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I don't think you can go wrong with either, though once you've chosen, you're kind of stuck.
Posted 81 months ago.
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I've been researching the very same thing quadrapop and found this article very interesting.
www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d70flash.htm#vsCanon
There are other articles on this site on lenses which are very interesting too and I discovered that all auto focus lenses will work on a DSLR it's just the shorter focal length lenses that won't work on 35mm.
When I'm ready to make the change I'll go for the Nikon as I'll be able to use my existing Nikon lenses
Posted 81 months ago.
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I think you'll be happy with either as well, although I'm a Canon shooter (though I own gear from both) and I feel it necessary to point out:
@sjbmuse: that comparison you have linked is incredibly biased and one-sided. I could write a similarly one-sided review for the opposite direction. Sure the flash sync isn't as fast, but for most people that's not a real-life issue. How often do most people shoot something moving in really low light that can't be captured at 1/200 or 1/250? I know it's never been an issue for me. To be honest, I'm from the camp that believes if you have to resort to flash you've lost already--I try to shoot fast lenses with natural light whenever possible.
Also, at similar price points the Rebel XT blows the D70s away on a number of other areas of performance. The higher resolution and more importantly, more sensitive and accurate sensor on the XT being the first, biggest and most obvious of those.
Of course, both cameras have their pros and cons, but that link is pure Nikon cult garbage, to be honest.
@quadrapop: keep your eyes open when dealing with anything nikon vs. canon--people have a cult-like obsession with both companies and it makes for some really misleading reviews . . .
As for my opinion (someone who has owned both a D70 and a digital rebel, and is now trying to convince his wife to let him buy a $3000 5D)--I'd taken the XT over the D70 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. =)
Posted 81 months ago.
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I'm heavily biased toward Canon, having used that brand for nearly 20 years. Here's what I would recommend to meet your needs.
Canon 20D- Body only
Tokina 12-24mm f/4
Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8
Canon 100mm f/2.8 macro or Tamron 90mm macro
Canon 50mm f/1.8
The 20D is excellent for those "ambient light" shots you mentioned. I own the Tamron zoom lens and found it to be an excellent value for the money. The 50mm is a no-brainer, considering quality and cost. The others I have researched thoroughly and plan to eventually add to my kit.
Just my two cents. I'm sure there will be other opinions.
Posted 81 months ago.
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Yes, Ken Rockwell is biased, and sometimes he's a total idiot. However reason #1 was not about flash sync, it was about startup lag which was/is a big complaint about the 10D/300D (though I believe is fixed in the 20D and 350D). That was a serious failing. Ken Rockwell admits he's a biased Nikon guy. He also gave an excellent review of the Canon 20D in the same article.
Flash sync speed is a step backward in the 5D and when Canon finally adopts Nikon's electronic curtain system and creative lighting system, we'll hear every Canon user saying how great they are.. Just like how Nikon users have finally said great things about VR and SWM, where before they derided them as bells and whistles. (How is a Nikon user saying "who needs Image Stabilization when you should be using a tripod" any different from a Canon user who claims "when you resort to flash you have lost already"?) Umm fill flash? catch lights? documentary work? macro photography? lightbox?
More resolution? You realize that 8 megapixel is a 15% greater realized image resolution right? That's laughable. My 10" print @ 300dpi can be blown up to a whopping 11.5" print!
My opinion is that either body is good and you should probably go to the store and try them all out in your price range. For instance while the D50/D70 and Digital Rebel look the same on paper, they feel very different. One of those will definitely speak to you more. The same goes for the *ist Ds and the Dynax 5D.
Nikon (Fuji/Kodak), Canon, Minolta (Sony), and Pentax (Samsung) all have pretty complete lens systems at this point. Once you get one body, you will be locked into its lens system, because that is what you will be spending your money on.
FWIW, I'm a Nikon D70 guy and I can defend my purchase any day because I seriously considered the 300D and potentially waiting for the 20D before making my choice. And though I chose a Nikon, you won't see me dismissing a photographer who is an order of magnitude better than me of "pure Nikon cult garbage" nor will I ever go around saying I'd take a D70 over an XT "any day of the week and twice on Sunday."
If I were to have gotten one today instead of a year and a half ago, it'd probably be a Minolta Dynax 5D.
Take care,
terry
Posted 81 months ago.
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thanks for your replies people, keep them coming, it's early days yet and I'm still looking at what people say.
I agree that I will need to actually hold the various cameras before making any real decisions.
Posted 80 months ago.
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Following up with Liza11, I've got that Tamron 28-75 f2.8 lens, and it's fantastic. I use it with a film Canon Elan IIe, and it's super-sharp and really bright in the viewfinder.
Posted 80 months ago.
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Glad to hear you like it!
Posted 80 months ago.
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i'm no professional but i bought the canon 350d recently and i love it. you can go to dpreview.com and find in depth reviews on several cameras. the author is not biased as far as i can tell. after reading a lot of reviews i got the impression that it pretty much boils down to personal preference. they also have a discussion board on the conclusion page of the camera review where you can ask other people who have bought the camera how they feel about it.
Posted 80 months ago.
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oh yeah, if i had it to do all over again i wouldn't have bought the kit lens. i bought the 50mm 1.8f lens also and it's all i use. but, i mostly shoot portraits.
Posted 80 months ago.
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If you shoot portraits, consider the 85mm/1.8. It's an outstanding lens for portraiture (and basketball!).
Posted 80 months ago.
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thank you liza.
Posted 80 months ago.
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@tychay: I'm not going to devote any more time to this sillyness, but let me point out some of the denser bits of your complaint about my comment:
1. My comments about the flash sync speed not being that much of an issue for a new photographer are 100% accurate, IMO. How often does a hobby photographer need flash sync faster than 1/200 . . . just about never, thanks for playing.
2. You bitched about my higher resolution comment, but you didn't read the rest of the sentence apparently, which read:
"and more importantly, more sensitive and accurate sensor"
I've shot both and I stand by this. The XT's sensor is flat better than the D70's--period. If you really need proof of this, try shooting the same scene with both at higher ISOs and see what happens.
3. I own an F4 and previously had a D70, so I'm not some crazy Nikon basher, just somebody giving an honest opinion about the low end of the c vs. n digital lines. I love my boss's D2X, btw.
4. I said the same damn thing, that they're both good cameras with pros and cons--I was just complaining about that bs link.
You, on the other hand, come off a bit like one of those zealots I was talking about when you post comments like that . . .
:P
Edit: P.S. Ignore my comments in this thread. Since writing them I have realized that Terry is a genius and I now bow to his photographic omniscience. Yawn. BTW, nice blog, Terry.
Originally posted 80 months ago.
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evilgreg3000 edited this topic 80 months ago.
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1. Your words were: “I'm from the camp that believes if you have to resort to flash you've lost already.” And the answer is the second part of your question is “Me, when I do outdoor fill flash"
2. No, I chose to ignore the rest of your sentence because it makes you look worse: the D50 beats out both the D70 and the Digital Rebel in low-noise sensitivity. I don’t know how accuracy is defined, but there is acuity which solely a function of the Nyquist limit of the sensors (e.g. identical to "resolution" at the same sensor size). The difference in all these cases is negligible, IMO because the linear resolution goes as the square root of the pixel count and the sensitivity is affected most by the type of AA filter they put in front of the sensor. Obviously not for you so I guess you’ll be purchasing a D50 and pocketing the $100-$200 difference.
3. Actually, the biggest anti-Mac zealots I know are former Mac users who switched to PC. I was assuming something similar here: You are a former Nikon user who switched to Canon.
4. True. I took offense to how you did that and then bashed the D70 in the same article. I'm sorry I got all touchy on this forum, it wasn't the appropriate place to bash you. (And yet I continue to do it. Shame on me!)
I guess if bashing Nikon users for talking down Canon’s Image Stabilization and Ultra Sonic Motors just before they adopted them in the form of "VR" and "SWM" makes me a pro-Nikon anti-Canon zealot, then so be it. I didn’t know I was the one here saying I'd take the D70 over the Rebel "any day of the week and twice on Sunday."
P.S. if you want people to ignore your comments, you should just edit the post and delete them.
Originally posted 80 months ago.
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tychay edited this topic 80 months ago.
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Differences in opinion are fine, but lets not resort to bashing someone because of that opinion. If you want to bash, do it somewhere else.
Posted 80 months ago.
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Little late to this argument but instead of spending the extra money on a name, Canon or Nikon, I went with a Pentax *istDL. Came with two nice Sigma lenses for under 800 bucks, you have to do a little shopping to find that price. Plus it is compatible with all of my other Tamron lenses from my Pentax 35mm. I looked and compared and I love this camera!
Posted 80 months ago.
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20D user here, the extra megapixels do make a noticable difference in resolution compared to the D70 and Rebel's. Like computers is often worth it to spend a little more and get the more powerful product. Love the instant on of the D20, easy controls, fast write speed to memory card. Rebel XT is like a slightly dummy downed D20, smaller lighter body.
Posted 80 months ago.
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i was wondering, if just to learn and broaden my range, whether it would be a good idea to get a slightly used canon Rebel(300d) because it costs(with lens+memory card) about a third of what the 20d is going for and cash is tight
Posted 80 months ago.
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The 300d is a perfectly good camera.
with a good lens, it can take exceptional photos.
Posted 80 months ago.
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What about the d200? I'm regretting my d70 purchase cause the d200 comes out in december and it's a much sweeter deal.
As far as Nikon DSLR vs Cannon DSLR - I'd say what tychay said, a camera is something you have to try and if it has the magic, then you are chosen to ues that. I loved the Nikon camera I first used and finally got my own - So the advice is go to a shop and ask to try it - bring along a memory card so you can take a few photos as well
Posted 80 months ago.
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Last July I found myself in the same boat, wondering whether to buy a Nikon D70s or the Canon EOS. So I bought both of them, the Canon from Circuit City and the Nikon online and put them through a one week test. Some differences I noted are:
1. The Canon in-camera processing produced a much warmer hued photo than the Nikon.
2. The Nikon shots seem to be consistently under-exposed by roughly one-third (1/3). This is not always a problem, as I used iPhoto to adjust the exposure levels manually and in doing so managed to find sharper details in the picture.
3. The kit lens packaged with the Canon was decidedly inferior to the Nikon kit lens.
4. The Canon body was lighter and smaller than the Nikon. I am a woman with smallish hands, but the Canon felt a little too small in my hands and the Nikon a little too big. Can't win!
At the end of a week, I decided to keep the Nikon, primarily because of the superior kit lens. When I calculated the cost of the Canon body with a better lens, the prices evened out.
Am I happy with my choice? Sort of. I feel I have gotten some very good pictures with the Nikon. The learning curve - going from a digital point and shoot to a DSLR - is fairly steep and I am still reading, experimenting and learning.
Good luck in making your decision.
Originally posted 80 months ago.
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Perdita edited this topic 80 months ago.
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I wouldn't buy a DSLR based on the kit lens. Lenses can be replaced. When I purchased the 20D, I didn't bother to purchase the kit lens, as I already had quality lenses for my film SLR. Look at the features offered by the camera in terms of such things as high ISO performance, dynamic range, speed, control layout, and build quality.
Posted 80 months ago.
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This has kind of been mentioned, but I'll just reinforce it. When selecting a camera it is incredibly important to go to a store and start shooting photos. After reading all of the reviews, I was convinced the D70 was the camera for me. But after spending 2 hours harassing my local camera salesman, I couldn't get used to the positions of the controls and menus. Some cameras just fit you better. My hands couldn't get comfortable on the D70, and the menu which everyone seemed to rave about wasn't as intuitive to me as the D20. Go to a store and start snapping photos, you'll quickly get an idea which camera suits you best.
Posted 80 months ago.
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IMO, people invest emotion in debating the differences between Nikon and Canon to the degree that these differences are negligible. If the differences really were substantial, then there would be less to debate, and even less to get emotional about.
Having said that, actually picking one of these cameras up and holding it in your hand makes the difference palpable and, to many people, more convincing than comparing spec sheets. People often choose one camera over the other because it "feels" better. That's impossible to quantify. But then they try to rationalize their emotional and aesthetic decisions, which brings me back to the circularity of comparing specs.
Posted 80 months ago.
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quadrapop -
I reread my post and realize I left out the most important information I gained from my Canon Rebel XT and Nikon D70s camera trials. Neither camera seemed superior to the other. Both were full-featured and both captured excellent shots. Either one should make you very happy.
As Liza11 points out - buying a camera solely for the kit lens would be a mistake. My decision was also influenced by the fact that I was leaving at the end of the week for a month long vacation on a tiny island off the coast of Maine. I knew I would want to photograph the beautiful scenery and that I would not have access to a camera store until I returned. I needed to chose between the two right away and the fact that the Nikon kit lens was better helped me make up my mind.
I found that the only way to make a decision was to actually use each camera and I am grateful to Circuit City for its liberal return policy.
Best wishes
Originally posted 80 months ago.
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Perdita edited this topic 80 months ago.
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Santa ended up bringing me a Canon EOS 350D Digital with the 18-55mm and 75-300mm lenses. I'm saving up for a macro lens, but these two lenses are giving me lots to play with in the mean time.
Thank you heaps to all those who answered my query - your opinions and experiences helped me a lot in choosing what to buy.
Posted 78 months ago.
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it is fine not to decide the cam you want looking at the kit lenses, but look at this point:
- if the kit lenses are basic (case canon rebelXT-350d), i 'll be wanting to buy better lenses, and once i have better lenses, i wont use the kit lenses anymore, though i would have paid for them (wasted money?)
- if the kit lenses are better (case nikon d70), i ll have good lenses from the begining, so i wont need to upgrade lenses shortly, unless i want a macro or whatsoever
Posted 72 months ago.
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Keep in mind that you're buying a system, not just a camera and a kit lens. IMO, Canon has a better lens line up. It's also true that Canons perform better in low light at high ISO's. Nikons are notoriously noisy.
And as is stated above, you don't have to buy the kits lens. DSLR's are sold body-only. That's really the best route to go if you're truly serious about investing in a system.
Posted 72 months ago.
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That's right, the prob is choosing the lenses i want to buy.
The only parameters I know in lenses are luminosity, milimeters and price ;)
Lense quality, construction, stabilization and so on should be also taken into account, but I get lost among these parameters. Any help or reference on this is welcome!!
(I think i need a versatile 18-70 or so , luminous and good quality, below 500€)
Posted 72 months ago.
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Lens quality is the first thing that should be taken into account. There are quality lenses in all price ranges. You just have to find out which ones they are. For a wide zoom, there isn't much in your price range. One of the best midrange zooms you can get for under $400 is the Tamron 28-75. It's sharp and has a constant maximum aperture of f/2.8 throughout the focal length. Sigma has a 24-70 zoom that's a bit more expensive but still in the ball park. I've also read great reviews on the Sigma 17-70 and Sigma 18-50 lenses lately. You might consider the used market as well. There are many good lenses to be had on www.keh.com and the Buy and Sell board on www.fredmiranda.com. If you're going to purchase a new lens, make sure you buy from a reputable dealer like B&H, Sigma4less, Adorama, Amazon, or BuyDig. Should you have a question about an online vendor, check out their rating at www.resellerratings.com. Lens reviews can be found at www.fredmiranda.com. Good luck in your search.
Posted 72 months ago.
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Berin Loritsch [deleted] says:
If you are comparing the third party lenses, they have mounts for any type of camera out there. So those can't be your determining factor. Always look at the system lenses to see if there is anything special that might sway you one way or the other. Me personally, I love the Canon line of lenses--even though the Nikkor lenses have compliments to many of the Canon line. I like the USM drive of Canon lenses, making for fast and quiet focusing action. I'm still shooting film, but something I have noticed from the two SLRs I own is that the AF sensor makes all the difference in the world. My used pro 1N is much more accurate than the new consumer Rebel K2 resulting in images that are an order of magnitude more sharp with the same glass.
I picked Canon for two reasons. First, when I go digital, I will go for a full frame DSLR and there is more choice with Canon. Second, I tend to favor the CMOS sensors that Canon digital uses. In the mean-time I love my film cameras from the same vendor. But that is my opinion and should be taken as such.
Posted 72 months ago.
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Thanks everybody! I ll let you know my choice once the bank gives me the money ! ;)
Posted 72 months ago.
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Posted 72 months ago.
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i am falling in love w the fixed lense canon 50mm f1.4....
and though i may sound stupid, i have to ask..... as i am coming from an analog reflex, is this 50mm what i know in analog as a 75mm (considering the 1.5 digital-analog ratio, caused by the nolonger 35mm negative)?
Posted 72 months ago.
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With Canon crop cameras, it's a 1.6, actually. Just do the math.
Posted 72 months ago.
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still deciding wat to do with my money... what do you think about the tamron TAMRON SP AF 17-50/2.8 XR Di II ?
Posted 72 months ago.
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It's a good lens, according to a friend of mine who just got one to shoot weddings.
Posted 72 months ago.
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I purchased the Canon Rebel XT a few months ago, not because there was any significant feature that sold me over the D70, but rather i could get the canon for about $400 less. I have since added a Sigma 18-125mm lens to provide me with a bit more versatility in shooting range.
So far, i am very happy with the functionality of the canon as well as the sigma lens. Although i am sure that the sigma lens probably has some problems throughout the range, they have not been overwhelmingly noticable to my relatively untrained eye. No to mention, you can get it for under $400 (Canadian). Note, i didnt have any probs with the canon 18-55 lens, i just wanted a bit more range.
I am sure you will find enjoyment with whatever you purchase.
Posted 72 months ago.
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hi pals!
i have my 350d ! i took it cause it was lighter, smaller, and had very similar features to the d70. i took it on a trip to south italy, and its been marvellous (imagine i came from an analog-totally-manual-camera, 20 years old already) (almost crying when making 2 pics/second ;) )
i bought it w the kit lenses, cause price difference w/o the kit was less than 100, and a 256card was given with it. soon i'll save money for some of the lenses we spoke about here
thanks everybody for your help and opinions, you've been superb!
Posted 71 months ago.
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