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Slycat777 12:23pm, 1 September 2010
We've been having a great discussion about replacing the mast on my newly aquired Achilles 24. Just wanted to post to check if anyone knew of an Achilles mast for sale anywhere?

Bit a of a long shot, but want to check out all my options!

Thanks,

Chris
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pjbharrison 8 years ago
any luck with getting a mast?
How was the boat jumble at the weekend?
Slycat777 8 years ago
I think I'm going to go for this:

www.flickr.com/photos/52955484@N06/5029441857/in/pool-ach...

Its 33' foot long and in good condition. I'll get the seller to measure the mast diameter for me to see how it compares to my Achilles mast first. If its similar I'll buy it and try cutting it down and moving my fittings across. Only concern is the mast heel, it might actually fit the achilles already but if it doesnt might be tricky getting one that works.

Boat jumble was great, picked up some new fenders and and new jockey wheel for my trailer that I needed too.

Did stumble across another issue tho, my outboard (5hp) is too short for the Achilles! It might work but really its too short. So looking to trade my 5hp short shaft for a 4hp long shaft... there were a few on sale at the jumble and I took the sellers numbers with me.
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
Norman has a short shaft on Klipspringer,, It protrudes enough.
The problem is turbulance from the prop coming up into the well
and not driving the boat,, All you need is a Bung thingy to fit over the leg and into the well ,, Klipspringer had this for years ..Pic somewhere ..?
A long shaft is very deep in the water,
Slycat777 8 years ago
That's very interesting as I really like my current 5hp mercuary outboard. It's a bit old, but its really reliable!

I struggled to get it to fit the outboard well insert at all (even with the insert out of the boat!) but I didnt try too hard as I just assumed a long shaft was neccessary!

I could probably make some adjustments to the outboard well insert so the outboard fitted in, will have another look at it.
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
My tohatsu is a B to get in (flange to flange) I ve cut some fibre glass away but it needs a twist and cant ..
Slycat777 8 years ago
Got some dimensions,
The mast for sale has dimensons 5" x 4"

My current Achilles mast is 2" x 5"

Looks to be 2" wider than my own, would this make it too heavy?
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
YES
Slycat777 8 years ago
Curses! I thought so.

Back to the drawing board!
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
I m now going to Falmouth to see Goskar (ashore) I will pop into boat parts to see what they have,,
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
OK I ve found three masts that would suit.
One ,,,,,, 25ft gold ,, correct section , Looks orrible .. covered in green verdegre,, Goosneck to close to foot, as is sail slide. But couldbe done.
two ....... 27ft tidy mast ,, Looks very nice .. very slightly large but acceptable,, gooseneck ajustable any were,But could not see sail feed
I think it has a furling system still attached.
Three .... Too high in pile to measure but a possable..
These are in a large rack of sh masts and booms and poles and odds !!! The man was not around but assistant took my number
The big problem of course how to transport..
If we can resolve that I will have a closer look (It was raining)
Approx £100 £150....But not sure,
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
I also found one bottom lever winch .. slight wear but still clicks well
Achilles size ,, but £40!!!
Whos got a seized one?
Slycat777 8 years ago
Great info!

In short £100-£150 is definitly in my budget for a mast. I'd be happy to commit to buy straight away, the only problem as you say is transport...

Was also me that has the sized winches. I got one unsiezed tho, will work on the other one this weekend. Do those winches actually have gears, I cant find any in them!!
Slycat777 8 years ago
Actually, I've a friend who works at a ferry company. I'll chat to her and see if she has any logistics contacts. Just need to get the mast to Belfast/Larne/Dublin..
busy home [deleted] Posted 8 years ago. Edited by busy home (member) 8 years ago
I await his phone call
Ive not had those apart // but do not think ...they have gears
Norm has them
Slycat777 8 years ago
Hmmm this from the seller of the 33' mast..

" Those figures are at the base... If it is cut it will be narrower as it reduces all the way to the top..."
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
Ask him the size at 8ft up..
You will need a foot to fit exactly at that point. I mean perfectly....!!
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
Click on Normans logo go to photo s 19.. pic of winch.internals
Slycat777 8 years ago
Hmmm good point, If I cut the bottom of the mast I'll probably need a custom foot :(
Better to get a mast that doesnt need cut, better chance of being able to use the existing foot, or getting a foot that will fit I assume (as it will be a standard size).
Slycat777 8 years ago
Ah yes, I had hoped that was the only 'mechanism' in the winch. It surprised me it just rotated around the spindle without any bearings or gears, but I can see how it would work fine, just using the length of the handle for torque.
Slycat777 8 years ago
Found a very interesting web site..

www.shiply.com

Will make some enquiries about mast courier..
Slycat777 8 years ago
Getting a quote on a blank mast from a local supplier. Will need to compare that to the cost of a 2nd hand mast and courier.

Only 1 courier quote so far.. 300 quid!
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
GOSH... or words to that effect,,
Slycat777 8 years ago
To help me get more accurate quotes, whats a ball park estimate for the weight of a boat mast around this length?

Also, did the mast in your photos have a heel compatible with the AChilles?

Thanks!
pjbharrison 8 years ago
Just took my mast down yesterday and am going out now for the evening. I'll weigh it tomorrow morning for you.
pjbharrison 8 years ago
When taking it down and moving it, it felt about the same weight as an outboard, so about 35kg
Couriers usually use volumetric weight for calculations though. ie they say a box of a certain size weighs a minimum weight. They may say a packaged mast weighs a minimum of 100kg for their calculations!!
Slycat777 8 years ago
Great thanks.

What I'm hoping is that one of the boat transport companies have a job to Ireland sometime over the next 3-4 months and so could also transport the mast for a reasonable cost...
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
I can lift and walk carrying an Achilles mast,, I woud guess around 28 kg a bit more perhaps.
Same as a 5hp outboard. That including rigging and halliards.
This mast is a bit longer and looks a bit stronger but no rig..
The foot fitting is similar to Achilles .but there are two types!
What sail no is yours?
pjbharrison 8 years ago
Hi
Spoke with Irish ferries this morning. If you can get mast delivered to Holyhead or Rosslare you can go over as a foot passenger and bring the mast aboard yourself. They won't charge you a fee for the mast just your fare as a foot passenger. Book a mini cruise for £34. If you want to go for this option call Sheila Gleeson at 01-8552222 (Dublin number) and she'll email port authorities with the arrangements. It should be a lot cheaper to get the mast to a UK port by courier
Slycat777 8 years ago
Looks like it could be coming together!

My boat is sail number 52

Looks like this passenger option would be best, but I've also had a mail from a boat transporter who is delivering a boat from england to N.Ireland next week.

If Ron thinks the heel will fit (or can be changed to fit), I'll get a quote from them for bringing the mast across.
blueachilles 8 years ago
I hope we get some photos on here of you on the ferry with your mast on your shoulder; in the DutyFree shop, the bar, the passenger lounge......
Slycat777 8 years ago
Will I have to buy 20 seats in the cinema? :(
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
You may need the no. Cornwall Boat parts,, 01326373032
This is an alladins cave,, so full of bits you cant get in. but the owner knows what hes got.
pjbharrison 8 years ago
Don't forget to give Norman your boat details for the Sail number page.

www.achillesyachts.co.uk/index2.html
Slycat777 8 years ago
Local company has offered a new mast at the bargin price of £4000.

Think its time to buy the mast at Famouth! I'll call them today
rothwell_neil 8 years ago
£4,000 normally gets you a mast with an achilles attached to the bottom of it.
Slycat777 8 years ago
Still no luck getting hold of Cornwal Boat parts.

Maybe its one of those shops with all sorts of mysterious objects, and when you buy something and then return to the shop it's mysteriously vanished? Did you buy a rusty lamp? ;)
pjbharrison Posted 8 years ago. Edited by pjbharrison (member) 8 years ago
Spoke to some guys in Skerries who think someone may have an A24 mast in their garden from one that went onto the rocks in Skerries some years ago. There used to be 7 A24s in Skerries apparently

Investigations are ongoing.........
Slycat777 8 years ago
*holds breath*
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
Went to Boat parts today,,, no one home,,
The mast looks good .. There are others there but one better than rest.
the reefing drum is now missing! Foil still there.
Slycat777 8 years ago
Ok great. Glad the reefing drum is gone, should be cheaper now :)

Will wait in case PJ finds the lost achilles mast of legend first!
pjbharrison 8 years ago
Meeting in Skerries on Sunday morning. Should have news one way or the other then
pjbharrison 8 years ago
Sorry, Chris. No sign of mast in Skerries.
Slycat777 8 years ago
Nps. Sounds like the mast in Falmouth is the best bet, I'll keep trying to ring the owner :)
Slycat777 8 years ago
OK, got hold of the guy. Mast is still there and doesnt come with any furling apparantly..

My only concern now is how I can get a step to fit. I checked and he doesnt have a step for it. The guy that makes mast steps seems to have a shop in the yard... Keefe Engineering?

Had a quick chat with Keefe but hard to describe what I need at this stage!

Ideally I'd like to get a step 'off the shelf'.

Soon as I'm confident I can get a step that works I'll buy the mast.
Slycat777 8 years ago
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
Buy mast.Get an empty cornflakes packet, go to boat, make a pattern, cut out with sissors. go to nearest garage ask them to make this from angle iron ,, , paint with Galvafroid ,bolt to boat, stick mast on top .£20 tops two hours all in,,
Slycat777 8 years ago
The cornflakes packet plan is a winner. Buying the mast tomorrow!
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
Ybw Huh!
Slycat777 8 years ago
Yup, few leads there that were worth following up but making it myself looks like the winning plan :)

Bought the mast yesterday, arranging the transport for it now
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
It only requiers two pieces of angle in stainless or heavy alloy.
and possibly a spacer plate or washers to make an inverted T section ..
Steel would do if SS or alloy not around,
Hire a camper ,,come over for a day .. Strap mast to side , Nice weekend trip ..
pjbharrison 8 years ago
Any news on the mast?
Slycat777 8 years ago
Bought, and courier arranged!
They should be collecting it this week and I should have it not long after.

I debated collecting it myself, but the courier is one that specialises in boat and boat part delivery from England to Northen Ireland so the rates were very close to what it would cost to collect it myself (taking into acount hire, petrol etc etc).

Next thing to do will be to get the step made, then work out how to get my standing rigging sorted. With no exsiting stays that will fit to use a s a template I'll need to work out what length of stays I need myself!

The mast is 27' so about 3' longer than my old mast. Should I just use the longer mast or cut a bit off?
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
Debateable...But I would stand looking at it for a half a day,,!
I seem to remember it has two sets of cross trees,,,,
3 ft of mast doesent weigh tooo much,,,
As the gooseneck is moveable cutting off the bottom seems feasible,
Whats wrong with using your own rigging ? extend with chain or longer bottle screws,, ?? (not three ft though)
Its a decision to be mulled over ,,,!!
I hope the man is around when the lorry arrives ,, hes seldom there .!!
Slycat777 8 years ago
Aye, I as worried about that. I told the courier guys to be SURE to phone them (and actually get through) before collecting!
Would rather not cut the mast unless there was a strong argument to cut it. Not worried about loosing a big of performance, only any safety issues.
I'll see how far my rigging is out first. I guess it'll just depend on where the attachment points are on the new mast vs old.
Looking forward to getting the mast up. Hard to get motivated to do other work on the boat when there's no mast!
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
Well all should be OK now so no excuses. !
Motovation was a big issue with Chille as Ian was a hard taskmaster.
his standards are very high . I was not too well at that time either , (bypass)
Goskar was easier as I knew what I wanted and Im not soo fussy.
Once the paint was on and looked good (due to my other son compounding it well) I had an easy job inside.
The weather plays a major part .. even when in the shed (its not too water or wind proof , ) no heat either, (no mains electric only a 12kw diesel genny) But when you get to know the thrill of sailing an Achilles its encouragement and makes doing your own easier.
Try to stop the water leaks first ,, nothing worse than opening the hatch to see wet berths or damp areas. Water in the bilges makes every thing damp and cold, The achilles does suffer from leaks!
They also heel a bit! try to arrange storage so things dont fall onto the floor .. (even berth cushions ... Goskar has velcro under hers)
Goskar has little drawers that open fore and aft,just above the quarter berths I keep sail ties, car keys sun glasses money spare plugs and a spanner. knife .shackle key . etc in them One of my better ideas!
Hope thats given you something to think about anyway.
Slycat777 8 years ago
Great tips!
I've been making solid progress, gettting both winches apart and started repairing all the little imprefections on the deck with plastic padding filler ready to sand down.
Also removed the old toilet flush unit which I wont use, and replaced the manual bilge pump. Just recieved a vhs radio from ebay and a new switch panel, so all ready to re-wire the electrics.
going to steal the corded carpet idea for the inside sides, how did you attach those to the sides?
pjbharrison Posted 8 years ago. Edited by pjbharrison (member) 8 years ago
Spray on adhesive from carpet shop
What radio did you go for?
Slycat777 8 years ago
I cant show you, you'll laugh too much!

Let's just say it fits with the age of the boat!

Its an ebay 'special', just a placeholder for now as I'll not be going far next season, then will install a DSC unit.
Slycat777 8 years ago
Just planning ahead to getting the mast (hopefully) this month.

Ron mentioned I could extend my existing rigging with chain to cater for the taller mast, which was a great idea. I think I'll do this for this season and replace the rigging next season.

Quite paranoid when it comes to stays, can you recommend what type/size of chain I should use?

Thanks!
pjbharrison 8 years ago
How much extra length do you need?
Would longer bottlescrews do?
Slycat777 8 years ago
Hmm I'd need to bust out my math skills to work that out!
Mast is about 3ft longer....

*goes to get pen and paper*
pjbharrison 8 years ago
That's a lot taller. Where do the shorter shrouds fit on the mast though?
You may have to put it up temporarily with some cords attached to the stays to check the measurements. You'd probably need about 11 or 12m of s/s chain. I have a short piece of chain from my old boat :( that was used on the centerboard. It's probably the type of chain you'd need. I'll post a photo with dimensions for the gurus to consider.
It would be best to replace the standing rigging though. Marine suppliers in Howth have quoted me €2.20 per meter + fittings for 5mm.
pjbharrison Posted 8 years ago. Edited by pjbharrison (member) 8 years ago
Won't the extra height of the mast and the extra weight that high up cause more heeling. Can the mast be shortened? Could 5mm wire strops be used?
With "made up" rigging will the boat still pass examination for taking customers aboard?
Lots of questions, sorry
Could main 4 stays be replaced and baby stays be lengthened if all can't be replaced at the moment?
Slycat777 8 years ago
Yes, my back-of-a-fag-packet calculations say I'd need bottlescrews that were about 70cm longer for the longest stays!!

I'd expect there to be a little more heeling but I wouldnt have thought that 3 ft of mast has a huge weight. I think Ron mentioned that some Achilles did have longer masts too.

Shortening the mast is a definite possibility. I'll need to wait till I get the mast first to see how daunting the task looks. My main concerns would be getting a very straight cut, and then having to maybe reattach the gooseneck fitting at the correct level.

Wether I lengthen them or replace them this season will depend on how close I am to commercial sailing this season. If I think I'm going to get all that needs done for the coding this year, I'll replace the stays, if not I'll just use chain for this season.

Repacing the stays will be tricky, as it may be tricky to measure accuratly and ensure any stays I get made up fit exactly!
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
As its not tapered and has not got a fancy sail opening ,, ie remake your own,,, cutting it down is no problem.... wind a piece of tape around it and follow the circle,
Slycat777 8 years ago
Sounds like a plan.
A bit of hassle to cut it down and make gooseneck, but hassle saved getting rigging to fit as my stays may work as they are.
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
If I remember right, the goose neck is pop riveted on . so easy change
(after you have your sail up.)
When the time comes I can measure my mast from foot to attachment point to help position the shrouds. (lowers)
The sail opening is either ground out or bent out. no great problem
Slycat777 8 years ago
Ah, riveted on sounds good!
I do have my old mast here so I can use that as a template (and even transfer the spreaders over if required as they are also rivetted on).

I assume to give myself the best chance of an easy transfer I'll try to keep everything on the new mast at the same position as the old mast (including forestay attach point etc).
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
Is your rig 3/4 or masthead?
If 3/4 I would change to mast head,, (I have a jib) that would require a new forestay of course but worth the expense,,
Slycat777 8 years ago
Its 3/4.
Will look at changing to mast head.
In the process of dividing up tasks into 'must do' and 'nice to haves' for this season. Number one priority is to get it in the water this summer!
Slycat777 8 years ago
The courier finally has the mast. Should get it within the week!
pjbharrison 8 years ago
Good news!
pjbharrison 8 years ago
Has it arrived yet?
Slycat777 8 years ago
Boy.. its like pulling teeth.

Two weeks ago they said they had the mast.
A week later they said its at the harbour on their side but is delayed due to bad weather.
Then they said it would be here last week.
Then t hey said it would be arriving fri/sat at latest
STILL waiting.

Will phone them again at lunchtime.
Slycat777 8 years ago
FINALLY arrived!
It's at a friends house in Belfast. We'll keep the mast there while we get it adjusted for my boat.
Should get a look at it tomorrow to decide if I should chop the top or the bottom. Looks good so far.

Next stage is the step!
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
Good news!!
pjbharrison 8 years ago
Yay
Andrew Curry 8 years ago
Good news :-)
Slycat777 8 years ago
Mast looks good.
I reckon I'll take some off the top so its the same length as the mast I have. That way all my rigging will be the right length.
Will see if I can take across my sliding gooseneck track from the old mast and I'll probably need to try to take across the mounts for the spreaders also as the new mast doesnt really have any!
Only concern at this point is that the mast seems generally heavier than the old mast (a little bigger in diameter). I assume that wont be an issue?
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
Merlin has a bigger mast diameter, New.. and heavier .. No problem.
Amrum 9171Y 8 years ago
Hooray! Great news! Achilles masts tend to be quite heavy compared with modern equivalents, but the boats can take the weight easily, so a little more shouldn't be a problem.
Slycat777 8 years ago
Mast pics added for Ron.

It's quite strange in places with no real full size spreaders just the little minis spreaders and wires attached from the mast to the mast again lower down.

Current plan is.
Top 3 feet off the top
Remove all the mini spreaders
Move proper spreaders from my old mast (got these off already)
Move top spreader attach point down to match old mast position
Use existing gooseneck
Get Step fabricated
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
Go mast head rig .. She will sail better,,,
Slycat777 Posted 8 years ago. Edited by Slycat777 (member) 8 years ago
Considering that but most mast head rigs have a fitting at the top of the mast that takes the mainsail halyard, backstay, forestay, jib halyard etc like farmerboys pics but getting one to fit this mast may require a miracle!

EDIT: this the fitting I guess I'd need:

www.flickr.com/photos/58818786@N04/5464140985/in/pool-ach...
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
You can have a S/S one made easiliy .. Just a cap with four tangs ..
Attach fittings and have halliards outside .Whats on top now?
Slycat777 8 years ago
On top at the moment is a cap with tags to the rear for attaching the back stay and main sail halyard (and topping lift)
I'll look into getting a quote for a new cap. Not too many boat savvy fabricators in Belfast!
If I got the cap will I need to have the upper side stays through the mast like farmer boys or can I stick with a simpler stay attachment just below the cap?
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
The tangs can be welded to the cap. over the top and down .each side, also riveted to the mast.
Slycat777 8 years ago
So, if I get an attachment thats both a halyard crane and forestay attachment and rivit it to the mast at the top, it'll be strong enough to take the forestay/halyard load?
Slycat777 8 years ago
Atlantic spars and rigging seem happy to fabricate me a box, going to get a quote from them.
I may cut the mast down and send them the offcut to make sure it fits!
Slycat777 8 years ago
Oh, while I'm at it, where does the spinacher halyard normally run on a mast head rigged achilles?
To an extra pully beside the jib halyard pully at the mast head?
Andrew Curry 8 years ago
It run's above and forward of the jib halyard.
Slycat777 8 years ago
So part of the mast head box then? (as opposed to 3/4 of the way down the mast or anything)
Andrew Curry 8 years ago
Andrew Curry 8 years ago
It would be worth taking a walk round a few yacht clubs and have a look at the boats that are out of the water with there masts down. So you know exectly what you want to get made.
Slycat777 8 years ago
Got the old step off the mast. Was expecting a titanic struggle but it came off no problems at all. Phew!

Interesting thing about the new mast.... The new mast is 1m longer than the old mast, but the forestay/jib halyard attach point on the new mast is 1m lower than the old mast!

Going to move it up to match the old mast so the rigging is the same.
pjbharrison 8 years ago
Photos?
Slycat777 8 years ago
Of the old step? Yup, will take some when I get the new step to show how it compares. Going to see one 'off the shelf' tomorrow that should do the job.
Slycat777 8 years ago
Anyone know what material the support welded at right angles to the mast support in the cabin is made from?

I'm looking to drill two new holes to mount the new step and its proving impossible to drill? The piece is welded to the main support arch and it towards the front of the boat (just before the hatch).

We were able to drill a stainless backing plate for the other side of the step no problems but I've been unable to dent this piece!
busy home [deleted] 8 years ago
That is not a standard fitting. There is no backing plate in side normally .. just the wood bulk head , glassed in .
If you drilled S/S you should be able to drill anything! (very slow lots of pressure)
Slycat777 8 years ago
Its just a fancy backing plate that happens to be attached to the bulkhead. I'll just push harder :)

If there are no backing plates (and through bolts) how are steps usually held in place?
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