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I think it rather unlikely that CaptureNX will ever support someone else's sensor. Why would Nikon invest the resources? It doesn't make sense from a business standpoint.
Posted 4 months ago.
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Does any of the other manufacturer tools for their proprietary format support more than the absolut minimum? These things have just one purpose RAW in, TIF out.
Well CNX is a bit different as it is a pay tool. That's right, but one should rather see the RAW format as part of the system family. Any element should contribute to the strength of the whole. And for my own part I can say, CNX is a major reason to choose Nikon, but I'm biased of course.
And in the end, CNX opens 16-bit TIFs. That's not exactly RAW but very close and certainly good enough. The interpretation from RAW to TIF is quite a specialist thing.
Posted 4 months ago.
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Licht~Bild > And in the end, CNX opens 16-bit TIFs. That's not exactly RAW but very close and certainly good enough.
Quite so. My compact camera's a Ricoh GX100. I take DNG files off that, convert them to TIFF in Adobe and then process them in CNX2. It's long winded but gives good results.
Roger
Posted 4 months ago.
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The advantage of opening a RAW is often to bring back out of range highlights or out of gammut colours. The TIF does not help in this case.
Posted 4 months ago.
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No way, not a chance. To make it work well for Cannon (for example) would have to share detailed sensor information, camera cpu information and RAW data and all kinds of secrets with Nikon.
That will never happen. And I doubt Nikon would even want to. They have no desire to make Cannon shots look better. :)
Posted 4 months ago.
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Bring a Mercedes to a BMW dealer for a tune-up ....
Posted 4 months ago.
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I wish that there were a direct conversion from other formats to NEF so that at least I could still perform many (but not all) features that CNX has to offer, including Control Points.
As it is now, I have to convert my CR2 (Canon RAW) to TIF and from TIF to NEF. You can imagine this consumes a LOT of disk space. 15-20 meg CR2 files convert to about 45 meg TIFs.
The process DOES work, but what a hassle!
Posted 4 months ago.
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pohutukawa2008 says:
I wish that there were a direct conversion from other formats to NEF so that at least I could still perform many (but not all) features that CNX has to offer, including Control Points.
Capture NX works on two levels. First it has a RAW processing function. This is what's invoked and controlled in the "Develop" section. At this level, you are working not on an image but on subcomponents of an image. Your adjustments control how those subcomponents are then processed into an image.
The second level is post-processing. This is what's invoked and controlled in the "Adjust" section. At this level you are working on an image that has already been processed from RAW. You can import JPEGs or TIFFs and modify them using these functions. Control Points operate at this level. Thus you can bring in a TIFF or JPEG and use Control Points if you want. However bear in mind that you are then going to re-save a processed image and that will result in some amount of IQ degradation even if it's barely noticeable.
Now if you're asking for a way to translate from one RAW format to Nikon's RAW format, I wouldn't say that it's impossible but it's going to be a difficult task to create such a converter and I really doubt it will ever be done. You have to remember what RAW actually is. It is data taken from the sensor. Each sensor produces a different format of RAW file. Basically you would need to replicate/model the functionality of both sensors, feed the RAW data back through the engine that models the sensor which was used to create that RAW and then take those values and feed them into the Nikon-based sensor model engine to generate Nikon RAW data. I really don't see the value in this. The conversion process would be highly suspect in terms of accuracy.
Posted 4 months ago.
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WestLothian > The advantage of opening a RAW is often to bring back out of range highlights or out of gammut colours. The TIF does not help in this case.
It's not clear what this was a comment to but, if it was about the way I process raw files from my Ricoh, I'd deal with either matter in ACR when making the TIFF.
Roger
Originally posted 4 months ago.
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RogerGW edited this topic 4 months ago.
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WintrHawk >...bear in mind that you are then going to re-save a processed image and that will result in some amount of IQ degradation even if it's barely noticeable.
I know that's true for JPGs but does it also apply to TIFFs?
Roger
Posted 4 months ago.
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nx dude [deleted] says:
This ongoing desire to have Capture NX(2) be a do-all application is nothing short of mind boggling.
Nikon software is best for processing proprietary Nikon RAW files.
Canon software is best for processing proprietary Canon RAW files.
Are we seeing a pattern here?
NX is an NEF converter, at least that's all it should be.
Wanting all these extra features is just going to slow down what is already a dog of an application to begin with.
WestLothian, just purchase the application to suit your second camera and be done with it.
Get over it!!!
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I'm thinking that more people would buy capture nx if it could be used across multiple platforms.
Yeah...keeping software pigeonholed is so 90s. One of the reasons Google became an internet juggernaut, cultural catalyst, and corporate innovator is because they allowed their software to integrate amongst multiple platforms.
Eh...I'm thinking Google will eventually buy adobe and flickr, then integrate the entire photoshop creative suite and flickr with picassa, then give it free with a gmail account. Then, all other photo software will flop.
...but, who knows, maybe it won't take an hour to batch resize 20 pictures with nx3. So, there may be hope yet.
Posted 4 months ago.
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RogerGW says:
WintrHawk>...bear in mind that you are then going to re-save a processed image and that will result in some amount of IQ degradation even if it's barely noticeable.
I know that's true for JPGs but does it also apply to TIFFs?
Yes but not to the same extent as with JPEG. While the format itself is lossless and LZW compression if used is also lossless, there is still some loss. The reason is because every time you open a TIFF, you must map it to the raster of your display and this is where your DPI comes into play. As the TIFF is read in, it is translated to the native raster format which may or may not change the DPI. Either way, as you save it again, the new DPI takes effect and the information in your bitmap is then resampled and then saved back to the TIFF using the new DPI. While the conversion from your native bitmap to the saved filed can be lossless, the entirety of the process from original TIFF to display raster and newly saved TIFF may result in some small amount of loss. The only way to avoid any loss at all is to always edit your TIFF on the same computer and monitor combination using an OS which has a display driver that uses TIFF as a native raster. I know that Mac OSX uses TIFF as its native raster and there are possibly others. Windows uses BMP as its native raster.
Originally posted 4 months ago.
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WintrHawk edited this topic 4 months ago.
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WintrHawk > Yes but not to the same extent as with JPEG...
Many thanks. I didn't know that.
It makes sense to do as few TIFF saves as one can, by the sound of it. What about NEFs in Windows? Does the same problem arise?
Roger
Posted 4 months ago.
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RogerGW: What about NEFs in Windows? Does the same problem arise?
No. CNX never changes or resaves the original NEF. It keeps the original, saves the edit steps and renders the photo by applying the edit steps to the original.
In fact, a NEF file can be thought of as a container that can hold a JPEG, TIFF or NEF. If you have a TIFF and save it as a NEF, it is still a TIFF being stored in the NEF container. This allows the same preservation of the original as described in the first paragraph.
Posted 4 months ago.
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Barry Wallis > No. CNX never changes or resaves the original NEF
I think Nikon has complicated understanding by using the same term for its raw file format as for the files natively created using it. I assume the former applies here.
If so, then adding edit steps to an 'NRF' (Nikon raw file) surely creates a new NEF (file) or at least modifies the existing NEF? I've just opened one, made a small change and resaved it. Windows Explorer is showing a revised modification date.
What I'm trying to find out is if there would be any image degradation as a result, along the lines WintrHawk described for TIFFs.
Roger
Originally posted 4 months ago.
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RogerGW edited this topic 4 months ago.
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Barry Wallis says:
In fact, a NEF file can be thought of as a container that can hold a JPEG, TIFF or NEF.
Sorry. I don't mean to sound pedantic here but I think Barry Wallis meant to say, "JPEG, TIFF or RAW". Yep... one of the biggest benefits of containerising/encapsulating TIFFs or JPEGs into NEF is that you can work on them in a non-destructive manner. Many thanks for pointing that out. I personally only keep NEFs and publish JPEG or TIFF only for use and never for future editing (exception: intermediate temporary transfer to another editing tool) or preservation. If I have cameras (such as my point-and-shoots) which don't do RAW then I will import their pictures into CaptureNX and save them as NEFs which will encapsulate them and preserve them from further post-processing lossage.
Posted 4 months ago.
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RogerGW says:
What I'm trying to find out is if there would be any image degradation as a result, along the lines WintrHawk described for TIFFs.
As Barry Wallis says, NEF is a container format. It is not an image or RAW format. When you edit an NEF in CaptureNX, you only edit the metadata in the container.
NEF is meant to containerise four major components [0] Thumbnail JPEG - small version of the image in basic quality used by in-camera browsers and some other external browsers. It is processed against either in-camera settings or regenerated by RAW processor. It is recreated each time the NEF is updated.
[1] Preview JPEG - medium sized version of the image used by image browsers. Like the thumbnail JPEG, it is recreated each time the NEF is updated.
[2] Main Image/Data - This is either the RAW data or the main image file (JPEG or TIFF). This is never changed. Editing updates are made as notes in the MakerNotes section of the metadata (Nikon cameras, ViewNX or CaptureNX) or as an addendum sidecar (Photoshop and other third-party editors). When this main image/data is rendered each time, those edit steps are re-applied to it as if it were being processed/post-processed from scratch because in actuality it is.
[3] Metadata (EXIF, XMP, IPTC, MakerNotes) - holds information about the camera, lens, user custom data and processing steps.
Think of the NEF as a special styrofoam container that holds some meat. And also on the plastic shrinkwrapping is stuck a label containing recipe for how to cook that meat. Now this container is special because you never have to open it up to get meat out of it. As a matter of fact, it is so special in that you never actually get the actual meat out of it. Instead just by looking at the meat, you suddenly have meat to cook but the meat inside the container never disappears.
However, being that you are prone to forgetting how you like your meat cooked, you always keep a note of what preparation steps you took to cook that meat into a nice tasty steak. And luckily there is space on that label for you to jot down those notes. As a matter of fact, being that this container is so special and the label is so special, you can jot down as many versions of your recipe as you want. In this way, you can pull out that package of meat at anytime in the future and recook your meat any way you like it using past recipes as-is or you can modify them and resave them over the old recipes or add them as new ones.
Posted 4 months ago.
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8-)
But, to continue your ingenious analogy, since I never get the meat out of the container, whether it's cooked or not, I'm forced to become a vegetarian.
[Light bulb goes on] So that's what CNX stands for -- Cutlet, Nut Extra!
Roger
PS But you still haven't answered my question. Is there any image degradation when resaving NEFs, whatever they contain?
Posted 4 months ago.
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RogerGW says:
But, to continue your ingenious analogy, since I never get the meat out of the container, whether it's cooked or not, I'm forced to become a vegetarian.
You have to reread my analogy. The container is special. By looking at the meat that's encased in the shrinkwrap, you magically create a copy of it that you can cook and consume.
PS But you still haven't answered my question. Is there any image degradation when resaving NEFs, whatever they contain?
Nope. Because the main image or RAW data is never changed. You only change or add to the "recipe" for processing that data. Each time you open the NEF, the original RAW data is reprocessed (using the flagged "current" or last saved "recipe") into an image and then mapped to the display driver's native raster format so you can see it on your display.
Going back to my anology, you never take the shrinkwrap off the meat. You only view the meat and by doing so, you make a copy of the meat to work on using the recipe. Your end product is cooked from the copy of the meat you saw in under shrinkwrap. When you put the container back in the fridge (perform a save), you have only changed the notes you have scribbled onto the label.
Posted 4 months ago.
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Capture NX was also designed to open and work with JPG and TIF source files. Of course, you won't have the full set of features available compared to shooting NEF to begin with.
This is not a binary issue that some of you portray it to be.
There is a lot of functionality that is still available even when the original source file is not NEF.
"Getting over it" hardly solves anything.
Posted 4 months ago.
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WintrHawk >> PS But you still haven't answered my question. Is there any image degradation when resaving NEFs, whatever they contain?
>
>Nope.
Thanks. That's all I wanted to know.
I'll pass on the Schrödinger steak, if you don't mind. 8-)
Roger
Originally posted 4 months ago.
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RogerGW edited this topic 4 months ago.
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WintrHawk: As Barry Wallis says, NEF is a container format. It is not an image or RAW format. When you edit an NEF in CaptureNX, you only edit the metadata in the container.
That's more clear than my explanation. In the future when explaining this I will call the contained file a RAW file instead of a NEF file and will leave NEF for describing the container.
Posted 4 months ago.
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Barry Wallis > I will call the contained file a RAW file instead of a NEF file...
I think that will help but why "RAW" and not "raw"? I've often wondered why people write it that way. It's not an acronym.
Roger
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Everyone knows Tuppaware is the best container.
Posted 4 months ago.
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RogerGW: why "RAW" and not "raw"
The only answer I have is that it seems to be the convention.
Posted 4 months ago.
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Barry Wallis > The only answer I have is that it seems to be the convention.
I think you're right but it's an odd one. Also, it goes against the general and longer-established convention that something all in upper case is an acronym or an initialism (unless it's a trademarked affectation). Then again, a lot of people feel compelled to shorten Macintosh -- as in Apple's PC -- to "MAC". I still think of that as signifying the Media Access Control layer. 8-)
A quick look at some manufacturers' material suggests that Nikon, Canon, Kodak, Apple and Microsoft favour "RAW", whereas Adobe stays with "raw". A majority vote for, then, but no consensus.
[End of off-topic ramble]
Roger
Posted 4 months ago.
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RogerGW says:
Then again, a lot of people feel compelled to shorten Macintosh -- as in Apple's PC -- to "MAC". I still think of that as signifying the Media Access Control layer. 8-)
Heh... don't even get me started...
Thing is, much of the past "conventions" have gone out the window with regards to acronyms, abbreviations and shortened forms of names. Consider that Cisco writes the term "Mac" to mean "MAC". How's that for a head spinner? More and more so, you have to go by context and even then it can get confusing... sometimes moreso.
press#sh mac- int g0/1
Mac Address Table
-------------------------------------------
Vlan Mac Address Type Ports
---- ----------- -------- -----
1 000d.a201.3eaf DYNAMIC Gi0/1
Total Mac Addresses for this criterion: 1
Posted 4 months ago.
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Capture NX v1 refuses to open NEF files from my Nikon D5000. I am told I must instead fork out £120 to buy NX v2. Nikon has badly let us down To deal with this now I just shoot jpeg and continue to use NX1. A great shame because I much value the advantages of shooting NEF.
Michael JF Harrison
Posted 4 months ago.
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should be more like £67 for the NX1 >NX2 Upgrade
Posted 4 months ago.
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One way round the D5000/NX1 problem if you want to shoot NEF, is to open and process the NEFs in ViewNX v1.30, then convert them to JPEG or TIFF files for further post processing in CNX1 (if needed). View NX is a free download.
Posted 4 months ago.
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Michael JF Harrison says:
Capture NX v1 refuses to open NEF files from my Nikon D5000. I am told I must instead fork out £120 to buy NX v2. Nikon has badly let us down
Howso? CaptureNX1 was created and EOLed before the D5000 was released. Ever tried to view YouTube videos on an Apple][? Were you successful?
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nx dude [deleted] says:
Michael JF Harrison, just so the entire group understands what we're dealing with here.
You are expecting an old & obsolete application to support a piece of new hardware. Hardware that hadn't even been on the drawing board when NX was released.
The only one that let you down, was you.
You might consider doing some basic research next time. That, and a bit of common sense, will avoid future disappointment.
It's common knowledge that ACR requires upgrading too, to support new cameras.
This is like expecting Windows 3.11 out of the box to support USB.
Download the 60-day trial version of NX2.0, and get on with it.
If you're anti-research, then I'll give you a heads-up;
Don't bother with the v2.2 LEMON of NX, as that will only give you another reason to whinge and complain, being English and all. ;-)
Posted 4 months ago.
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It seems off-topic but did anyone of you ever try to open a TAXCUT file you saved 7 years ago ??
Do you even have such an old TAXCUT program -- I doubt it will run under XP because Mordorsoft killed much backward compatibility with their SP2 release
Now back to the issue of photos -- imagine 7 years from now, you run Windows 10 -- and Windows 10 and Capture NX5 are just fine and dandy supporting your D8. But what about a D3 or a Coolpix 5700. And what if you want to review 20+ year old files ?
I have a stack of tapes and a matching tape-drive -- but no XP-driver to support this so my backups are totally lost. Maybe if I can revive a W95 or W3.1 installation ...
I cannot even read the work I wrote at colleague because that program isn't WINDOZE compatible !!
Similar an EDA company pulled the rug under my feet by making a perpetual license last only 5 years. Or look at AMAZON, revoking all the George Orwell books from their KINDLE-readers. I JUST LOVE THE IRONY of that.
In contrast -- I found a strip of films approx 35 years old. Scanned it, refurbished it digitally and it is usable.
Originally posted 4 months ago.
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stargazer95050 edited this topic 4 months ago.
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