busy home [deleted] 3:57pm, 17 January 2008
Im thinking of buying a roller reefing for Goskar(jib) Whats the pros and cons re standard plastimo twin groove and furlex etc
I do fancy being able to put up a blade jib in the twin grove system or a storm jib
The idea of using a down haul is great coming up to a mooring but Im getting older and changing jibs at sea does not appeal anymore
The plastimo 608 T looks ok but I dont like the mecanno bit at the bottom(all the ones in the marina are bent or twisted..Are there any others I should consider?
admin
NormanKlipspringer Posted 11 years ago. Edited by NormanKlipspringer (admin) 11 years ago
Ron,
My roller feefing is made by Facnor. Have a look at this link:
www.facnor.com/uk/main.asp?url=http://www.facnor.com/uk/p...
There are twin groves, but I do not understand how this could be used to hoist a storm jib, unless you remove the genoa, which seems to defeat the main point.. I have been using it for about 2 years with virtually no problems once I got the height of the genoa correct. Before this I was finding that the mechanism would jam because the halyard was wrapping around the forestay. Have a look at some of my photos to get a better idea of what it looks like in situ, particularly the bottom end.
I would not be without it now.
Norman
Andrew Curry Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Andrew Curry (member) 11 years ago
I fitted a Facnor reefing gear to Amaryllis a few seasons ago. It is a quality piece of kit and very well designed. I have also fitted Plastimo gear as well to a Sadler 26 and while its ok it is not as good as Facnor. Remember when fitting the gear to add new forestay.
busy home [deleted] 11 years ago
I see Crusader are agents for Facnor !
I will ring for a quote.
Thanks ,
Mike A1 11 years ago
The previous owner fitted Sailspar reefing gear on Amare (and bought a new genoa from Crusader). This has a continuous loop of rope going around the narrow drum at the bottom, so you can pull one side of the rope to reef and the other to unreef. I find it works very well with almost no chance of jamming.

Here is a link to their website:

www.sailspar.co.uk/headsailreefing.html

I have Facnor reefing on my Silhouette and agree it is a very well made system. However, I still prefer the Sailspar.
rothwell_neil 11 years ago
I fitted a plastimo 608T to the hurley. It went together well and worked a treat. Was very happy with this, went with the single track as couldn't see the point in the twin track as you have to drop the genoa to get a storm jib up even if you get the jib hanked on, also as it uses a bolt rope not as if you can have this gathered ready to haul as you would on a fixed twin track forestay for racing. I went with a thicker reefing rope and then you can always leave a bit showing of the genoa as a storm jib without fear of it all coming back out. Thinking about it you can use sail slides in these so you could hank the storm jib on, however you would need to have the full Genoa out and I would rather have either furled it or dropped it by the time I need a storm jib!

The T in 608T is for turnbuckle as in fitting over a turnbuckle, S is for chain plate. Mine never deformed or bent, I think the ones that do so may be damage in transit and store rather than in use.

Emily has a profurl roller reefing and I am not as impressed with this as doesn't look as well made and already had it jam on me as the guides don't feed as well. This could just be set up and as I haven't had it long may just require a fettle, will certainly be putting a new thicker reefing line on.

The Facnor looks nice but dependent on price I would certainly recommend the plastimo.
busy home [deleted] 11 years ago
I ve orderd a Plastimo 608 t from Marinestore @ £338 -00 minus 15% boat show disc,, Crusader price £475!!!! Facnor was £550 odd I have twin grooves as I have two gennys and could fly both down wind instead of a spinny. Thanks for your help ..
rothwell_neil 11 years ago
Good idea for flying two down wind, perfect for the next ARC as my mate tells me this is the preferred way of sailing at night as you can bear off and by gybing one genny halve the sail area when running at night and always then roll up both together.
busy home [deleted] 11 years ago
Forgive me but ARC? Which one is that?
Isnt T for twin grove and s for single?
Ive ordered chain plate mount by mistake ,I rang the shop and they said dont worry as it easy to alter. I mstill not sure what the difference is, It was despatched yesterday so I will soon find out!
I see that Lulworth is comming to Falmouth on Aug 8th ( gaff J class)
That must be something else 100 ft gaffer!
Is every one still getting over Christmas? Its to dam quiet on here !
rothwell_neil 11 years ago
The ARC is the cruise in company across the Atlantic to Barbados. www.worldcruising.com/

Sorry but you are right the T is for the twin track fitting and then it comes with either the long plates for fitting over the top of a forestay that is tensioned with a turnbuckle at the deck or other fitting if the forestay attaches direct to the deck plate by chain plate as this is closer to the deck. As most people don't have fixed length forestay or chainplate (difficult to tension) most end up with the long plates that go either side of the turnbuckle.

Installation is easy but only after you read the instructions 12 times! The key to this is to use the genny or spinnaker halyard to the deck or pullpit to take the strain when you take off the forestay. I followed the instructions and measured the length the way they told me to and then abandoned this method as it didn't give me the maximum luff length when I came to the last section, may have just been me.

The way i did it was to undo the forestay , put the top swivel on, attach halyard and pull up a bit, then start to feed the first tube and then to clip on the liner and slid it up the inside of the tube. Clip it on to forestay and slide up into tube. Next tube, screw together, then haul up a bit more, then liner, haul up a bit more, then tube liner etc until on to last tube section. Then haul all the way to the top without the last tube installed, then assemble the drum and test fit the plates. the secret is that you will need to be able to tighten the turnbuckle prior to then attaching the plates to the deck fitting. I could never get this done so always took off the plates from the drum to tighten turnbuckle, then re-installed plates to drum, (2 each side 6-8mm nuts). The final tube can then be measured with the forestay attached to the deck and the whole assembly pulled to top of the forestay. Don't forget to allow for the fact that the tube sits about 1" into the drum. Cut last tube (you will have a chance to get this wrong as the last tube will be very short and this means you can always use the other end! It is difficult to get the last liner in but just requires a bit of patience. Manual can be downloaded from here.

www.plastimo.com/pdf/T-Series(english).pdf

Not too bad so long as it is warm!
rothwell_neil 11 years ago
Having just looked at the manual you should find it easier as the twin track doesn't seem to have the liner that the single track had and that was the real pain!
busy home [deleted] 11 years ago
Thanks for all that ,Looks like I will have to lengthen the mecanno bit
but thats o k as I dont like the look of it anyway! SS bar will look better
Did you renew the forestay? Goskar has good 5 mm rig all round (heavy though) and twin back stays. Andrew seems to think I should renew ..
Skykomish E29 11 years ago
whats this Neil? are you planning on entering the ARC next year? isn't there a minimum length our boats being just under? I believe that is why they brought in the Jester Challenge, to allow Little boats like the Achilles and so forth to attempt the big pond.
rothwell_neil 11 years ago
The recommendation is always to renew. Having said that I am a materials and corrosion engineer and this is 316 stainless steel we are talking about. We hardly put any stress on the forestay, it is totally over sized for the job in hand and with stainless if there was any external corrosion it would be obvious and if there was internal corrosion between the strands it would also be obvious as removal of the passive layer and corrosion under these conditions would end up leaving some red rust stains.

I would give it a good once over, if the surface isn't the usual smooth surface but is dull and crystalline then scrap. This is unlikely to be the case. The only other thing I would look at would be the fittings at each end. Again if the crimps show no signs of corrosion and no cracks or damage then they should be OK. Any mechanical damage is likely to be at the ends and look at the junction of the crimp to wire to make sure that the wire isn't cracked or damaged. Any damage tends to lead to strands coming loose so should be obvious.

I reckon the advise is because once you put the roller on you tend to loose site fo the stay for ever! That or litigation to cover their arses.

Did I change mine, no. As to the ARC do fancy it but have set myself a 32ft Contessa as the challenge as whilst others may be fine in a 24ft fancy the extra bit myself!
busy home [deleted] 11 years ago
Plastimo 608 t arrived today Three weeks late but Marinestore sold out and had to wait for more from France. OK to deal with..
Tocviria 11 years ago
What about Rotostay? I have mine and it is very good? They keep spares a plenty eeven on old models
Antonio
busy home [deleted] 11 years ago
Plastimo seem to be the most popular around here and cheaper by
far £300 .So I Thats what I bought! It appears to be farly well made
We will see this summer!
busy home [deleted] 11 years ago
The luff groves in the twin grove are 4mm each! single 7mm.
My gennys are 5mm bolt ropes so would need changing!
About £70 each by crusader , so I ve ordered a new furling genoa
140% with a red UV strip from them £375...Standard spec,
Luckily Chilles main is OK I will change the number so as not to confuse Blue!
Skykomish E29 11 years ago
Your matress must be getting a bit thin Ron ...........all those Fivers that are coming out of it for Goskar... still will look really nice. not seen you on here for a bit. All OK?
busy home [deleted] 11 years ago
Yes fine. bit short on sleep inmate poorly.
Still within budget .Deciding on wether to build a trailer now . About £1000 ,, It costs about £200 to hire one and lift in and ive only one beach berth. And we are an outboard short .(rather Ian is) I fancy a 4 hp .the Johnson is a bit heavy . He could have that and by me a 4 .!That would do for the tender as well. ,,,,,,,,,,,,, ###ramble ramble...
Skykomish E29 Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Skykomish E29 (member) 11 years ago
mmmm that is cheap if it includes Galvanising. I contemplated briefly (in a moment of madness) selling mine, but quickly saw sense, it is a godsend if I decide to get her lifted out or even if times get hard and I need to bring the boat home for a bit.
My floorboards were looking really nice but the middle one seems to have warped, I think it has something to do with bonding the two panels, I thought that if the grain was set 90 degrees between the two panels it would add strength but one seems to be pulling the other so the ends curve upwards (if that makes sense). I have got it clamped up in my workmate hopefully to straighten it out if not will try bonding another panel to the underside to counter the pull of the top one.
God now who is rambling!
busy home [deleted] 11 years ago
no not galvanised . and i would design and make it .
Ians lovely floorboards warped as well this winter so your not alone.
Skykomish E29 11 years ago
Hey that makes me feel better if a professional like Ian has a problem then it 's not down to my shoddy carpentry...hahaha!
I have actually taken them to the boat and trial fitted, a bit more planing needed but they aren't too bad.
busy home [deleted] 11 years ago
Ive got some resin bonded stuff (marine ply) weighs a ton .I ve not seen it before but Ian uses it , Its like plastic wood !
neptunesnephew 9 years ago
Sorry to reopen a topic last discussed 21 months ago, but I am in the market for a new headsail roller furling system for OUTLAW.

The Plastimo version seems to be by far the cheapest however, is everyone who has one still happy with its performance 2 seasons on?

Your comments would be much appreciated.
admin
NormanKlipspringer 9 years ago
Still very happy with my Facnor system. Only problem I have had has been largly of my own making. When letting out the genoa if there is a bit of a blow it is all too easy to let the furling system run free. This can mean the control line flying out and coming off the drum and at worse gwetting caught in the loose coils on the drum leading to a jam. To avoid this I am careful to control the line as it unfurls and I have also fitted a bungee to the end of the control line which stops the last bit from going too slack and keeps slight tension on the line when it is unfurled.
Andrew Curry 9 years ago
Another vote for the Facnor system. If i was to buy again i would get the racing version with the split drum which allows you to easy take the drum off and use the foil to hoist separate headsails. The down side to roller reefing is when its windy a rolled sail will not allow the boat to point as high.
rothwell_neil 9 years ago
I think the Facnor looks really nice and a nice bit of engineering kit, having said that the Plastimo worked well on the old boat. Emily has a no name system that looks like it might be a forerunner to the plastimo or some other system. The point is that it must be 15 years old at least and so long as you keep the bearings greased works well.
busy home [deleted] 9 years ago
I bought the plastimo for Goskar new, but put snowgooses Banmar system on as it seems much better built,, at £900 so it should be...
Last year Goskars was faultless and I m delighted with it Two or three times the wind caught me out and unfurled more than I wanted but no probs to the gear at all ,,,,I think you gets what you pays for here and looking at the damaged Plastimo systems in the yard (all of them) I would beef up the mecanno attachment point before launching,
Snow Goose will have the Plastimo but with solid attachment to deck fitting,
rothwell_neil 9 years ago
From personal experience the bent mechanno comes from rigging and derigging as the whole weight of the tube rest on this when you are trying to get the forestay tensioned. Any sideways effort and it all bends, doesn't seem to have any effect on performance just an eyesore.
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