farmer boy 9:28pm, 24 January 2012

Anyone know anything about these? They are very cheap and seem to have a reasonable spec...

Model: HDF4HS
Max. Output: 2.9KW
Full Throttle Operating Range: 4500-5500 RPM
Stroke: 4
Cylinder: 1
Displacement (cm3): 112
Bore x Stroke (mm): 59 X 41
Length x Width x Height (mm): 717 x 361 x Short:1029 - Long:1156
Weight (kgs) Short: 22 - Long: 24
Gear Ratio: 27:13 (2.08)
Gear Shift Position: F-N-R
Ignition System: TCI
Cooling System: Water-cooled
Starting System: Manual
Control System: Tiller control
Capacity of Internal fuel tank: 1.1L
Extras Included: Emergency Start Handle, Rope Recoil Starter, Spark plugs, Owner’s Tool Kit, Owner’s Manual.

All engines come with a pre delivery inspection completed by an independent engine specialist to ensure the engines are ready to go straight out of the box (once oil and petrol is added of course!).
pjbharrison 7 years ago

Seem to remember PBO did a small engine test early last year and a Parsun (Another Chinese) engine did well. I'll try and find the article.

Hidea seem to give a 3yr warranty
busy home [deleted] 7 years ago
Keep well clear... warrentees mean the engines in the workshop not on your boat,,, Jet dissappeared from england after one year trading
what good is their warratee now..
buy a merc 3.3 brill.
Ians 2.2 honda is totally unreliable . (dare not carry in boot on its side as oil runs into the air intake.,, I know all about being on the right side.)! Light but flimsy.
farmer boy 7 years ago
Thanks for that - will steer clear...
farmer boy 7 years ago
Chille - does the Merc have reverse gear?
busy home [deleted] 7 years ago
No you just spin the whole thing .. It has foreward and neutral.
Odd you should ask .. the gear shift does get tight over the years wd40 works ,,
2 stroke,
ive had mine about 10yrs, sweet easy to use and start, (except when Malcome and Linda were on board) same old plug ,
A yamaha Malta is a good oldie.. 3 hp.. bit heavy but smooth and v quiet,
busy home [deleted] 7 years ago
That thing weighs the same as my Tohatsu 8!
farmer boy 7 years ago
I think it is a Chinese engine so maybe not a good buy!
rothwell_neil 7 years ago

Must admit for a tender I don't worry about reverse, my evinrude swings round so will go in reverse (can't remember using it, also no clutch or gears but on tickover hardly any drive and if you want neutral kill it as it always starts first pull.
pjbharrison 7 years ago
What about a Seagull!
Cheap, reliable and smelly
Can just bung it in the bilge a forget about till next year when it'll start on 2nd pull
farmer boy 7 years ago
I am hoping to use the outboard as a spare engine for the yacht so I was thinking reverse would be a good idea... its a bit of a reach over the transom to swivel it around...
rothwell_neil 7 years ago
Ever the optimist, I find third pull is more like it. If you read Trekka around the world, John Guzzwell kept a seagull in the rear locker and it was a rust bucket, pulled it out when he got close to land, tickled the carb and it ran. Locals used to laugh at it but he swore most reliable outbaord ever. I can confirm as my dad was forever dropping them off the back of our 20ft boat and would retrieve them from the mud, drain carb and off they went again. We had a good tide run so we had 2 century's on the back, the noise and smoke will forever linger on!
busy home [deleted] 7 years ago
My 3.3 merc pushed Goskar easilly ..
nice thing was i could lift it single handed up on to the pushpit from the dinghy. (without burning my hand on the exhaust)
John, as soon as you add reverse gear the weight goes up.
You must learn to go slow !!
rothwell_neil 7 years ago
Agree, you are said you were planning on going round the world, no mention of reversing round the world, never go back they say so only forward gear needed.
farmer boy 7 years ago
I can just imagine the cussing and cursing as I try to rotate the complete bloody engine whilst hanging over the back as my pride and joy crashes into Barbados! - by the way - that sextant thing is the invention of the devil! I have read a book on what to do with it and I am no wiser.... I think I shall use my old Scouting wisdom and just point at the setting sun...
farmer boy 7 years ago
hmmm.... just read that and I mean rising sun! God help me.
busy home [deleted] 7 years ago
Hang it in the cabin and pretend,,
Scott and Portia1386 7 years ago
What about a seagull my 1967 forty plus pushes Portia along nicely easy to fix robust and runs on dirty petrol. if I was aiming for barbados and on my auxilary engine I don't think reverse would bother me
Vidwatts 7 years ago
My 6hp Mercury really struggled to make headway against the full flood tide on the the Thames last weekend but it did it - I have a 3.5 Mariner 2str on the dinghy which I'd love to have on Aelous to save weight and use the infill but it wouldn't be any use when it was really needed. I'm very pleased Malcolm picked the 6hp Merc.
rothwell_neil 7 years ago
Now I have a 40+ somewhere, just that somewhere is Invergordan and it is an heirloom.
pjbharrison Posted 7 years ago. Edited by pjbharrison (member) 7 years ago
I bought 4 Seagulls last autumn. 1 40+, 1 Century and 2 Silver Centuries with F/N, for €160 Euros. The Century ran with a little tinkering. The 40+ needs points. The 2 Silvers were seized as they,d been dropped off a pier a few years ago, retrieved when tide allowed and just put into a shed without washing etc. Got bits off Ebay and from John @ . Just polishing and painting one of them now. Total cost for 4 engines about 210 Euros. Have homes for all of them already-very popular little engines.

They can be converted from 10:1 mix to 25:1 for about £6 each.
pjbharrison Posted 7 years ago. Edited by pjbharrison (member) 7 years ago
Since you're going around the world you won't be able to flush the engine with fresh water very often after use. Wouldn't it be better to go for an air cooled unit. Honda make a very light 2.3hp one. No impeller to change, 4 stroke so no oil mixing.
farmer boy 7 years ago
Neil has found me a Mariner 4HP which needs a bit of fettling... it may be a cheap solution....
busy home [deleted] 7 years ago
PJB... That is the one Ian has.. Its totally unreliable.
Tilt it from upright it dont go.
pjbharrison 7 years ago
Seagulls 4ever!
rothwell_neil 7 years ago
Classic, tickle the carb, petrol slick in the water, start, smoke everywhere, check exhaust and enjoy the oil slick in the sea. Honestly though when my Evinrude threw the recoil starter spring is was useless until dismantled in the garage and rebuilt. My seagull is ancient, of unknown origin, lived in a shed for 10 years and runs as sweet as a nut. Recently visited it in Invergordon (long story) and after 3 years in a damp shed started on third pull. Also don't ever worry about impellers as they seem to pump sludge quite happily. I love it and would never sell it, just need to work out how to get it back here on Flybe!

Are there any issues other than the 16:1 fuel to oil ratio, well a slight tingle up the tiller when wet due to a spark leak somewhere!
Scott and Portia1386 7 years ago
seagulls and Achilles go together along with old avon tenders I've had the tingle as well
pjbharrison 7 years ago
Neil, I bought a 40- in the UK and had it shipped to Ireland by for £18
rothwell_neil 7 years ago
Will have to ship it to myself, trouble is that it is in the shed of my ex business partner and he has f'd off to Australia, can do it as will take it to our office in Dingwall and get them to ship it to me. I keep having to do one way hire to Scotland as Inverness gets fogged in, but so far not the reverse otherwise would put it in the boot of a hire car.
Skykomish E29 7 years ago
Our 2 h.p. Honda has been brilliant never had a problem with it and love the fact that it is air cooled so no flushing.

I have to say that I simply replaced the 6 HP engine on AEOLUS with the same one that it came with I have to admit I was a bit worried about doing that as the previous one wasn't very old when it started overheating and lost compression. I agree though that it does struggle against a tide and wouldn't want to use anything less as the main source of motor propulsion, 8 HP would be better but you then get the penalty of weight.
I am so glad we have a good old 13 hp Beta on Skykomish though have to admit that too plods against a heavy tide in the Swale
rothwell_neil 7 years ago
Not too convinced that you need an 8Hp, I had a twin 8Hp 2 stroke in Emily and it went well but still hit hull speed, was quick to reach hull speed mind you. The 5Hp honda, was lighter, easier to fit in and pushed the hull at 5.5Knots which must be about the best you get? It is also a lot skinnier and bulky underwater than the 8 and had a smaller prop so had less drag. With the fairing this meant it satyed in the well all the time. This coped with Spring Tides in the Solway where you get a 3knot run and never seemed concerned even when rough and going up and down. Would it be any faster with an 8? OK more push and should be better in waves but at a serious penalty on weight and hull speed is hull speed unless using waves? If you are pushing a tide close to hull speed you will make slow progress no matter what is pushing you unless you stop travelling by displacement and plane like a Macegger floating caravan.
Mick G N 7 years ago
Hi All, Im not sure this is where I should be posting but it is more or less on topic!

As you may recall we have an A24 (Picaroona) and as the season approaches we are toying with the idea of installing a Tohatsu 9.8 HP 4 Stroke complete with electric start and morse controls (I think morrse is the correct term) and weighing in at nearly 50 kg.

The objective is to strectch our marine legs and cover more distance, secure in the knowledge that we can motor / motor sail if we have to.

We currently have a 6 HP Mercury 4 stroke, that does its job reasonably well, but is ear piercing if running for a prolonged period

On the basis that there is a max hull speed Picaroona will not go any faster, but it will motor in hopefully a quieter fashion!

My questions though are as follow

Will the extra HP make it easier to motor against the tide?

Is 50 kg in the outboard well too heavy and upset the balance of Picaroona?

Are we barking up the wrong tree to consider such a move?

I look forward to hearing how daft you may feel we are:)

rothwell_neil 7 years ago
My 10 penny worth on this. An Achilles 24 is the perfect traditional displacement sailing boat and does not have any propensity to plane other than using waves when it happens quite nicely. So under power in general conditions the hull speed is 5.92 knots. I never used to get to this with a 5Hp honda but was happy at 5 with the occasional 5.5 knots. I used to get this often under sail in a good blow. If asked the best cruising speed for noise and economy was probably 4.5 knots. The noise from the honda was OK at this and I did some long motoring sessions when flat calm as well as motor sailing to get round headlands with a foul tide. Tended to use the autohelm and get away from the noisy end of the boat often sitting on top of the cabin.

Based on the numbers I used to get I would like to know what speed you get with a 6hp and what anyone gets from a bigger motor. I used to have an 8 and don't remember getting any more than high 5s from this and as it was 2 stroke the fumes were a pain. What it was good at was acceleration up to speed. It was also a lump and couldn't be pulled out of the well by one without using a block off the boom. It was also big cross section and thus caused a lot of drag. I replaced it with a 5hp as I had one and it had always worked well for me.

Personally I think that 50kg is too heavy and as to cruising distance you would be burning twice as much fuel for half a knot of top speed. You would gain from more punch in waves but I guess for me the best example of hull speed is the old tug boat ,10 times as much power as needed to reach hull speed and when flat out maybe 5% over hull speed and emptying the fuel tanks.

So in answer I was happy with the 5 but could see a 6 being nice.
busy home [deleted] Posted 7 years ago. Edited by busy home (member) 7 years ago
Yeah its daft!
Will 9 .8 go in the hole?
Yes far to much weight aft.
The outboard plug will not support all that weight and power
Will it be quieter?
No it wont be faster
You will be farther away from the engine controls!!!!!????
You will spoil the Achilles as a sailing yacht leaving the engine in.
Goskar has a 8 hp 2st, Tohatsu ..27k .. Exelent.V quiet , easy start 6knots
Chille a 4hp Merc . 4st. 27k.. 5,5 kts not bad, not noisey.?
Long shaft deep in the well
(Is your gear box worn)
I have lined both hoods with soud deadning)
Option 2 buy a Mag eggor...
Mick G N 7 years ago
Thanks a mil for getting back to me and in fairness I / we expected our sanity to be brought into question:)

I suppose we wanted to achieve the advantages of on inboard via an outboard in the well! I suspect we will stick with our existing engine and modify our cruising ambitions.

Thanks again for your input
Amrum 9171Y 7 years ago
Snifter has a Tohatsu 2 st 3.5hp for racing as it's light (13kg) and easy to get out of the well to put the plug in. for cruising I have a Honda 4st 5hp, which weighs about 25kg. that stays in the well. Actually both are on board at the moment with the Honda under the cockpit, as I never took it out before the race series started.
I always thought the Honda was very noisy, but lent it to a friend to get his Sun 2500 out to clear a rope round the prop, and off the back of a boat it is incredibly smooth and quiet. The only problem with the A24 well is that the cockpit acts like a sound chamber. Neil's autopilot and move forward is definitely the sensible solution for long slogs.
I've found both outboards push the boat comfortably at 5 to 5.5 knots. The Tohatsu is a brilliant bit of kit.
rothwell_neil Posted 7 years ago. Edited by rothwell_neil (member) 7 years ago
That has got me thinking, I had a hurley 22 with a 5hp honda in the rear locker. It was very quiet, had to keep the back of locker hooked up to let it breathe but is was quiet. I have also just lined the engine box of paladin with egg box sound proofing. It makes a heck of a difference.

So what about making a box to slip over the top of the motor with insulation? It would need to have big vents in the back to let the air in and may not work on tickover as the fumes come up into the well when stationary, but as exhaust gets taken away on the move you only need fresh air supply to the carb? Might make the big difference on a cruise?
Amrum 9171Y 7 years ago
Hmmm. That is an interesting idea! If you build one, please take pics. It could be an effective experiment.
pjbharrison Posted 7 years ago. Edited by pjbharrison (member) 7 years ago
Would also give added security for engine if it could be locked to floor.
Going to have a look around my garage to see if I have any suitable plywood offcuts...............
Mick G N 7 years ago
That's food for thought! we will pottering around with Picaroona over the weekend and will have a look the idea of putting a sound proof cowling around the engine.

Thanks once more for the input.
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