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Norwegian Wood - did Toru Watanabe commit suicide?
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I have just finished reading Norwegian Wood and I can't decide whether it is a happy ending with Toru Watanabe finally being with Midori or a sad ending with Watanabe killing himself.
I have a strange feeling it is the latter because in the last scene of the book after Toru sent Reiko off at the train station, he made a phone call to Midori. When Midori asked him where he is calling from, he replied he didnt know. He looked around him and sees "countless shapes of people walking by to nowhere" which I interpret as ghosts.
He then called out again and again to Midori with no response from "the dead centre of this place that was no place" which sounds like the after life world. In short he was already dead although he did not realise it (like the movie The Sixth Sense). One possible theory is that he was so overcome with grief that he committed suicide by jumping in front of an oncoming train (my speculation) so that he can join his lover Naoko and best friend Kizuki.
What do others think?
Originally posted at 7:20AM, 8 May 2006 PDT
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eyecatcher edited this topic 74 months ago.
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well.... I thought he and Midori were together since i first read the book~... but~ interesting point~~~
Actually I dun care about Murakami's story, his story does not have a really clear line and plot. It is just the atmosphere he made in which I sank.
Posted 74 months ago.
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midnightexpress [deleted] says:
I don't think Watanabe 'died' but he could be more dead than dead.
He was continuedly tormented by grief and regret for not being there when he thought he should for Reiko. Maybe that's why he can never quite forgive himself and is no better off from being dead...
Posted 74 months ago.
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Hmm... Toru is not in love with Reiko or is he?
If he is not, I don't see why he is so tormented for not being with Reiko. Maybe sad to see her go but the emotion is not strong enough to be "more dead than dead". I don't think there is anything for Toru to forgive as he has not done anything wrong to Reiko (like promised to be with her and then leaving her for example) and it's not his responsibility to be with her.
I thought he was longing for Midori and hence the angst phone call. The questions remain on why Toru was lost and Midori could nor hear his calling out to her and what "place that was no place" means.
I guess with Murakami, one never really know what he is writing about.
Originally posted 74 months ago.
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eyecatcher edited this topic 74 months ago.
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midnightexpress [deleted] says:
questions, questions, questions... only Mister Murakami can enlighten us all ;)
Posted 74 months ago.
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I asked the same questions in a Murakami's forum and got this reply from Jay Rubin (translator of Norwegian Wood).
His response was:
"Hmmm, Simon's view makes sense--and is certainly consistent with the presence of "death" in Murakami's "other world" (as in DANCE DANCE DANCE), but to conclude that he is a ghost (a ghost who can write)--and has been a ghost for eighteen years--seems to me to throw out too many of the ground rules of reality that the novel itself has established since its opening lines. I don't think Murakami is deliberately jerking his readers around the way some of those movie examples (which do not involve written--published--pages) do.
If you look at my HARUKI MURAKAMI AND THE MUSIC OF WORDS, though, on pp. 158-59, I emphasize the presence of death at the end of the book. The "four" occasions of lovemaking with Reiko seem deliberately to evoke the traditional Japanese association between "four" (shi) and "death" (shi): "By sleeping (four times) with Reiko, a sexually functional surrogate for the sexually dysfunctional Naoko, he implicitly chooses death and negativity (Naoko) over life (Midori); Toru will live with his memories of Naoko rather than give himself over to the vitality of Midori."
As translator, I chose to encourage this interpretation by using the expression "dead center" in the last line. The Japanese word for "center" is strongly emphasized but English "dead center" may have been--dare I say?--overkill."
The link can be found here
www.network54.com/Forum/15537/message/1147270319/Rubin,+p...
Originally posted 74 months ago.
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eyecatcher edited this topic 74 months ago.
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midnightexpress [deleted] says:
Very insightful, thanks eyecatcher!
Posted 74 months ago.
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Interesting point. But then, how could he have died when the book kicks off with a 37-year-old Toru on a plane to Germany, reminiscing his college days of love and love lost? ...
Posted 70 months ago.
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I agree that Murakami's book's only about the atmosphere&feeling you get after reading, let's just forget the plots, the stories...
Posted 70 months ago.
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@Ms Havisham, remember the movie The Sixth Sense. The Bruce Willis character was dead but he didnt know it until the end. It is possible that Murakami could have used the same technique of a dead person having flashback.
Originally posted 68 months ago.
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flickreye (a group admin) edited this topic 68 months ago.
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I generally agree with the original eyecatcher's view (about Watanabe committing suicide at the end). However, I think that the point isn't whether he committed an actual suicide (something that makes the story-line a little bizarre, it's true) or not . Even if he didn't, the point is that he didn't manage not to choose Naoko over Midori, even though his mind was telling him to do so, and even though Naoko was dead. So, he committed (at least) metaphorical suicide.
The amazing thing about Murakami's writing (among many other things, of course) is that this fact was released in just the final phrases of the book, at a point when the reader was ready to conclude that Watanabe made the almost obvious (due to the circumstances - Naoko's death) choice! Excellent ending!!
Posted 59 months ago.
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toru commiting suicide somehow doesn't sound so convicing....i think he continued to live on learning from two tragic deaths....he woudn't let down reiko who came all over just to tell him to continue living happily...it would defeat her purpose...i think its a very hopeful and beautiful end or may be i'm being too optimistic :-)
Posted 45 months ago.
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sam.tippett [deleted] says:
Let's not forget that the book begins with the protagonist sitting on a plane thinking back to his teenage years. It all starts with him hearing a song and goes into the story. Doesn't really fit in with being dead.
Posted 43 months ago.
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i think we should just take it as he said it. After all he means it when he says rain of fish or talking monkey. He's probably alive.
Posted 43 months ago.
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S ▲ M [deleted] says:
I thought that he's on an plane at the begining? and he's looking back at memories.
That'd make him alive right?
Posted 41 months ago.
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jchakkapark [deleted] says:
Like previous people have posted, Toru could not have committed suicide because the story we are reading was his own recollections of the past while he hears” Norwegian Wood” on a plane. I believe that like Naoko, Toru soul has died and he is left seeing the world as nothing. Everything was ok up until Reiko left because like Toru to Naoko, Reiko was what was left of Naoko. So now with Reiko gone there was no longer a link to what his “life” was (Naoko). And with his “life” gone he has died.
Originally posted 39 months ago.
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jchakkapark edited this topic 39 months ago.
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This could just be my personal opinion on this but what the heck. I remember in the beginning as he reminisced on his experiences in the university and relationships that Naoko asked him to remember her because in some way she knew that he would forget her. I'm thinking that since Naoko was suffering from mental anguish and depression that she took her own life, I think Reiko mentioned it that "we're all our own kind of crazy" so it might mean that perhaps Toru would suffer amnesia at some point?
I'm not sure, it's just a random shot in the deep well with the basis of his dim memory of Naoko. This is a woman who has impacted his life immensely, her death tremendously tormented him to the point he left society to wander on his own, causing him to drown in his own depression and regret, how could he forget her easily in the initial chapter? In the beginning he says that his memory of her was very subdued and it only began to recollect itself as he went through his experiences one step at a time.
I won't generalize it when I say this but if someone that influential touched my life in one way or the other, despite the length of time apart from them because of sudden death or whatnot, it would be virtually impossible for me to forget them. I'm thinking that Toru has been emotionally and mentally burdened by all the tragedies and inconsistencies in his life and somehow may have suffered from temporary amnesia that is medically proven to be catalyzed through emotional stress, confusion, etc.
Posted 28 months ago.
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I'm very sure he didn't commit suicide because in the novel, the story starts out with an older Watanabe thinking back on the past. I don't know if this was deliberately omitted from the movie by the director to give the ending some kind of meaning, but the ending in the movie and the book are pretty much identical, so who knows what the real meaning behind the ending actually is....
Posted 15 months ago.
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Of course Watanabe didn't die, he knew the girlfriend of his friend/classmate, Hazumi, suicided two years after she was married later in life. Within the story Watanabe mentioned that he chose to live on as long as there was someone who cared for him. At the end of the story, Watanabe meant he left everything behind and carried on to live his life without looking back at it.
Posted 9 months ago.
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I just finished reading it last night for the first time and was very confused and baffled by the way it ended. I immediately flipped to the beginning and started reading it again and in doing so, have brainstormed some ideas.
I got the idea that he had died at the end, initially, but upon rethinking that, I came to the conclusion that that couldn't be, because the story starts off years later as he's sitting on a plane returning to Germany.
Ah, yes, Germany. Isn't that where Nagasawa was headed? Nagasawa, whom Watanabe shares similar interests and character traits.
And didn't Reiko basically say that everyone is a bit crazy?
Perhaps Nagasawa and Watanabe are one and the same? If I recall correctly, the only person you actually see the two of them conversing with at the same time is Natsumi, who later kills herself. Everyone else, doesn't he briefly mention the encounters the two of them have with countless girls, without going into too much detail?
Perhaps, the scene in the train station is the other personality kicking in? Perhaps it signifies the death of Watanabe, and Nagasawa living on?
Also, the scene with Naoko in the beginning where they're looking for the well is something that doesn't really happen either. I got the impression as I read it the first time that it was a dream or something. Re-reading it, I think I was right. She asks him, "How could you have slept with me that time?" The only times he saw her after that time was in the winter, and her funeral. I think this conversation is very important, because it takes place after the book, and on some other plane of existence.
Though, he does say that he does meet Watanabe again many years later.
This is just my theory, but I'll have to finish re-reading the novel to decide.
Posted 8 months ago.
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Plrin, that is a really interesting theory about Watanabe/Nagasawa. I will have to re-read also. Also the translator's notes about the number four.
I don't think that he died in the end (due to the recollections of his later life/events), but i do think it was a bleak ending. The last line of Gatsby is "So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past." I got the impression that he would not be able to move on.
Any theories as to why Naoko's sister committed suicide? It seemed she had everything going for her. Given her unexplained death, and Naoko's sexual disfunction(?) - particularly her comment that it was "wonderful" with Watanabe but she would never want to be "violated like that again" - I wondered if both sisters had been sexually abused?
Posted 7 months ago.
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hello, i found this discussion on google. i finished reading Norwegian Wood last night and no, i don't think he committed suicide, or died (physically) because the story itself is a recollection from many years later. this in itself indicates to me he has hard a difficult time moving on from his past (and this seems to be a common theme throughout the book.) i really wanted to know what had happened with him and Midori, but as vivacious and confident as she was, how long was she going to be up with the way he treated her? sometimes that happens in love, the timing is just terrible. and i got that feeling from the ending; he was calling out to Midori for help, from a place where he could never be reached, trapped as he was by memory and sadness.
*also an interesting theory on wantanabe/nagasawa, but for me, the nagasawa character was too critical in helping wantanabe learn things about himself, and at the same time a sort of foil, for them to have been the same. ..not to mention his reaction to the letter he'd gotten about Hatsumi's suicide (from nagasawa) and his reaction to it.
Originally posted 6 months ago.
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rustoleumlove edited this topic 6 months ago.
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This thread seems pretty much dead and idle, but I'd love to rekindle the discussion regarding the issue at hand.
I finished reading the book yesterday night and was thoroughly satisfied with the experience as a whole. I believe that the ending, like a few others have pointed out, does not actually hint at physical/tangible death per se as it would not only contradict what Watanabe has said after Hatsumi died, (that he wants to 'live strongly'), but it is also too easy a way out for a writer of Murakami's calibre to end a classical masterpiece. Rather, the ending actually complements the general theme of transience, isolation and loss which seem to follow Watanabe everywhere he go. I believe that the last paragraph (the one where he supposedly called Midori) never took place at all. It was a glimpse of his imaginations and also a sign of the end of their relationship, given the Surrealstic nature of the setting around Watanabe.
He ends up scarred for life and slowly ends up like Reiko, a person with a gradually deteriorating state of mind, as paralled by the lovemaking of the two at the end which symbolizes unity and interconnectedness. My theory is that he continues to live on as a transient, more scarred than ever, living a soulless and purposedless life. He dies, spiritually.
Posted 4 months ago.
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The ending of the novel needs to be examined in the style in which it is written: a love story with a parallel archetypical theme of maturation from adolescence to adulthood. Additionally, the novel utilizes cultural concepts that are intrinsic to Japanese culture yet subtle in their employment.
Kizuki, the protagonists childhood griend, is symbolic of the character's childhood which is detached from others and care-free. His death serves as the metaphorical death of Toru's youth as well.
Naoko is the ju-ai (Japanese for first love, more specifically pure love). She is the love which is based on the innocence associated with youth. With Naoko's gradual detachment from reality and suicide is emblematic of the author's gradual transition from a love based on "being in love" to one more mature.
Reiko serves as the embodiment of the future Toru (her age of 37 is the same as his at the beginning of the novel) and the link between the youth he is gradually losing and the adulthood he must enter.
Midori: Represents ai, a mature ai that is complex in its lust, envy, passion, and freedom. Her free-spirited nature and his accepance of her without conditions is the ideal sense of love in fufilling the other without desire to change.
The cultural themes:
Two: Two in Japanese culture symbolizes the mature love or ai that exists between two people. Toru's comment to Midori about desiring 3 February's (2nd month) shows the emergence of this love associated with adulthood.
April: In Japanese culture, April is the time of the year when school years start and businesses and goverment offices rotate or hire new personnel. Muchlike Janus, it portends death and new life. His depression and alienation from Midori and others occurs at this time. It marks the gradual death of his ju-ai.
Age 20: In Japanese culture, an individual is officially an adult upon his/her 20th birthday. Naoko's breakdown after having sex with Toru on her 20th birthday is symblic in that ju-ai is and can never be a love with a physical component.
4: 4 in Japanese is read as -shi: honomous with death (-shi).
9: 9 in Japanese can be read as ku: honomous with suffering.
August: Obon, the holiday in which the dead return to visit the living occurs in August.
Tying this all together, Toru 's love with Naoko could never survive as this was a love that was restricted to the confines of adolescence. Naoko's death was the death of his ju-ai and the obon offering to Kizuki as neither could make the transition into adulthood. His period of grief or suffering occurs in September, the ninth month, and abruptly ends in October. His sexual encounter with Reiko (4 times), whose body reflects his age at the beginning of the novel and remarked as a body of a 17 year old (the same age as Kizuki and Naoko's sister at the time of their respective suicides) marks the death of all that is associated with childhood and entrance into adulthood willingly as the act of sex seperates child from adult. His confusion to being in the "dead center" of no place upon opening his eyes after Midori's response is the result of this temporal state and wilderness between childhood and adulthod suddenly disappearing. As he is thrust in adulthood, his panic is that of a newborn screaming after birth as the reality they existed in is suddenly taken away and they exist briefly in a center of a place that no longer exists. The ending is bittersweet as he gains (open to some debate, but inferred in the body of the novel) Midori but morns the loss of his ju-ai at the beginning of the novel fading in its clarity it may be.
A final note: The novel ends in 1970. Why is this important? The Beatles broke up that year. Perhaps a theme worth investigating as the break-up of the Beatles could be interpreted as the death of an era. Norweigan Wood is the metaphor for his ju-ai.
Posted 4 months ago.
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In general agreement with Old Abe's excellent write-up.
It is clear to me that Toru is alive at the ending of the book for two main reasons. The entire narration is told as a flashback, and also he would not have known Harumi had died if he was dead at the end of the book.
As for the debateable outcome with Midori, I am of the pessimistic opinion that it did not work out. There was sufficient amount of ambiguity in the ending of the book to suggest that at best Midori and Toru were disconnected.
Posted 4 months ago.
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