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Yes, eventually.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Yes
Posted 60 months ago.
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No they ain't censoring me and even if they were it would probably be for my own good.
Posted 60 months ago.
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I would cancel if I keep having to read complaints about censorship all the time.
Posted 60 months ago.
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When did they start censorship?
Posted 60 months ago.
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You haven't been reading all the anti-censorship spam? They screwed up in implementing some stuff to follow German laws that all the "legal experts" on Flickr say don't exist. Now German users can't view moderate or restricted photos. But it is only temporary till they fix it so they can follow the law.
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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jciv edited this topic 60 months ago.
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skinjester [deleted] says:
no. has it come to selecting the "dissent" submenu then?
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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skinjester edited this topic 60 months ago.
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jciv I think they may have had censorship imposed upon them. A not so subtle and important difference.
Posted 60 months ago.
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yes.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Nope, I'm paid up for a very long time.
And I don't throw money away.
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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plow plane edited this topic 60 months ago.
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No
Posted 60 months ago.
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Nope.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Nah.....I like it here.
Posted 60 months ago.
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I like it here, very much, but yes I am looking elsewhere right now and if this keeps up I won't renew my pro account. I'll delete my account if it gets any worse. (I believe there is no such thing as a refund).
It is not just Germany that is affected. From what Farhad Manjoo says in Salon Magazine, it is also Singapore, Hong Kong and South Korea.
I'm not into porn. I do draw and paint using life models, and have my search set to moderate. This type of choice should be everyone's right.
This kind of censorship is often the thin end of the wedge, with the thick end being political censorship. Is Yahoo perhaps doing this in the "free West" to justify what they did in China?
Posted 60 months ago.
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No, frankly I don't give a flip about all this drama.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Nope, all a big storm in a teacup.
Posted 60 months ago.
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From what Farhad Manjoo says in Salon Magazine, it is also Singapore, Hong Kong and South Korea.
Just FYI. That information is also in the FAQ.
Posted 60 months ago.
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No way
Posted 60 months ago.
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eagle2effi [deleted] says:
Of course!
1)
from 580 new recent uploads from my friends I can see ~30 flowerpower shots.
That´´s not flickr!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Flickr is about sharing.
All my contacts are reanswered and "administrated" by my invite and review. I am responsable for my shots, not flickr!
2)
its no problem of child-safe shots or other trash rules. The shots only see friends and family! But now the account is nearly dead.
3)
flickr tells me over hundred of my friends:" they have no availible pics for you! " What a shit!
They posted for me! Not for Google or childs up to ten years.
Summary:
=============
flickr did thousand percent too much for Germany , Korea Singapore.
Has Germany laws and government like these countries? Never!!
============================
4)
Our TV shows , newspapers and magazine are on the level of flickrs filter #moderate# and all is public.!! moderate is "german_safe"
Attention!
I think there are working trolls, to make flickr bad.
Stewart Butterfield, fire them!!
PS. for my proaccount I wrote flickr an ultimate letter to take the filters, like they were on beginning.
reasons:
Our Roman based LAW says. Pacta sunt servanda, means deal is deal and not changing the argument afterwords.
Other practice is illeagl in Germany. AND You cant write illegal points in flrckr guidelines for german users, cause they are not existing!!
Kind Regards to all flickereenos and admins,: -))) to Brenda
see ya eagleone
Posted 60 months ago.
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My pro account expires in July.
If they continue with censorship I will leave.
And with me 30 accounts of my students.
Posted 60 months ago.
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No. I use flickr as a tool - not a forum for airing petty politics.
Posted 60 months ago.
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We will see what will to be
Posted 60 months ago.
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Who needs to cancel their pro account when the inability to renew it due to the axing of PayPal and Yahoo! Wallet's lousy card support will make it lapse anyway? ;)
Posted 60 months ago.
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no... doesn't affect me at the moment.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Xerones: Until they stop you from using this tool for unspecified reasons.
I do not have a pro account yet, and will probably not buy one if this goes on. I will not delete my free account probably, I will keep on protesting ; )
Posted 60 months ago.
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Yahoo! and Flickr generally have to follow laws that can be enforced against them or their employees. Unfortunately, a number of places in the world are the homes of people who have allowed their local laws to become unreasonable.
Although I am sympathetic to the desires of people who live in such places to have reasonable freedoms, I believe it is their responsibility to change their own laws as needed. Nothing I can do can affect the law in Germany, Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, or the UAE where I suspect one can't actually have a Yahoo! id (safe or not) legally at the moment.
If they tried to make all Flickr users comply the most restrictive laws of any country, that would be another matter entirely. But that is not what they are doing.
Posted 60 months ago.
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If they start censoring, I might consider canceling.
Posted 60 months ago.
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You can't cancel an account, it exists for the period you paid for. So if you take your ball and flower photos and go home, Flickr has your money and the extra storage space you provided by deleting yours.
RB, point is in Germany their laws are far more liberal when it comes to the naked body than the US, so it this is indeed true about flickr something stinks about it.
Posted 60 months ago.
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As far as I can tell there is no censorship (at least not the kind of censorship people are comparing this latest issue to), so no, I don't see a need to delete my account.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Wow, like it's big news a major corp is going to try to play nice with the countries it does business with.
If there were a better alternative I'd consider it, but there isn't. Frankly, someone big enough and international enough to compete with Flickr is probably going to try to be local-law-friendly too.
Zooomr talks a good game, but only because they're too small to really be on the radar of restrictive countries. Censored in Singapore may suck, but banned in Singapore will suck worse.
Posted 60 months ago.
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CENSORING PICTURES???
Yahoo, use an age verification system. You can't create one? Poor company!
wear the blue ribbon
Think flickr, think!
Campaign against censorship at flickr!
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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CrazyTabasco edited this topic 60 months ago.
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As individuals we surely accept that when visiting other countries we are best advised to accept local laws and avoid putting either ourselves at risk or local friends / inhabitants at risk of guilt by association. This doesn't mean that we can't protest from afar, or do what we can to bring about change. No, I won't be deleting my account but scorning Flickr ( or Yahoo, or any multinational ) for 'playing the game' in order to get it's product into the marketplace at all doesn't seem justified. Business is business. As we've said before, this site is an amazing facility, but it can only exist because someone thinks it is a good commercial plan...even if we have yet to discover exactly what that long-term aim is. When that happens, yes, I might vote with my delete button...we'll see.
Posted 60 months ago.
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I really cannot think of any German law that would justify the decision to block all German users from viewing "moderate" and "restricted" images. But over the last few years European consumer protection law has intensified its impact on national legislations, so the way Yahoo changed the rules without prior notice to their customers clearly failed to comply. According to the rules European customers have an extraordinary termination right upon major changes of conditions.
I've sent a mail to Yahoo Germany asking for explanation. In the meantime, my 1000+ pictures are invisible and I am thinking about cancelling my account. Pretty sure I'll get my money back...
Posted 60 months ago.
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The sympathy I would have had for the people who had their service changed overnight has been tempered almost to extinction by the strident, over the top and deeply offensive personal insults of a surprisingly large amount of people.
Of course "surprisingly large amount" is still a small percentage, but as is typical on the Net, the moderate almost certain majority is being drowned out by people posting every ten minutes demanding exactly the same thing in more and more insulting terms.
I mean, every ten minutes! Do you really think a company this size works on anything like the same time scale?
I get the feeling some people really believe that Stewart, Heather, George et al sit around in a giant castle akin to the Republican HQ in the Simpsons, sipping goblets of blood with their fingers over a big red "Censor" button.
Plea to moderate Flickr users: Don't let your legitimate concerns and queries at this be swamped by rabid froth. Please.
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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-RobW- edited this topic 60 months ago.
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-RobW- wrote: The sympathy I would have had for the people who had their service changed overnight has been tempered almost to extinction by the strident, over the top and deeply offensive personal insults of a surprisingly large amount of people.
Of course "surprisingly large amount" is still a small percentage, but as is typical on the Net, the moderate almost certain majority is being drowned out by people posting every ten minutes demanding exactly the same thing in more and more insulting terms.
I mean, every ten minutes! Do you really think a company this size works on anything like the same time scale?
I get the feeling some people really believe that Stewart, Heather, George et al sit around in a giant castle akin to the Republican HQ in the Simpsons, sipping goblets of blood with their fingers over a big red "Censor" button.
Plea to moderate Flickr users: Don't let your legitimate concerns and queries at this be swamped by rabid froth. Please.
QFT
So true. It sums up my feelings about all this very well.
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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view-askew edited this topic 60 months ago.
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I will only cancel my pro account when presented with a 50,000 name petition to that effect. Until then, you'll just have to ignore me.
Posted 60 months ago.
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I'm with view-askew and -RobW-
well said!!!
double thumbs up
and all that
Posted 60 months ago.
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Consider:
If Flickr was into censorship then why aren't they monitoring and deleting threads like this one ? or is hysterical drivel 'safe' ?
Posted 60 months ago.
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 -RobW- We (the moderated, yet unhappy Germans) try exactly that. Sadly some retards have turned the whole protest into a carnival of absurdities. This silences all valid protest - and there are valid reasons for protesting.
Posted 60 months ago.
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*claps -RobW-*
Well said mate.
Posted 60 months ago.
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well said, RobW.
while a lemmingesque flickrcide would be interesting to watch, i don't recommend the kool-aid. obvious differing details aside, this reminds me of the quiplash affair all over again. this is not an intolerable, insolvable situation demanding the big red button. remember the mass paroxyms after the yahoo acquisition annoucement?
stewart et compagnie have always given their heart and hard work to support this community. they didnt cash out and run when yahoo showed up. they stayed here and worked to see this community thrive. no early retirements to napa vineyards or balinese pleasure villas. they stayed in the fight. they they are good people. they get flickr. there are, as robW said, legitimate concerns in play here. i have no issue with the issue, but our flickr crew has earned the trust of our patience - as friends and businesspeople.
shoot, share, support. repeat.
Posted 60 months ago.
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I've considered to take a pro account. But now, I will stay the old free account user as ever been.
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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hagee edited this topic 60 months ago.
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@Rob W
You have expressed my feelings precisely. I had all but given up reading this thread and similar ones even though I am against censorship, that is until I noticed your comment in my RSS feed. My ad block filters are working overtime blocking all these large and often identical censorship images. Many legit protests have the opposite effect to what they intend due to small groups of organised extremists who go over the top with their in your face messages.
So saying I notice there is a campaign happening on the net against censorship, but, unfortunately people seem to think this is also a reason to be able to not censor porn, racial abuse and other nasty things. I'm not saying that's the attitude of everyone protesting here, but, I see it creeping in.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Sorry to disagree Rob.
I have bought and paid for a service under conditions that are now being changed without any prior warning. Unter EU law, that's illegal. At least they should have informed us beforehand and should have given paying members the option of cancellation and refund (I have paid for many months into the future). Flickr's PR policy (if at all there is one) is a story of utter failure.
It's very easy to say you don't bother if you're not affected. And - it sounds quite hypocritical to me, considering with all new homeland security acts in the US that you're still living in a "free country". Maybe you're just living the joys of being ignorant.
I am very well aware that there are tangible reasons for Flickr's step to censor German users - but this move has not been a forced one because no laws in this area have recently been changed in Germany. German courts have lately been issuing some very weird and illogical rulings on ISP liabilities, and Ebay and Google are already challenging them at the European court in Brussels. Why Flickr/Yahoo isn't simply joining forces with them is totally beyond me.
Back to the original question:
I am a paying Pro customer, and I will most certainly not renew my membership if Flickr doesn't change its policy toward German users. If Flickr's services were more expensive, I'd even consider suing them to pay back fees for services I cannot fully use any more.
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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tschnitzlein edited this topic 60 months ago.
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well said, claps, thumbs up... - I also agree with a moderate protest, but...
I read your opinion Fubuki, and found it very beautiful and would fully agree with you three days ago. I quote you: Flickr is you and me - and everyone in this community. Flickr is the addictive magic that fires up when really smart and very cool people gravitate to each other, share their images, their histories, their experiences - share, support, and inspire.
I now read this differentely, just because I have some friends that are limited on their use and participation on this community. On the other hand, beeing myself a moderate person and not agreeing with some radical protests, I can understand how it happens. The addictive magic may fire up either positive or negative behaviours. I don't know how I would react in the same conditions, personaly I would be very angry, but in a community like this one I probably would react like those that are criticised here (who knows?)... and this is valid for me and for "you". Who can garantie that "your" countrie won't be the next one? It will be just a matter of specific conditions like in this moment...
Back to topic, I paid one more year for my pro account three days ago. Of course I won't cancel it now, but I'm very upset with this changes. I remember the mass paroxyms after the yahoo acquisition announcement, and now I can see why. I now have one year to find another storage/sharing service, just in case, because I'm really sorry for this loss of trust in the service. We know this is business, but it's an amazing community to the users. When I subscribe I couldn't imagine how my life could change (yes Flickr affects users lifes), but now I feel that Flickr won't be the same again for me, and for more people.
edit for text correction (not easy when your not an English native speaker)
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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▪▫■ □ rui □ ■▫▪ edited this topic 60 months ago.
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i was opening a pro account...and then i read about the censorship
Now i wait to see if flickr will step back
if not i will never give a penny to flickr for any reason
On the contrary and i will do my best to boycott flickr in any possible way
Posted 60 months ago.
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Jeepers, is Brighton now part of the US? Whatever happened to prior warning?
Posted 60 months ago.
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axel_hyde: They are deleting threads like this in some groups and in the forum.
Posted 60 months ago.
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NO!! Get a life !!
Posted 60 months ago.
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I'll join the list of people saying 'Yes, that's exactly what I wanted to say' to Rob W.
Also: "They are deleting threads like this in some groups and in the forum. "
If a thread is deleted from a group it's almost certainly the group admin responsible. It's not flickr censoring things. I've seen a thread deleted in one group I frequent and they were right to do so because the thread was off-topic for the group. However strongly you feel about it, the people who wish to engage on the subject will find the relevant places to do so.
As for the forum... there are very active threads in the forum so it's obvious that opinions aren't being censored there. If people incite others to take action against individuals then I'd expect the threads to be deleted because that's unreasonable. I'd also expect them to sensibly lock/delete duplicates.
[EDIT: typo]
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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Dave Gorman edited this topic 60 months ago.
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Yup, here's another vote for RobW's eminently sane view.
Posted 60 months ago.
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"RobW" and "eminently sane" are not words one would normally expect to find in the same sentence, but he may be less than nuts on this one.
It really is getting very tiresome to see all these issues, many of them perfectly valid, turning into logo-led viruses. Discussion groups like FlickrCentral make perfectly adequate forums for rational debate. Why is it necessary to start uploading silly banners and flooding them in every group and stream ?
I keep coming across those hideous in-your-face warnings about sexual predators that have absolutely nothing to do with photography.
If you keep this up, I'm going to launch a campaign for more decaffeinated tea.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Dave Gorman: If you call it censorship or not, while there are many controversial postings are left in the forum, others *are* edited out. I will not use the c-word, but this is a fact.
If this is to remove "duplicates" or to shape the impression people get, and to remove critical statements, is up to you to decide.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Tampen: I think Flickr staff would not have reacted otherwise. They are still telling us very little about the current situation, and about how it will be improved.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Little Lightshow [deleted] says:
@RobW and @Tampen
Great - your comment is exayctly what I think.
I'm German in Germany.
I'm on the way to retrack because of this stupid riots.
I closed already 2 of my German Groups complete and left it because of this - the other 2 are restricted now - I ban everyone without warning who try to post something about this censoring matter.
I had to block since yesterday - didn't count it - about 100 or more German Flickr members !!! Bevore it was only about 4 or 5 blocks.
Yes - my pro-account expires End of August 07 and I don't extend it any more.
I admire most of the US-and British groups - easy going and funny stuff, well educated and polite.
99% of all problems during my time with Flickr was caused by my own peoples - the Germans.
Btw: It needs not too much intelligence to bypass these "safetyfilters" - funny little toys, not worthy to talk about :)))
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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Little Lightshow edited this topic 60 months ago.
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@Tampen
It really is getting very tiresome to see all these issues, many of them perfectly valid, turning into logo-led viruses. Discussion groups like FlickrCentral make perfectly adequate forums for rational debate. Why is it necessary to start uploading silly banners and flooding them in every group and stream ?
I think I may start a Group against flooding forums with repetitive political anti censorship banners then create a banner about it and urge all members to post it and similar ones in forums where we see the above banners flooding them :-)
Posted 60 months ago.
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yes.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Remember when flickr had more photos then opinions?
Yeah...those were the days.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Hell no. Flickr rocks! <3
Posted 60 months ago.
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Nope. I still do not think it's Flickr's fault they are only doing this as their way to follow the laws in the lands they operate in. If they go beyond the scope of the law then probably.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Remember when flickr had more photos then opinions?
We still do, but, now the opinions are also in the photos :-)
Posted 60 months ago.
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I miss ho ho ho hats.
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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a nameless yeast edited this topic 60 months ago.
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i heart a nameless yeast
Posted 60 months ago.
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@ottoman42
tell me laws!
I see more in TV //magazine// newspaper// as moderate pics by flickr in our german media culture.
So why does flickr more than 90 percent of german taste?
moderate = german_safe that´s the truth, nothing more
flickr has restricted, seen only by you and private
so why is moderate illegal?
once more
eagle2effi´account:
from 580 new recent uploads from my friends I can see ~30 flowerpower shots.
That´´s not flickr!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Flickr is about sharing.
Otto , now YOU!!
Posted 60 months ago.
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You know, I think some level of cencorship is okay on Flickr, because if not then it will become like myspace, now its just full of freakin weirdos and kids, I like to believe flickr is a fun clean place, and if they stop cencoring it, then searches and other places are going to have to block it unless you remove the safe search.
You have to draw a line some where, if they don't censor flickr it will just become another place for lonely people to put naked pictures of themselves, and that isn't what I was looking for when I joined here.
Posted 60 months ago.
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I don't have credit card. I used to renew my account using PayPal, now that they have been "censored" too, i can't renew my account :S
Damn! I miss PayPal
Posted 60 months ago.
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Will this lead to less "FLICKR ARE THE NAZIS!" spam? Because then I am all for people canceling their accounts, reading the news, and getting some perspective.
Posted 60 months ago.
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I haven't really been following all these threads about censorship, but I think some people may have jumped to conclusions, so I will wait to see how Flickr responds and takes action on this.
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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RoninVision edited this topic 60 months ago.
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[this] [account] [has] [been] [deleted] says:
"FLICKR ARE THE NAZIS!"
it's a Godwin, but not a very good one, I give it a 4.5
Posted 60 months ago.
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Remember when flickr had more photos of onions?
Yeah...those were the days.
Posted 60 months ago.
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I find any sort of Internet censorship effed-up (such as the Google censorship for residents of China) as that goes against the Internet as being a global interactive medium.
That being said, Google and Yahoo! are international corporations and the name of the game is hierarchical capitalism. In order to be able to play - conduct business - in a certain country a corporation may have to play by local laws and regulations; capitulate to the restrictions of the local/national government. For example, CNet News has a recent article saying that the Chinese government is behind the censorship of Flickr for China.
I believe that it is up to residents/citizens of each country to actively protest their government and any infringements upon their freedoms (such as the "Patriot" Act in the US) and for the international community as a whole to stand with them.
"No one is free when others are oppressed."
I'll be following this issue, as Flickr really hasn't said much regarding their involvement/Yahoo!'s involvement and their stances on the issue.
Posted 60 months ago.
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The sympathy I would have had for the people who had their service changed overnight has been tempered almost to extinction by the strident, over the top and deeply offensive personal insults of a surprisingly large amount of people.
Of course "surprisingly large amount" is still a small percentage, but as is typical on the Net, the moderate almost certain majority is being drowned out by people posting every ten minutes demanding exactly the same thing in more and more insulting terms.
I mean, every ten minutes! Do you really think a company this size works on anything like the same time scale?
I get the feeling some people really believe that Stewart, Heather, George et al sit around in a giant castle akin to the Republican HQ in the Simpsons, sipping goblets of blood with their fingers over a big red "Censor" button.
Plea to moderate Flickr users: Don't let your legitimate concerns and queries at this be swamped by rabid froth. Please.
Bravo RobW Bravo!!!
Posted 60 months ago.
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it's a Godwin, but not a very good one, I give it a 4.5
Yeah, except I wasn't calling Flickr Nazi's.
Posted 60 months ago.
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[this] [account] [has] [been] [deleted] says:
thus the score reduction
Posted 60 months ago.
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I'm not bothered by people posting every ten minutes. Sure it creates a little chaos but I think it should be tolerated. I just skip the posts that seem repetitive, same as I skip pornographic images by not clicking on the thumbnails.
I didn't renew my pro account in February because I was so alarmed by the sign-in bug that left my yahoo email open even after signing out of Flickr. I was alarmed by the fact that they knew about the bug for 6 months before responding to the problem. They only eventually fixed it because of a second complaint and people like me constantly bumping the thread. When asked why they didn't respond to the first bug report, staff responded with "nobody bumped the thread"
www.flickr.com/help/forum/26124/
www.flickr.com/help/forum/29912/#reply
I felt so deeply troubled by how a bug that left my email privacy exposed to the word could be so coldly ignored because nobody bumped the thread...that I didn't renew my pro account. Before that experience I was quite happy with the services of Yahoo mail and had been using it for years. I certainly wasn't interested in being an Internet pest before that experience. The problem was more about the incompetence or indifference of Flickr than Yahoo...."Nobody bumped the thread".... yeah, or maybe they just wanted to sweep under the carpet any problems that had anything to do with Yahoo? I don't know.
Anyhow....let the carnival continue until they fix the problem.
Posted 60 months ago.
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I let my paid account lapse after Yahoo took over, largely because they'd shown themselves to be pretty untrustworthy in the past, and I wanted to see how the takeover played out before I gave them any more money.
The spectacular mis-handling of this particular debacle is a strong argument for to expect things to generally get worse.
It's a shame.
I guess it's only a matter of time before there's a genuinely viable alternative, though...
Posted 60 months ago.
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No, flickr still fulfils my purposes
Posted 60 months ago.
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the link to the staff reply (re my above post)
www.flickr.com/help/forum/29912/#reply150338
Posted 60 months ago.
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@eagle1effi
I appreciate your passion some quick googling pointed me to the wonderful website Chilling Effects. Which mentions a specific law that would need to be covered by Flickr Moderate filter. A picture of a swastika would not fall under the extreme of Flickr's filters but would fall under moderate. And a picture of a swastika could be covered in this law.
www.chillingeffects.org/international/notice.cgi?NoticeID...
Once you get there put germany into the search box and see how many court orders and such are sent to google about google images and groups which apply to here as well.
So if you do not like what is going on why don't you turn your passion to the laws you live under rather than Flickr, who is simply easier for you to attack.
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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Ottoman42 edited this topic 60 months ago.
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infinite.magic wrote: You know, I think some level of cencorship is okay on Flickr, because if not then it will become like myspace, now its just full of freakin weirdos and kids,
Yahoo! Photos will officially close on Thursday, September 20, 2007 at 9 p.m. PDT. The millions of users of that site are encouraged to create accounts on Flickr and transfer their photos here. The ability to transfer all uploaded pictures in one go directly to Flickr became available 2 days ago. I kind of dread this, as I suspect that there will be more drama like we've seen the last few days when possibly millions of new users join in a relatively short space of time.
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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view-askew edited this topic 60 months ago.
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This whole discussion is downright silly. Flickr isn't "censoring." They are a big business that is afraid to do something that would get them in legal trouble. How can you people not get that?
It's obvious that the folks who run flickr are stressing over this whole Germany thing. However, they are tied to Yahoo now and are bound by much bigger interests than they had previously. I know that many people want to believe flickr is run differently and that it is all touch-feely-happy-happy, but it isn't. It's a big business. Period.
I love flickr for the sense of community it inspires; especially in as far as it allows folks to share and communicate across borders. However, I recognize that flickr doesn't "care" about me and my "needs." They are here to make money. At the end of the day, after all the sharing and making nice, flickr is a big business, with its hands tied by an even bigger business. And, in the world of big business, only money matters. Any possible breaking of a law will be treated over-cautiously by a big business because that could impede the continuation of that business. Again, it all gets back to money.
That anybody here sees flickr as something else - regardless of all the community and fun it inspires - is testament to the fact that people see the world in a very unrealistic way; they whine for their wants, instead of facing reality and getting on with things.
"Censorship?" Please. This is about big business and the fearful corporate monkeys at the helm.
That's it.
And no, I will not cancel my account over this absolute sillyness.
Posted 60 months ago.
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""RobW" and "eminently sane" are not words one would normally expect to find in the same sentence"
I can be sane when the voices tell me to be.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Maybe
Posted 60 months ago.
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Planet Pixel: Of course you are right, that Flickr is in this for the money, and that it is stupid to project feelings into an evil large multinational corporation like Yahoo/Flickr is.
What they are doing is censorship however. What would you call it, if
you suddenly were no longer allowed to see many photos here?
What do you suggest should affected users do against this sillyness (many of whom have payed, before this was implemented)?
What would you do in that situation? Would you lean back and do nothing?
Posted 60 months ago.
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gocarrt [deleted] says:
Hats and Beard are (were) the bomb...
flickr.com/groups/central/discuss/72157594417625268/
Posted 60 months ago.
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Sooperkuh - I certainly understand that this sitation is hard on the people who are being denied access to images. I get that. And, I personally find it ridiculous. My opinion is that we should all be allowed equal access to images.
None the less, Flickr is buckling under because of big business fears. That's it.
And so, if this were happening to me, I'd be very, very, very upset. I'd consider leaving flickr, but I probably wouldn't.
Why? Because I face the facts that this world is very unfair and most decisions in big business - of which I suckle off every moment of every day - are made out of fear and love of money. Every big business I make use of in a direct, or indirect, manner each day is taking advantage of somebody, somewhere. They do not care about me. Period.
Why should flickr be any different? Why do people here insist on flickr being held to some "better" standard. When flickr joined with Yahoo they became bound by bigger interests. Those interests are at the mercy of doing "what is best for the business." They don't care about art, or freedom, or people being happy. They are here for money.
And so, I'll stay on flickr. I like it. And, if they start blocking my viewing of images based on some silly cowardly obedience to some silly local law, I'll complain. That's about it.
However, I will never consider this "censorship." It is nothing more than blind obedience to the big dollar.
Posted 60 months ago.
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And what about a little change. Let's not talk about censorship, but about user's limitations and breaking contractual terms of service. Maybe people understand it better when it comes to their turn... I'm not concerned only about Germany/Singapore/Korea/HongKong users, I'm concerned about the principle that will affect this community/business in the future.
When I ask "Who's next??": www.flickr.com/photos/ruinog/551844021/
I inicially meant "countrie", but now I'm thinking about Internet services too. Now its Flickr, but it's possible that other sites may be affected in the future. In that case, what will be the point to change to another site if the Internet acess/service may get controled by local laws all over the world?
Posted 60 months ago.
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To those affected, the end result of all this will look exactly like Flickr censorship. But of course it's not and there's no positive outcome from bleating about it - as censorship.
No matter that this arises from a failure to understand and provide a solution to legal problems in the affected countries or from under-resourcing the launch or even just crap management decisions - whatever the reason - there will be a workaround - there will eventually be a fix - and to retain the customer base in those areas affected - it will be as soon as Flickr can make it happen.
So yes sooperkuh - just lean back and think happy thoughts - all will be well soon - and if not soon enough for you - your wallet will do the talking - elsewhere.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Planet Pixel: Why should flickr be any different? Why do people here insist on flickr being held to some "better" standard.
Because a lot of people (although by now they are a small minority I imagine) have been on Flickr since long before Yahoo came along and know it (and the team behind it) to be "different" and of "a better standard".
When flickr joined with Yahoo they became bound by bigger interests.
I think that's very true.
Posted 60 months ago.
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@rul
Other sites are affected. Take a look at Chilling Effects.
www.chillingeffects.org/
Google has caught more flak for the same laws than anyone else in their archive. Myspace, YouTube, etc all of these places are effected if they choose to operate in the countries that have limitations on free speech.
Yes it is censorship but what I do not understand is why people think Flickr is just doing this out of their own will. They have to follow the laws and have to implement technological filters to do so. It is how it is done. What should really happen is that people should directly try to change the law if they do not like censorship. This isn't a strawman its the real reason. Now direct your passion elsewhere to a place that can actually change like like your government!
@elbisreverri
Because a lot of people (although by now they are a small minority I imagine) have been on Flickr since long before Yahoo came along and know it (and the team behind it) to be "different" and of "a better standard".
You hit the nail right on the head with that. That's exactly where Flickr went wrong. They started the Pro Account as a way to get more money flowing to them so they could grow more. However instead of offering it as a product they said it was a way for everyone to help Flickr out. As soon as they said that and charged money people started to think they owned a portion of Flickr. Since they figured they owned a portion of Flickr their opinions mattered. But the hard truth is they never really did. They never signed a contract that said a pro account gives them shares in Flickr. The Pro Account is a product that enhances their experience and nothing more. But as you said no one understands that. Why else would you see people putting (Old Skool) or stuff like that next to their name as if it mattered? I've been a pro member since Nov 3 2004. Does that make me better than anyone else or give me the ear of the Flickr staff no. Should I add (Oldest Skool) member to my name? No. Because it does not matter I'm just another user like they are and people need to understand that.
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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Ottoman42 edited this topic 60 months ago.
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elbisreverri - I understand. I've been here a while now myself, and have seen the changes at flickr. Some of them have been positive, some haven't. None the less, I do think that flickr is just the best alternative there is for this type of site. So, I'm sticking with it.
If this whole big business corporate fear mentality ruins things, then so be it. I'll move on.
Posted 60 months ago.
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... I was just wandering ...but maybe the real solution is ... to increase the free streams to the point that it is impossible to control ... so that Flickr will only be able to say to the States : "I can't do anything against this" ...
I don't know ... what I can say is that I still find pictures and informations on Flickr I am not able to find in "traditionnal" media (even sensible informations) ... I meet people coming from unfree countries sharing their trials to express what they live and feel (with great artistical talent, most of the time) ... and I think that it still is an open window on the world for people living in restricted countries ... even if it lasts just a few seconds ... they will have the opportunity to see something else than what they are used to see in the newspapers ...
somehow I feel that little freedom is always better than no freedom at all ... and that freedom cravers are always more intelligent than power cravers ... bypassing censorship is one of major activities of the humankind since the very beginning ... so ...
This mays sound naive ... but I wanted to share it ...
Ps : apparently all this is restricted to people creating yahoo accounts in Germany, Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, and the UAE ... so feel free to contact me to create a Yahoo account here from France ... maybe it will solve part of your problem ...
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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~ kali's central station ~ edited this topic 60 months ago.
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AMDM - photography [deleted] says:
Nope will not quit Flickr .
Posted 60 months ago.
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I mean if someone turns the power off its all over anyway.
Posted 60 months ago.
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No, I'm not going anywhere. I don't think this is a censorship orchestrated by flickr stafff.
And, I don't know if this is the right place to say that, but the new so-called anti-censorship slogan really plays on my nerves. "Nicht mit uns" (not with us) directly implies that "underdeveloped" countries can be suppressed by anti-obscenity laws, but if a similar thing happens to a rich, developed and "democratic" country like Germany, then they'll immediately protest and threaten. In my book, this is nothing but hypocrisy.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Would you cancel your PRO account if Flickr continues censoring?
Have you stopped beating your wife?
Posted 60 months ago.
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Gustavo: touche'.
Posted 60 months ago.
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The sympathy I would have had for the people who had their service changed overnight has been tempered almost to extinction by the strident, over the top and deeply offensive personal insults of a surprisingly large amount of people.
Of course "surprisingly large amount" is still a small percentage, but as is typical on the Net, the moderate almost certain majority is being drowned out by people posting every ten minutes demanding exactly the same thing in more and more insulting terms.
I mean, every ten minutes! Do you really think a company this size works on anything like the same time scale?
I get the feeling some people really believe that Stewart, Heather, George et al sit around in a giant castle akin to the Republican HQ in the Simpsons, sipping goblets of blood with their fingers over a big red "Censor" button.
Plea to moderate Flickr users: Don't let your legitimate concerns and queries at this be swamped by rabid froth. Please.
Worth repeating.
Also, I think flickr should have much stricter rules regarding content. As it is now, self-filtering makes this a fine home for porn. Sure, I can keep my safe-search on and I don't have to see it, but I don't want to be part of a photo-sharing, porn-hosting community. (I also don't want to be part of a photo-sharing, art-sharing, illustration-sharing, grahpic art sharing, screen-shot sharing community but that's a whole other argument.)
Posted 60 months ago.
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Worth repeating....no power...no computer ..no flickr...no censorship.
Posted 60 months ago.
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I'm not sure what Flickr is censoring.
Originally posted 60 months ago.
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Werewolf Puppy edited this topic 60 months ago.
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