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Gas locker drain

BERT A24 7:25pm, 2 April 2013
Has anyone used the engine well as an outlet for the gas locker drain, or where would you recommend as it needs to be above water level at all times but below the bottom of the gas locker.
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NormanKlipspringer Posted 6 years ago. Edited by NormanKlipspringer (admin) 6 years ago
No point using the engine well since the gas will build up and into the cockpit. It has to be outboard - best place is probably centre of stern above water line. I found it difficult to work out a safe configuration in an A24 and that is why I ended up with a spirit(meths) stove.
BERT A24 6 years ago
It may just be doable if I use a camping gas 907 cylinder which is approx 25cm high in one of the side lockers and put in a support for the pipe in the lazarette.
Skykomish1 6 years ago
What we have on Skykomish... and I am not for one minute suggesting that this is good practice, is a gas locker built into one of the side lockers with an outlet pipe through the port side of the hull. In order to prevent water ingress when sailing hard on her rail a "sea cock" has been added so that the outlet can be closed for brief times, however you do need to ensure that it is re opened at the earliest possible opportunity and left open at all other times.
I would suggest that for a boat as small as the Achilles a permanent gas arrangement is not really worth all of the hassle.
When we had ours we coped very well with one of those compact selfcontained camping stoves with the aerosol gas cartridges, you do have to be careful in cold weather as the pure butane ones tend to become liquid and squirt contents out with possible fire risk, to get around this use the propane/ butane mix cartridges as these tolerate lower temperatures but are more expensive.
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NormanKlipspringer Posted 6 years ago. Edited by NormanKlipspringer (admin) 6 years ago
There is still enough gas in a cannister to cause problems. When I have used one of these portable stoves I have whenever possible used it outside in the cockpit, and when finished with I always removed the cyclinder from the stove and stored it in a sealable plastic container (like flares).
I doubt that putting a seacock on a gas escape would pass any survey and this might give problems if you had an incident and the seacock was found to be shut. Fact of life: A seacock will at times be shut when it should be open. Ever left the seacock shut when starting your engine or the seacock drain on the sink shut when washing the dishes - it happens?
Routing pipes through the lazzerette has to be done with care. If you use your lazzerette like me - all and sundry goes in there - anchors ,fenders, spare engine, buckets etc. If the pipe is not secured properly and protected in may well get damaged.
Skykomish1 6 years ago
Actually Norman The seacock did pass the survey without comment though I do agree care has to be exercised, hence my disclaimer at the start, this arrangement was installed a long way back by previous owners and appears not to have been mentioned in at least two surveys.
I think that it has also to be remembered that any gas fitting has to be installed / inspected by a qualified engineer that is why I really feel that installing a permanent system on an Achilles is not worth the hassle when there are the portable options that are cheaper, more practical (a lot can be stowed away in a locker freeing up valuable worktop space) and for the most part safer.
BERT A24 6 years ago
Just found this, notice the recommendations for portable appliances.
Are all self-contained portable LPG appliances stored so that
any LPG leakage will be directed safely overboard?
Check for the presence of self-contained portable appliances having
LPG cylinders or containers attached.
If present, apply the checks at 7.1.1.
All self-contained portable appliances having LPG cylinders
or containers attached must be stored in accordance with the
requirements of 7.1.1.
Note – this check applies to camping-style appliances but not items
such as gas hob lighte

All LPG cylinders or containers, whether full, part full or empty must be
stored either in a cylinder locker complying with the requirements of the
Checklist Items in sections 7.2–7.5, or in an open location.
Cylinders stored in an open location:
■ must be outside of a non self-draining cockpit or well deck; and,
■ must be in a position where any leaked LPG would flow overboard
unimpeded; and,
■ must be where there is no opening into the interior of the vessel, or
any source of ignition, within 1m (39 in) distance.
Are all self-contained portable LPG appliances stored so that
any LPG leakage will be directed safely overboard?
Check for the presence of self-contained portable appliances having
LPG cylinders or containers attached.
If present, apply the checks at 7.1.1.
All self-contained portable appliances having LPG cylinders
or containers attached must be stored in accordance with the
requirements of 7.1.1.
Note – this check applies to camping-style appliances but not items
such as gas hob lighter

www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/180428/bss%20guide%202005%...
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NormanKlipspringer 6 years ago
Which is why I use a spirit stove! I do not want gas on board - too risky. I have seen the results of a gas explosion on a boat - not pretty. The spirit stoves are completely self contained so significantly reducing installation problems and less space required. Spirit stoves such as the Origo (single or double burner) can be gimballed so use on the move is ok. Main disadvantage is less heat output so it takes longer to boil the kettle. On the plus side it is harder to bake on fried egg to the frying pan so the washing up is easier.
rothwell_neil 6 years ago
Bert

Being a bit sad like that I boiled a kettle on a camping gas cooker, an Origo and a Plastimo hob. The plastimo was fastest, the camping gas was about the same and the Origo was slightly slower by about 10-15%. In other words if a full kettle takes 6 minutes on a camping stove it will be 6:40 on the Origo. One cup will take 2:15 rather than 2 minutes. On the plus side these things turn right down to a low simmer better than any gas will ever do, ideal for cooking. I loved it and had the two burner and cooked many a fine meal on it. I certainly never had complaints and if you can't wait the extra seconds for the brew then you haven't relaxed enough to be sailing anyway. Use the rubber seals when not there and only top up what you need for the day/weekend/trip. If you do go this way then buy surgical spirit from an industrial supplier as doesn't have the purple dye and doesn't smell as much when burnt. It is a mix of ethanol and Isopropyl alcohol (should burn hotter than Meths). You can also get 2.5 litres for £8. I also used Methanol as this works as well (Meths is actually Ethanol with some Methanol) but it is marked as toxic, although all model plane flyers get covered with this with no problem as it is the fuel the glow motor use.
BERT A24 6 years ago
The problem is there already is a nearly new Plastimo hob and grill (I like my grilled bacon and toast in the mornings) already fitted. I don't really fancy getting rid of it, so if I can get a proper drain installed through the centre of the stern and install a bubble leak detector and a gas detector in the bilge. I will have to do some measuring and check the levels before I finally decide what to do. As for the pipework, it will be copper with the proper flexible armoured hose going to the stove. Safety is the most important thing and I will also be fitting a CO detector. Regarding the Origo, I have never used one, so I can't really comment on it.
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NormanKlipspringer 6 years ago
Good luck!
Thetis2013 6 years ago
A friend of mine, with considerable experience once suggested if you have a gas run, to pump the bilges as a matter of course, even if there is no water in there... Apparently the bilge pump will pump out air and gas as well as water. My recently inherited system is a camping gaz bottle in the stern locker and a proper rubber gas pipe leading to the stove. There is no drainage in the stern locker, but the bottle is completely disconnected when not in use, i.e. regulator removed & cap replaced on bottle. It does bring me onto the question someone out there might know the answer to... Does anyone know how long before you should change the rubber pipe, even if there's nothing seemingly wrong with it? Mine is dated Sept 2009, and I'm not sure whether I need to change it yet or not.
pjbharrison 6 years ago
I had a recent survey and surveyor said tube should be replaced within 5 years of date stamped on hose.
busy home [deleted] 6 years ago
I replaced Carries hose .. Fitted new in 1975... Cost nearly £5 inc s/s clips.! She has a new tetford gas hob / grill still using gas from launch last year!
Gosker has a Origo.. brill .
Chille a camping stove £10. Not so good.
merlin nothing at moment . but has gas vent pipe out of stern
Snowgoose has a pukka vented steel bucket in lazerett ..for butane
Niel get a life..take the dog out.
BERT A24 6 years ago
Hi folks, found this on the ybw forum:
We fitted two of these www.amazon.co.uk/Kidde-0122UK...4902762&sr=8-5 when we installed the eberspacher a few weeks ago. Combined fire and CO, pls a CO only with a digital readout. They don't make a sound with the Eber on 24/7 but light the Origo rings and all three alarms go off within minutes. Scary, so now replaced in marinas with two electric rings. We only use the Origo at anchor so the hatches will all be open in future when we cook with it.

I have found my gas locker, a plastic tank 12"H X 16"L X 10"W it will hold 2 camping gas 907 cylinders. Did some measurements yesterday and with the top of the tank just below the top of the side locker there is enough of a fall to put the drain through the transom about 2" above the waterline.
rothwell_neil 6 years ago
Ron

Thought that you would appreciate that making a brew was important!
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NormanKlipspringer 6 years ago
Are you measuring the waterline on the water with you and crew in the cockpit. On my old boat my engine exahust normally above the water line ended up well below when loaded.
busy home [deleted] 6 years ago
But you two add up to 40 stone
busy home [deleted] 6 years ago
On the recent pic of Merlins transom .. you can see the bilge pump outlet and the gas outlet.
BERT A24 6 years ago
Weight of me and crew is about half of Chille's figure above so not a problem. Looking at the photo of Merlins transom, I recon I can get my drain slightly higher and still have a good enough fall. I am thinking of using a plastic skin fitting with the ninety degree bend and clipping the pipe to the interior of the hull. Any thoughts?
BERT A24 6 years ago
WARNING. MARINE GAS REGULATORS.

Fully certified to EN 12864 annex M (marine environment)
Fitted with 75 mbar over-pressure relief valve
Vent orifice with 1/8 BSP thread with downward facing nozzle
Vent orifice with anti-moisture and contaminant screen
Re-enforced diaphragm
Marine grade materials
IT IS OUR INTERPRETATION OF THE STANDARDS THAT ANY SALTWATER VESSEL WITH A GAS SYSTEM THAT IS NOT FITTED WITH AN EN 12864 ANNEX M APPROVED GAS REGULATOR IS NOT COMPLIANT WITH BS EN ISO 10239 AND THEREFORE THE VESSELS INSURANCE COULD BE INVALID!
BERT A24 6 years ago
Tried the gas locker tank in today (it was a tight squeeze to get it through the gap into the port side locker). With the top of the tank about 1"below the locker lid it gives enough fall to put the outlet about 5" above the waterline (measuring from the boot top line) on the transom. So it's now down to the woodwork, putting in a shelf to support it.
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