|
Poor Fred. He was outside and not bothering anyone (unless you're a fly). Nice retrospective, though.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
 |
I moved... [deleted] says:
that is a shit load of mess for what looks like a iddy biddy spider!!
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Yucky!
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Juicy.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Totalvoyew [deleted] says:
beautiful
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
That you can end a life - any life - for your entertainment is inexcusable.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Why would you squash a spider? That was living OUTSIDE?!
I hope you get a million black fly bites.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
It's fucking ART
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Shhexy - Your comment is ridiculous.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
@Ben: I hope you walk through a spider web while walking to your car and get a 1-inch spider crawling on your face.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
It's fucking ART
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
who is ART? and why is a squashed spider doing that to him?
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
"But his home was a rope and he should've known.
Everybody's misused him, ripped him up and abused him."
- Curtis Mayfield, Freddie's Dead
Millions of domestic animals never know a kind human touch and live hard lives on the street before dying equally hard deaths.
Others suffer at the hands of an unfit guardian who deprives them of veterinary care and other basic necessities: Social birds are left alone in tiny, barren cages for years as decorations; rabbits, guinea pigs, and hamsters are kept in filthy cages and only paraded out as a source of entertainment now and then; cats are left outside and often become victims of cruel people; dogs are left chained outside or kept in waste-strewn pens with only a metal barrel to protect them from the elements; spiders are photographed then smashed in the name of art.
You should be ashamed.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
3<
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
TrEjAcK - Doing something because it is kind is a concept that is not popular in this group. Given the choice, many people here will always choose to say the most "shocking" thing they can.
"It's fucking ART."
Grow up.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
:'(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
@Spider killer: I've walked through plenty of spider webs and had plenty of spiders crawling on me. Buck up big boy.
Shhexy is right, the web that spider wove was art.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
I either want this thread locked or a box of donuts.
I'll be waiting patiently for your response!
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
TrEjAcK. wrote 3<
Whaz that mean?
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
*bucks up*
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Oh, I thought the you guys were saying the photos were like a FART.
My bad.
3<
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
LOL
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Now that's funny. :-)
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Nothing like a noxious emission to lighten up a thread...
Is that what they call LAUGHING gaS?????????????
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
i agree that killing the spider was not art, don't get me wrong, i'm not some crazy hippie type but killing something just to take a picture is pretty juvenile. how would you like it if someone stomped on your mums head and called it art?
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
zombizi [deleted] says:
These pictures are not art - that would be preposterous...the process, on the other hand clearly is art. The photographs are merely evidence of the art. It's a map/territory kind of thang...
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
zombizi [deleted] says:
As for the mom question - that's the same - if someone squished my mum's head by accident or out of malice, it could not be art - squishing it with the intent of making an artistic statement could be...
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
no donuts and this thread is still going ...
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
*claps*
BRAVE! BRAVO! It is like a play in FC thread form!
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
squishing someone's head with the intention of it being artistic is not an excuse for doing it, if that is what you were implying zombizi, then that is absolutely ludicrous! i can just see it now, "do you plead guilty, not guilty, or art?"
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
ALLZ FAIR in ART and WAR
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Art is not for the squeamish
Originally posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
Jasonaut edited this topic 70 months ago.
|
|
|
So then just kill for the "art" of it?
It's not only entirlely egocentric, it's species-centric.
Humans are so full of sh*t.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
how would you like it if someone stomped on your mums head and called it art?
Wow. Now that's a leap.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I can't believe someone would say such a thing.
My mother doesn't even have a head.
:(
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Sarah - It only sounds like a leap because humans somehow have managed to convince themselves that they are truly different and special.
In addition, we have created a sliding scale of sympathy. The closer the animal seems to us, or the more "cute" we find it, the more we feel for it.
For example, if Squiddyface had said, "How would you like it if someone had stomped on a jellyfish and called it art?" you probably wouldn't have thought it to be too much of a leap.
However, if he said, "How would you like it someone had stomped on a dog's head and called it art?" you might have found that more offensive. If not a dog, then a cat, a bird, a rabbit, or what have you.
The point is that most humans find the death of animals disturbing only in as far as they find that animal warm, cute and loving.
Life is life and death is death, no matter the species.
The analogy was a good one, and no real leap at all. That's my opinion. :-)
Originally posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
Planet Pixel edited this topic 70 months ago.
|
|
It's really a bit like gourmet food.
Art that is.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
thanks planet pixel, i agree completely!
and some people really do stomp on puppies and call it art, there is a growing movement of it at the moment, with equally growing concern from animal rights groups and the media. www.snopes.com/photos/gruesome/crushvideo.asp shows photos of this happening, and it is disgusting.
p.s., why does everyone always think i am a guy? i'm a girl!!!! :P
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
and yes, it is like gourmet food, but im vegetarian :P
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
When spiders are no longer able to be squished for art's sake, the terrorists have won.
Originally posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
Trazy edited this topic 70 months ago.
|
|
|
Y' can still have gourmet food and be vegetarian.
*thinks*
Oh, maybe not, albeit it depends upon what sort of vegetarianism. Many, many people don't consider fish (and sometimes chicken) meat. If it isn't, well then what the fuck is it?
Bit like spider soup really.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
*hopes no one brings up Jill Greenberg*
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
who is jill greenberg?
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
GabrielR [deleted] says:
"mother nature.....is a bitch"
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
GabrielR - Agreed. Mother Nature is one cruel effer.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Poor Fred! Spiders outside of the appartment are very useful because they catch other bad insects. Even though I'm not really a spider-lover i never kill them. Killing a creature without any need and calling this art is pretty kinky in my eyes.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Hey guys, hate to spoil the fun, but:
1) I never called it art.
2) I didn't kill Fred for the sake of art, I killed him because he kept building webs in my walkways & spiders freak me out.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
GabrielR [deleted] says:
What i do is to pick a piece of paper, grab the damn killer monster, and put it in a safe place for me, and for him...or her.
Write it down, you nonhuman piece of crap!! =P
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
why couldnt you have just put him outside? hate to bring the mum thing up again, but if my reason for hypothetically stomping on her earlier was cus she left a few bits of string near my door, i dont think it would make for a very good defence...
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Left in a huff [deleted] says:
I'm agreeing with Planet-Pixel too. Life is worth more than "art", even if it is 'only' a spider.
Spider's like that aren't even a threat.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
If humans aren't truly special then surely being species-centric is the natural way to be. It's only if we were truly special that we'd have any reason for showing empathy to another species.
Incidentally, I personally would have not ever been able to bring myself to squash Fred. I can't even do it to wasps, which I loathe and which all deserve to die horribly.
But come on, it's a spider. I bet virtually all of of you have swatted a fly or two.
Originally posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
-RobW- edited this topic 70 months ago.
|
|
|
where the fuck are the donuts?
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
It might be art cause your cool inner circle thinks its art, but in the general population its considered pointless murder. Art is subjective to the viewer. Whether it is or isn't by popular vote doesn't really matter.
The question should be is art so important living things should die for it?
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
If humans aren't truly special then surely being species-centric is the natural way to be. It's only if we were truly special that we'd have any reason for showing empathy to another species.
If I hadn't been working, I would have said almost that exact same thing. Cheers!
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
3<
jake you murderer
*farts*
Originally posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
o! patric edited this topic 70 months ago.
|
|
ooh. Garden Spiders are so tame you can pick them up and let them crawl around your hands. Their mouth is too small to bite through human skin.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Jake, I don't want the fact that you are murdering bastard to get in the way of our friendship...hey, buddy...next time the donuts are on me....you murdering bastard. *enigma dies laughing*
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Poor Fred..
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
I'm calling up People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and ask them to picket your house for murdering spiders.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
As a side note, all I can think of when I see 3< is an excited, pre-final-op transexual. Which is kinda hot, really.
Maybe that's just me.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Killing an orb weaver is bad luck. Yeah, I've walked into the webs and had the spider crawling on my head, and I tried to put it somewhere safe. (I've also walked into the web and bounced back--orb weavers webs are strong!)
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
did you eat it?
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
GabrielR [deleted] says:
Somebody knows another ANIMAL able to act like a pointless murderer knowing that is possible to not act like one?
Originally posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
GabrielR edited this topic 70 months ago.
|
|
Very Very interesting story there.
MCL
~Saber~
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
"...humans somehow have managed to convince themselves that they are truly different and special."
How are we not? Only humans understand the concept of art, and carry on arguments via the Internet as to what is and isn't art. Doesn't get much more special than that!
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
At least Jill Greenburg would've only made the spider cry...
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I am so glad Planet Pixel was not my daddy.
Because I would have ended up a fucked up kid and hanged myself because I was raised by someone who taught me that I was worthless and equal to a spider.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Jayel - I don't think that life is worthless. If I did, I wouldn't have spoken up for the spider in the first place.
My view is that life - all life - is equal in terms of its value. That we are humans makes us no more special than any other species. That you see it that way has everything to do with you being human.
That I see all life as equal does not mean I find it worthless. True, I don't believe there is any inherent "value" to life. I believe that as a living being you "chose" to value life and live with integrity and grace.
And one day, when I have children, I will do just fine raising them. They will value all life and do their best to treat others in a kind and loving manner.
Cheers.
Originally posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
Planet Pixel edited this topic 70 months ago.
|
|
|
This DMU is quite the outfit...um has anyone noticed the poster forgot to rotate half his pics?
Guess when ya been in these core groups it don't matter a lot....the entire concept is funny too...macro project...had to be shot from the kitchen table through window, didn't have to get off ass , got the notepad on table....yup i'm a shootin some macro here.....God save me
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
My view is that life - all life - is equal in terms of its value. That we are humans makes us no more special than any other species.
So let me get this straight. You believe that the lives of the following people:
1. Albert Einstein
2. Mother Teresa
3. Orson Wells
4. Jim Thorpe
5. Abraham Lincoln
Were of exactly equal value as:
1. The mold in the bottom of my shower.
2. The tick on my ankle last summer.
3. A paramecium in a Petri dish in British Columbia.
4. A nearly dead, very old, rabid raccoon.
5. Fred.
Is that what you believe?
Originally posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
andertho edited this topic 70 months ago.
|
|
*hands beebo a donut*
Originally posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
Michael Shakes edited this topic 70 months ago.
|
|
|
*locks thread*
Originally posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
Michael Shakes edited this topic 70 months ago.
|
|
Fuck Fred. Fuck Art. Someone said there were donuts in here.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
You really need to work on those locksmithing skills, Mr. Shakes. I mean, if I can wander in, willy-nilly like...imagine what some terrorist might do in here...running amok, smashing things like, and frightening the populace. Unacceptable, if you take my meaning.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
That we are humans makes us no more special than any other species.
It's not about being more special than other species, it's just about being a different species. I hate to break this to you but most other animals don't give a rat's ass about humans.
Now where the hell are my donuts?
Originally posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
Husk and Sack edited this topic 70 months ago.
|
|
|
i kick it those do nothing rats with shoe real good
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
*gets into bomb shelter*
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
So before I go, let me add that I only brought Fred into this after someone mentioned squishing spiders in another thread. And they couldn't read the whole story at The DMU.
I am not proud of what I did. But I did it nonetheless. I will stand before Flickrdom for my judgment.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I'd put a shiv in my mother's kidney for a glazed buttermilk right about now.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
i squish spiders everyday.
and house flies and wasps and ants and scorpions and whatever else crosses my way and fits under my shoe.
but jakerome managed to add a whole new level with a narrative and photography, something that needs to be applauded and appreciated.
long live Fred, whose life and death are so much more meaningful than all the nameless squished bugs because Fred became a subject of art and discussion!
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
@Planet Pixel "My view is that life - all life - is equal in terms of its value."
If that is really your view, then if you drive a car, you are somewhat hypocritical, seeing that you murder countless bugs by smashing them against your windshield. You may as well be driving on the sidewalk smashing children on their way to school.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
I wish I had a donut... alas, I am on South Beach. No donuts for me. ::cries::
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
The point is that most humans find the death of animals disturbing only in as far as they find that animal warm, cute and loving.
Life is life and death is death, no matter the species.
If you had a better grasp of biology you would understand why most people view spiders and dogs differently.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Jake i really think you should be forgiven.....we don't always do what we say and when i think back on some of my own attempts to turn bugs to art, like Crash Landing i really gotta hide my head in shame. It ain't normal to discect june bugs with razor blade in the name of art. Sometimes bugs bother us but we have to remember its their planet too.
Peace to ya bro...your alright.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
I don't imagine he wants forgiveness.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
He doesn't have to explain himself to FlickrCentral.
Just to Jesus.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Spiders are too easy.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Andertho - As a human, of course I find those people to have contributed more to the Universe than the other things you mentioned. I'm human. The contributions of those people matter.
My point - the one that seems forever lost on most people because they cannot step out of being human for a moment - is that "being human" isn't inherently "special" in itself. We only view it that way because we are human.
The Universe is so big it may as well be infinite to the human mind. We cannot comprehend it's true size and age. As such, it's nearly a given that it is teaming with life; much of it far advanced over us. That life would view us, and our "contributions" to this Universe, in the same way people here view the spider's.
And so, no. I don't have a thing against those great people you mentioned. That would be silly. However, I do believe in knowing one's place in this Universe.
Enlightened Fellow - You said, If that is really your view, then if you drive a car, you are somewhat hypocritical, seeing that you murder countless bugs by smashing them against your windshield. You may as well be driving on the sidewalk smashing children on their way to school.
That's pretty much the classic argument one gets when they discuss this topic. You're correct. I do kill countless forms of life every day on a constant basis; germs, insects and whatever food I eat.
That said, one has to be a realist. It would be virtually impossible to be alive and not do so by living off the living. This is a cold, hard fact. I like being alive more than I'd like being dead, so I go along with this. Some people who are vegetarians go a step further, and there are also vegans. However, in the end, everybody kills things by virtue of being alive.
Does that mean that given the choice to "not" kill I should abandon all common sense and do the opposite? Hardly, and you know that. You are proposing a silly statement to make my view look silly. And that's fine. I accept that.
None the less, I still believe that all of that life - all life everywhere - has the same "value," and that that value is determined not by species, but by the beauty of "life" itself.
Life is a sliding scale from the smallest micro-organisms all the way to beings far more advanced than us, somewhere out there. None of it is any more "special" in terms of the Universe.
As humans, it is up to us to "choose" to live with integrity and grace. We choose to find beauty in the things around us. We choose to treat others kindly.
And occasionally - for no other reason that to just help out the underdog - I choose to help out little bugs that are about to be squished and/or eaten.
...not because I'm playing God, but because it's nice to get a little assistance once in a while.
Cheers!
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
I was led to believe Jake was in here wearing nothing but boxer briefs... liars!
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
What? Is this gonna turn into an "underwear party?"
;-P
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
@Planet Pixel
I agree with what you're saying, to the extent that I believe all life has value, as all life has a certain inexplicable magic about it. However, to take it to the degree you do, and state that all life is of equal value is going a bit far. The reason an ad absurdum argument like my own is the classic argument you face is because your viewpoint is, in fact, absurd. If you were truly a realist, you would accept that and reevaluate your viewpoint, rather than back yourself into a corner over it. In this situation, I'm the realist, and you're the idealist.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
"Enlightened" Fellow - That you view my viewpoint as being absurd is fine with me. However, you can neither prove, nor disprove, what I am saying. Neither can I.
To label something as literally being "absurd" but not copping to the fact that it is just really your own opinion (with no real proof one way or the other) is, in my opinion, truly absurd.
The problem with your view, in my opinion, is that you presuppose that humans are the top of the chain of life; that we are truly the most advanced species out there.
If you assume this, then yeah, it makes a good bit of sense that the spider is not "equal." This is because the view presupposes that there is a known quantity to just how "smart" and "valuable" life can be. If there is a limit - and you, "enlightened" one know of it - then yes, assuming that your species is of more "value" than another makes sense.
However, if you take a step back and accept that the Universe is teeming with life, and that the human species is nothing "unique," and possibly quite backward in some ways, then it becomes far less difficult to realize the commonality to all things living.
Once you remove yourself from the pedestal you have placed yourself on as a human, and accept that there are possiblities for a far greater living being than yourself, you lose the ability to look down on other forms of life.
Originally posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
Planet Pixel edited this topic 70 months ago.
|
|
|
This has nothing to do with opinion or proof, it has to do with logical reasoning.
A statement such as "all life is of equal value" makes a statement such as "smashing children with my car is no different than smashing bugs with my car" true. If you agree with that second statement, then you are being hyypocritical by not driving on the sidewalk and smashing children, whereas, if you disagree with the second statement, then by necessity you must discard or amend the first statement.
It's not that I think your viewpoint is absurd, it is that your viewpoint contradicts itself logically, and therefore cannot be true, which makes it inherently absurd, regardless of my feelings.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
However, if you take a step back and accept that the Universe is teeming with life
You've been watching far too much Star Trek. As a scientist I can't just "accept" that the universe is teeming with life.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
Why is dog-fighting bad if deer-hunting is good ?
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Enlightened - Can I believe that all life is of equal value and then choose not to run over children on the sidewalk? Of course. Common sense and decency would prevent me from killing people on purpose.
The best part about these discussions is when people try to use logic to defeat common sense. It's fun to watch.
Harveycat - It's swell that you threw the "scientist" nugget into the mix. My view of your view has completely changed.
...please.
If you are a scientist, and you have done any real reading up on the events in astronomy over the past few years, you would realize that we are advancing by leaps and bounds in our understanding of "what is out there."
Only in this past century have we begun to grasp the size of the Universe. Only in the past 10 years or so have we begun to actually detect other planets outside our solar system. Only in the past year or so, we have found those smaller planets more "Earthlike" in size. If there is life to be found, people think it may be on those types of planets.
We theorized that they were there. We knew they must be based on the evidence around us. However, only recently have we proven that they are.
This is an example of seeing good evidence for something and setting out to see if you are correct in your hypothesis. It's how science operates.
Now, knowing that amino acids (the building blocks of life) are strewn throughout the Universe (we find evidence for them in comets) and knowing that life on Planet Earth had a "beginning," it is not a big stretch to assume that life took hold in other areas of the Universe as well.
Being a scientist, you should and probably do realize that most people cannot comprehend how very, very vast this Universe it. It is truly mind-boggling. However, just playing the odds and looking at how life started here, and how very many - nearly infinite - opportunities there are for life elsewhere, it would be silly "not" to assume that the Universe is teeming with life.
For to assume that the Universe is not brimming over with life (solely based on its vast size) is to assume that we human really are unique; that our planet is "special."
Total bull. As a scientist, you should know this.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
The problem with your view, in my opinion, is that you presuppose that humans are the top of the chain of life; that we are truly the most advanced species out there.
You just don't get it. Most species that live in social groups are "biased" towards their own. Do you think that deer care about humans more than about other deer? What about elephants? Whales?
Go read up on evolution and get a clue.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
As a scientist, I think that killing Daleks is okay.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
|
|
Swell! So, as a scientist, show me an alien and maybe I'll believe your hypothesis.
And an Englishman in New York doesn't count.
Posted 70 months ago.
(permalink)
|
FlickrCentral /
Discuss
Feed – Subscribe to FlickrCentral discussion threads