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As Nick Cohen wrote in the Observer today: "in the name of tolerance, the institutions of the profane are agreeing to compromise with fundamentalism, and in the process, multiculturalism is manufacturing culture'.
This is what I fear will happen with Flickr - the reactionaries will demand more and more restrictions on what should or should not be allowed, and we will eventually be left with ... well, what, exactly? I hope it doesn't happen.
Not choice, not freedom of expression, but an ersatz quasiculture denuded of anything worthwhile in the name of intolerance masquerading as tolerance.
Posted 38 months ago.
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Nudity is not only offensive in many cultures but is also unacceptable to be seen by younger individuals. << I AGREE .. Honestly i don't feel calmed when i sense that my younger siblings access flickr
Well is restriction bad? I don't think so ... what is one reason for allowing such pictures??? and what is the purpose of sharing them with others???
Posted 38 months ago.
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I agree. In addition, Flickr will loose almost half of it's members if they didn't take any action, coz some Internet providers block any type of offensive sites.
Posted 38 months ago.
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*off topic*
censoring in any form kills the free spirit and creativity !!!
cool down @ll is the best or ?
and by the way
"FREE AUSTRALIA" ;-)))
Posted 38 months ago.
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"First of all in one week many of my friends deleted there accounts in flickr and they all said the same thing the place is losing its reputation and its known for a place with nude pictures and un appropraite ones too"
Losing it's reputation? Being known for a place for nude pictures? What rubbish! I spend FAR too much time on flickr, as do a lot of other people, and I have neither seen a huge influx of such pictures, nor indeed a shift in the style of pictures to give a greater proportion to the nude/sex shots. It just isn't true. And if your friends want to delete their accounts in a fit of pique because they got something wrong, then that is tough for them, isn't it?
"Flickr will loose almost half of it's members if they didn't take any action"
That's a total shot in the dark and completely unfounded. You have no basis for the statement or your supporting reason.
" what is one reason for allowing such pictures???
Because there are just as many people on here (maybe even more) that DON'T have a problem with those sort of pictures.
and what is the purpose of sharing them with others???"
Because other people may want to see them.
You will not help your argument if you post such obviously blinkered viewpoints and appeal for other people to understand them as fact. Just because you don't understand how someone could think differently from you doesn't make it an unreasonabe viewpoint.
Posted 38 months ago.
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When I paid for my Flickr account, it was in the belief that it was a forum for freedom of expression and exploring the art of photography.
Is restriction bad? Sorry, I'm not old enough to remember the days when people were prepared to sacrifice their lives for freedom, so I couldn't rightly say, squire ;)
Posted 38 months ago.
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I didn't say that i dont understand i do undertand pritty well why people share such pictures which can never be creative nor show a good nor bad point of view or issue .. it can be reasonable for others but not for me but what i am stressing here is that
Nudity is not only offensive in many cultures but is also unacceptable to be seen by younger individuals
and
As you say some ask for more nude pictures others see that such pictures are giving a bad impression about the place and that it is losing its reputation ...
U call this FREEDOM?!??!?!?!
Posted 38 months ago.
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Where is all this filth, by the way? I've only ever seen one 'indecent' picture on Flickr when one of my contacts had their account hacked into. One photo, quickly deleted.
Of course, if I wanted to go looking for photos I consider indecent as a way of building up a good bit of self righteous indignation...
Posted 38 months ago.
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"U call this FREEDOM?!??!?!?!
Yes, that's exactly what it is. It is the freedom to express.
No-one is advocating showing minors inappropriate images. There is some ambiguity over what is considered appropriate, however. I don't think that a 13 year old seeing a nude statue, or a topless woman on a beach is going to do them any harm whatsoever. Consequently, them seeing similar images will also do them no harm.
It is mainy FULL nudity that is offensive in many cultures. A huge quantity of cultures focus their disapproval purely for the bottom half.
Posted 38 months ago.
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"As you say some ask for more nude pictures others see that such pictures are giving a bad impression about the place and that it is losing its reputation ..."
I don't understand this fully, and I would like you to explain it further, particularly how it relates to something I am supposed to have said.
Posted 38 months ago.
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how would you feel if ur young siblings see such scences ???
Posted 38 months ago.
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Posted 38 months ago.
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"As you say some ask for more nude pictures others see that such pictures are giving a bad impression about the place and that it is losing its reputation ..."
^^^^ Some are deleting there accounts because of such pictures and they leave such place with the impression that this place is for NUDE PICTURES
Posted 38 months ago.
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Such scenes as what?
If my children saw topless women on a beach (for example) from the age of two, I wouldn't care less. If they saw someone having sex, I would be upset.
Nudity isn't generally the big evil that it is in your culture, it is sexual nudity that most other cultures object to.
Posted 38 months ago.
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"they leave such place with the impression that this place is for NUDE PICTURES"
Then they are wrong. Entirely.
Posted 38 months ago.
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God forbid that anyone should find any potential for offence on the internet. Or want to take any personal responsibility for anything.
Posted 38 months ago.
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What do you know about my culture???
Nudity is not better than sexual nudity <<< can you tell me the differences in how both affect children differently
Posted 38 months ago.
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Why are they wrong?? this is what they seee
Posted 38 months ago.
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I cannot understand the reason why somebody is against nudity. Nature is Art. The human body is nature, too.
Posted 38 months ago.
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Dark Angel:
You REALLY need to calm down. I learned about how nudity is viewed in your culture in THIS thread. I was comparing it to all the other cultures that I know, and demonstrating to you (as you are clearly unaware) that nudity as an entirety is NOT held in such a regard (as in it ALL being wrong) like it has been explained is the case in a Muslim culture. No child that sees a naked/partially naked body will be damaged by it, that is ridiculous. Kids run around naked all the time. They only get bothered by it when we teach them that it is wrong, before that they couldn't actually care less, in my experience.
We have, here in England, topless photo's of women (and men) every single day in daily papers. We have (although not as widespread as in Europe) people sunbathing topless on the beaches, and entirely nude colonies that are predominately kept seperate for their own privacy, rather than through any disapproval of their lifestyle.
They are wrong (and this is a factual statement) because the majority of photo's on flickr are NOT of nudes. I just looked through 14 pages of "Erevyone's Photos" and NOT ONE picture of a full orpartial nude was there. This is something like 224 pictures. Surely you would have expected (if the 'problem' is as bad as you seem to imply) that I would have found at least one?
Posted 38 months ago.
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Maybe I should say: “I can not understand why nudity is acceptable in your culture”
The point is that there are cultural variations, how you raise your kids is your own business, and you don’t expect the guy next door to do the same as you are; (although you might come from the same backgrounds)…but still, you would respect his point of view, coz he is you neighbour (I hope you do that!).
I understand that there are nudity sculptures in western culture, and I totally respect that!
I can’t understand that western culture (judge by your comments today) can not respect my point of view, when I say nudity is not acceptable?????
Posted 38 months ago.
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what is one reason for allowing such pictures??? and what is the purpose of sharing them with others???
to me, many of these pictures are incredibly beautiful. they celebrate sensuality, pleasure and love, and thus a very important part of life itself.
I respect that you would rather not see such images, and am all in favour of an optional blocking system such as that flickr intends to implement.
but please understand that your opinion that naked bodies and nude images are bad is offensive to me. it is not you alone whose values are in danger of being disrespected.
Posted 38 months ago.
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I respect your point of view. I just don't subscribe to it, think that it is a problem here, nor do I feel that I should have to correspond with it unless I am in your country.
When I am at home, I expect people to live by my rules. When I am in someone else's house or in public, I live by their's, or by the recognised public moral system.
Does that clarify it for you? Do NOT accuse me of not respecting your culture, that is not an issue and is only an attempt to make this personal. It isn't.
Nudity IS acceptable in my culture and also in the country and legal system that this site is controlled and exists, and many of the ones that it has users in. Only it isn't acceptable to you, or people from your background. That is very different to just saying "It is unacceptable".
Posted 38 months ago.
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Brock I am calmed and as your trying to aware me am trying too .. btw i lived in London for 5 years and i know what your talking about and i remember such pictures on public telephone boxes yes they are everyware but i think that they are not acceptable to be seen by children
Posted 38 months ago.
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shining example I respect the fact that you as an adult see it as beauty but i still stress on the fact that children should not access it
Posted 38 months ago.
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no one is asking you to subscribe to it...This is not what were are trying to do here! The subject was brought up because people were concerned!
Posted 38 months ago.
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AlmaZ, firstly, I don't think anyone on this thread can claim to represent 'western culture', whatever that is - something perceived as a homogenous lump of depravity (judging by some of the comments on this thread)?
Secondly, why should anyone respect your opinion just because you think they should? I happen to think you're wrong, and until you convince me otherwise, it's my prerogative to consider your opinion with less than total, grovelling devotion.
I tolerate your opinion, and I don't hate you for it, but respect? Sorry.
Posted 38 months ago.
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Make an arab-flickr-site or no-nudity whatever-site then, where you have to give the photo to a religious-leader-admin or a catholic authority, who needs to blacken the bad pictures like this i made just a few moments ago:
photos14.flickr.com/16256506_e6651e3cc6_o.jpg
(EDIT: this better?)
The title:
My Marathon-Medal hanging on a suction pad thats pinned on a drawing of mine that shows a girl i was badly in love with a long time
(Original: Meine Marathonmedaille, haengend an einem Plastiksaugnapf, der auf einer von mir geschaffenen Zeichnung
angebracht ist, die ein Mädchen darstellt, in das ich lange Zeit unglücklich verliebt war)
And i claim, this is now ART!
Posted 38 months ago.
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no one is convinced to respect other comments if they don't want too ..
Posted 38 months ago.
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Dark Angel,
On your site you have a picture of someone being stabbed in the back. I find this offencive and something I would not want my children to see!
The problem is with banning types of photos where do we stop? If we ban nudes and pictures of people being stabbed in the back today, what do we ban tomorrow? How about animals? Starting with pigs?
Alan
Posted 38 months ago.
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what makes stabbing in the back equal to nudity???what is offensive about it
Posted 38 months ago.
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then convince me nudity is good, and i'll respect that!
Posted 38 months ago.
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WHAT????
killing somebody is no great deal compared to see a human naked?
Can't believe it!
Posted 38 months ago.
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"....what is offensive about it?"
I know we come from different cultures, I would not be happy to be stabbed in the back, nor would I be happy for my children to think stabbing people in the back was fun, a laugh or what ever. Hurting/killing is worse and much more offensive than naked bodies.
Alan
Posted 38 months ago.
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You should really go to school and learn something about ethics.
Posted 38 months ago.
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Did i say ot is fun to stab or be stabbed in the back ... ???
Dealing with backstabbers, there was one thing I learned. They're only powerful when you got your back turned. <<< this was my comment to the picture does this sound fun???
Posted 38 months ago.
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Sorry, English is my second language, and for a moment, I thought I ment something else by 'respect'
I looked it up in the dictionary, what I ment by respect is respect for (which is protection, and recognition)...and FYI: I ment the last one!
They even added an example: very little respect for human rights...I guess this is what is been going on here...very little respect for muslims rights!!!
Posted 38 months ago.
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So,
Would someone kindly explain what exactly it is that makes this photo acceptable?
Posted 38 months ago.
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niezwyciezony << Thankfully i do go to school and i do know alot about ethics :)
Posted 38 months ago.
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I don't have to convince you nudity is good AlmaZ. You clearly wish for nude photography to be prohibited or restricted. I have no wish to dictate to others on the basis of what I consider to be halal or haram. If I am offended by an image on flickr, I close it. You're the one dictating terms.
edit - Muslim rights - I really hate the idea you're being forced to be offended, AlmaZ. Why did you join Flickr and who forced you to view offensive material?
Posted 38 months ago.
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oh, did you like it?
It was in the British Museum.
No age restriction on enterance.
Posted 38 months ago.
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i think this discussion is taking us no where and all is happening is that people are insulting, misunderstanding and going way off topic!!!
Posted 38 months ago.
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Posted 38 months ago.
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o_O
Posted 38 months ago.
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No matter what you put in the comments you have a picture of a nasty blade about to be inserted in someone’s back...
The problem will always be where do you draw the line I might think your picture is advocating violence, you might not
Posted 38 months ago.
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We're still on topic - the current direction being why nude images are so offensive and why both you and Almaz have taken photos (or posted images) that are, by your own standards, potentially highly offensive?
Posted 38 months ago.
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I totally agree with dark angel. I am posting my point of view, and doesn't mean that I am viewing offensive photo.
Posted 38 months ago.
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That's great AlmaZ, now I know where the picture was taken. No, there's no restriction on age there, there's also noone making you go inside and look at stuff.
However, neither of those bits of information were answers to my question, so I'll put it again:
What makes it acceptable for you - who is offended by nudity - to publicly display a photograph of a nude statue?
Posted 38 months ago.
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no i don't :)
Posted 38 months ago.
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I don't want to repeat myself, but the statue was in British Museum.
Posted 38 months ago.
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We're still on topic - the current direction being why nude images are so offensive and why both you and Almaz have taken photos that are, by your own standards, potentially highly offensive?
^^ Was this is the discussion ???
Posted 38 months ago.
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*Channeling Jeremy Paxman*
Please answer the question, AlmaZ.
Posted 38 months ago.
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What has THAT got to do with it?
How can you, without being a total hypocrite, say that your statue picture is offensive, and nudity shouldn't be on here in any form, yet display it all the same.
"Oh, it's ok, it was in the British Museum".
What?
Posted 38 months ago.
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Ok fine .. i said what i have and thank you all :) bye
Posted 38 months ago.
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I don't want to repeat myself, but the statue was in British Museum.
So I assume it would be OK to post a photo of this on Flickr? If so, where do you draw the line? If not, why not?
Posted 38 months ago.
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there is a big difference when you see a female sex icon wearing a bikini, and this statue. Put both pictures near each other, and see which one is arousing!
Posted 38 months ago.
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So it is sexual nudity that is the problem, not nudity per se.
I do wish you people would stick to one viewpoint.
Posted 38 months ago.
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Thank you for listening and replying me ... I said what i have and heard you all :) bye
Posted 38 months ago.
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What do you think we were talking about then?
Posted 38 months ago.
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So if you don't find the statue offensive, do you think it would be OK for a child to see it?
Posted 38 months ago.
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You have to contact the British Museum regarding that...
I don't have all the answers
Posted 38 months ago.
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Quas was attempting to point out continued inconsistency in your argument, I think you'll find.
"do you think it would be OK for a child to see it?",
And we tried to establish if it was nudity, or sexually oriented nudity (heading toward porn boundaries) earlier, and at THAT point it was ALL nudity, apparently. Now you change your mind.
That does very little for the value of you continuing this debate if you are going to keep swapping about.
Posted 38 months ago.
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No he wouldn't need to contact the British Museum. They could only tell him their policy. Just as only you could tell us your opinion, if you weren't being so evasive.
Posted 38 months ago.
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Yet another case of the question being avoided via the abrogation of personal responsibility. 'Although I had the choice to avoid nude images, you didn't do enough to stop me from looking at them' or 'my hypocrisy is the fault of the British Museum'.
Posted 38 months ago.
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[Awkward silence ensues...]
Posted 38 months ago.
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I guess dark angel was the one who brought up the issue of children here.
Posted 38 months ago.
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Posted 38 months ago.
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Even if Ðâ®k_AňgëL♥ was the one who brought up children, you're still allowed to have an opinion AlmaZ.
Do you think it would be OK for a child to see it. Yes or No?
Posted 38 months ago.
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can't it be that people connecting to flickr.com from this UAE country are doing something illegal,
because places where nudity isn't explicitly forbidden (may occur) are forbidden by their country's law?
Posted 38 months ago.
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from this UAE country
^^^ And you tell me about ethics??
No were not doing something illegaL :)
Posted 38 months ago.
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Posted 38 months ago.
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www.al-bab.com/media/docs/saudi.htm
Posted 38 months ago.
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All were discussing here is "y flickr is allowing nude photos?"
Posted 38 months ago.
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I get the feeling that AlmaZ isn't going to answer my question.
From page 2:
...when you see a photo of a naked woman/or man (and I’m saying naked, not exposing the hair, or the hands, or legs, I’m saying naked!!) it triggers certain parts in the brain, that is related to memory, sex, emotions and arousal...
But not a sculpture? Or maybe it also does that, but that's OK? I honestly don't understand.
As was pointed out earlier, we seem to have many differing definitions of nudity, and not all forms offend every person. Some Muslims think any kind of nudity is bad; others think it's only the pornographic kind. (Note that e3ashig said he didn't think it was appropriate for kids to see a statue of David. AlmaZ seemed to say earlier that any photo of a completely naked person was bad; later, she said it was only the pornographic kind. And of course, the links she posted at the beginning weren't full nudity at all.)
I think we can say pretty confidently that there is not a single, universal definition of "nudity", even (especially?) in the Muslim world. The bottom line is that it will be very difficult for Flickr to block nudity if even the advocates of such measures don't agree on what should be blocked.
Posted 38 months ago.
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Thank you :)
Posted 38 months ago.
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Thank you :)
Posted 38 months ago.
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Posted 38 months ago.
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Ðâ®k_AňgëL♥ - Because their Westerners.
^^ Did i say that??
Posted 38 months ago.
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Posted 38 months ago.
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I am against it
against it
against it
against it
against it
against it
against it
Posted 38 months ago.
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Mind boggling. Would anyone care to start a group where (those of us who are) can apologise for being 'westerners'? And for forcing people of a sensitive disposition to sear their eyes with the horror of nakedness?
Posted 38 months ago.
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Dont put words in my mouth then :)
Posted 38 months ago.
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Quas - and that doesn't even start on the issues raised if it's OK to post pictures of nude statues because that's "art".
Posted 38 months ago.
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Posted 38 months ago.
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Smokeyproggg << you are ..
teotwawki ^_____________________^
Posted 38 months ago.
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Posted 38 months ago.
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@guas when you read the terms of use here, you will see that the law of the user's country is the law in power for him.
Flickr.com has any right to terminate any of any users ACCOUNT anytime without giving any reason.
So, because Islam is not only a religion, like in Western Countries today (church divorced from the law of state),
but the LAW ITSELF,
the people who live
1. in an Islamic Country with Islamic LAW (i'm really not good in arabic readings ;)
and even
2. in a Western Country with law seperated from Religion - but living the way of islam
-they have to follow their LAW, the islamic sharia and the koran, and leave this place, when they feel offended in the way they live their law.
hope you got the intention, it's difficult to find the right words with my rusty english :=)
And Children shouldn't be left alone at the Computer on such Sites if they're not so old to decide themselves.
*edit*
So, finally: Just agree with Terms of Use here or not, if no explicit violation in these has occured.
Posted 38 months ago.
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Ok who said that your not
Posted 38 months ago.
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Posted 38 months ago.
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look, the main problem is that some bad people are posting a bad pictures using the name of my country
that's all
we need to stop them
we don't care about the rest
I'm trying my best to contact the ISP in my country to block this site
we r having fun in flickr, sharing nice pictures and not missusing it
thanks everyone
Posted 38 months ago.
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Ok ... who said that your not?
Posted 38 months ago.
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Posted 38 months ago.
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Thursd@y << THANK YOu
Posted 38 months ago.
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IT MEANS A BIG GRIN
Posted 38 months ago.
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Posted 38 months ago.
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Good .. Thank you for the reminder .. :)
Posted 38 months ago.
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Ive said alot and heard alot of serious, teasing and harsh words .. i think that thats it for me today i have and exam to study for .. thank you all .. :)
bye
Posted 38 months ago.
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Ive said alot and heard alot of serious, teasing and harsh words .. i think that thats it for me today i have and exam to study for .. thank you all .. :)
bye
Posted 38 months ago.
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Dark Angel said... "such pictures which can never be creative nor show a good nor bad point of view or issue .."
I highly disagree and consider that an insult to the likes of Lightpainter and mio_slowphoto who post some of the most artful creative nudes I have ever seen. I understand that you yourself feel that way about nudity but please don't make such a broad generalization. Such pictures can be highly creative and show a good or bad point of view. Maybe not to you yourself personally, but certainly to the photographer of such photos and to those of us who aren't offended by a bit of naked flesh.
I certainly understand your reason for wanting a nudity filter and I can respect that, but I just ask that some of you remember that many of us don't consider nudity taboo such as you do.
Posted 38 months ago.
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Maybe :)
Posted 38 months ago.
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