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Windows

rothwell_neil 2:43pm, 4 January 2010
As it is now a balmy -2C thoughts turn to the boat and the sailing season. Presently my windows are screwed in with self tappers into a 1" wood backer inside the cabin. I don't like this for purely athetic reasons and am going to replace with flush M5 button head bolts and inserts inside. The obvious option is the Internuts but these are blind and also expensive. I have found brass ones at £28.78 for 100 inc VAT and P&P, this is half the cost of the blind internuts. I intend to use these for fixing the windows as they have the advantage of not being blind so can use slightly longer bolts and use nut to hold curtain line captive at ends and in middle. Gone with the multi short as 6mm long and use a 6.4mm or 1/4" drill to locate.

www.theinsertcompany.com/plastic.htm
busy home [deleted] 9 years ago
Remember to allow for length wise expansion by drilling oversize holes in the windows, Goskars windows extended by about 10mm when I put her in the sun, (Black perspex)
If you are using sikaflex 295 is the uv one .rough up and prime well.(proper primer)
Goskars popped off because I did not rough up properly.
rothwell_neil 9 years ago
Ron

I have replace one window with no problem. Used tinted perspex, painted underneath with black paint and then used black silicon as seal and made sure that didn't over tighten the screws as then always can put half a turn on to catch any expansion. Used 50 screws for the window that is about 24 top and bottom at about 4" centres, drill hole slightly oversize and have had no problems at all all season. Previous windows were in like this with no leaks. Just didn't like the self tapers and wooden batten inside.

www.flickr.com/photos/14026017@N04/3486278065/
busy home [deleted] 9 years ago
Yes I should have remembered. Glad you had no problems.
I reconed trying to stop the expansion was futile , so allowing movement was ok.. I will fix Goskars via self tappers into the grp and into the inner veneer ,,just,,with oversize holes in the perspex,
Chilles windows were done just before we bought her .. it looked a top job ,re
ally well done ,but one leeked right away .. (over the new VHF)
Tightning the screws every two weeks did not help much!
Chilles in the shed so we will re do soon. (with over size holes)!
Snow goose has six newly done leeky windows I give up,!
rothwell_neil 9 years ago
Ron

The way i did it and this worked fine was to put masking tape round the outside of the window to mask the sides of the cabin. I put a good bead of silicon around the window and had a couple of locating blocks glued with hot glue gun to allow location of the window. I then put the screws in and left a nice 3mm bead of silicon between the cabin and the window. I then wiped off excess bead and where this hadn't come out put more silicon in. This left a bead over the top that went from cabin to window. This worked perfectly well and haven't leaked at all. I am tempted by the sealing strip that is sold by Hadlow Marine on page 10 of their brochure. A bit of research suggests that the backing strip may be the way forward. I have attached a picture of the side that I am replacing. It is a mess as applied by previous owner but has never leaked! So I guess as long as you get the silicon in place and stuck then no problem. I have put it on the site and you can see why i don't take picture of that side often!

212.69.200.177/Pages/2009 HMS Catalogue.pdf
busy home [deleted] 9 years ago
I recon being clear helps stop the expansion .. Goskar was fine until day of launch , pulled her out of shed and within 1/2 hr the middle of the windows were off by 1/2 in (both ends stuck well!) I did not use any screws just 295 Sika Ian and I will screw them as soon the weather permits ,,
admin
NormanKlipspringer 9 years ago
You may be interested in all the previuos discussions we have had here. Go to the Flickr index on the main www.achillesyachts.co.uk site at www.achillesyachts.co.uk/page6.html. As you will see we have several discussions on windows before.
Skykomish E29 9 years ago
Aeolus had screwed in windows but the screws had been ?filed or cut flush with the interior grp so did not penetrate the vinyl surrounding the window, the exception was along the top where I used longer screws to attach a wooden batten upon which i mounted the curtain wire for the curtains.
willscarlet2009 9 years ago
I fitted new windows to Scarlet last year which I purchased from Hadlow marine for a total of £145 ,their service was excellent , they came with the rubber strip as standard and after one year of racing with windows frequently under water not a drop penetrated, no silicone was used at all which was great, i just removed the old windows cleaned and then painted behind the windows with International white deck paint and screwed back with the original M4 20mm machine screws with captive dome head nuts which look ok, Would go out and take a picture of the windows but the boat is under 200mm of snow!
rothwell_neil Posted 9 years ago. Edited by rothwell_neil (member) 9 years ago
Sounds like I will be ordering some of that strip then! Which one was it, 25mm wide 3mm thick single side adhesive in grey?
willscarlet2009 9 years ago
Hi yes thats the one, have finally uploaded some pictures on my page if you want to check them out, they were taken a couple of weeks ago.
admin
NormanKlipspringer 9 years ago
Will - why not put your pictures into the Achilles pool so that all members will pick them up easily. To do this have a look at www.flickr.com/groups/achilles24/discuss/72157602051439658/
Good luck
pjbharrison 9 years ago
I refurbished boat last year. When replacing windows I used a 25x3mm neoprene tape. Its the stuff wetsuits are made from. It came in a roll for €1 per metre. One side is sticky with a paper cover. I applied the neoprene to the window and then screwed the windows to the boat. The neoprene is like a soft rubber and compresses easily.
The windows haven't leaked since. There's no messing about with masking tape or sticky silicone or mastics. I removed the windows to apply the liners on the inside and replaced the windows again with no difficulty and it's still waterproof.
I contacted Marine Supplies in Howth today. They are out of stock but have it on order if anyone wants me to post some on. I'll try to find an offcut to photo and post on the site.
rothwell_neil 9 years ago
Sounds like a plan to me. I can find a 25M roll for £25 inc postage and packing, but if Marine Supplies sell it by the meter then even better. The reason why Hadlow use the grey tape is that it doesn't get as hot as the black and apparently there have been issues with the black in hot climates. The Irish Sea is not a hot climate so will go with black.
pjbharrison 9 years ago
Hi Neil
Marine supplies will ring me when they get it in stock.
I'll let you know asap.
Paul
pjbharrison 9 years ago
Hi Neil
Can you flickr mail me your address and how much tape you want as I'll be collecting it on Saturday.
rothwell_neil Posted 9 years ago. Edited by rothwell_neil (member) 9 years ago
Paul

Can you just hold on the tape for the moment as I e-mailed Scapa the manufacturers to ask if they could tell me where to get Scapa 3508 (Grey) or Scapa 3509 (black) as Hadlow claim this is the best as it is quite hard. They use Grey as gets hot down south, I will use black as not hot in the Irish Sea. Anyway after e-mailing them they said they would send me tape free of charge, waiting to see if it turns up as would hate to look a gift horse in the mouth!
pjbharrison 9 years ago
That's great luck, Neil. No problem. Marine Suppliers should have it in stock for the next few months anyway.
rothwell_neil Posted 9 years ago. Edited by rothwell_neil (member) 9 years ago
People go on about the UK and poor customer service. I contacted Scapa asking them if they had a distributor in the Manchester area as I wanted to buy a small roll. They said that rather than do that they would send me some. I held my breath but a 25M roll appeared today free of charge as they didn't even charge me for delivery. Restores your faith in the UK. Feel free to try it yourself just don't mention me!
rothwell_neil 8 years ago
Was talking to Rob at Eagle Boat Windows and his advise on seating windows is to use a 6mm bead of Arbomast BR butyl Rubber sealant just outside the screw line. Tells me that foam not ideal as holes too far apart and also that tend to over tighten screws to get compression. I have been very happy with the tape but this stuff skins but doesn't set and he says 20+ years life and used by him to fit the RNLI windows to their boats. Can get a big tube for £5. He also does a nice window and offers instructions on his web site. Anyway he does this for a full time living so thought I would pass on his advise.

www.eagleboatwindows.co.uk/hints.asp
Skykomish E29 8 years ago
I found Eagle windows very helpful when i spoke to them at the boat show a couple of years back.
craig48uk 8 years ago
Butler Mouldings simply didn't cut any windows into my cabin top, perfect, no leaks, just unpigmented GRP that lets plenty light in, same as the forehatch!
The only perspex is the blue sliding hatch.
admin
NormanKlipspringer Posted 6 years ago. Edited by NormanKlipspringer (admin) 6 years ago
I have refitted the windows on Klipspringer basically in line with recommendations above. I also wanted to try something less messy than using sealer all over. I used 25mm by 3mm (Scapa 3509 (black)) sticking the sticky side to the window. I did not like the screws that were on the boat so drilled out the holes and used M4 button head (slightly flatter that pan) machined screws with nylon washers under the head, stainless washers on the inside and hex nuts and chrome nuts to kook good. I also used a small amount of silicon on the threads to ensure no leaks and made sure that the holes were through the neoprene tape. I made sure that the holes in the window were bigger that the screws to allow for some movement and did not do up the nuts very tight (Someone at Shand Higson, the makers of Scapa 3509, said to me when I rung them, that a 30% compression was all that was needed for a water tight seal.)
Window fastening
Windows after fitting:
Windows after refit
The windows have now been like this for several weeks through all the rain and some rough seas (out in winds gusting to 29knots) with no problems.
Two of the screws on each side went into the main bulkhead. In this case I used normal stainless screws instead of machined screws and screwed straight into the wood, still with nylon washer under the head and silicon on the threads.
This is a much easier, although still time consuming, system than using silicon sealer instead of the tape. It should also make it easier to remove when next they need attention.
pjbharrison 6 years ago
Nice job, Norman
Skykomish E29 6 years ago
Yes I like the 2 sections too
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