Concert Photography / Discuss

Mr Skel says:

At least i don't feel too lonely anymore =)
But hey, joke aside, i'm in the same boat.
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

Litost.    says:

Yeah, i feel your pain - i get this one often enough to be f****n annoying too - that and the ones that you have to repeatedly chase to pay :(.
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

PaulPhotographer    says:

thats the best rant i've read for a while
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

Andy Parker - Avangelist Photography    says:

My take on music since I was a very small boy (sometimes wonder whether that is actually still the case) was that if you were bitching about not being paid you had forgotten why you started playing in the first place. Unless your a total dickhead or deluded that you are going to "make it big"

When it comes to taking photo's I do it for the love, and I give my shots to bands for nothing because I know deep down that I am complete shit at it and don't have the nouse to actually starting playing around with my expensive credit card borrowed camera gear.

I know that to make money from photography you cannot just go to a gig every night and listen to great music, and bad.

You got to do all that bollocks of ugly families and their ugly faces wanting that tacky portrait, weddings, endless hours of shooting inanimate objects behind various coloured backdrops for libraries and I just think.. fuck that, I just want to watch shows and if I get a decent picture out of the 60 I take I'll be happy and if the band like it enough to stick it on their myspace, even better.

Part of that is because I can't afford to go back to school and study photography and no number of books will really teach you want somebody else can.
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

Carrie Musgrave | Livebabylive.com says:

"Part of that is because I can't afford to go back to school and study photography and no number of books will really teach you want somebody else can."

Take a crash course on f-stops and ISOs and the other basics, and that's all you need to know. You don't need a fancy degree to learn music photography...that stuff has to be learned just by getting out there and doing it. Don't let that be an excuse to stop you from making an effort to improve.
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

craig nye [deleted] says:

"endless hours of shooting inanimate objects behind various coloured backdrops"

i happen to enjoy doing that...

"ugly families and their ugly faces wanting that tacky portrait"

i also happen to enjoy taking photos of people and making them look their best...

both of these present challenges to me that i enjoy overcoming. just like when i'm at a show with terrible lighting and i take that killer shot that gets published. it's also why i think in lighitng and angles, everytime i look at EVERYTHING. movies, ads, posters, photos... everything... it's why i read everything i can find, and why i spend every single minute of all of my free-time shooting, all the time.

and also why i continue to better myself.

i enjoy being paid to do this. i value the product i supply, i consider myself a competant shooter in the least. but if people and mags dig my work and pay me to do it, then sweet.

i do it because i have to, i can't not... so i guess i do it for the love of it. i stumbled into being a paid shooter, and now that i am i'm rolling with it... and it's good.

if you don't feel that way, then that's how you feel. each to their own.


btw: i have also not been "taught", everything i know i learn through trial and error.

i guess i found your rant slightly offensive.
Originally posted 48 months ago. (permalink)
craig nye edited this topic 48 months ago.

Shotlivephoto    says:

I was talking to a graphic artist friend of mine yesterday, and he has the best slogan.

Real Artists Get Paid.

Some of the greatest works of art produced were not done for free or for the love of it, they were done as paid works.
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

photographers-northwest.com    says:

""ugly families and their ugly faces wanting that tacky portrait"

i also happen to enjoy taking photos of people and making them look their best..."

i second that, anyone can take a pic of a 10 and make her look decent, show me the person who can take a 5 and make her look on paper like she does to her husband, thats a lot more impressive to me.

as to the o.g. poster, i can really understand that, i am undoubtedly not a pro, and yes i do give some stuff away, but it sure as hell should not be assumed a lot seem to just be under the impression that you should just be so grateful that you were let in their presence that you should want to give them stuff for free. some bands who are truly starving artist or are really truly just wanting to play for the sake of playing, well those guys (if i like them) may get my stuff for free, but don't assume it.

i think part of the problem is a perceived lack of value on our work. lets face it some of the people out their who have nothing but a point and shoot can take stuff that comes in the ballpark of what we can do with an slr...WHEN its shrunk down to myspace size. i think a lot of people just don't see the value in it. hell, a lot of bands wont take my stuff even when i'm giving it to them, some of my best stuff has never seen any use what so ever.
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

Roger Krueger says:

A good test is "what did they drive to the show?" If they've got some rusted-out 70's Econoline, why try to squeeze blood from a turnip?

But if they show up in last year's dually crew cab, it's obviously not "can't pay" it's "effing cheapskate".

An awful lot of really good bands are just doing it for the love of it, holding down 9-5's so they can support their music habit.

Sort of like the weekend farmers I knew growing up--guys with 80 acres they were determined to keep farming, even if they did need a job in the city to keep food on the table.
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

DanielKPhoto says:

the Avangelist says:

When it comes to taking photo's I do it for the love, and I give my shots to bands for nothing because I know deep down that I am complete shit at it...

1hr photo    says:

Not exactly the same scenario - but it involves the same mind-set (and, I'll bet, some of the same people...)

I work in a music shop. You would not believe the number of idiots we get, on a regular basis, trying to get free stuff out of us. The usual argument goes something like "we're doing this (insert spurious 'project' here), and if you could give us say, a couple of guitars, some amps, a drum kit, a PA system and some mics that would be like, really good publicity for you, wouldn't it?".

Answer: No - it would be just giving away stuff to bums. For every £100 of gear we give you, we have to sell another £300 just to cover what it cost us. We do NOT owe you free gear just because you can't / won't pay for it. We have to eat and keep the lights on. So NO, we won't be giving you free stuff any time soon.
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

letsmakeart    says:

"An awful lot of really good bands are just doing it for the love of it, holding down 9-5's so they can support their music habit."

And how many of you are holding down 9-5s to support your shooting habit, or shooting weddings for that matter ;)
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

moemoephoto    says:

I bet just about all of us are... (like me)
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

Jen Langman    says:

This drives me nuts!
People freak out when I wont give them full res copies of images. I've heard everything from how I'm trying to rip the band off to a variety of other nonsensical things.

I also hate how people think just because you love photography that you'd just love to work for them for free! because ya love it so much!

ha ha I feel ya on this one. grrr
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

Mr Skel says:

@let'smaleart: spot on.
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

jxe520    says:

All well and good, but you do photograph for the marketing company masquerading as a music website, FasterLouder.

Check out their ad rates here, do some maths to work out that that one site of theirs is probably bringing in a six figure sum every month and remind us how much they pay (most of) their photographers...
Posted 48 months ago. (permalink)

Eddie Smith    says:

my favourite was a band that got pissed cause i told them to take down stuff they stole from me. I explained that had they asked i would have given web size images provided credit was duly given (i know they aren't getting rich) I had shot them on a mdeia pass at NXNE music fest at an outdoor event open to the public
They responded by telling me i had no right to use any images of them as i had not asked to take their picture. I told them to get stuffed. I didn't use their images as the people i shot for decided not to review them flip side if someone asks to buy a pic for an article of course i'll sell it to them. but not a chance i'd give a freebies to this band after the bullshit attitude i got from them. Funnily enough i actually liked them before this and had paid to see them on a couple of occasions sans camera.
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

chris | onelouderphoto.com says:

Hehe.

Even though I've heard it before here, Roger's "what did they drive to the show?" test hasn't gotten old for me.
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

IrisSilverMoon    says:

i work occasionally witha local promoter here who seems to have a hard time understanding the concept of "paying for services".

Last event i did for him he asked after the photos were back if I could give him a CD of higher res images without my watermark and would it be a problem if i stuck his watermark on them instead?

i let him know if he wanted to discuss purchasing the rights to the photos he was welcome to do that, but no freebies! he's cheap enough as is. He quickly let me know he couldn't afford it.

Someone else asked me to do shots of artists at decibel festival using their product for their website when i told them i'd need to charge he was like, "oh, i thought this would be kind of a homie hook up deal." How is it a deal to me if you make money off shots i took of your product?

I think people just don't realise the hours and money that gets put into photography. I mean, you already have the equipment right? And no one things about how long you spent sorting through and editing the shots you took. It doesn't take a lot of time doing freebies to realise that you are just starting to feel kind of used.
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

gig-shots.com    says:

Yep, feeling very hacked off for similar reasons at the moment

I've just pulled out of a gig I was going to photograph in Manchester (UK) tonight because the PR wanted to be able to use any of the photographs I took for free.  I'm used to the smaller unsigned bands not having any money but this particular artist is signed to one of the major labels and yet they still have no budget for tour marketing?

I offered free web resolution images for use on myspace/facebook etc., even went as far as saying if they did want to licence any of my shots afterwards I'd give them a 2 for 1 deal (I really wanted to photograph this particular artist so was willing to compromise a bit), but no, it was free use of the photographs for promoting the tour or nothing.

Do they really expect us to believe that an artist that has had two top ten chart hits, is playing a tour of 20 venues that are about 1000 capacity each at £8 a ticket can't afford to licence photography for flyers?

To be honest, I'm kicking myself because the issue only came up when I asked if there were any releases to sign. If I hadn't raised it, it probably wouldn't have been mentioned and I would have been shooting tonight, doh!

--
Mike | gig-shots
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

jxe520    says:

I walked away from photographing Carole King a few years ago.

She's got one of the best selling albums and has written some of the most popular songs in popular music history. She isn't short of a bob or two. She can easily afford to pay for someone's photos if she she something she likes and wants to use. She shouldn't be making photographers sign a contract saying that they will provide copies of all photos taken for her to use as she wants for free.

Have we got any advance on Carole King?
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

Brutal Cabbage says:

The question I put to people is.
Would you love your job is you were doing it for free?



No.Thought that.
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

Ramsey // www.shoottothrill.co.uk says:

Brutal: Actually, i still would, but free doesn't pay the bills!
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

Margaret-10 Images    says:

For better or worse, there will always be people doing it "for the love" or to "get experience" (I'll admit that I'm one of em... wife tells people that I'm a photog who pays the bills by practicing law). Further, the rapid rise of dSLR's and their diminishing cost has flooded the market with shooters.

As such, there will always be someone willing to do a given shoot for free or really cheaply. This then gets priced into the market and affects all shooters (wedding, stock, portraiture, concert, etc.).

There are basically only two ways to escape the masses and make a decent living doing it.... marketing and/or quality. Can't say which will make you more successful, but I know which I'd rather have.
Originally posted 43 months ago. (permalink)
Margaret-10 Images edited this topic 43 months ago.

'ju:femaiz    says:

@: if you're doing it for free I would question whether it's a job anymore.
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

Black Shadow Photography says:

This thread raises the question - do porn stars do it for love?
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

Courtney Coles says:

@ black shadow; sometimes. other times its for the exposure
;]
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

spacehindu    says:

back to the original topic, lets ask the bands were they work for their day job and go get some free stuff.
I shot a band that happens to have a very famous TV/Movie actor for a drummer (its in my stream if you care ) who wanted my pics, i sent them back a request for what they would use them for with rates to follow, and of course i get the response of "rates?"
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

MartyMoffatt says:

I do weddings because I enjoy it and because I genuinely think it makes me a better concert photographer, and vice versa. Both forms of photography require similar skills to capture 'the moment' quickly and under difficult lighting, and both are of people who are on show and want to look their best in the image.

However, weddings pay cash, and that pays for my equipment. Concerts rarely result in cash, but do have a lot of fringe benefits. I only shoot bands I like and would be happy to pay to see even if I wasn't shooting. But by working wth the band, even if it means letting them use the images for free, I get free entry to the gigs, I get to hang with the band backstage, I get to roam all over the venue all through the show taking pictures, I get freebies like t-shirts and CDs and I get the satisfaction of knowing that my images are being seen by thousands of people, either on my website or the band's. Much of this is priceless to me and enhances my enjoyment of the shows. It's certainly worth more to me than just a few coins in the back pocket.
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

Ben Yacobi    says:

Levi do a gig night in London. The marketing manager was actaully a friend of a friend and met her a couple of times and got on quite well. But still told me if I wanted to shoot at their gig night they would expect full rights of the photos for free. So, in theory, they could use one of my images in every Levi store in the world - for nothing!

When I told her she was ripping photographers off her response was that someone would be willing to do it in order to expand their portfolio.

I haven't spoken to her since.
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

Martin McNeil Photography [deleted] says:

Oh, yeah - folk who are looking to use a photographers work hear them say "I do it for the love of it" but, in their heads, it translates to "there's a sucker born every minute"

The default response to a request from anyone when they ask you to work for "free" should be something along these lines (Writer Harlan Ellison speaks his mind)
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

perole    says:

jxe520 - I walked away from a Rolling Stones concert for the same reason, and they also have a few dollars among them. But maybe that's the reason, trying to cheat everyone else?
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)

soundman2006    says:

When I see photographers wanting to rip off the Stones, I say NO Photog! The Rolling Stones were born poor and will always be poor! (C) The Self Righteous Brothers.
Posted 43 months ago. (permalink)