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I've noticed that too!!! What's up with that? I'm not surprised you were able to predict so many!
Posted 41 months ago.
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I´ve noticed this too. It´s really rather depressing for the rest of us. And while some of the photos ARE very good, a lot of them are not. Just what is Explore up to?
Posted 41 months ago.
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Conspiracy!
Posted 41 months ago.
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waaaaah! its not fair!!!
Posted 41 months ago.
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Well, you know, once you get the attention of the magic donkey for some time it goes like a snowball.
This guy for example, with the 365 project and a flickr love story (Im very bad with names), he is in explore since like months. I mean - the photos are creative, funny and everything, but man give other people a chance.
It is obviously not his fault, its just the explore algorithm need some changes. After all it is supposed to show the most interesting stuff, and not be a feed for new pics of the same people, no matter how good they are.
Posted 41 months ago.
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You want to get to explore?
Get a 10mm lens, shoot a hdr or long exposure sunset, add it to a couple of groups (you know the ones I mean) and you are there.
Funny shots of a baby works fine too.
Oh, and I forgot about kittens; kittens are the real deal for this matters.
Posted 41 months ago.
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I've noticed that there are loads of people with photos of birds (the flying kind!) in explore lately too.
Posted 41 months ago.
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If more people gave the Magic Donkey carrots there would be greater variety.
Posted 41 months ago.
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I have noticed it to. they are all part of a private group, commenting and faving on each others pictures. Some of my best contacts are involved in it, which has really disappointed me. My latest post explains what's going on in more detail. www.flickr.com/photos/daruma/3221618523/
I don't really mind if other people dominate but I do dislike deception.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Mukumbura Do you really care? I've never even looked at (in?) Explore.
Take the best pictures you can and have fun with your friends and contacts. Isn't that why we are here? And if others like what you are doing it's a bonus, but not something to chase.
Originally posted 41 months ago.
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cowgirl_dk edited this topic 41 months ago.
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It's worth keeping in mind. What I've seen is that once one of my photos gets on explore it gets a lot more views (after the fact), and the effect (for that picture) lasts for as long as a week. I haven't found any shortcuts for getting on explore other than taking interesting pictures. That said, some of the pictures I find the most interesting have come nowhere near explore.
Posted 41 months ago.
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I've noticed it. Doesn't bother me as far as I feel like I should be in it, lol, but, I do like to look through Explore. I like to see what's being uploaded, maybe learn about people I hadn't come across before, see variety, etc......and I haven't seen much of that in several months. It's been the same old, same old. I think it's just time to alter the algorithm. Not so much to "give people a chance", as someone mentioned...but, to give it back some of its unpredictability.
**and before anyone piles on and suggests there's other ways to see what's out there on flickr, yes, thank you, I realize this. But surfing Explore is also one of those methods that I like as well. ;)
Originally posted 41 months ago.
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~carie~ edited this topic 41 months ago.
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My photos seemed to magically disappear from Explore about ten months ago, my most recent photo in there was posted on March 2008, and since then absolutely nothing...
On the flip side, one of my contacts has at least half of his photostream somewhere in Explore, with many front pages amongst... Now his photography is very good, but...
Still doesn't change what I do, I just enjoy photography, going out and finding and capturing interesting images...
Posted 41 months ago.
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If you don't like what you see in Explore don't look at it. There are other ways of seeing interesting pictures on Flickr.
Posted 41 months ago.
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I'm not sure it's necessarily a conspiracy; it's just self-reinforcing.If you get in explore, then you're more likely to get views and comments and favourites on your other photos, which always contributes to interestingness.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Explore really is getting blander and blander, there seems to be only one style of photography represented. I used to find the occasional interesting photo, there is no variety left at all. Everything is in your face, there's no subtlety, everything screams from the screen.
Originally posted 41 months ago.
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_barb_ edited this topic 41 months ago.
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I looked today for the first time in over a year..
What a pile of bland, ho-hum, why would you take a pic of this, stuff.
Be glad you have nothing up there.
Posted 41 months ago.
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e-person.ipernity.com [deleted] says:
Although it is certainly a conspiracy, the real point should be: does it matter?
Please convince me of the need to be on the explore page.
Two years ago I used to be there every other day. Now I don't (I deleted my photos few months ago). In retrospect it was a childish game. Not even worth thinking about it.
I have put my efforts in creating professional photos and I made a few thousands dollars out of it, which sounds better than Explore to me. But of course I might be wrong and maybe people pay their bills using Explore Money...
Posted 41 months ago.
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Me too Sherlock77. I think it's because you are now partly in competion with yourself, and each new picture you post is rated against pictures you have posted before. I used to spend time posting my pictures to award groups and discussions to try to get lots of comments and views. And so I have a few pictures with 500+ views and 40+ comments. But now that I don't pimp my new pictures all over town it means that none of them are deemed interesting, because they have far fewer views and comments.
I also think there is some time measurement thing going on, so if you post your pictures to ten groups at the same time and all your comments and views come at the same time, the picture gets a higher interesting rating.
The result of these changes to the interestingness algorythm have meant that Explore has been full of rubbishy shots for a while. But it doesn't surprise me that a group of people have formed a mutual backscratching group to help get their shots into Explore. If I had any flickr friends I might have thought of doing that too!
Posted 41 months ago.
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pnuno [deleted] says:
when i joined flickr i used to look a lot on explore and look for photos and inspiration, but today it seems its always the same people and many of them create the photos in photoshop. That is not photography, that is graphic design or whatever.
(all due respect to the people who are good with photoshop, they are good at what they do, but I'd rather go with a great black & white photo, than a image created with photoshop, even if it was more amazing - any day! )
Today I look much more into the streams of my contacts and comment on the photos I like.
The only good thing about explore is the exposure your work gets from many views. If you take photos primarily for other people approval, then fine - that's what people in explore do.
whatever sails your boat.
Otherwise just ignore explore all together, have fun with photography, learn about it, share your work with your contacts, exchange ideas, create friendship.
Posted 41 months ago.
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I've only had 5 photos end up in Exlore, but they dropped pretty quickly. The positions were pretty low (between the 300's & 400's) and were out in like a day. anyone know why they drop so quick?
Posted 41 months ago.
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Hello...Thank you for posting this topic. I have been a member of flickr for almost a year now...I have met some really wonderful people who I call my friends. I really enjoy looking at their photos and commenting. I must admit, I was wondering for a while now, why I have never at least had one of my images in Explore. I have just recently started in the art of photography, and I realize I have a long way to go. But I also think a few of my photos are pretty good. Not outstanding by any means. After having looked at some of the stuff in Explore I thought jeez...what does one have to do to make it there?
Anyhow...after reading all of this info this morning, I understand. I won't give it another thought again. I will continue to enjoy the kind people here and viewing their work...That makes me happy and is enough for me!!! Thank you Tom (daruma* ) for all of the info :))
Posted 41 months ago.
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Regardless of whether one thinks "Explore" is important or not, the point raised by the O.P. is an interesting one. Have a small group of members banded together to dominate "Explore". It seems likely. It can be done quite easily.
Some time ago a group I belong to decided to attempt something similar. The idea with us was to see if we could get some really crappy shots into explore. To cut a long story short, we succeeded. This was just a bit of fun and only lasted a day or so, no attempt to dominate for weeks on end.
Perhaps it's time for some surgery on the donkey.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Maybe it's time for a new donkey
Posted 41 months ago.
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I think it's time for the Panda.
You are invited to become an acolyte at
Secrets Of Explore!
Learn the mystical truth behind Interestingness,
and behold the algorithm of the Magic Donkey...
Posted 41 months ago.
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Anyone else noticing a pattern?
No, since I seldom look at Explore nowadays.
Posted 41 months ago.
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I agree with e-person.
The most important thing on flickr is to see how others react to your work. After that is up to you to get some good prints of the photos you like and start doing some real expositions. Try to sell your work.
Try to have fun with it.
Posted 41 months ago.
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meh
Posted 41 months ago.
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It is all a part of Project Mayhem...
Posted 41 months ago.
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That's why Explore is such a joke. I've never had one photo get on there.
ChrisG
Posted 41 months ago.
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That's why Explore is such a joke. I've never had one photo get on there.
Hahahaha!! What excellent logic.
Posted 41 months ago.
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It's funny how everyone turns this into a "Explore is stupid. Why do you care to be in it?" discussion, when this wasn't one of the typical "Why aren't I in Explore posts?" The OP was about Explore getting redundant, and lacking variety. Nowhere does the OP say he wants to know why HE's not in Explore. Yet everyone again turns this into a lecture of how they're better than Explore, don't care to be in it anyway, blah, blah, blah.
Explore isn't the end-all/be-all of ways to discover what's on Flickr, but it is one of several that can be interesting, to some. I still think it'd be cool if they looked at the algorithm, so that it can get out of it's rut, and show more variety.
Posted 41 months ago.
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The 1st rule of Explore:
You don't talk about Explore
Posted 41 months ago.
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Thank you carie~ellen For getting this post back on track.
Posted 41 months ago.
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I do think has hit the nail on the there but then again the 2nd rule of explore is you don't talk about explore!
Posted 41 months ago.
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Who made that rule!
Posted 41 months ago.
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@daisybaxter--Rangefinder made up that rule. Just before you posted. ;)
I find explore interesting after a major news event, too.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Going back to the OP's observation, and the detailed explanation on this picture, you'll see exactly what we're talking about here. Everyone of the pictures you can see in the screen shot of last night's top 8 in Explore is from the private group that uses the Πsymbol.
Posted 41 months ago.
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carie~ellen is absolutely right that this is not a 'Why aren't I in Explore?' whinge! I've had 150 photos in Explore for some reason, but I do look at Explore a lot, mainly for ideas and inspiration and in the last 6 weeks this small PRIVATE GROUP has effectively taken over Explore with what appears at best to be a mutual faving system. One photo I looked at this morning had over 40 faves from members of the group and that person appears to have faved 40 other photos within the group.
The really striking thing about this group was that after comment was made about their activities 10 days ago, the group underwent several changes of name. One member of the group told me that this had been done by the Group's Admins "in order to better hide our activities".
This does raise a very serious question for the people who run Flickr. I would suggest that Flickr need to consider whether to somehow bar photos posted in private groups from Explore, sad though that would be for the vast majority of private groups that I'm sure behave impeccably. That or The Donkey needs to be sent on a better Pattern Spotting Course!
BTW, Daruma has just posted above a classic example of what this thread is about - take a look at that screenshot, because you'll be seeing more of the same unless something changes quickly.
This group are not the only ones running a similar system, but they are far and away the most successful at it. At the beginning of January they occupied about 20% of all the top slots in Explore; that has already risen to more than 50% and that applies at almost any time of day that you care to look - the only exception was the day after President Obama's inauguration!
The 'Interesting' thing about Explore has always been its apparent randomness, but that has recently been thrown out the window making it, to coin a FlickrPhrase, decidedly Uninteresting.
I hope that Flickr staff will take a close look at what has been going on. Enough people have tried to tell them already.
Now, I'm off to take some photographs. Hopefully I'll find something Interesting for you :-)
Posted 41 months ago.
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I don't mind if people play explore and get photos in, what I do mind is that seems to result in a loss of diversity of styles and makes for very boring viewing of the explore pages.
I'd love to see a greater variety of styles and images reflecting the wide variety of photography that I find everywhere else on flickr, explore should be a reflection of the diversity that makes the artistic community here. It's kind of sad to see a photographic world there that consists only of superslick, clicheed, manipulated and somewhat soulless images.
It's like looking through the folios of an advertising agency, I mean if I wanted to see that I'd flick through a glossy lifestyle magazine and look at their ads.
Originally posted 41 months ago.
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_barb_ edited this topic 41 months ago.
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Maybe the algorithm has hit some kind of internal flaw. Maybe the people has worked out how to game it. Maybe it's time to teach the Magic Donkey a new trick.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Rob may be right. Perhaps people have worked out how to game Explore. Time for another algorithm shift, perhaps?
Posted 41 months ago.
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Of course, one assumption here is that Explore has become less interesting over the last two months.
Posted 41 months ago.
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i like flickr. i like exploring explore. i like my pictures to be included if they're interesting enough.
i don't like to see this mechanism become skewed just because a small group wants it to be.
explore's broken. flickr has to fix it.
Posted 41 months ago.
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I've been on Flickr for two years and only three photos have made explore. I would not rank any of those three in my best photos. Well to be honest, I'm just a hack anyway so I don't have a lot of great photos. However, there is one photo that made explore that I thought was pretty much crap.
I do know that a lot of the people who dominate Explore are part of the 365 Days project. This project is a very social group. They do comment and favorite a lot of each other's photos. I'm not sure this qualifies as a conspiracy, but it does explain why they make the list frequently.
Any socially active group could achieve the same results.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Of course once the algorithm changes people then moan because their pictures have dropped out of Explore or no longer get to Explore in the first place. See this thread in the Help Forum to see how weird it can get.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Sounds like Digg! And I am actually surprised that it took this long for people to band together to (intelligently) rigg the system. Kudos to these people.
Someone should do a paper on "gaming Explore." At the least, it would be an interesting research on Flickr's sociology. And at the most, a very interesting economics paper. The Interestingness algorithm is inherently flawed, like nearly all economic models are. And yes, the Interestingness algorithm is an economic model if we are to define economics as the sum of all human action. Flickr economics is the sum of its users' actions and the algorithm is an attempt to model a specific type of behavior and aggregating the results as a list of photos deemed interesting by the community.
Posted 41 months ago.
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I am going to LOL real hard if the secret group's (if there is any) name turned out to be "Explore Cabal."
Posted 41 months ago.
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that's true. it always creates a total nightmare help forum for all the whiners who think they deserve to be there, why aren't they anymore, Flickr is broken, or there's a conspiracy to keep them out, etc., etc., etc.
The 365, FGR projects etc. are in explore a lot. But, they're creative photos, they get a lot of views. I don't think of any of those people/groups as "gaming" Explore. And I know that's not their goal either. It's just a side-effect. They really can't be lumped in with groups like the one mentioned above. What is their name again?
As for the other group mentioned, the one that does seem to be intentionally gaming it, that's rather silly to be that obsessed with it to make it your mission.
Posted 41 months ago.
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I think the one thing that's important here is that the group is private. The photographers involved are, on the whole (imho) very good and I often fave their work. The problem is that by being private they avoid the watching eye of the old Magic Donkey and thus they get around the infamous algorithm. Images placed in public groups that require people to fave/comment on X images to the left etc get penalised. So make the group public and then leave it to the system to balance it all out. And then we can get on with the important things in life and the original reason why we all joined Explore, which for me was to enjoy the friendships, to be inspired and to learn - which, on the whole, is still what I get out of it.
Incidentally - and ironically - the picture that described the situation is (at the time of writing) on the <Interestingness Page...
The current name of the group is "ExCa - 4° Contest - VOTE !!! " and its address is flickr.com/groups/901746@N20. According to the page referrals on my sot from yesterday there is a discussion going on about this issue within the group at flickr.com/groups/901746@N20/discuss/72157612388817648. Obviously we can't follow the links through as it's a private group.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Maybe some people are just very good at generating "interest" on their streams. I was in the Top 40 today. :D
Posted 41 months ago.
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Posted 41 months ago.
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What gets me even more are the posted screen shots of the
FP photos.
Posted 41 months ago.
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i think its pretty sad people feel the need to raise their self esteem by gaming the Donkey...they could probably better spend their time by taking better shots
Posted 41 months ago.
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Just to prove how much influence they now have, the members of ExCa managed to get a picture of "Mr ExCa" not only onto the Front Page today but onto the Interestingness Page as well.
A number of people's points about the group proven methinks.
Explore is clearly now a complete farce :-((
Posted 41 months ago.
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Explore is clearly now a complete farce :-((
You didn't need to add the "now" there. It is a farce every time someone disagrees with how it behaves, this is how it has always been.
Posted 41 months ago.
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460 places are still remaining for the other photographers.
Posted 41 months ago.
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"Explore is clearly now a complete farce :-(( "
Also, Fexplore is clearly now a complete arse.
FEXplore! ARSE! GIRLS! DRINK!
Posted 41 months ago.
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They should replace Explore with a page that just shows random photos uploaded on the day.
Posted 41 months ago.
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@Jim: you can see that at your home page: recent uploads. They are quite random to look at.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Just go take some photos.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Who cares what Explore thinks?
Posted 41 months ago.
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Its a bloody outrage!!!! Hurumph and bah!
Posted 41 months ago.
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Aww. Everyone is so negative about this. Why not treat Explore for what it is? A fun pasttime for some people. A game, even. And it just so happens that some people play the game a little bit better than some.
People attribute undue signifance into the results generated by the algorithm. It is not an objective measure of merit. It has certain rules, certain variables that can be tweaked to achieve a certain result. That is all it is.
Posted 41 months ago.
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There are two types of people on flickr:
1. Those that get on Explore and are quite happy with the algorithm.
2. Those that don't get on Explore, so moan about it all the time.
Posted 41 months ago.
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I'm amazed that Flickr continues to use Explore as their most visible public face when it's filled with such identical crap.
Posted 41 months ago.
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President ARTY, not me, I got 120 photos in explore and moan about it for the reason jakerome mentions.
Posted 41 months ago.
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With all of the injustices in the world and the economy in the Great Depression II, people still bitch about Explore.
Posted 41 months ago.
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With all of the injustices in the world and the economy in the Great Depression II, people still comment about people still bitching about Explore.
FFS.
Posted 41 months ago.
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LOL! Can't agree more! Explore or no Explore who cares!
Originally posted 41 months ago.
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_ARSHIA_ edited this topic 41 months ago.
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Arty> There are two types of people on flickr:
Yes, those two types exist, but are not the only two.
Some people randomly get on explore but rarely look at it, and couldn't care less about the algorithm until they make it personalized.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Hi Jake! Donuts?
I'm really hungry..
Posted 41 months ago.
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Hey GustavoG! Donuts?
I'm really hungry..
Posted 41 months ago.
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There are two types of people on flickr:
1. Those that get on Explore and are quite happy with the algorithm.
2. Those that don't get on Explore, so moan about it all the time.
And then there are those who, when they don't like the way the discussion's going, try to turn the conversation to donuts.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Hey Jim Skea! Donuts?
I'm really hungry..
Ok I'll end on that tasty note. Now go fav Jims photos!
Posted 41 months ago.
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Donuts? Yes yes yes. Keep your eyes open for donuts.
Get ready to make those protest signs, kids!
*hijacks thread*
Posted 41 months ago.
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What about the free beer? When's that happening?
With all of the injustices in the world and the economy in the Great Depression II, people still demand doughnuts and free beer.
Originally posted 41 months ago.
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goneforawander edited this topic 41 months ago.
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Right now, at my place.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Festa brasileira! I'm in.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Wow, you guys are right. I checked the top ten photos in today's explore and they are littered with that private group's logo. It appears they have found an effective way to game the system. The photos themselves aren't bad at all. But if they are using this loophole to get on there, it's like taking performance enhancing drugs to compete at sporting events. Which of course isn't fair to those who are playing by the rules.
Pretty crappy if you ask me.
Originally posted 41 months ago.
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jasohill edited this topic 41 months ago.
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Free beer is coming!
*heads for jimbo's place*
Posted 41 months ago.
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Its ridiculously simple to get on Explore
First, no invites to groups please (they all say no glittery graphics or multiple invites under their shots often)
Second a decent photo that fits the Explore criteria of random interestingness
Third, you have to spend a lot of time commenting on other people's photos in order for them to comment on yours (hours and hours)
Note, if you have made it to Explore without many comments .. you have done good
All of this is not new.......there are always groups of people who will replace the ones who get tired of what they are doing OR the algorithm changes and they don't pick up on what it is .....
and the pattern repeats........
its really that simple
Originally posted 41 months ago.
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Maureen F. edited this topic 41 months ago.
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[sarcasm]Or, you could try and join the secret Πgroup and cut down on all those wasted hours. [/sarcasm]
Originally posted 41 months ago.
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jasohill edited this topic 41 months ago.
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simplicity is in the eye of the beholder.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Covens of conspirators dastardly scheming to wreak havoc on the land of Flickr and its' innocent denizens. I bet they do it in black hooded cloaks in a dark underground gothic sepulchre with a large pentigram inscribed in the floor too.
Posted 41 months ago.
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does this mean the bokeh-wednesday-women are out of business?
Posted 41 months ago.
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I lov intrigue :-)
....there should be an Explore for treads too...this one deserves it !
Posted 41 months ago.
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:) very funny thread and very funny "strange symbol group", let's make a script for a movie... And I bet ya the movie will be "Explored" :)
Posted 41 months ago.
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Or "ExplŒred"
Posted 41 months ago.
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"explore for threads" is a brilliant idea. kind of like the "best of craigslist".
Posted 41 months ago.
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@Tsjeu: "does this mean the bokeh-wednesday-women are out of business?"
I suspect a lot of them are members of ExCa too ;-)
Posted 41 months ago.
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It will probably end up a movie based on a book by Dan Brown involving a predictable plot along the line of man meets woman, man and woman get chased by bad guys, man and woman defeat bad guys against the odds and have a celebratory shag to top it all of with.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Just the thought of Dan Brown writing about the explore algorithm makes me what to rip my brain out! God imagine the 'Facts' he'd include at the front of the book!
Posted 41 months ago.
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They didn't shag in DavinΠCode. They were too busy pushing each other onto the front page of explore.
Posted 41 months ago.
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Since I first read this I have been looking to see who "first pagers" get comments from...it doesn't seem to matter who is on the first page,everyone that has been on first page everytime they post something knows the person that is now on first page! Hmmmm...
I will probably never be in Explore again but...if that's how the "game" is played,it is really no big deal being there!(How the heck did the few of mine get there in the first place?!) ... as long as my few true Flickr friends enjoy what I post...that's really all that matters.
Originally posted 40 months ago.
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mauntainmaus edited this topic 40 months ago.
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Can somebody please get fingerpointy and link me to the group that is supposedly conspiring to take over Explore by commenting and faving all the work in the group pool?
I imagine that the shots are actually quite interesting and thoroughly deserve to be in the upper echelons.
But perhaps not.
Posted 40 months ago.
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Search for Πin tags. ;) They will reveal themselves.
Posted 40 months ago.
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I thought you just had to take really close up images of flowers.
Seems to work, especially if you call it "on wednesdays I feel angst because my cousin resents me" or similar.
fairly straightforward, eh?
Posted 40 months ago.
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Or a kitten.
Naked.
Photoshopped.
;-)
Posted 40 months ago.
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To add a little science to this - can anyone name any of those that are "the same in the Top 40". We can then monitor their progress.
Posted 40 months ago.
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Mukumbura Do you really care? I've never even looked at (in?) Explore. 
It's worth keeping in mind. What I've seen is that once one of my photos gets on explore it gets a lot more views (after the fact), and the effect (for that picture) lasts for as long as a week. I haven't found any shortcuts for getting on explore other than taking interesting pictures. That said, some of the pictures I find the most interesting have come nowhere near explore.
that's true. it always creates a total nightmare help forum for all the whiners who think they deserve to be there, why aren't they anymore, Flickr is broken, or there's a conspiracy to keep them out, etc., etc., etc. 
LOL! Can't agree more! Explore or no Explore who cares!
What about the free beer? When's that happening?
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