not stripped).
Flickr can be a great resource and many professionals use Flickr (though the copyright issue is not important just for professionals, but for all Flickr contributors). It would go a very long way if Flickr were to recognize this and step up to respect the works of those using the service. Other sites do, why is Flickr so far behind?
Posted 17 months ago.
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IPTC tags should be maintained across all converted image sizes. ... hear hear!
Posted 17 months ago.
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Is there any status update on this topic? I really want to go back to posting stuff other than snapshots.
Thanks!
Posted 16 months ago.
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Blue Planet Ahem....where did you get the idea that IPTC data is being stripped? Your originals are 'as uploaded' copies, of course, you need to be Pro to access the originals.
The data is not 'stripped' from the smaller sizes, it just isn't transferred during the conversion, for sensible reasons (which you are free to disagree with).
Originally posted 16 months ago.
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Kyudos edited this topic 16 months ago.
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How to buy a photo on Flickr - more reason why Flickr should keep the EXIF/IPTC data across all file sizes.
Posted 15 months ago.
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+1 come on Flickr sort out the resize engine to transfer EXIF data, please!
Posted 15 months ago.
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Metadata is becoming more and more important, if I'm going to take the time to enrich the originals so much I'd like to see it reflected in the Flickr sized photos as well!
Posted 15 months ago.
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Vote me in for IPTC support across all sizes...
Also: Why not exhibit IPCT on those images not coming from a camera? Example: If I upload a scanned image where there is not EXIF, Flickr will automatically not show IPTC... Even though it is there! Very frustrating.
Posted 13 months ago.
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I can't believe this is STILL AN ISSUE. I'm seriously considering deleting my flickr account. Kellan, I appreciate the response, but it's mildly insulting. A lot of people would "care" about the issue if they were aware of it, and the number of people who "care" about something should never prevent a company from doing what's right.
Posted 10 months ago.
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Vote me in for this IPTC tags across all sizes - I would have thought maintaining this is far far better for individuals that the minor file size diff.
To be honest I'm surprised you haven't got round to fixing this before now
Posted 10 months ago.
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+1 for keeping metadata with all picture sizes save, perhaps, the smallest thumbnails. I want GPS info, especially, to stick around after resizing.
Although I've a Pro account, I've not used it much (so far). I am about to re-publish all of my online photographic content, and am considering switching to from here to Picasa. Having this feature would help keep me here.
kellan - If you're seriously worried about someone using metadata for steganography, then can stick a (reasonable) maximum length on all arbitrarily extensible fields.
Originally posted 10 months ago.
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tlunde edited this topic 10 months ago.
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+1
Posted 10 months ago.
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Another year, another tilt at the windmill.
Here's what a photo with metadata from flickr SHOULD look like:
Here's what it DOES look like:
This isn't just a matter of "I want my name to go with my photo", it's a matter of the commons. The metadata of a photo, including creator, title, and caption, are important and should be preserved for the future. And not just a future of 10 minutes from now, but a future of 50 years from now or more.
Posted 10 months ago.
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++
Posted 10 months ago.
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+1
It's really past time that this issue was addressed, IMHO.
Thanks!
—Theory
Posted 10 months ago.
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I never even realised the EXIF was stripped from smaller sizes. Rather defeats the point of me adding the Meta and encouraging people to use the CC licence on my pix if the attribution I included is taken out.
Please fix this.
Posted 10 months ago.
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 Truly, Madly, Arty Lee
If you have licensed an image with a CC license, the original is available and has all the EXIF data.
Posted 10 months ago.
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+1
i did not realise this data was not transfered until recently. Definitely makes me reconsider my pro account payments.
Please sort this out! Thanks.
Posted 10 months ago.
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I didn't realize this either. Please add my vote...
Posted 10 months ago.
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I see no harm in copying some basic identification data to other sizes, but would suggest this be limited to fixed length fields or be otherwise capped in some fashion. We already see enough complaints of the site being slow without adding to page load times unnecessarily.
Posted 10 months ago.
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Yeah, just to add this is only thing that stops me getting a pro account and using Flickr as my primary online setup.
Posted 10 months ago.
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-20
@duncandavidson says:
No software tool should strip off IPTC Creator/Copyright information. Flickr images don't just stay in Flickr
This is wrong. The Exif spec especially says that if a tag is not known or if the image is modified the exif data must be stripped or modified accordingly.
In any case, this idea can not be implemented cause the Flickr feature to hide the exif data won't work anymore.
So when making this request please ask for removal of this feature too.
The best way to really implement it is to let the user specify WHICH exif tags he wants to be stored across the images. Imho Flickr should add a DEFAULT exif tag to all images which is AUTHOR: <URL to photostream>. This will help against abuse/people copying photos a lot.
Originally posted 10 months ago.
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JeromeF edited this topic 10 months ago.
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I absolutely agree with the topic starter - the EXIF/IPTC metadata should exist on all image size.
Posted 10 months ago.
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I think it is ok that EXIF is only on original file, but IPTC should be kept on all sizes.
Posted 10 months ago.
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+1 I also agree with The topic starter. EXIF/IPTC metatdata should stay, regardless of the size. I had no idea that this occurred, and it troubles me a lot. I like flickr, but this is a problem that shouldn't even exist. Please fix this, Flickr!
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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images by mlp edited this topic 9 months ago.
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Holy cow! This should be fixed by now! I've been influential in at least 10-15 professional photographers starting to share their photos on flickr...(along with a decent number of pro accounts)...and flickr is saying(by silence) they don't care about copyright as long as the end user can view their photos quickly. Even if you just fixed this so all photos from here on out included it, it would be better than ignoring it and claiming that it's not important.
Posted 9 months ago.
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I totally agree that data should not be stripped in the resizing.
I am frustrated that this hasn't been addressed, at least for those who pay for "Pro." flickR should *absolutely not* be stripping creator and license data from the resized images.
This is just irresponsible and, as others have said, really feeds the "orphan works" monster.
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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Anthony Citrano edited this topic 9 months ago.
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(vote +1) What? Flickr is cutting out IPTC metadata from the small photo versions? This Is definitely not right. I expect the metadata to be in all versions.
Via friendfeed.com/e/c5cca1a8-2519-4bd0-8edb-6b8a64229c83/Fli...
Originally posted 9 months ago.
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Markus Merz edited this topic 9 months ago.
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As flickr claims to the preferred hosting solution for serious and professional photographers, it seem ludicrous that casual photo sharing sites like photobucket and imageshack maintain all metadata in resized versions.
Something im sure would be more appreciated a thousand times more by the users of Flickr than those other sites.
Posted 2 months ago.
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More than an oversight, or a bug, or a feature request, but isn't flickr itself violating copyright by providing copyrighted images to the public with the copyright removed. How can anyone possibly go after somebody for stealing their images if they can say "I downloaded it from flickr" as their excuse.
The metadata absolutely should stay with resized images !
Posted 2 months ago.
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What has the metadata got to do with copyright? Does that mean film shots don't have copyright?
I'm curious - where does Flickr make that claim? The story I understood was that Flickr targeted the ordinary everyday snapshots and were as surprised as anyone when more serious photographers showed up.
Posted 2 months ago.
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Patrick
"What has the metadata got to do with copyright?"
It is where the copyright information is stored
"Does that mean film shots don't have copyright?"
Well, techincally, they don't. If I see a photograph sitting on a park bench by itself, there is no copyright with that photo. Of course the image may be copyrighted, but it's up to the owner of the copyright to maintain that separate from the photo, unless it's printed on the photo. (This must be very difficult for film photographers)
flickr should no more be removing the copyright metadata from resized images than I should be xeroxing a photo and putting white-out over a copyright stamp.
Posted 2 months ago.
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I'm afraid you are incorrect on all your points.
Copyright is not stored in meta data. You have a copyright for anything you produce, from the moment you produce it until you voluntarily give it up, or until a number of years after your death.
Film shots are equally protected.
Posted 2 months ago.
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Congratulations, you win this p*ssing contest.
Allow me to restate:
"Indication of copyright is stored in the metadata"
and a photo by itself has no indication of copyright unless it's printed on the photo.
To remove indication of copyright is wrong.
(you've got some awesome wildlife pictures by the way)
Posted 2 months ago.
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No pissing contest involved. You simply don't need to indicate the copyright; it's a given. You can use the meta data to provide contact information should someone want to arrange a licensed use of your image. But with/without meta data, the assumption should be all images are copyrighted unless proven otherwise (in public domain, produced by the US Government etc)
Posted 2 months ago.
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How anoying. I had no idea that flickr did this. I support the small versions having their meta data left intact. No doubt when multiplied over millions and millions of photos the file size implications really add up, however that should be a necessary overhead for flickr as removing this data is dodgy.
(Despite not affecting the copyright status one bit)
Originally posted 2 months ago.
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Flet©h edited this topic 2 months ago.
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Patrick:
After re-reading, I did come across rather snippy (I see what you meant now) .. my apologies
Kellan:
Perhaps stripping out just the fields that hold large amounts of data would be a solution, but normally the meta-data is a tiny percentage of the file size. It would be nice also to let users know what is being removed from their files when it's done.
Posted 2 months ago.
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I like the idea. Add my vote.
Posted 2 months ago.
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Add my vote too -- because it's usually the "medium" size that people copy/steal/re-post without permission, and that size doesn't contain the metadata.
However, the Flickr page where they stole the photo in the first place *does* display my copyright information, as well my "all rights reserved" license choice.
So I really don't see how it would prevent theft of photos to leave this field intact, except for the most honest of thieves (if that's not a complete oxymoron).
Originally posted 2 months ago.
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Saint.Seminole edited this topic 2 months ago.
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"However, the Flickr page where they stole the photo in the first place *does* display my copyright information"
Somebody using google image search might not see the flickr page, or at least skip by it easily. Same goes for any number of other image search sites.
http://images.google.com/images?imgsz=m&q=saint.seminole
Originally posted 2 months ago.
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SteelToad edited this topic 2 months ago.
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I would REALLY like/need the EXIF Data being kept intact for the other generated sized images.
Please implement this!
You could simply omit the image size data, and add in a comment that EXiF modified by Flickr.
Posted 2 months ago.
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