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Go Matt!!
Posted 21 months ago.
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I hate pretentious bands!
Posted 21 months ago.
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What in the world? That is so bizarre. You'd think he'd have something better to lament to his fans about...
Was there a specific interaction that happened between he and the other 'tog or was this just all random?
Posted 21 months ago.
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Mr E moved to the piano, Steve was shooting him from infront of stage but to the side so the seated patrons weren't bothered, like he's done a hundred times before.
Mr E (my view) was pulling some kind of face but I couldn't make it out, I figured he was playing to the camera.
Steve came up and told me he got a bit of a death stare. I caught a bit of it on camera but not with steve in frame, as I was trying to get a shot of E actually looking towards the damn crowd AND without a shadow cast over his face from the brim of his cap. After that we only had a few seconds before E was blabbering about us photographers and we had guards around us.
Steve did nothing wrong, and I am a fucking harsh judge.
Originally posted 21 months ago.
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letsmakeart edited this topic 21 months ago.
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@RIOT: that's more than pretentious. that's just plain mean and over-the-top.
What is the deal with bands? Of all the problems they face, it's photographers
Please do just run a picture of the top of his head and instead of reviewing the show, comment on his outrageousness and meanness and your disillusionment to ever contribute to that aholes livelihood again.
What an ignorant, arrogant dipsh*t [sorry for my language, to me, it fits], who must think that being able to use a microwave and turn on a stove makes one a chef, as that is how moronic his and other "artists" - aholes - treat photography and the press.
Posted 21 months ago.
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Well i wrote to the publisher and said I am prepared to furfil the obligations under which I was sent to the gig by providing the limited photos I could take before being thrown out. But I heavily recommended we run a photo of his guitarist and thats it. And if we need to be diplomatic and kiss some ass while doing it, then to write that the photo was chosen as a personal request of Mr E's.
Btw i didn't review, and for those that weren't kicked out it may well have been a good show. I wouldn't polute the work of a reviewer by hijacking that but I certainly think we need to withhold on the photography.
Originally posted 21 months ago.
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letsmakeart edited this topic 21 months ago.
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I hate the way that bands treat photographers. Im mean whats all this "2/3 songs only" crap about!
I recently shot three bands:
Reel Big Fish
Anti-flag
Stiff Little Fingers
Reel big fish were really nice, no problems.
Anti-flag, happily played up for the cameras.
Stiff Little Fingers, first two songs and thats it!
There was only my mate Andy and myself shooting the bands, he was using flash and i wasnt.
How can some bands love photographers, others dont mind them and then some who treat them like shit!
Mike
Posted 21 months ago.
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Well I know some bands have shit experiences with photographers too, I understand that, I understand that shooters may shit them sometimes.
But when you're as big as the Eels and have been around that long, there should be some refinement with how they deal people, especially those that are there to promote them.
Posted 21 months ago.
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@letsmakeart:
bands have shit experiences with photographers ... I'd like to know what examples you know of this with concert photographers.
I want to keep track of them ... mainly to show how rediculously low they are.
I only know of two examples [with one to me hardly being an example], one had to do with photographers violating Kieth Jarret's request for no flash photography [he got irate of flashed going off from the pit] and one with crowded house being upset with a photo printed from a gig in the newspaper, a close up which they didn't like cause it showed their wrinkles, nose hair, something like that.
Btw, the photographer wasn't trying to be mean and apparently newspapers aren't allowed to do touch ups. Also, if you only allow photogs to shoot from the pit for three sounds, that close ups are one of the only few shots they will get ... dumbasses.
To associate paparazzi photogs with concert photographers is like associating the 15 year old "cook" who spits in your food at burger hut with actual chefs.
Originally posted 21 months ago.
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Rock Photo Star edited this topic 21 months ago.
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I did the Eels thing too and luckily he didn't say anything about me or the other guy sitting at my table. When I got to the venue I was told I would have a pass, had the email to confirm it, etc. I asked the man at the door where my pass was and he said "there is absolutely NO photography tonight!"
I thought I'd try anyway and I was able to shoot the entire show...not that there was much to shoot...
But seriously what an asshole!
Originally posted 21 months ago.
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Leia Jospe edited this topic 21 months ago.
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newspapers can do touch ups, they just cant alter the nature/content of a photo. But they can sharpen, fix colours etc. Editing wrinkles and nose hair though would be against normal newspaper policy.
And I agree, we get lumped with the rep of all photographers, bands need to learn the damn difference.
And there are plenty of shite concert photographers, just as there are shite bands. Shite people tend to do shite things.
I said shite a lot.
Posted 21 months ago.
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I mainly do photos for small indie bands so Ive not had any problems of yet, all they want is to get promoted in some way.
I only had a small problem with a fellow photographer when taking photos of Jesus and Mary Chain at Connect last year, although security let me in, the photographer stopped me and asked who Im taking photos for, then he asked if he could see my camera, it was all good though and I snapped away afterwards.
I had a Nikon Coolpix 8800 back in those days.
Posted 21 months ago.
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I shot Mr E about 2 weeks ago, and the requirements were that I had to shoot from the back of the venue, couldn't move, 3 songs, no flash. This would've been okay with me had I known in advance...I have never had to shoot from the back of that venue before (there is never a real pit).
So, E comes on wearing a hat, sits down in a chair under a weak spotlight and I start shooting (I was the only photog, btw), only to have people constantly walking in front of me, as that path is the only way to get from the entrance to any seats. I could've shot 5 photos and left, really, because he just sat there the whole time, other than playing the piano with his back to us for the second song. I was so aggravated that I didn't even bother to stick around. On top of that, I didn't even get the awesome photo pass that others have had (I didn't have one at all)...I think that pissed me off the most! :P
I gave the mag one shot to use, and was totally embarrassed to even give that to them since it was garbage. It was definitely the most challenging show I've shot.
Originally posted 21 months ago.
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Carrie Musgrave | Livebabylive.com edited this topic 21 months ago.
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Mr. E???? you mean Mr. A.
Posted 21 months ago.
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This is an interesting thread...it's pretty obvious that this guy had no real reason to be such a dick but..as far as bands having beefs with photographers...I have to be honest, I shoot a lot of club shows where there are people in the pit with a camera (I refuse to call them photographers) who have no business being there, are using direct flash and getting up directly in the performers FACE with it, and showing NO respect or professionalism at all. So, unfortunately, sometimes the rest of us will take the fall for experiences like this even if we do act professional and do right by the performer.
The last time I shot this one particular band, I was framing my shot, ready to take the picture and this girl came, SAT ON THE STAGE two inches in front of me totally blocking my shot..the artist was standing pretty close to the end of the stage reaching out with his face down, she pointed the camera upwards towards his face, full flash, and shot away.....
So while it seems that the artist in the case had no real reason to be the prick that he was, it's not hard to understand why performers are sometimes left with a bad taste in their mouths over photographers.
I understand that we all had to learn somehow and perhaps these people are in the beginning stages HOWEVER even when I was a newbie I still had respect for other photographers and most importantly the artist.
While most of us can easily stand in a pit and get a good feeling about the photographers around us, band's don't really have this luxury so it's usually love us or hate us...and expecially these days, everyone that buys an SLR camera coins themselves a photographer and thinks it is their god given right to be in the pit shooting away. I'm not an elitist by any means but I do think that if you are new to the game you should show a bit of respect to the band/musician you are shooting as well as the photographers around you...learn from them. My biggest source of inspiration when I started was talking to and getting tips from other photographers, not trying to steal their shot and flash out the artist. I'm still that annoying person in the pit who wants to chat up every photographer just because I do think we are a small intimate community and we should support each other...if only we could weed out the bad eggs (Insert Veruca Salt falling down the shaft sound effect here).
Posted 21 months ago.
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There's nothing elitist about finding it objectionable at having a flash fired off within 2, 3, 4, etc. feet from one's face.
There's something selfish and thoughtless that one thinks that because they can't afford faster glass or equipment for nonflash technique ... that everyone else is suppose to deal with having a flash fired off in there face while they are performing.
P.S. I've seen this happen to, but 90% of the time it's fans and there point and shoots.
Originally posted 21 months ago.
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Rock Photo Star edited this topic 21 months ago.
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Didn't I tell you?
I wrote an article on the EELS showing their (brilliant) photopass instead of the pictures, just because of such a ridiculous policy.
Back next to the mixer, the guy didn't even want me to shoot the set-list!!!
ciao
Vale
liveon35mm
Posted 21 months ago.
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@ Carrie
That is exactly what happened to me, that is why I moved back to reportage and published an article about their crew, their mixer, their audience, not the band.
WHich is always an option which such photophobic acts.
ciao
Vale
liveon35mm
Posted 21 months ago.
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ShallowDepth [deleted] says:
WOW! that's unbelievable!
Posted 21 months ago.
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Like i said people. Remember this and get into positions of influence with zines and elsewhere so the day will come - and it is coming, there are so many entertainment and band choices now - that if you got decent traffic, you are the one in power and can start demanding payment to cover or even publish the press releases and news of the record companies and bands.
It's absolutely deserved to say ... well, if you are not going to show courtesy and give access to us, then we are not going to give your news and press releases and announcements courtesy and access. You don't appreciate the work and free publicity we give you ... great, go do it yourself or rather, go die in some hole ... we will glady publicize that.
Posted 21 months ago.
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@liveon35mm: after reading about Mr. A's sad tragedy ... you would think he would learn kindness and compassion from it. Now I'm thinking it's deserved karma.
Posted 21 months ago.
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Thanks for filling me in mate. I have a photographer lined up for his Sydney Enmore gig in a few days time, and I will get him to have a read of this.
Posted 21 months ago.
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E's first album rocked and this will remain in my CD collection until the day I die. But all that came after that (especially the last one, a double CD) s*ucked *ss
So being famous DOES change people...
Posted 21 months ago.
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Honestly, it wasn't the end of the world or anything...I've shot soundboard before, and totally understand why that was the case for this show. I was explicitly told not to go beyond the back row of seats, and I respect that he'd not want photographers at the front blocking/distracting seated fans.
I didn't get the bad treatment that others have mentioned, it was just a sucky, frustrating situation, and I came away from it with a mental note not to ever bother shooting him again. Had I been also writing a review, I wouldn't have let my shooting experience affect what I wrote, because that's technically not part of the show.
Posted 21 months ago.
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You know what Carrie?
that if we were informed in advance of such a procedure, we could have opted to stay at home.
I don't argue about any policy, if a band doesn't want photographers, that is absolutely fine to me...since I often travel cambridge to london for a gig (which means time and money) it will be great to know in advance if we are in the condition to work, in order to choose, nothing more, really.
no drama, just the same resect bands always pretend from us.
EELS gig was quite good, was near to home, I managed to stay in and watch it so I was happy for everything but for the pics.
ciao
Vale
liveon35mm
Posted 21 months ago.
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^^ I totally agree about the advanced notice.
Posted 21 months ago.
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So, there are jerk photographers and jerk musicians and jerk PR/management folks, right? Presumably, the non-jerks are the rule, rather than the exception, so wouldn't you start out being cool and only get indignant if a photographer was a jerk?
Just because some PR people are jerks, you wouldn't start a pass request off as if you already knew they were.
I'd say the behavior that the singer apparently showed is bizarre, but I'm not surprised because people, in general, often don't behave in a rational way.
Originally posted 21 months ago.
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fordprefectajt edited this topic 21 months ago.
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Who the f--k are the Eels? Nevermind. If the guys are this big a pain for photogs, I could care less. I'll listen to, (and shoot,) someone else.
Great article liveon, but why did the Eels photo pass have a picture of Wham?
Originally posted 21 months ago.
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M Styborski edited this topic 21 months ago.
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Yeah really, who the hell are the Eels? haha. No seriously, who are they? :)
Posted 21 months ago.
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Bryan: Yes, who are they and any musical artist to have an attitude ... the inventor of the polio vaccine which has saved untold millions of lives?
The inventor of the microchip which is the foundation of all the technological advancements in the last 50 years?
The founder of schools or hospitals or a company.
P.S. The real joke is how people might know the eels but not who created the polio vaccine [Jonathan Salk], the integrated circuit [Jack Kilby and/or Robert Noyce]; the first computer [Alan Turing, father of computer science and the decoding machine used in WWII]; etc.; etc.
Originally posted 21 months ago.
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Rock Photo Star edited this topic 21 months ago.
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I got to shoot them twice in Paris and like everywgere else it was only E and The Chet on stage.
Was warned before the first show I'd have to stay at the back of the venue because it was an intimate show and the band didn't want to hear the noise of the cameras.
For the second show I wasn't warned but I was prepared to it.
For both shows I could shoot the whole set and indeed it was a challenging thing to do but I could take advantage of the balconies and stuff so in the nd it wasn't too bad.
I wasn't particularly shocked by the band asking us photographers to stay at the back as it was indeed an intimate and quiet show, and indeed cameras are quite noisy so I can understand Mr E being annoyed by that random sound when playing the piano only.
And I got the nice photopass for both shows as well which was cool :)
Posted 21 months ago.
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Hell, my bands get photographed all the time. My only gripe with the shooters is that they never send us the shots to check out!
Posted 21 months ago.
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@ M_Styborski
thanks! I guess it is their Joke for some reason they put the Wham on it...it was the only funny thing of that night.
by the way you should check them, some of their music is great, if you are not too depressed!
ciao
Vale
liveon35mm
Posted 21 months ago.
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aaah fuck, cheers for the heads up. Looks like the Enmore in Sydney on Sunday is going to be a riot to shoot them :(
Posted 21 months ago.
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its going to take me a while to disassociate their music with that shit experience but ahh well. It's a new day today. I'm still going to tell him off though when i find the right contacts.
Posted 21 months ago.
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One of only a few useable shots... Damn I wish I had a 200mm f/1.4 or something crazy like that!
No rants at the shooters btw - although I wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't see us - we were behind the first exit signs...
Posted 21 months ago.
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I got useable shots I just would prefer not to run them since he was being a spoilt brat. Sadly the publisher has agreed that what happened sucks but would like what photos I can muster.
Originally posted 21 months ago.
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letsmakeart edited this topic 21 months ago.
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Your review nails it:
While I was enjoying the gig, cameras in the bag, I noticed all the wannabe photographers in the audience with their mobile, digital point and shot that kept flashing towards the stage during the entire set.
I wondered if Mr E and his friend were distressed. I thought at the managers belief that professional photographers disturb the band.
Indeed we do, with our 10 minutes slot without flash, but we would disturb more if we stop photographing and live music pictures disappears from reviews, wouldn’t we?
Posted 21 months ago.
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off topic: how do you put the flickr user icon thingie in a comment?
Posted 21 months ago.
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Thanks agentdeclan!
goodnight
Vale
liveon35mm
Posted 21 months ago.
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Why would bands (management, PR..) hand out press passes, when they have no intention on letting photographers shoot the gig, or make it so difficult that they can't get decent pics?
Posted 21 months ago.
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That is a very good question.
HOpe someone has a good answer!
liveon35mm
Posted 21 months ago.
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@ : Because the artists are precious little performers who change their mind at the last minute methinks. Think about their demands - they can be absolutely idiotic with them!
@: I agree - the number of flashes went off (hell - the Enmore gig was a sit down affair!) from the P+S crowds must have been killing E (and every other artist).
Posted 21 months ago.
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