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Is photography in and out of Metro prohibited?
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Yesterday I was outside of Springfield metro station. When I see a row of colorful newpaper boxes and beautiful lighting with metro station as backgroud. I think it might have made a nice picture so I took out my old olympus rangefinder to take the shot. However, a metro bus driver nearby quickly stopped me and said I cannnot take photo there.
I am wondering if photography is prohibited in and out of DC Metro?
Posted at 2:02PM, 21 December 2005 PDT
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new.forums-wmata.com/shwmessage.aspx?ForumID=21&Messa...
Posted 78 months ago.
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I've never had a problem....but if you do it on a holiday or any other particularly busy day where you're impeding pedestrian flow, you'll get some stern looks.
Posted 78 months ago.
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I know there are signs in and around the Pentagon Metro station prohibiting photography. I guess considering our "modern" times, some folks are getting a might bit jumpy.
Posted 78 months ago.
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I've seen no signs prohibiting photography and we are still about 5% "free," right??? I've taken photos shooting up and down some of the longer escalators - I know, cliche - and inside on tunnel platforms -- still no arrest record....
Posted 78 months ago.
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Other than the Pentagon station you are allowed to take photos inside the metro. Furthermore, it sounds as though what you are talking about isn't even *in* the metro, so he had no grounds for prohibiting your taking the pictures.
Posted 78 months ago.
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From Metro's Regulations:
(2) Still photography that does not require a tripod, special lighting, film crews, models, impair the normal ingress/egress or operation of Authority services and can be accomplished by a hand held camera by one person is not regulated. Requests for photographic access that involve a camera crew of three or less, two pieces of lighting equipment or less, does not involve the use of a tripod, does not require assistance of Authority technical personnel or significantly impair the normal ingress/egress or operations will be allowed. Requests for a permit must be made two working days prior to the requested date of photography. Photography and filming that requires the use of models, special lighting equipment beyond two pieces, tripods, assistance and supervision from Authority staff, crews of more than three, or that impairs ingress/egress or normal system operations shall be governed by Section 100.8(a)(i). Television and newspaper press crews of five or fewer individuals and without any "plug-in" equipment are not subject to this regulation.
Not clear there is whether you could get away with a mini-pod or a monopod. I would check in advance with someone higher up the food chain.
Posted 78 months ago.
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If you were on the sidewalk it's fair game. He had no right. Only at military installations (the pentagon) can your right to photograph be abridged. Check this link out.
Posted 78 months ago.
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This is happening at all the subway-metro places around the country with ambiguous non-written rules about photography (except for the Pentagon metro station). i've heard photographers complain that subways/metros do not prohibit photography in writing but have some unwritten policies with their employees to keep an eye out on "suspicious" activity, whatever that means and this causes some arbritary harassment of photographers. they've harassing photographers in the Subway in NYC and in BART in the SF Bay Area about it but no one's ever seen a written policy saying that you can't take a picture in the stations, let alone on the sidewalk outside.
Posted 78 months ago.
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I had the same problem at 7am in La Enfant, and trying to take pictures at the DOC. THey tried something like this in NYC and NO LUCK, time for the complaints to start piling in. Oh Wait, apparently I am being spyed now. I mean I love out no picture policy in DC :-).
Posted 78 months ago.
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How about a photography action of some sort in DC? It could be fun: a bunch of us show up at a metro station at a designated time, click away, and invite the media. It would get the word out there about arbitrary constraints on our rights, yet in a fun way that allows us to meet up as well.
Originally posted 78 months ago.
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lightboxdc edited this topic 78 months ago.
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Last week, a flickr friend, his friend, and I went out to the Spy Museum around 2 on a Friday afternoon. We didn't really get any pictures of each other seeing as the Spy Museum prohibited photography, so before we got onto our trains at Gallery Place, we took some photos of each other. This was about the extent of it. Nothing of the building or infrastructure. We weren't even through the ticket gates, but after a few shots, the metro officer told us we had to stop as photography was prohibited. I was a little shocked by this, seeing as it had never happened to me before, we weren't taking photos of anything questionable, and weren't blocking the traffic of anyone, as, again, it was about 4 pm on a Friday afternoon.
Is there a reason why it seems that the Metro arbitarily tells people they can't shoot, even though it is not prohibited in the regulations above? I think it's quite ridiculous.
Posted 77 months ago.
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@Olivia, I think so many locations in DC have arbitrary policies in part because they know that most of us don't exactly know what we can and cannot do. I mean, if you're confronted by someone in authority who tells you to stop taking pictures, it takes some gumption to do it anyway.
I just came back from the Islamic Center on Mass. Ave. I called ahead and asked if it was OK to take pictures—the answer was yes. But when I got there the moment I set up my tripod in front of the center someone came out and told me it wasn't permitted, even though there were no other people present outside.
We each had a good shout but by the time it was over I decided not to take any pictures; what's the fun of it if people don't want you around? :-)
Originally posted 77 months ago.
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since1968 edited this topic 77 months ago.
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I highly recommend going to this link: Photographer's Rights and downloading the PDF file there. Print out a copy or two and keep them with you when you're out and about.
If you're planning to photograph in or around Metro I suggest you print out a copy of their regulations (linked in a previous post) and carry it with you as well. If some power abusing employee continues to bother you after you show them the rules, report them to their supervisors. Be sure to get their badge numbers or other ID--a photo would be best ;-)
Posted 77 months ago.
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RS_Photography [deleted] says:
Response from WMATA to my email inquiry:
"Dear sir,
Thanks for writing to Metro's Red Line Team. Photography is allowed throughout the system, however, tripods are not allowed in the system due to the space the take up and their effect on traffic flow. Camcorder filming by tourist is not prohibited in the system, however, commercial request for filming must be channeled through our Media Relations Office. Keep in mind, any suspicious activity may attract the attention of our Transit Police department and filmers or photographers could be questioned.
I hope this information is helpful. To speak to a Red Line Customer Service Representative for Comments, Complaints or Suggestions, please call 301-562-4605 weekdays between the hours of 8:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. You can leave a message at all other times or email us at redline@wmata.com.
If you ever need to speak with a customer Information Agent for assistance with general questions, please call 202-637-7000; Mon-Thurs: 6 a.m.-10:30 p.m., Fri:6 a.m.-11:30 p.m., Sat: 7 a.m.-11:30 p.m., Sun: 7 a.m.-10:30 p.m.
Sincerely,
Bob Hester
Red Line Customer Service Manager
223913"
Originally posted 77 months ago.
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RS_Photography edited this topic 77 months ago.
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Thanks for that. :)
Posted 77 months ago.
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i've been told before at a station that it wasn't allowed. good to know that i can now tell them that i've heard directly from metro that it is fine. actually, i may just print that out and carry it in my photo bag.
Originally posted 77 months ago.
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trentroche edited this topic 77 months ago.
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RS_Photography [deleted] says:
At least we now have a name (and number) since I specifically asked for the official stand of WMATA on photography in and around the Metro system.
Posted 77 months ago.
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Great discussion, good info here.
I've always wondered this as well but haven't had the free time to look into it. I've wanted to take more pictures inside Metro stations because I was so happy with my first one, but I was always concerned as to whether or not it was "ok" to do so. Glad to know it's allowed.
Posted 77 months ago.
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There are literally thousands of photos of Metro out there and many continue to be posted. I think it is safe to say that you can photograph anywhere in Metro (with the exception of the area around the Pentagon) so long as your doing so does not impede traffic flow. I've taken pictures in many of their stations, on trains and even into (not in) tunnels, and have never even been questioned. I am careful, however, to make sure that I stay well out of the way of pedestrian flow and that I avoid taking overt pictures of personnel. I've been riding Metro for 30 years and have seen hundreds of photographers in the system, even since 9/11. Metro, like other subway systems, is public space, and infringement of the right of photography is an infringement of free speech under the First Amendment. Free speech through photography can be limited in instances where legitimate security concerns warrant. Such instances include security and military installations. But calling a subway system that carries 700,000 people a day a security installation is patently ridiculous.
Thanks for posting the Metro regulations and letter from Metro. They certainly make our rights clear.
Originally posted 77 months ago.
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Bill in DC edited this topic 77 months ago.
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Thanks for the information! :)
Posted 77 months ago.
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On the yellow and green lines, the customer service person to contact is Wendy Harrison, 202-962-5898
Posted 76 months ago.
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so I don't know if anyone reads The Examiner on here, but the Sprawl and Crawl section by Steve Eldridge had this today, which raised my blood pressure:
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Art writes: "I sincerely hope Metro will indeed remember, or better yet understand, its own responsibility to keep the system safe in spite of its three-year out-reach program. I say this because last year, while on the Crystal City Metro platform, I noticed a man taking pictures of the Metro car, platform and surrounding area. He was by himself, so he was not taking 'family' photographs. This was certainly odd behavior. When I caught his attention, he quickly stopped and looked away. It appeared to me that he was casing the location. I went to the station manager, who could care less. The best she could do, after I pressed her to do something, was to tell me to call the Metro main office. When I did call, the response was the same -- they could not be bothered. I then called the FBI and it at least took my information. If metro is serious about emergency management and saving lives, it first needs to be serious in its own house. Metro needs a serious training program AND an exercise program to ensure that the Metro personnel are ready for any emergency. The exercise program must include no-notice checks so that people are indeed pushed to know their stuff and be useful in an emergency instead of uselsss."
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Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but the thought that this person called the FBI to report what i'm sure was a photog (could have even been me, as I sometimes am at crystal city metro, by myself, and take pictures of the metro) just enrages me. note that he did not say he confronted the man, only that he "caught his attention." who doesn't look away when they catch attention with someone? Personally, i get self-conscious about taking pictures when people are staring at me for precisely this reason, and will often stop what i'm doing as well.
The public needs to be informed that there are those of us out there that find art in ordinary everyday things, that in photography there is more than just "family pictures" and "terrorism."
Steve welcomes comments to his column, I hope some of you will join me in writing a comment to try and express to the public our situation and the harassment that we sometimes face:
"Questions, comments, random musings? Write to Steve@SprawlandCrawl.com "
Posted 76 months ago.
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After a lot of searching, I found the article here, on page 2, upper right corner. You fail to include Steve's response to "Art":
First of all, Metro’s commitment
to emergency management is huge,
and I’ve seen it demonstrated on
a number of occasions in training
and live drills that would scare you
to death. Transit police are some
of the best-trained in the country
in handling terrorism-related
problems. They have been put
through a battery of tests and drills
and they really do know their stuff.
They’d better be, because our transit
system is an obvious target. The
problem you describe is with the
station manager and, while Metro
is really working to get them on the
same page, there is still work to be
done in terms of the way they deal
with problems and the public. The
training programs for station managers
are ongoing, but it would be
nice to see some simple common
sense used by those who are Metro’s
“face” to the public.
If we are to respond to Steve, this should be the portion to which we are responding, I think.
Originally posted 76 months ago.
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miscelena (a group admin) edited this topic 76 months ago.
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Yes, sorry, I should have included that. However, I get the impression that Steve does not necessarily disagree with "Art," and that he believes station managers should be better trained and use better common sense when dealing with the public. Whether this meant the manager should have had more common sense than to just blow off "Art" or whether the manager should have had more common sense and gone and done something about the photographer..I don't know.
Originally posted 76 months ago.
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trentroche edited this topic 76 months ago.
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Agreed... Steve's response is ambiguous.
I'm so torn on this issue - if photographers would stop acting furtively when "caught" (and turning defensive)... perhaps they would seem less suspicious.
If, instead of moving away, the photographer had engaged "Art" in conversation about what he was doing, "Art" could have been better aware of other potential explanations for photography in a Metro station, the station manager would not have been harassed by him, the FBI agent tasked with handling the ridiculous number of false leads that come in would have had one less "incident" to document, and Art probably would have slept better.
Along with rights come responsibilities, and I think that being empathetic about other citizens' fears is one of those responsibilities. Particularly in an area (near the Pentagon, or really just in DC in general) where nearly everyone is only one step away from being directly affected by 9/11. I am not "enraged" by Art's actions, only saddened. Clearly he was deeply affected by the terrorist's actions in ways that others of us were not.
Here, let me make a provocative statement, less directed at "Art" or "Steve" or you, and more for general discussion in this thread:
Perhaps it is not just a question of our rights, but ALSO a question of our responsibilities as photographers? Freedom of speech, after all, does not include the right to yell "Fire" in a crowded room and incite panic.
Originally posted 76 months ago.
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miscelena (a group admin) edited this topic 76 months ago.
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Yes, I agree, to a certain extent the photographer should not act so shaddy when confronted, however, we also don't know the circumstances of this crystal city incident. "Art" could have been on the opposite side of the platform, for all we know, and as such it would be unreasonable to require the photographer to cross platforms to discuss what he is doing.
it is a very difficult issue, and i am always very willing to talk to someone that inquires about my photography actions and to explain what i'm doing. but that only works if the concerned person is not so paranoid as to yell "FIRE" themselves without knowing the situation.
Posted 76 months ago.
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Well, Art didn't start a mob or riot.
I think what Art did was say "I see smoke" to the person he felt was in charge of preventing fires... which you and others may see as "paranoid", but for him was a perfectly reasonable action.
Posted 76 months ago.
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FYI... taken from a WMATA regulation manual (9/04):
"Still photography that does not require a tripod, special lighting, film crews, models, impair the normal ingress/egress or operation of Authority services and can be accomplished by a hand held camera by one person is not regulated.
Requests for photographic access that involve a camera crew of three or less, two pieces of lighting equipment or less, does not involve the use of a tripod, does not require assistance of Authority technical personnel or significantly impair the normal ingress/egress or operations will be allowed.
Requests for a permit must be made two working days prior
to the requested date of photography. Photography and filming that requires the use of models, special lighting equipment beyond two pieces, tripods, assistance and supervision from Authority staff, crews of more than three, or that impairs ingress/egress or normal
system operations shall be governed by Section 100.8(a)(i).
Television and newspaper press crews of five or fewer individuals and without any "plug-in" equipment are not subject to this regulation."
Link: www.wmata.com/about/parp_docs/UseRegulations.pdf
Posted 67 months ago.
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FYI, already posted early in this thread...11 months ago. ;-)
Posted 67 months ago.
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Oops..sorry. Thanks richpix!
Posted 67 months ago.
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I assume by the long quiet period in this thread that no one has been hassled lately while taking photos in the Metro. I haven't done a lot of photography in the system of late, but I have used a camera at Grosvenor, Union Station, McPherson Square, Smithsonian and Capitol South and no one has even looked at me sideways. I've done photos from all sorts of areas, including shots taken at the end of the platforms and shots looking into the tunnels. I'm definitely visible on the monitors in central control and at the attendant's kiosk. Everything is as I would expect it to be -- and just as Metro's regulations provide.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Are you kidding me?
I take pictures all the time at various metro stops and on the trains and I've never ever been hassled about it. Huh.
I mean; there's nothing WRONG with it...as long as you are not standing in the middle of a huge crowd blocking traffic or being a dirty little escalefter to get 'yer photo, I mean, go ahead. It aint disturbin' anything.
Posted 65 months ago.
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"escalefter" :)
Posted 65 months ago.
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I have taken over 100 photos in the metro stations and on the bus and I have never been bothered.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Breaking news! nothing is happening!
Posted 65 months ago.
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Woot!
Posted 65 months ago.
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Bumping this response from RS_Photography:
Response from WMATA to my email inquiry:
"Dear sir,
Thanks for writing to Metro's Red Line Team. Photography is allowed throughout the system, however, tripods are not allowed in the system due to the space the take up and their effect on traffic flow. Camcorder filming by tourist is not prohibited in the system, however, commercial request for filming must be channeled through our Media Relations Office. Keep in mind, any suspicious activity may attract the attention of our Transit Police department and filmers or photographers could be questioned.
I hope this information is helpful. To speak to a Red Line Customer Service Representative for Comments, Complaints or Suggestions, please call 301-562-4605 weekdays between the hours of 8:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. You can leave a message at all other times or email us at redline@wmata.com.
If you ever need to speak with a customer Information Agent for assistance with general questions, please call 202-637-7000; Mon-Thurs: 6 a.m.-10:30 p.m., Fri:6 a.m.-11:30 p.m., Sat: 7 a.m.-11:30 p.m., Sun: 7 a.m.-10:30 p.m.
Sincerely,
Bob Hester
Red Line Customer Service Manager
223913"
Originally posted 65 months ago.
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Alt.Frames edited this topic 65 months ago.
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