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Need advice on this (legal mumbo-jumbo) - SOLVED
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I got a request for use of one of my pictures
(Original request, personal reference xéd out):
Hi! My Co-author xxx and I are authors living in New York City. Our latest book we're working on is a fun and funny book of brides, grooms, cakes, and basically anything funny about weddings. We're looking for funny and unique wedding photos for this book that will publish next summer. Our book will be a cute and funny shower gift for brides. We are looking for funny, unique, interesting or even downright scary personal wedding snapshots to be included in the book, and we would love to use your photo "Waiting Bride ." We can't offer compensation, but we are happy to credit photographers. The individuals in the pictures will not be identified in the book, although we will need their consent as well. Thank you, and we look forward to hearing from you about being in our book!
Best,
XXX
End of 1st message. I answered :
Sounds like a nice idea! I'm happy to contribute the photo : "waiting bride" for your book. For credits, please use my flickr ID : Dr. Fujitronic.
Wishing you the best with your book,
I then got this release form to "sign":
I am writing to you to request permission to include your photograph (s) itemized below. Will you please grant permission to me and my publishers and their affiliates, licensees and assigns for the use of this material in the Work in any and all editions, in all languages, in whole or in part, throughout the world, in all media now known or hereafter devised, including advertising and promotion of the Work?
Photos requested:
Waiting bride
I hereby grant you and the Publisher the permission requested above. I warrant and represent that I am the owner of the rights granted herein and that the selected material does not infringe upon the copyright or any other rights of anyone, and that the subjects in the picture have agreed to the use of their image. I understand you will include the following line in the Work.
Form of Copyright Acknowledgment/Credit line:
Grantor:
Date:
Please indicate your approval to the terms herein by typing your information above,and email the release back to us through Flikr or...
End of 2nd message
What on earth does it mean exactly?
I have already replaced the picture by the hi res version and added a standard Attribution-non commercial license.
I don't feel like signing that stuff, and have the impression, i'm getting commercially exploited. The person in question is "harvesting" bride related pictures on flickr in his favorites, so i guess there are more people getting this request.
Any advice would be helpful.
Originally posted at 4:27PM, 26 April 2006 PDT
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Dr. Fujitronic - NO YAHOOLIGAN edited this topic 74 months ago.
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I got a mail from them too which I chose to ignore. The fact that they said the models would not be identified soured the whole thing for me. Credit the photographer but not the model? you'd need a photographer's release AND a model release to use it in a legitimate way I'd imagine.
Posted 74 months ago.
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Well basically they are requesting that you affirm that you own all the rights to the photo (ie you haven't sold the rights to the photo to anyone else) and that your subject(s) have also given their permission for the use of their likeness. If you do say that the bride in your photo has given her permission and she hasn't, then she could come back after you and sue you (though that type of thing is very uncommon).
Personally, I wouldn't give away a photo for a commercial endeavor.
Posted 74 months ago.
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By the way.. they've emailed me twice so far that i've noticed. Once today and once last week. That one being worded a bit different to the one they sent today which was similiar to yours.
The previous one..
Dear Krystal,
My name is Bev West, I'm an author here in New York City, and we have just sold a book to Warner Books called Bad Bride. We are looking for funny wedding photos of brides, bridesmaids, weddings, grooms, etc, for our book which will publish from Warner Books next summer. my co-author and I noticed some great shots in your photo stream, and wanted to know if you would like to submit any of your funny wedding photos for inclusion in the book. We are happy to give you photo credit in the book, and none of the individuals in the pictures will be identified in the book. If you are interested in submitting your funny and or bad wedding photos to be included in our book, please send along your together with anything you'd like us to know about your picture, including snide comments to penbrookny@aol.com or respond to my flikr address. Also I would imagine that the people in the images will also have to give their consent. We really enjoyed your photos and very much look forward to hearing back from you. Hope you're having a great day!
Best, Bev West
Seems i now recall discussing this last week. They asked people to send them photos and then they said after doing so that gave them rights to use your images. Hang on let me scrounge up that link.
Originally posted 74 months ago.
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Special (a group admin) edited this topic 74 months ago.
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Well seems we removed that thread since they were soliciting photos here and we felt something was fishy about them.
However. this is what I said in the admin forum in regards to how they had worded the ad here.. and then the email they sent.
"Oh by the way, please note that they left out that whole 'legal' part that was in the central post in the email they sent.
Legal Stuff:
Submitting an image to us via email, teleportation, etc., you agree to give us, Kitchen Table Productions and Warner Books the right to use and allow others to use the image in any way we choose. This may include, but is not limited to, reproduction on the World Wide Web, print in book or magazine form, retransmission via email, and distribution on CD-ROM or DVD. You also agree that you have no implicit right to financial compensation from our use of the image. If you don't like this, please do not send us anything.
Ok well they just asked me to send them photos. Didn't bother to mention any of that jazz there. heh. Not that I was going to send them photos but still.. bit shady to me I think."
Originally posted 74 months ago.
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Special (a group admin) edited this topic 74 months ago.
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These people will be selling the book, and making a profit from something you have given away. If you are OK with that, go ahead.
The legal mumbo jumbo means that if someone chases them for anything because of your photo they will come right after you. For something for which you have not even been paid.
Of course, if you do own the copyright, and the subject consents, you have nothing to worry about. Unless you have entered the photo in a contest and inadvertently lost your rights when you didn't read the terms and conditions of ennterinng the contest.
(There are other potential issues about whether they can do that because you have received nothing for the photo - lawyers call it consideration and it is a necessary part of the formation of a contract in some parts of the world, but we will leave that aside.)
Posted 74 months ago.
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Also, people spelling Flickr incorrectly is never a good sign.
Posted 74 months ago.
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Frankly I don't trust them. They tried this last week in a very different way. They sent out emails, that had no mention of that legal stuff in my previous post. Then put it in their post here as if that would somehow make it all official and legal?
How would someone sending them photos in an email like they asked, have any idea of their 'legal stuff' since they only posted it here in a thread and didn't think to include it in the mails sent out? Mails that said "If you are interested in submitting your funny and or bad wedding photos to be included in our book, please send along your together with anything you'd like us to know about your picture, including snide comments to penbrookny@aol.com " The whole thing seemed very shady to me.
Originally posted 74 months ago.
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Special (a group admin) edited this topic 74 months ago.
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Well ,that helps a big deal. Thanks, all!
I changed my license back to :all rights reserved.
@ zrim: Although the bride on my picture is barely dressed, and i never asked her permission, i'd be surprised, if she sue'd me
Posted 74 months ago.
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please grant permission to me and my publishers and their affiliates, licensees and assigns for the use of this material in the Work in any and all editions, in all languages, in whole or in part, throughout the world, in all media now known or hereafter devised, including advertising and promotion of the Work
You are granting the authors, the publisher and anyone else connected to the publisher to use and/or manipulate your image, without further consent from you and/or compensation to you, in any way they see fit. They can advertise the book with your image in any part of the world through TV, newspaper, billboards, web, you name it, and you can name it since it is also explicit about forms of media that have not been invented yet. They can do this for as long as they want and in as many editions of the book as they like without further notice. You're granting them a perpetual worldwide all language license.
I warrant and represent that I am the owner of the rights granted herein and that the selected material does not infringe upon the copyright or any other rights of anyone
They want to make sure you own the copyright to the image and that it is/has not been transferred, sold or shared with anyone else.
the subjects in the picture have agreed to the use of their image.
This says that you have a commercial model release from the subject in the photograph because, per the previous paragraph, they could be using the photo in advertisements.
Although the bride on my picture is barely dressed, and i never asked her permission, i'd be surprised, if she sue'd me
If the advertising text around her photo is unflattering (which it likely will be with a title like Bad Bride), and she's identifiable from the photo, even if she didn't want to sue you, she would have to sue you in order to sue the publishing company.
I first saw the original thread before the admins pulled it down. A couple things that really bother me are that
1. Warner Books is an extremely large publishing concern that has produced many bestsellers in recent years, including books showcased on Oprah, and to think that they cannot afford to pay RM stock rates for a book is ludicrous.
2. The authors will obviously be paid royalties, and this kind of subject seems very mass media friendly, so it's likely they'll sell a lot of copies and come out with new and/or revised editions for years to come. Why should they expect photographers to offer their art for free? They don't work for free.
Originally posted 74 months ago.
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purplezebra edited this topic 74 months ago.
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If it's really Warner Books, not a self-publishing job or a poor scholarly press, then there's money in that budget for the artwork, including photographs. And if it's really Warner Books, then *that's* whom you should be dealing with, *not* the authors -- any contract should be with the publisher.
It is fairly common in that sort of book not to credit the people appearing in a photograph. The photo is being used to illustrate a text that is not about those people. Naming the subjects of the photograph leads readers to expect something to be said about those people in particular.
The extent of the permissions you grant should depend on the rights the publisher has arranged for the original manuscript. That may well be world, all-language rights (the publisher then sells subsidiary rights to other, foreign pubishers, which can include the rights to reprint the artwork; you can ask for additional payment in those circumstances as part of your contract, but may not be offered it), but it may also just be US or North American, English-language rights.
Posted 74 months ago.
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I have read that authors, many times, are required to provide the illustration, or at least know where they can procure it. I have also been contacted by authors when they wanted to use photos, but after the initial contact, the editor/publisher contacts me directly to hammer out the details and decide on the final images.
Posted 74 months ago.
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ummmm... I've got a photo of a bride and groom from a Wedding...
Posted 74 months ago.
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heh - and of course you know they'd be thrilled to be featured in a book called 'Bad Weddings'.
Posted 74 months ago.
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This is only as bad as the 'small print' ( often very very very small print ) attached to many photo competitions these days - until recently our own beloved British Broadcasting Corporation was one of the worst offenders. If you doubt this, you haven't looked hard enough.
Posted 74 months ago.
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@ Dr Fujitronic:
They have a budget alright. Even if the author has to pay you directly out of their own advance. You have a unique property in that image. Make them deal!
The rest is details.
Posted 74 months ago.
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How this used to work in the old days:
Author pitches book to publisher. Publisher agrees an advance and a picture budget. Author gets camera and takes necessary photos. Author licences photos to self, often under another name.
Ker-ching. Author gets to keep both piles of money.
I'd guess that this is the same except the authors are too lazy to go take the photographs themselves.
Oh - and in publishing, the absolute minimum for providing a bit of content is a free copy when the book is published.
Posted 74 months ago.
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I think, we should reverse the principle, and ask authors, if we can use their text for free to publish our photo's... ;)
Again, thanks all, for your elaborate advice.
Posted 74 months ago.
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I sent him a last reply :
I am sorry to inform you, that my picture : waiting bride
is NOT available for commercial products, without a fitting compensation. Note, that all rights are reserved!
I wish you good luck with your photo hunting,
Dr. Fujitronic
And now back to flickr business as usual...
Posted 74 months ago.
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I think, we should reverse the principle, and ask authors, if we can use their text for free to publish our photo's... ;)
That sir, is fricking brilliant. Hat tip to you.
Posted 74 months ago.
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Hi my name is Bev West and my partner Jason and I are the ones you are all wondering and posting about on this thread about so I wanted to respond with the details about the projec t so that we can hopefully allay everybody's suspicions about us, and tso that everybody can decide whether or not they would like to be involved with this project based on the facts. First of all, we are NOT shady people as some of you have suggested. We are legitimate authors who have been publishing books for fifteen years, and you can check us out by typing in Beverly West on amazon.com. I am the author of the cinematherapy series, as well as two upcoming volumes, Pugtherapy, featuring pics of our pugs, and Fat Daisy, Inner Beauty Secrets From a Real Dog featuring our fat chihuahua Daisy's futile attempts to lose weight after the birth of her puppies. Both of these books publish in September from reputable publishers. We have recently sold a book to Warner Books called Brides Behaving Badly. 222 Not So Blushing Brides and Weddings Gone WIld. The book is designed to a fun NOT mean spirited and amusing shower giftbook for brides and we are all very excited about it, because we think it will be a great wedding stress reliever for everybody in the wedding party We have never done this kind of a project before, so forgive us for changing our notes and for the confusion about permissions, we are complete novices at the legalties of this kind of project, and are only trying to do our best to make sure that everybody's rights are protected. The legal form we got and are circulating to participating photographers comes directly from Warner Books legal department, and is the standard for that they use. We felt strongly that we wanted to get not only photographers permission but subjects as well, just to make sure that nobody feels like their toes have been stepped on, so the form includes this provision. . We are using 250 photos, so there is absolutely no way that we could pay for use, however we are artists ourselves, and are very apprecaitive of the contribution of talent and insight that the photographers that have agreed to work with us are making. We will however, credit the photographer, and do whatever we can to contribute exposure and recognition for the artists involved, and will buy a copy of the book for everybody who participates. I'm sorry we've generated so much controversy. I can assure everybody that we are nice, conscientious, above tboard, completely legitimate authors, and that the book will not embarrass or rip off anybody. After all, if we were trying to get away with something sneaky, would we be working ten hours a day to get permission from everybody to use their work or their image? It's a monumental undertaking we can assure you! We appreciate the kind letters and helpful and creative support we've received from so many of the photographers on Flikr, and look forward to a fun and successful book that will hopefully bring some increased visibility for everybody concerned and give everybody a product that can point to and be proud of. If you have any questions please feel fre to email me on my flikr account at luvdanny and I'll be happy to respond to your questions. But I do want to assure everybody that has aired in here that we are EXACTLY what we claim to be; authors, who don't make much money ourselves, looking to showcase some of the fun work we have found on this site. But obviously, if you want to be paid for use, then this is not the project for you, since we just don't have the means to offer that now. Maybe in the future, once we get a track record going though. Anyway, thanks again to everybody, the Flikr community has been for the most part very kind, and both Jason and I hope that you are all having a wonderful Memorial Day weekend.
Posted 73 months ago.
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oh and one more note, as any of you know who have been involved in book publishing, nobody except people like Dan Brown gets rich. We are NOT and I repeat NOT making piles of money. Our advance is small and we are completely freelance authors, we are only paid out one third of our advance on signing, and must fund the entire production of this book on our end with this one small payment. There are no piles of riches here that we are withholding, we are just freelance artists, like many of you, plying our trade , who were inspired by the creativity we found on this site.
Posted 73 months ago.
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and one final note, sorry, just to clarify, we DO require permission from EVERYONE in the photo, in addition to the photographer. Our form stipulates that the owner of the photo has received permission from the subjects and we do not use any picture where the subjects in the picture have not given their permission. Hope this clarifies things for everybody.
Posted 73 months ago.
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on a related note, I had a request from a well known publisher, who wanted to use my photo and for me to sign that I had full copyright to a photo I took in a well known city.
Now I know that most cities require that commercial photographers pay a licence fee to use shots for commercial use. In my case, the publisher noticed a shot I had taken purely as a tourist. So I was not sure of my exact legal position and thus did not sign the copyright request. Was I being over cautious?
P.
Originally posted 73 months ago.
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Philippe and Angie edited this topic 73 months ago.
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I just wanted to post a follow-up to this thread. The book that photos were being collected for (Brides Behaving Badly: Wild Wedding Photos You Were Never Meant to See) is out ... and I hate to say this, but it's really disappointing. I'm sad for all of us who agreed to contribute.
1. Photo quality is very, very poor and super crunchy. Web photos should NOT be printed into book form if they're too low-res. I'd say at least a third of the photos in this book are totally crunched out.
2. The captions mock the subjects of the photos -- extra uncool since in this very thread the authors claimed the book wasn't going to be mean-spirited. I'm tellin' ya: almost every bride in the book is mocked for being weird, tacky, trashy, nerdy, brassy, drunk, etc.
3. Despite the subtitle ("Wild Wedding Photos You Were Never Meant to See") some of these pictures are very obviously NOT taken at weddings -- a few are blatantly halloween/costume shots.
Anyway -- just figured I'd follow up on the thread, since clearly a lot of us were contacted by these folks. I regret allowing one of my photos to be used, and will definitely be more careful about allowing editors to use my images in the future.
Originally posted 61 months ago.
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.Ariel edited this topic 61 months ago.
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Do the authors use paragraph breaks ever or is it just one long block of text?
Posted 61 months ago.
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I remember getting an email from them back then, asking to use this photo of me (which isn't a great quality scan, anyway). Thank goodness I told them I wasn't interested! I'm still amazed they were going to use the photo Dr. Fujitronic said they asked for - which isn't even a real person!
Posted 61 months ago.
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Yeah, you dodged a bullet FlyButtafly ...
Posted 61 months ago.
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