Purchase advice

jendave1 5:15pm, 17 April 2010
Hello all, my name's Dave and I'm a new member. We are looking at buying an A24, and have just inspected sail no 478 (Panik) which is on the Achilles site at £3250. To be honest we were a bit disappointed at the condition, very basic boat that looks to me more like a project than a purchase (if you know what I mean). An old 2 stroke outboard (8HP mercury) which seems OK, rigging and sails again seem OK but no idea how old. There is a trailer which again isn't very tidy but does have wheels (although the brakes don't work).
The only instrument was an old depth gauge, not sure if it works. The seller didn't seem to know much.
On the plus side it hasn't been messed about, and could be used this season; but we'd find out what needed replacing fairly quickly and could end up with a 'hole in the water'.
To my mind I would think closer to £2000, would this be an insult?
Any thought or advice would be gratefully received.
busy home [deleted] 9 years ago
Snow Goose is for sale .. Fin ... Cant discuss on here (rules)
Flicker mail me or greyhoundturning
NormanKlipspringer 9 years ago
Welcome to the group Dave. You might find some of the links on the main site page to discussions in this group helpful.
From what you say it does seem overpriced. A roadworthy trailer is worth quite a bit but from your description it requires much work. have a look at other boats before making a decision.
Skykomish E29 9 years ago
As Norman says that sounds way overpriced you should be looking at a pretty tidy Achilles for that price. No I would say from your description that it would be worth around £1800 to £2000, though to be honest I would get the best that I can afford. The latitude is not very wide between what you can pay for a good boat and a project, so unless you have a real urge to spend money that you will not get back go for the best one that you can find, there are a fair few around.
From the bills on my old boat it doesn't take long to clock up a few thousand pounds > I know that the previous owner paid nearly £1000 having the mast dropped, standing rigging replaced and mast re installed, I spent around £1000 on sails, a new outboard is £800 - £1000, then you have running rigging which almost certainly will need replacing on any boat that hasn't been looked after and so it goes on.
If you are near Cornwall it would be worth giving Ron a call (Chille Pepper), and i am not sure if Norman may be able to point you in the direction of a reasonably priced boat if you get my drift.
jendave1 9 years ago
Thanks for all the advice guys, especially Ron who has been most helpful. We're way up in Kintyre, so Cornwall would be a bit of a long haul! Anyway have actually bought Panik after some haggling (the name will change!). I am fairly sure things are sound but untidy, it's the right size for us with a good reputation for build and handling. I will get enjoyment from any work put into the boat, I am sad that way (engineer you see).
Have found this site really interesting and full of valuable information, so will try and do my bit to keep the information flowing. Will upload some photos once things get underway.
rothwell_neil 9 years ago
Emily was in need of love when we got her, the nice thing about Achilles is that they are basically well made and sound boats so respond to time and effort. Hate to think how many hours spent but as I get to the end of the tasks and jobs wonder why I enjoyed it so much and what else I can do to keep me entertained as very rewarding can see why Ron keeps collecting new boats to play with.
Skykomish E29 9 years ago
I am sure that you will have a lot of fun with your new boat, as you have probably found there is no shortage of advice. don't forget to publish some pictures of her especially before you start work, as it is always nice to see a log of the progress
Andrew Curry 9 years ago
Well done you will have get fun in the Achilles. Feel free to ask any questions. Were abouts in Kintyre are you based?
jendave1 9 years ago
We live not far out of Campbeltown which is where we'll moor. Jenny is from Antrim so a trip across will be on the cards at some point! Campbeltown sailing club (just joined) have a reciprocal run with Cushendall, don't know if we'll be able to do it this year though.
Currently trying to sort moorings, insurance etc; should really be doing some work though!
digger achilles 9 years ago
got an achilles 840 which I am currently reffiting have no tiller anybody know the measurements and shape also wondering about keel bolts and possable replacement
digger achilles 9 years ago
digger achilles would like to contact any members with achilles 840 s in south wales area for advise on refit
Super Snoopy 050 9 years ago
I've got a 9m in Newport, (an 840 is only a 9m with the stern lockers chopped off) and may be able to help. On the subject of keel bolts, Daddsie is your man - but looking at all of the reports of keel bolt replacements for all the Achilles models, it appears that unless the keel is hanging loose and waggling about, it's not really worth contemplating this daunting task.

I'll take a photo if the tiller over the weekend and dimension it for you.
rothwell_neil 9 years ago
As a corrosion engineer I will say that with carbon steel if the heads and visible areas of the bolts are not bad then the hidden bits are very unlikely to be damaged. As proven in most photos and examples carbon steel needs oxygen so the exposed bits will always be worse than the hidden threads unless the leak is from the keel side and no water in the bilge. In which case you won't know until you get wet when it all falls off (unlikely as encapsulated in a big cast keel which will be happy to corrode instead of the bolts, meaning that again the bolts should be better than the keel). Mr Butler seemed to err on the side of caution and I have no doubt about the keel and fixing of it. However as no one paid for this advise you can't sue.
jendave1 9 years ago
A cautionary tale... Finally we have got 'Panik' (to be renamend 'Shurig') into the water. I have up-loaded some photos if anyone's interested. We bought an inflatable tender as the mooring is a good 250 yards out; it came with a painter attached at the bow. We rowed out to start work on the rigging and the wind was getting up - I wasn't worried as I'm quite a strong rower and had used a good strong round-turn-2-hitches to attach the tender. Anyway a shout from Jenny and we watched it sailing off to the shore with the painter still firmly attached to the yacht - it never crossed my mind to check the other end of the line! Frantic mobile phone calls and I got a lift back to shore and recovered the dinghy & rowed back out. It actually never occured to us that we were sitting on a boat with a working engine and could have motored to the pier under our own steam, we were too focused on the rigging not being complete and our new rubber boat drifting onto the shore. Two painters from now on, and check BOTH ends of the rope!
Skykomish E29 9 years ago
Hahaha, yes I am sure that we could all confess to similar stories in fact perhaps a new thread should be started.
Would love to see your pictures upload them to the site
pjbharrison 9 years ago
Morning Dave
Welcome to the group
Another red & white A24!
Had a look at your photostream, she looks good. Everything is all there inc. lots of clutches. Headlining look good too.
Great scenery in pic of boat on water
jendave1 9 years ago
Thanks for the comments guys. As I said looks good from a distance but there is a lot of tidying and sorting to do, but that can wait until the end of the season. I looked at the Aeolus interior pictures, and agree that the heavy hanging cylinder under the cooker seems a waste of space. All of the renovation photos here are giving me great ideas, apologies in advance for breeches of copyright!
Skykomish E29 Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Skykomish E29 (member) 9 years ago
That's what we are here for. Sorry I just looked back over my photostream and didn't realise that i had so many, a good shot of the cooker space is on page 8. I hasten to add that the recent pictures are of my Elizabethan29 and not my previous Achilles
digger achilles1 9 years ago
snoopy 463 need to get in contact my boat is in barry need tiller info and some advise before refloat in june phoned your yacht club but got wrong tel number off someone useless with computors my number 07922119768
Daddsie 9 years ago
I do have a spare tiller for a 9m, although loathed to sell it, more than happy to loan it as a pattern for a new one. PM me
jendave1 8 years ago
Time to come clean - Jenny and I have no sailing experience and this is our first boat. We've been out a few times now and I like to think we're getting a bit better each time; no catastrophes as yet but we did manage to run aground at the weekend - only slowly on a nice sandy bottom with a rising tide, so had a cup of tea and floated off. Did you know with the plug and engine out it is possible for a fully grown man to fall through the hole with both feet?
We are really enjoying the boat though, it does give us confidence and we could probably do more heeling than we have been. There's still loads to sort out, so I plan to do as much as I can (or can afford) at the end of the season to tidy things up. We did invest in a new motor (Honda 5) which has a charging coil - fits neatly under the cockpit, but a bit of a struggle. We're trying to do as much as we can without the motor. There are a lot of very experienced sailors round here which makes us a bit self-conscious, we would like to impress by sailing in and out without resorting to the engine; not quite managed that yet!
I'm unsure about the out-haul arrangement. I have tied the sail back to the end of the boom which seems to work well, but not easy to adjust - any ideas of a better arrangement would be welcome.
Apart from that we seem to be finding our way through things OK, luckily it's a forgiving boat! We're hoping to get some time off next month and go away for a few days, maybe around Arran. This is a beautiful part of the world to sail, see Dan & Co's photos. Also inside the Clyde North of the Mull the waters are pretty safe. Will post some photos, only fair as we've spent so much time looking at other peoples...
jendave1 8 years ago
Another thing I forgot to mention. Have been thinking about losing the kicker when the sil is rolled on the boom. I have seen the 'claw' attachments, but have the germ of an idea; I'm thinking of a bit of webbing that would roll up with the sail, it would need some kind of adjustable fixing to attach the kicker. Still thinking about it, but so far it seems practical to me. Any comments?
blueachilles 8 years ago
Blue's outhaul is a smallish double block at the end of the boom, and a single block on the clew. A line goes from the clew, out to the end of the boom, back round the clew block, back to the end of the boom, and then forward along the boom to a cleat fixed to the boom near the gooseneck.

I've no idea why, as we never, ever, adjust it. Might as well just tie it on as you have done.

Don't worry about using the engine; We always do to to get onto the mooring, and although we occasionally sail off, we do usually motor off as well. The trouble is, Goskar is moored a bit close to Blue........
jendave1 Posted 8 years ago. Edited by jendave1 (member) 8 years ago
Just a quick update about our sailing career. Not so entertaining now as we're making fewer mistakes (famous last words).
We did a circumnavigation of Sanda, which took us into tidal streams for the first time, went well with some careful thought about the tides.
We had a few days trip going round Arran, stopping at Lochranza (anchor dragged in the mud) and Whiting bay (highly recommended).
We find anchoring suits us best, as we can be away from the crowds as it were, and find nice little lonely niches. Have done it a number of times now so I'm happy that I know if the anchor's set OK. We find it best to settle reasonably early to leave time for inflating the tender, getting the dog ashore and eating before it gets dark. We even use an anchor ball and motoring cone ("regulation 25 is widely ignored, but it IS a regulation" as the RYA say).
On the way back from Arran around Pladda, wind died in a choppy sea so we had a decent run of the motor to charge the battery whilst cutting through the waves...
Next we took a few days to run up Loch Fyne, meeting some friends at Otter Ferry for a meal in the restaurant there - very nice meal and free moorings with a landing pontoon (watch out for Otter Spit which goes out a long way and can't be seen at high tide). That was a soggy trip, only a few dry spells when the sun came out. We got up to Strachur for our final anchorage before heading South again.
Our next plan is a trip to Ballycastle, when we can get the time and the tides; some proper tidal streams and a crossing of the North Channel, careful planning again required.
All in all we're really getting the most out of our A24. Sailing is a pleasure, and staying on the boat is about halfway between a tent and a caravan. Particularly enjoyable when it stops raining, but that's what you get living in the West of Scotland - at least when the rain's on the midges aren't biting!
jendave1 8 years ago
Firstly, good to see Norman up and about again, hope your recovery goes well and your fit and well in time for next season.
Our boat is due to come out tomorrow, we have all sorts of ideas and plans but what we can do will depend on available funds. The real work starts now!
We've had a great time in our first sailing season and learned loads.
We have also got a lot out of this site, there is a real camaraderie which is nice, and loads of ideas and helpful advice. All the photos are a real bonus too.
I will try and remember to take before & after pics of the work we do, and no doubt will be asking advice at some point. It would have been nice to go to the meeting, sounds like a great time was had by all. Maybe we'll be able to make it next time.
6 months of sailing and the mast is still pointing at the sky!
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