Slycat777 10:41am, 16 May 2011
For some stability calculations I need to calculate the draft of the canoe (DCB) body for my Achilles so I can work out the angle of vanishing stability.

Anyone ever done these calcs on an Achilles?

DCB is defined as the depth of the canoe body (below the waterline) at a distance 1/8 from the centerline.....

I've had a go at measuring it but seems I was way out! Tricky to know where the canoe body ends and the keel starts.
pjbharrison 7 years ago
Slycat777 7 years ago

Boat needs a stability rating to be used for any commercial sailing (day trips from Ballycastle).

Needs to meet a STOPS rating of at least 14 (no problem) and needs a minimum AVS.

I expect the Achilles will smash both these requirments easily but still need to go through the process.
Andrew Curry 7 years ago
How many are you planning on having onboard for these trips?
Slycat777 7 years ago

Any more than that and they'll be drawing straws for the liferaft :)
Andrew Curry 7 years ago
What do you have to do to get the commercial endorsement to allow you to take out paying customers?
Slycat777 7 years ago
About a million things

Get medical/first aid qualifications
Upgrade boat to meet MECAL standards
Pass RYA stability test
Get Day skipper practical/theory
Get Medical form from MECAL approved GP
Do sea survival course
Do VHF course
Get MECAL approved surveyor to complete MECAL survey

Plus other stuff I've probably forgotten!
Skykomish E29 7 years ago
Presumably you have checked that the Achilles is not already listed with the RYA?
I think that you will be amazed at the actual angle that you get as The Achilles is of the "Classic " school of design unlike modern light displacement boats which rely on their buoyancy and broadness of beam for stability.
Not sure if Norman can help, maybe Chris Butler still has this information???????
Andrew Curry 7 years ago
I would have thought that you would have needed to be a commercial yachtmaster? Would you have a links to any sites on the subject?
Slycat777 7 years ago
Andrew, its almost impossible to find the details online (or even by phoning the RYA or MECAL).

The only reasonable info online is at:

And its pretty slow going!

Sky, yes I've checked the RYA listings, nothing there. Must check again tho, in case its been updated.

I measured the DCB at 60cm, but it seems even 30+ ft boats have around 35cm so this seems a bit off!
NormanKlipspringer 7 years ago
I am not aware of anyone doing the necessary calculations although Achilles 24s have been used commercially in the past. Cardiff Bay Sea School (now defunct) operated a fleet. Maybe when they found out what coding means that was when they went under. I will try and get hold of Chris Butler and find out if he has any information.
Is any of the following useful to you?
Skykomish E29 7 years ago
I have to say that it seems an awful lot of work and expense, I would imagine that you are going to need a proper liferaft too and they don't come cheap especially when you take into consideration that it will HAVE to be professionally serviced on a regular basis.
Good luck anyway, as you say, I am certain that the Achilles will fly through any requirements in terms of her seaworthyness.
Not sure but don't the MCA do surveys on commercial yachts????
Slycat777 7 years ago
Thanks for the input!

Would be interesting to hear Mr Butler's input alright. As well as requiring this measurment for the coding, It'll be interesting to see how the Achilles measures up stabilty wise to other yachts, both the same size and bigger.
064Fleur 7 years ago
I've been running commercial trips out of Solva for 10 years in an A24 under MCA coding. Generally it's not to onerous, though a little expensive. Yes, you need a liferaft, flares, fire extinguishers, commercial qualifications, medicals and the rest, and yes, everything has to be serviced at the specified intervals.

The same goes for any commercial operator, which is why boat trips are so pricey these days.

I used to go through Pembrokeshire Council, whose surveyor never got round to worrying about stability certificates because it was a production boat., but they have stopped being MCA agents so I'm now going through the RYA, who have promised to do a stability certificate for £20

Pretty well every measurement you need apart from the DCB and the tack-to-luff foresail measurement can be found on this site.

I also wrote an instruction manual for the boat, which I'm quite happy to share with any one going down this route. The A24 is a brilliant boat for trips in St Bride's Bay and every one seems to enjoy themselves.

My advice would be to persist and don't let the paperwork put you off. Oh, and remove every last trace of gas fittings on board.
pjbharrison 7 years ago
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