7ª CU-1-31-06 /Amaya-C 8:09pm, 8 September 2013
Hello. My name is Luis Ciaran and enjoyed a nine meters Achilles.
It is a model built by Prior and Son in 1977.
His first name was "Iliac" SSR 26244. Currently is AMAYA-C.
Now I have a big problem. The rudder is loose. The lower bolt is missing. I uploaded some pictures to Flickr.
I need to know how to remove the rudder.
Maybe you can help me.
thanks
spearhead_027 5 years ago
Hello, Luis, and welcome to the forum. I am trying to think where the CU in your registration number stands for, but it isn't coming to me (yet). All Achilles boats were moulded by Butler Mouldings in Gowerton, Swansea, so strictly speaking she cannot have been built by Prior & Son, but it is possible, although most unusual, that she was completed professionally by them. We must scrutinise Butlers' build list to see if we can identify the original hull number.

The arrangement for the bottom of the skeg seems to have evolved over the first two years of building 9m's, so it's not possible to give definite directions for removing the remains of the pintle, However, the glassfibre down there is just to smooth the water flow around the steel framework of the skeg itself and it is quite safe to cut into it with an anglegrinder until you come to the metal (and of course you can use fillers and glass-fibre paste to cover it up again afterwards). You will then have to look for the ends of steel pins or big screws in the skeg - it may be possible to spot some or all of them from the outside before you even start to use the anglegrinder, in which case the job is much easier. Drive out the pins or undo the screws, and the lower end of the skeg will come down. You can leave the rudder in, held up by the fitting at the top, while you measure up for a replacement bar and bolt to make the new pintle.
There are some photo's of other 9m pintle arrangements in the Group's photostream, I recall, but looking them up now will delay this even further! Best wishes - it is basically a simple operation.
Ian
Hi Ian. Thank you for your prompt response.

My Achilles was registered for the first time in Ceuta. (CU).
Actually not where it was built.
Old documents say the construction country is USA, and the shipyard is R.J.Prior & Son, and the hull serial number is: 32994
spearhead_027 5 years ago
Luis - if Amaya-C is indeed an Achilles 9m then I'm afraid very little reliance can be placed on your old documents but certainly the skeg photo's look like a 9m or 840, which has the same arrangement.
Perhaps you can keep an eye open for numbers written on the back of plywood panels, such as the roof lining, seat fronts, or sliding doors. If the boat was finished by Butlers, their carpenters used to scribble the hull number on such panels as they fitted them (and also in more difficult-to-see places) and this is now the only way to positively identify them, as Butlers never moulded them into the gelcoat. The number you are looking for probably has just 3 digits, beginning with a zero, written in thick pencil.
If your boat was "finished" by Priors, then probably such traces don't remain.
Ian
spearhead_027 5 years ago
P.S: You'll need a big washer on the new pintle to spread the load over the foot of the rudder blade.
pjbharrison 5 years ago
The hole in the bracket look very big compared to the pintle hole in the rudder. Is there a bearing missing too? The hole looks round and not oval from wear.
b.mercer 5 years ago
I imagine R.J.Prior & Sons ,who are well known boat builders in Burnham on Crouch, might be able throw some light on the history of the boat. Perhaps sight of the old paperwork would help. It is still a family business. Raced at Burnham a week ago on a Dehler 39sq in the Town Cup. Came 2nd by 21secs after 6 hours due to a wind shift at the very end.
spearhead_027 5 years ago
Paul - I agree that it does look odd. I had it down as just a circular welding failure round the foot of the pin, but perhaps there was something else in between. There now seems to be no option but to cut that section away and weld in a new solid bit.

Bob - is there any chance of you dropping into Priors; you seem to be the nearest? The owner is in SE Spain, after all...

Luis - I've had a look for pictures of other people's skeg arrangements, but can't find many, so I've put four pictures of mine into my own Photostream page. The others are:-
Super Snoopy 050 - built in 1979 with the later arrangement;
frankoh2012 - his boat built in 1978 is called Yark Ushka. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have found the right way to remove the skeg foot and just cut it clean off with a grinder. Looking at his photo's, I suspect that he actually had the same arrangement as Super Snoopy, but didn't look high enough to find the joint. You'll just have to tap around with a small hammer and investigate wherever it sounds more metallic or different. After that it should be a fairly straightforward cutting and welding job without actually needing to drop the rudder. The shaft up through the hull is much the same length as the rudder blade so you need to get a big lift of the whole boat to get it out!
Do ask if you come across any other problems (and let us know what you find!).
Ian.
b.mercer 5 years ago
I am tempted to look at a Hustler 25.5 for sale near Burnham so will try Prior's at the same time. A scan of any Prior documents sent to my Flickr mail would be a great help too.
pjbharrison Posted 5 years ago. Edited by pjbharrison (member) 5 years ago
Hi Luis
Does the inside of the hole in the rudder look like it has threads?
If so, there may have been a bolt through a bearing in the plate with a slim lock nut on the bolt at the rudder.
Got any more photos of your boat?
busy home [deleted] 5 years ago
Whats the Hustler called. ?
b.mercer 5 years ago
Ron, there are 2 on eBay. Aquabairn was in Mersea and I know her well , the other is Hebe and is Fambridge up the Crouch from Burnham and doesn't sound too impressive. Downside is I am living on savings and some part time work until my pensions kick in next March and I would need a deep water mooring. At least twice as costly and much further to get to as we only have swinging moorings here. I wouldn't go to Burnham as they are bringing all the spoil from the Crossrail project in London up the river to dump.
I may just have to accept that I must wait till next year for an upgrade !
rothwell_neil Posted 5 years ago. Edited by rothwell_neil (member) 5 years ago
If you do look at a hustler go for the Mk2 as a much more user freindly interior, gallery on starboard and an L shaped berth on port, also starboard quarter berth with pull over chart table. Will sleep 4 at forepeak is 2*6ft but 3 grown men can easily fit for more than a weekend with just 1 up front. Mk1 had 5 berths but cramped.
Hi Ian. I am the fifth owner of the boat. According to my data the first owners were a couple of Corwall, until 1992. This, perhaps, contradicts the American origin of the ship.
Look for those numbers you say.
pjbharrison Posted 5 years ago. Edited by pjbharrison (member) 5 years ago
Do you have the name of the first owner?
Have you some photos of the boat, Luis?
The photographs are made in water and not appreciated everything very well. I introduced a piece cone and measured the diameter of the pin: 18 mm. Then use the stainless steel rod pump "Lavac" to make an emergency bulon.
The origin of the breakdown was weld failure. A piece of solder was still subject to the paint.
Hello Harrison.
The boat is still in the water. I want to get it out this week and see well the hole. Now I notice it smooth. I'll be uploading photos.
I am grateful for the interest and support
The first owners were Robert and Keith Clark Gwendoline. I'm looking for my photos, I'll rise. regards
Ian, I've been looking at the pictures and I have some idea of ​​the work.
I uploaded a picture of my boat rudder, made a few years ago. Then the problem was different. In the photo you can see a few screws.
Thanks for the help
b.mercer 5 years ago
rothwell_neil:

I think the model you describe is the 25.5c . Landamores called it a cruising model with a slightly different sail plan as well as the alternative interior. The 2 boats are one of each, the worst kept being the C model . I do agree with you that it is the better designed interior. I am hoping to see the previous owner of the other in Mersea to discover what he sold her for only a year ago . A lot less than the current asking price !
spearhead_027 5 years ago
Luis - I've looked down my copy of Butlers' 1980 build list but, sadly, don't see any of the names you give. I presume the boat was called triOlas and you have since changed her name to Amaya-C. Her windows are most unusual and support the idea that she was professionally completed but not by Butlers. I'm sure we'll all be most interested to see some more pictures, especially of the interior. Incidentally, you should take that bulge off the foot of the skeg when you're replacing the repaired shoe - it will keep catching ropes and polythene bags in the water otherwise!

Norman (if you're reading this) - could you possibly ask Chris if he sent a "kit" off to Prior's? perhaps at the request of the first owner? It seems most unusual, so he would probably remember it.
Ian.
admin
NormanKlipspringer 5 years ago
ok. I'll see what I can uncover.
Hello.
My Achilles was built in 1977.
The last English owner until 17/01/1992 was RB Clark, and the ship was called ILIAC, SSR 26244.
Later ALPHA was called until 1994.
In 1994 changes ownership and is called SOHAIL.
In December 2002, changed its name to TRIOLAS.
In September 2006 becomes my property and is called AMAYA-C.
The engine is the original, YSB8 s / n 748.
The central window was changed being Triolas.
Luis
I found a wood panel with the serial number: 024.
I have uploaded some photos of the process of refurbishing my boat.
spearhead_027 5 years ago
Luis - your photo's are most interesting and give me some ideas for my own boat. The back of the panel clearly shows "9M024" as you say but, when I check with the builder's list, that boat is down as "Hazel Jay", which went to a Mr B.A Jones in Macclesfield, Cheshire. It is possible that the carpenters got the numbers slightly mixed up (my own boat has a panel numbered 026 and changed to 027!), so if we look further in the list, 023 we know is now in Liverpool and 025 was originally called "Ladakh" and went to a Dr W.L.H Scarratt in Devon. That at least is a lot nearer Cornwall, and shows a possible medical connection too with the name Iliac.

I've heard nothing subsequently of either 024 or 025, so either could have gone abroad and ended up in your ownership. I guess we just have to be patient and keep our eyes and ears open for any further information. Do you have any (old) sails with the number on?

Ian
Tranquillity1 5 years ago
If you have a look at www.flickr.com/photos/31082164@N06/2921738161/ you can see where the foot inserts into the main skeg and the 3 screws either side that hold the foot in place. I replaced the bearing in the foot about 4 years ago and it has already worn to an oval again.
spearhead_027 5 years ago
As apparently an earlier hull than mine, I'd expect Luis' boat to have the same little shoe arrangement - time will tell.......
Ian
b.mercer 5 years ago
I have heard back from Robin Prior at Burnham now . He says he can find no record of them ever having done any work on an Achilles of any kind ,either building or fitting out. No mention of the name "ILIAC" either. Without seeing some sort of paper record I suspect we cannot explore this much further.
Bob
spearhead_027 5 years ago
Thanks very much for your trouble, Bob. Seems somebody got very confused somewhere.
Ian
admin
NormanKlipspringer 5 years ago
I'm still trying to get in touch with Chris without success so far. Hope he is ok?
admin
NormanKlipspringer 5 years ago
Managed to speak to Chris. He fell and was taken to a care home. I wrote to him and his son took my letter to him. He will be getting back to me and I hope to go and see him. I will discuss our issues with him then. I will also pass on best wishes on behalf of everyone.
Red Marlin 5 years ago
I can understand Chris not wanting to lose the link with his past adventures. The main issue that upsets me a bit is the condition of his boat. Even a good wash down would help and maybe would please Chris. Would there be access to electric and water where it is and could a jet wash be used. I would be more than willing to give some of my time.
Tony
Right. I still work my Achilles repair. I found a problem in the stern and the keel. I have taken to eliminate speed meter holes and toilet taps
Now I would like to know how is the lower section of the rudder support. In the photos uploaded you can see a big hole for a piston of an inch.
Can you give me the measurements of the original piece?.
I'm thinking about building a new stand with a brass piston screwed, or welded iron pin.
I also think I will need two washers of stainless steel or nylon.
Would I could give your opinion?
thanks
During the work I inspecionado detail the hull.
I have not found the slightest sign of osmosis.
This is a well built boat.
Thanks Chris. Good work
spearhead_027 5 years ago
Hi, Luis. I see from your photo's that you have the same skeg arrangement as Spearhead. I have had to change the pintle due to corrosion so am not sure what the exact size of the original one was, but the replacement is a 12M bolt (with the threaded end cut off) stuck up inside a plastic (probably nylon) tube, which in turn is pushed up the hole in the bottom of the rudder blade. The head of the bolt was welded flush into the tongue of the shoe so as to leave a smoothish surface around the base of the pintle, on which the big washer that I've already recommended rests. With the big hole in the tongue that you have, the welding would have to fill the whole of the space surrounding the bolt head or it might be easier to cut the metal circle off and make a new solid tongue - I would take your welder's advice on that. Finish off with re-galvanising the whole shoe, or zinc paint if that's not possible.

Regarding the cracks at the top of the keel fore and aft, it seems to be general with all Achilles. On mine the hull and keel adjacent to the cracks have been built up a little with filler, leaving half an inch over the actual crack. This little chasm, after painting, was then filled flush with Sikaflex 292 (the flexible one), which has lasted well over the last 3 years.

Ian.
Ian, thank you very much for the info. Now I have clearer ideas.
Luis
admin
NormanKlipspringer 5 years ago
Luis,
I spoke to Chris today and I am afraid to say that he has no recollections of dealing with Priors. He did say that this would have been most unusual since his normal customer for kit boats were individuals not companies. He also had no recollection of the owners you mention in Cornwall. So no further forward on identification. Good luck with the repairs.
Norman
admin
NormanKlipspringer 5 years ago
Tony,
I did not raise the issue of 'Swansea Bay' with Chris. It just was not the time given the circumstances. He hopes to be out of the residential home in 2 to 3 weeks at the outside so I thought it best left till then. He seems well enough but is increasingly lacking in stability. He is using a zimmer frame to help. He is jovial and treating his stay as a 'bit of a holiday'. He was his normal chatty self talking about sailing and setting the world to rights.
Norman
b.mercer 5 years ago
Wouldn't he be pleased to see his boat looking clean and serene. There is nothing more depressing than the sight of one's own boat looking so abandoned . There is much in Tony's suggestion and I wish I was nearer to join in the work.
Bob
Groups Beta