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The most thorough overview of this topic I've ever read is here.
Personally, I usually use the channel blending technique with a couple rules of thumb: shooting people, go for more red. Shooting landscapes: more green.
Posted 94 months ago.
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i agree. i think of red as being about tone and green being about detail. although i usually increase contrast for people to make lines a little stronger, as the heavy red seems to difuse strong lines. for landscapes i do this www.flickr.com/groups_topic.gne?id=4113#comment21989
Posted 94 months ago.
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i heard an interesting discussion on public radio... a woman was saying that the pop artists discovered that equal luminance in color prints (red text on a green background) makes the text appear to dance around. if you looked at the same print in b&w you wouldnt be able to see the text.
Posted 94 months ago.
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I found this one to be not nearly as in depth, but still quite useful as a starting point.
Posted 94 months ago.
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Grayscale and when asks, DONT FLATTEN. Then you can hide and un-hide your layer to compare the two and see if you should go with your coversion or photoshops. 98% of the time I prefer my conversion.
Posted 93 months ago.
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wtf? I type a really long post...grrrr.
Short End: Use channel mixer in Photoshop and click monochrome. Keep the total of the %'s under 100% to avoid blown out highlights.
Posted 93 months ago.
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Whoa.. I'm not supposed to just click "convert to black & white"? I had no idea... this is like drinking instant coffee your whole life and then finding out about fresh coffee beans! I want to know more, but your link seems to be broken matt, could you check it please? Thanks!
Posted 92 months ago.
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now arriving: google cache of the legendary dpfwiw digital black and white tutorial. enjoy:
digital black and white
Posted 92 months ago.
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Designed a website once where the buttons were red and green. Stop/go you know. It looked OK until someone asked why everything looked so drab and grey.
Apparently he was colour blind and red and green are almost indistinguishable from each other, and appear as grey.
Posted 92 months ago.
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I use channel mixer in photoshop all the time..gives me the best control over all channels
Posted 92 months ago.
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Channel Mixer on an ajustment layer is awesome. I started messing around with that today and it gives WAY better results than just desaturate.
Here's a brief overview of what I did:
www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/b-w_better.shtml
Posted 92 months ago.
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I usually use several channel mixer as layers and matte out unwanted sections on each one..also try multiplying yr layer for some strong blacks
Posted 92 months ago.
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Nachosan: You care to post a link to a psd so I can see what you are talking about. You can use a scaled down version of crummy image that you don't care about. I just want to see the technique. I don't know what you mean by matte out sections. It that like a layer mask?
Posted 92 months ago.
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hey easement! I suppose I should have specified a bit more what I meant by matting out unwanted sections - I am talking about layer mask; as you probably have encountered, you can't always get all the levels exactly where you might want them using one layer; sometimes you start getting blown out sections somewhere in the photo as you try to adjust let's say the bkg; so I use one channel mixer for the bkg, and get that exactly to where I want it, and then I'll create another layer with another channel mixer to adjust the foreground, and matte the bkg out in that particular layer mask. I'm also big into layering everyday photos of textures such as stained concrete, or rust and stuff and multiplying them for added variety and richness in tones and lighting
Posted 92 months ago.
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I want to thank all of you, here in this discussion, for leading me to a whole new chapter in my photo-editing. I followed those links and learned ALOT! I am only at the beginning of a long journey...
Thanks!!!!!!!
Posted 91 months ago.
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Nachosan - thanks so much for talking about the uses of layer masking for the channel mixer - I'll have to try that!
Posted 91 months ago.
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I juts came accross this site: www.dynamicartwork.com/articles/digital_bw.php
it's got some killer tutorials on converting to BW in digital-really worth a look! enjoy!
Posted 91 months ago.
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PS. This PS filter for converting looks pretty nice: www.fredmiranda.com/shopping/BW
it appears to give you all the steps all bundled into one nice little window; it even gives you options for applying film grain as per ISO's and only for $30, hummm!
Posted 91 months ago.
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Here's the technique I use. There's a Photoshop action for download as well.
www.slower.net/slowerlog/2004/09/bw-conversion.php
I find it gives me good control over the inky blackness level without loss of midrange.
Posted 91 months ago.
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I use nik Color Efex Pro 2.0, a Photoshop Filter Application. More info can be found at www.nikmultimedia.com, it gives you the ultimate control over contrast, channel reproduction, RGB to greyscale conversion, and luminosity. I always used the Adjustment Layer - Channel Mixer approach but the nik filter set works even better IMO.
Posted 91 months ago.
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slower -- your method is my favorite. the response is a lot more predictable, and yields a better tonal range than simply going to Lab color and leaving it. channel mixer's a pain in the ass.
Posted 91 months ago.
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I used the technique from slowernet's post and came up with this:
Easy method of Image > Mode > Grayscale:
Optimized method:
Posted 91 months ago.
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The channel mixer method gives you more control for sure, but there's this little plugin called Virtual Photographer.. it's free, supports Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro and gives you quite a lot of presents and tweaking ability.
Gives interesting results. I use this mostly, saves a lot of time and gives great results.
Did I mention it's free... ;-)
Posted 90 months ago.
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I downloaded a Photoshop action that does a pretty good job of converting to black and white.
www.outdooreyes.com/photo51.php3
The nice thing about the action is that it leaves you with two layers, and you can adjust the opacity of the high-contrast layer to get it to look like you want. Plus its free.
Posted 89 months ago.
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A related question. My camera can be set to take B&W. I've been reasonably pleased with the results, but I'm shaky on the technicalities. Am I likely to get better results this way, or by starting with a colour image? Bearing in mind I'm a photoshop novice...
And here's one I took recently
I would really appreciate your comments about this set and how I could improve my B&W shots
Posted 89 months ago.
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I found this guys technique makes some nice results.
www.animalu.com/pics/process.htm
Posted 85 months ago.
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Does anybody find that you get a strange midtone grey when converting colour to black & white in PS. I used to get the same thing when using colour negatives and printing on black & white paper. It works quite well but never as good as the real thing.
Posted 85 months ago.
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Re: The photoshop tool lazaro found. I downloaded it and here are the results. I'm pleased with it. It's simple to use and looks pretty good. and like the man says, it's free.
Before
:
And after:
I cropped it myself, that's not a result of using the tool.
Good spot lazaro.
Posted 85 months ago.
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To Shooz: when your camera takes a B&W image it's discarding all the colour info according to its own settings, and you have no control over them yourself. You can tweak contrast and brightness in Photoshop or iPhoto etc, but yes, you WOULD be better off taking a colour shot and playing with the various techniques mentioned here to see what you prefer.
Speaking of which, here's the technique I've been using most, recently. Create a Hue/Saturation adjustment layer and remove ALL the saturation, giving a basic B&W image.
Select the original background layer again and create ANOTHER Hue/Saturation adjustment layer (make sure it appears BETWEEN the background and the first H/S layer!). Now adjust the Hue setting on this layer to give varying tones of B&W.
I saved this process as an action, and set it to stop and present the dialog box for the Hue adjusting bit. Works a treat!
I find this gives great results, similar to channel mixer, but without all the faffing with 3 sliders, just 1. Of course, channel mixer has the advantage of being able to blow certain channels to create more dramatic effects. Depends what you want to do!
O.
Posted 85 months ago.
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viekasjapitkahantainen [deleted] says:
The basic question appears to be which wavelength of light gets high luminosity values and which one low ones. We have BW films with varying sensitivity, various filters for this purpose but until now there has not been anything as powerful as the Photoshoptype of postprocessing tools to tweak the images according to taste of intuition.
The combination of channelmixers with layer masks seems to be the most versatile tool as long as one knows what he wants. Probably, one could attach curves to REALLY go for the wanted colours and hues, to make them stand up.
Thus far, channel mixer does the job for me.
I work in JPEG for the net so no big deal here, no artistic ambitions.
But later...
Posted 85 months ago.
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The question "what is the best method?" is really best-answered as "paying attention." :) Every technique has strengths, but looking for a single method is to attempt shoehorning every foot into the same worn sneaker. Different pix need different approaches.
Personally I almost always use the channel mixer - I hit ctrl-1,2,3 to look at the channels quickly, seeing where the interesting detail is and then drop-on a channel-mixer layer. Occasionally if there are multiple areas that I feel look best with varying conversions, I'll make a selection first, load the channel mixer (so it only converts the selected area), re-select from the new layer's mask, invert selection, and add a second conversion for the rest of the pic.
And curves can't be beat.
(I like Eliot's conversion but it forces a particular color-weighting onto the pic -- the L of LAB is about 70% green, 20% red, 10% blue. Nearly identical to just "convert to grayscale." This is similar to just shooting B&W film, especially if you leave your digicam locked on "sunlight" white balance, but why restrict yourself?)
Every method has potential, when applied with some thought.
Posted 85 months ago.
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I convert in several ways (some of which undoubtably already mentioned, but I'm too lazy to read through all 31 comments =p), including converting to greyscale. With that method I always adjust both levels and curves and it produces a nice rich b&w photo.
The channels, I think someone has already mentioned, is another great way.
Also, although not proper for all photos, the gradient map set to duo tone b&w works wonderfully.
Posted 85 months ago.
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here's my fav method, esp using it to do the "split-toning" effect. a bit involved (make a pshop action), but gives the photo much more depth than a basic grayscale conversion. experiment with the "color balance" sliders.
www.computer-darkroom.com/tutorials/tutorial_2_1.htm
Posted 85 months ago.
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Imaging factory's B/W Converter Pro filter.
Posted 85 months ago.
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One can combine using either (or both) Channel Mixer layers or Virtualphotog on layers, coupled with layer masks and localized selections in Photoshop. There is no reason you have to limit yourself to using one filter or one method for the entire photo.
Posted 85 months ago.
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My camera... being that it's cheaper or what ever you want to call it, has three different color modes, b&w and sepia being the different ones from color... the reasult is very nice... but nothing like my 35mm pictures.
Posted 85 months ago.
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By leaps and bounds, the best method for digital B/W conversion I've found is the so-called "Rob Carr" method, explained here.
It avoids the mudiness you can get from channel mixing, creating beautiful rich tones while keeping contrast.
It takes a bit more time (maybe a minute once you get the hang of it), but so worth it.
And of course, a curves adjustment layer is a perennial must.
Posted 84 months ago.
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I usually create adjustment layers or even copies of background and blend them....
To adjust details I use burn and dodge tools in an appropriate opacity and in many cases in a different layer so I can also blend it.. and for that I use 50% gray and blend it as soft light so it doest ruin other adjustments...
I'm no expert in photoshop but thats how I get by :-p
Posted 84 months ago.
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I'm surprised nobody mentioned Calculations (under the image menu in Photoshop). It seems to be the most flexible single process for b&w.
The conversion is just a starting point, though. Sometimes I have to do two or three different conversions and merge them together with masks to get the look I want. This has much in common with Petteri's method, but uses calculations as a building block instead of the raw color channels.
Channel mixer is good too, but it can clip your shadows or highlights if you're not very careful. Whenever I see totally crushed shadows I always imagine it's the result of trying to get too much contrast out of the channel mixer.
Posted 84 months ago.
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I'm wondering about creating the silvery tones which a true b&w print will often have. Anyone know how to do this with PS?
Posted 83 months ago.
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You could try making a duotone. Use Black and a Warm Grey or Silver.
Posted 83 months ago.
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tritone works for sylvery look, but it's a bit of work to do ( try black, a greenish tone and a redish tone)
Posted 83 months ago.
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I know this will make me sound like a n00b, but I've tried the de-saturate, the channel-mixer, and some other methods...but I just got iLife '05 and by tinkering with the tools built into iPhoto, I get nearly comparable results. At least as far as MY inexperienced eyes go. Any comments about iPhoto's capabilities?
Posted 83 months ago.
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oceanfrog [deleted] says:
I use petteri sulonen's method:
194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/How_to/n_Digital_BW/a_Digital...
Posted 83 months ago.
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Hi oceanfrog,
this is a great tutorial.
It shows how great the possibilies are if you take digital pictures in colour and make it b&w afterwards.
As an old, and long time not practiced, b&w enthusiast, with long hours in the darkroom, I really appreciate what digital processing can do.
It is great technology with unbelievable potential for creativity !
Posted 83 months ago.
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I use channel mixer + contrast + curves. basically.
Posted 83 months ago.
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I've used mostly channel mixer and than curves and other tools too if they're needed.
Petteri's method sounds interesting, I think that I'll give it a try :)
Posted 83 months ago.
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hi gregkendallball,
iPhoto, which I'm assuming is using desaturate, does indeed do well. Most of the time, I desaturate, tinker with the curves/contrast/exposure/brightness until it's good then add a sharpen. 95% of the time, that's good enough. If I want to do something unusual with the channels, I'll go the whole hog.
Petteri's method looks interesting though!
Posted 83 months ago.
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Interesting... so if I'm to understand correctly, shooting with a digital camera in B&W mode does not create an original B&W image, but rather applies edits to a color image? Not analagous to film at all then. Is the same true for other digital camera settings such as contrast, saturation, etc.?
Posted 83 months ago.
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alex,
The sensor in a digital camera detects colour information, regardless of the camera setting. If the B&W setting is on, the camera takes the colour information and combines the colours in some standard, average way and saves the resulting greyscale image. (It's a terrible way to produce B&W images, in my view.)
Similarly, other settings will be applied to the image before it's saved...
... except if you're shooting RAW, in which case some settings will be saved as separate pieces of data along with the RAW image data.
Posted 83 months ago.
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Interesting... I was assuming that taking it black and white in the first place would result in the least degradation of picture quality (as would be true with film). I will have to modify my approach!
Posted 83 months ago.
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alex,
Using the B&W setting on your camera shouldn't result in a more "degraded" image (in the sense of detail, resolution and tonal range) but it would certainly reduce the range of options available to you.
For a discussion of this stuff, see this thread.
Posted 83 months ago.
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I've used this in another thread on this subject too and had good response.
When you do the color to b&w conversion after the fact using a computer you can get countless variations. You can put color filters over the image - as in traditional - you can add grain, adjust contrast etc. There are literally 100s of ways to do black and white photos and each unique.
Mastering or at least exploring these techniques and choosing a few are highly recommended since they will allow you to express your own individual feeling and vision. Why would you let the camera's built in b&w option rob you of this oppertunity?
Below see an image done in different methods and different settings using photoshop, I don't think we will ever agree on which is the best. But I hope at least we can agree that by not taking the oppertunity to do this post processing you will be doing yourself no favours.
EDIT: woops, only noticed now that the post right above mine links to the other thread where I put this sample. Can't hurt to have it both places though I hope :)
Posted 83 months ago.
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original
B&W conversion with Virtual Photographer.
Thanks to Saad Akhtar post above
B&W conversion with Rob Carr action for PS.
Thanks to ckemp post above
Posted 83 months ago.
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