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i'm almost sure i recently heard that... but when i searched i couldn't find anything on it
Posted 81 months ago.
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Don't see anything on their website but google found a seemingly official letter regarding the ban here:
www.photo.net/oped/mtaban/
(search for mbta)
Posted 81 months ago.
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Photography is banned, unless you have a permit. I went into more detail in this discussion:
www.flickr.com/groups/35237094528@N01/discuss/9284/#comme...
Posted 81 months ago.
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sigh:-(
Europe, here I come!
Posted 81 months ago.
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I went and got a permit once -- the highlight of the whole 30 days of permit ownership was when I casually flashed it upon being approached by an angry employee. Personally, I don't think it's worth the hassle.
On a semi-related note, I've gotten yelled at by a security guard who thought I was photographing a "government building." I was taking a picture of a squirrel.
Oh, what a world.
Posted 81 months ago.
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Even if Photography is banned in an area like the "T", they can't force you by any means to delete the images on your camera. You actually should have had them call the cops. It would have been inconvenient and time consuming, but you didn't break any law, just a rule on the "T" which is not the law. ALl they can do is force you to leave the premises.
By the way, there is nothing in the Patriot Act about limiting where someone can take photos.
Originally posted 76 months ago.
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Violentz edited this topic 76 months ago.
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Two years ago, a muslim student was detained by the secret service on the Boston College Campus because his friends were taking snapshots of the dorms where the secret service was staying. (It was during the elections and some event was happening there that weekend.)
So yeah, detained, questioned, and according to him verbally intimidated, i.e. "Do you know what we do to people like you?", etc.
Posted 76 months ago.
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At a railfan site I found this information about the T:
Response from MBTA Customer Service: Two visits to the MBTA Marketing Department located in room 6720 at Ten Park Plaza, 6th floor, Monday through Friday between the hours of 8:30 A.M. and 4:30 P.M. is required to obtain a permit (once to apply, and once to pick up the permit after a background check is performed.) Two forms of picture ID required for identification. The photo permit is free of charge and it is good for one month. Please feel free to call Carol Timberlake at 617-222-1579. All persons are required to abide by MBTA regulations and requests by station personnel.
Of course, none of this will stop any terrorists. All it does is harass legitimate photographers and tourists.
Posted 76 months ago.
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Irish Hermit, where did you get your information? I can't find anything about the T photo permit stating that it has anything to do with stopping terrorists.
Posted 76 months ago.
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My remark about terrorist is my personal, editorial comment. :) Three times this summer I saw T employees tell people to stop taking pictures at the Harvard MBTA station.
Two of those incidents were with video cameras, and one was with a still camera. In all three incidents, the photographers were young, college age people (tourists? freshmen at Harvard?) taking pictures of their friends or family in the station.
In two of the incidents, the T employee used the word "terrorist" when asked why they couldn't take pictures. Only once did the T employee tell them politely it was a safety issue and they needed a permit. He also told them where to get it.
All I want to do is take a few pictures of the T stations in and around the neighborhood where I grew up and where my grandparents lived when they came to America.
Under the old rules, you only had to go in town once for the permit. It was issued when you applied. Now you have to go back and pick it up after they do a background check. For someone like me, an amateur and hobbyist photographer, the new rules a real pain in the a**. To take pictures on weekend, I have to take two days off work to get a permit. When I called to find out if they'd mail it to me I was told no. And the reason for the background check? The person on the phone said it was to check for terrorists.
Originally posted 76 months ago.
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Big Dog Video edited this topic 76 months ago.
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Yes, as if a terrorist can't just take out a cellphone camera and snap a dozen photos without anyone noticing. Why would a terrorist want to take a photo in a subway anyway? They would just drop a bomb off.
Posted 76 months ago.
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Thanks for the explanation. Sounds as if using the word terrorist is mainly a way for bureaucrats and cop wannabees to justify their actions.
Posted 76 months ago.
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I was at the Aquarium stop a few months ago, about to shoot something, when security appeared and told me to put my camera away because, and I quote, "You could be a terrorist for all we know."
Right, dude. *sigh*
Posted 76 months ago.
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The reason why I didn't have them call the cops is that I'm not a citizen and I know it causes problems. It's not worth it - at least it wasn't worth it to me at that point.
Posted 76 months ago.
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the driver of this train STOPPED the train to tell me to stop taking pictures.
Posted 76 months ago.
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Yes, you look a very dangerous person TeeveesBella. ;)
Posted 76 months ago.
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Got into a discussion with a driver on the green line last week. (I didn't have my camera out just then, but he saw my buddy had his tripod with him.) That particular driver said he didn't care if people take pics on the platforms, but not in the tunnels as the train is moving. We arrived at our stop before I could ask him why he drew that distinction. My buddy's theory on the ban in general- the T doesn't want us to document how crappy it looks! :P
Originally posted 75 months ago.
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3rd Coast Chick edited this topic 75 months ago.
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Good observation 3rd Coast Chick. I think you maybe onto something. I've haven't taken any shots of the T yet, but I think I just may raise a fuss. I can see the idea of not flashing the drivers as they may not be able to see a person crossing the tracks.
Posted 75 months ago.
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Well luckily the folks at Dunky's have more important things on their minds!
Posted 75 months ago.
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The way it's been desribed to me (by many photographers and security people) is that it is safe to take photos anywhere declared as "public" in any stretch of the definition. If you look around you and see that a large number of people can easily see what you are taking a photo of, then more than likely you can photograph it (save perhaps other people's art).
If you can see it, you can photograph it.
I understand that a lot of security people have been told to watch out for people using documentation tools (still/movie cameras, etc.). True, that in many circumstances it can look a little sketchy (us taking photos of random things in the MBTA --see my example). But truly there is no LAW that prohibits us from taking photos. The worst that can happen is that a newby cop is called and he brings you in, only to subsquently be berraded by his superiors for wasting everyone's time.
Photo of a broken light in a bus terminal at Harvard Square.
Posted 75 months ago.
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The MBTA has their own police...and all they can legally do is make you leave their property if you refuse to obey their rule.
Posted 75 months ago.
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I agree with '3rd Coast Chick'.
The green line is a decaying, nasty hellhole straight from satan's bottom.
Maybe they don't want the world outside of Boston knowing how 'Ewwwww' their subway is.
I think that arguing with some employees or T police could only cause more trouble for you though.
Posted 75 months ago.
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What do you know...you're British !
Posted 75 months ago.
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I so far had no problems at all. I took the commuter rail to bostonand the conductor walked by me, not bothering to glance at me. i also got pix of n. station and i got funny looks but that was about it. check my pix and you'll see.
Posted 75 months ago.
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coming to this late, but, elinesca, it's the same in europe. the London Underground also bans photos, i've heard it's the same in Paris, too.
you can still get away with it if you pay attention and time it right.
Posted 75 months ago.
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Today's Boston Globe has an article on photography on the MBTA. The ACLU threatens to sue over limits to photographing the T. Read more at: tinyurl.com/fcxeo
Posted 73 months ago.
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Photography is protected by the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. It also happens to be protected by the 16th Article of the Massachusetts Constitution. Nobody in their right mind would entertain the idea of applying for a permit to associate with their friends. Not in America. At least not yet.
For the same reason, I did not apply for an application to take photographs on the MBTA. It's a civil right. It's already mine.
After being stopped and interrogated by MBTA police for photography in the subway last month, after weeks of hounding the MBTA to actually disclose, in writing, what their policy IS on photography on the subway without a permit, after a dozen (or so) unanswered emails and about as many unreturned phone calls, this morning I spoke to Mary Logalbo, an MBTA lawyer. She specializes in Constitutional law.
Apparently Mrs. Logalbo obtained permission from the MBTA Deputy Police Chief Paul MacMillan to fax me a DRAFT COPY of their photography policy. It expressly allows amateur photography on the MBTA but requires that you provide ID upon request, photography of the subject cannot pose a security risk, the activity of shooting cannot disrupt MBTA operations and the pictures must be for strictly non-commercial use only.
No more background check.
No more one-month expiration.
John Reinstein and the ACLU deserve a lot of credit for forcing the MBTA to reconsider the policy and put it on legally defensible footing. Note the "original issue date" of 2006 -- this policy was likely written in response to Reinstein's letter to MBTA Police Chief Joseph Carter in June of that year. All my yapping did, I suspect, is get me a copy of the draft before anyone else.
You can find a copy of the draft policy here.
Posted 63 months ago.
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100/6 [deleted] says:
hmmm...this happen to me today. and today just happened to be my very first visit to boston. the cop was nice about it....he just asked if i had a permit and when he saw the stunned look on my face he said to put the camera away. i guess he didnt realize i had already taken like 20 pictures or that for the last 45 minutes i was aimlessly wondering around with my camera out. the picture below is the picture i took as he walked up to me asking for a permit.
Originally posted 63 months ago.
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100/6 edited this topic 63 months ago.
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The revised no-permit policy was made official July 11, 2007, but the MBTA has not publicized the fact. The new policy is available online from the MBTA Police here. It's probably a good idea to carry a paper copy with you when photographing the T, as there are sure to be employees who don't know about the official policy.
Originally posted 49 months ago.
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Steven Keirstead edited this topic 49 months ago.
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Thanks Steven. Being new here I had heard about this mess and couldn't believe how stupid it was. I've been waiting to get some shots of the commuter rail coming through town.
i'll stick a copy of that in the gear bag now and shoot away.
Posted 49 months ago.
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i was stopped so many times.. sometime u just gotta hurry and take shots!!
oh, copley tower also dont allow photography!!
and one time i was taking a macro picture of a little tree and a macro of the side of the building .. which i was probably 2 centimeter away from the subject .. some guy from liberty mutual building came out and told me to stop taking picture n said there company dont like people taking picture of thier building .. i wasnt even inside!!!!
its crazy !! i dont know now which place i cant take pictures and which place i can!!
Posted 49 months ago.
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if you're on "public property" usually you're Ok.. Just because liberty mutual (for example) doesn't like it, doesn't mean they can do anything other than call the cops and ask you to leave. MBTA is a government entity so the usual rules don't always apply.
If you're shooting in public, better to ask forgiveness than permission.
:)
Posted 49 months ago.
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D (Moved to DianeJoyPhoto) [deleted] says:
[ Other thread is here ]
THANK YOU to p0larbare for noticing, along with me, the segment last night on "The Colbert Report" for catching Amtrak Photographers --
Nailed Em - Amtrak Photographer
Originally posted 40 months ago.
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D (Moved to DianeJoyPhoto) edited this topic 40 months ago.
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As a registered Libertarian and card carrying member of the ALCU - I just can't help but get involved in photographer's rights. What happened to Duane is inexcusable. Unfortunately it will get worse. :(
Originally posted 40 months ago.
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Bradford Moore (p0larbare) edited this topic 40 months ago.
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D (Moved to DianeJoyPhoto) [deleted] says:
HERE is also the actual news story [that Colbert Report was spoofing] >>
greatergreaterwashington.org/post.cgi?id=1655
Posted 40 months ago.
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Anyone know if the photo policy helpfully linked by Steven above is still valid, or have they since updated it or something?
Posted 40 months ago.
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yes it is. you can still download a copy via the link as well.
Posted 40 months ago.
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Thanks for posting that Colbert Report segment. That was great. Funny thing is, a couple weeks before this guy was arrested I was at Penn Station taking pictures. Man that could have been me in the story.... I was actually encouraged by Amtrak staff to walk around and take pictures during a 1/2hr stop over.
Posted 40 months ago.
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This post is still relevant. I was stopped by 5 transit policeman (1 woman) today by the south station commuter rail entrance (under the oning). I had my camera out and wasn't even taking pictures, I was walking through to my gym (BSC).
She walked right up next to me and said "hi there," how you doing today? I said good, and she asked me "what are you up to today?" and I said "heading to the gym" LOL. She then said "nice camera there, what pictures are you taking today?" I said "oh just anything I find interesting."
She then said "do you do this for a living?" and this time, I know she is totally trying to catch me on having a camera on MBTA property. I said "no, just for fun, non-commercial so I shouldn't need a permit do i?" she then said "ooh, no no - can I see some of your pictures?" and I said "you may not" and offered to show her my picture ID. She then said "oh no, it's okay - we're just asking everyone today."
Asking everyone today? What the hell does that mean? So after my gym workout, I walked by the area again just to spite them. LOL.
Know your rights! - and MBTA policy.
Posted 40 months ago.
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Damn I wish I had mine today just to go South Station with it on my arm and see what happens. I'd love to have them try to start something without my even taking pictures at all. What, it's cause for suspicion now to just CARRY a camera around?
Posted 40 months ago.
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Nice post nathantia, in fact I think this thread will become more relevant, not less in future. I think you handled the situation great except IMO you could have been more matter of fact that "for fun, non- commercial, I do NOT need a permit" - leave no doubt that you know you rights in a friendly manner of course. What saddens me is the fact they stopped you (#1) and that she said "we're just asking everyone today" (#2). As non-commercial photography is allowed in and around the MBTA there is no reason that you having a camera out of taking pics should even give them enough worry to come over.
Also a good reason to print out the MBTA's policy and stuff it in your camera bag, just in case.
thanks for sharing!
Posted 40 months ago.
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Interesting that the MBTA policy begins by saying that it applies to people wishing to take photographs "on, in or of MBTA property, vehicles and employees." Leaving aside the bit about taking photographs "in" T employees (!?), this seems to be overreaching. I don't see how their policy can apply to photographing T property or equipment if you're on public property.
Maybe we should organize an MTBA photowalk. I'd love to see boston photographers descend on the T in force.
Originally posted 40 months ago.
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Steve Wollkind edited this topic 40 months ago.
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LOL. I'd be up for that. Ha ha. Trust me p0larbare, I have a copy of the policy stuffed in my camera bag. I just didn't have my camera bag with me!
Posted 40 months ago.
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hehe.. ok, so that should be a two part rule.. have a copy AND have it with you. :)
On an interesting side note for those people that have been following Mike Anzaldi's bullpoop arrest in Chicago. And if you haven't, you should be.
discarted.wordpress.com/2009/02/10/court-clears-chicago-p...
Originally posted 40 months ago.
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Bradford Moore (p0larbare) edited this topic 40 months ago.
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Here's the link to the MBTA transit police "photography policy and procedures." In short, taking pictures on "MBTA properties" is allowed as long as the pictures are for personal use.
transitpolice.us/Photo Policy/Photo Policy 1.pdf
Posted 35 months ago.
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Nice post nathantia, in fact I think this thread will become more relevant, not less in future. I think you handled the situation great except IMO you could have been more matter of fact that "for fun, non- commercial, I do NOT need a permit" - leave no doubt that you know you rights in a friendly manner of course. What saddens me is the fact they stopped you (#1) and that she said "we're just asking everyone today" (#2). As non-commercial photography is allowed in and around the MBTA there is no reason that you having a camera out of taking pics should even give them enough worry to come over.
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